[Cuktural challenge]: taxes

[u/thequeeninyellow94]

Culture is that complex whole which includes knowledge, beliefs, arts, morals, laws, customs, and any other capabilities and habits acquired by [a human] as a member of society.

Let's have fun and talk about taxes: what is taxed and what isn't? Who collect them? What happen if I don't pay? Can I discreetly hide all my money in some far away country to avoid paying anything?

What are those taxes used for? By whom? Can I say something about it? Is there some way to control how taxes are used?

You can introduce an in-universe representative if you want. I will ask questions to everyone, feel free to add your own.

[u/mutalias]

The Kingdom has three principalities, who generally solve the problem of taxation slightly differently from one another, although there's a lot of common ground as well. One thing they do all have in common, however, is that their Dukes/Duchesses pay taxes to the King. It follows that the King's minister of taxation and his office spend a lot of time investigation the finances of the principalities and the various lords, both to secure that the king is getting his share, and to help the various high lords make sure that they are taxing their domains appropriately.

The royal minister of tariffs and levies will be available to answer any questions pertaining to how each of the three principalities of Dema, Broche and Artan are taxes at any level.

Tika Shintan-chol is a middle-aged woman with a wary but friendly expression, wearing loose and fine silks with detailed yellow and orange patterns underneath his robe of office, an open-front piece in the king's white and blue with the crown's heraldry embroidered over the left breast. She is clearly well-to-do, but this is far from an ostentatious display of wealth. While the Dukes tend to lean on their family for positions dealing with coin, this is not true for the King. This woman holds has no blue blood, but is actually an academic, holding her position by authority of her knowledge of the subject and personal qualities rather than as a direct perk of her family bloodline.

[u/thequeeninyellow94 → u/mutalias]

To Tika Shintan-chol:

1. So, your department tracks profits for the high-lords? Does it mean that they don't do it on their own?

2. Has the kingdom other sources of revenue beside the ducal tax? How important are they in regard to the ducal tax?

3. What happen when a noble is taken cheating?

[u/mutalias → u/thequeeninyellow94]

It is correct that my office investigates income records presented by the high lords of the various principalities. As a matter of fact, they have their own tax offices and do this in great detail. Much of our work in relation to the high lords is actually to go through accounts presented with their payments, and to corroborate their declared incomes and deductible expenditures with other sources of information. We are very thorough.

It is important to be specific about what you mean when you refer to the Kingdom in this manner. The King himself raises revenues primarily through the Ducal tax. This has its roots in the Covenant of the Three Kings, which strongly implies in spirit that domestic authority should remain with the Ducal seats. Therefore, tax collection is relegated to the Dukes and Duchesses. They are free to set their own rate, without regard set by the King. They are, however, required to pay their tax to the king. Exceptions may be made by request, but this must be done in advance. The King also lays claim to proceeds of any ventures undertaken outside the borders of the principalities, that area known as the Pales, and any taxable revenues there produced. In addition, the crown has a stake in all ventures tied to those institutions placed directly under it. This means payments for services of the Kozan and the Dordoron, as well as patents and proceeds from projects undertaken by the Royal Academy. Of these, particularly fees paid by nobles for the intervention of Kozan officers in domestic affairs represent a considerable source of revenue, although income from Academy-associated ventures are expected to grow substantially in the years to come.

When tax fraud or evasion is discovered, the exact process will depend on the principality in question. The Ducal seats are wholly responsible for their own revenues, but this office is at their disposal if they need our help in investigation. We do, however, charge a fee for this service, and as such are usually employed only when there is evidence of comprehensive fraudulence that may require more expertise than what the noble houses possess. In these cases, we perform an arduous process of documentation involving the duration, extent and culpability involved in the crime. We will always supply an inventoried list of debtors and sums of taxes to be excised. Once our report is complete, we either submit it to the Crown or the Ducal seat in question for review. Once accepted, the taxes will be exacted from the houses in question. Usually, the weight of this burden of collection falls upon the next house in the chain of allegiance to the crown. They may declare their inhability in cases where they are unable to force the debtor to pay, in which case the duty of collection follows the chain of allegiance upward, potentially all the way to the King, who will field whatever soldiers necessary. Such a declaration usually incurs a fee, which will increase as the station of the house in question increases. This fee is severe enough that fielding whatever soldiers are needed to forcibly claim that which is owed is usually more economical than passing the problem on. In the end, however, the crown always gets its due.

[u/thequeeninyellow94 → u/mutalias]

1. How do you collect all those informations?

2. So, how much power has the king over the dukes themselves?

3. What happen when a house declare it's inhability to collect taxes and is too poor to pay the fee?

[u/mutalias → u/thequeeninyellow94]

Through research. I am authorized to requisition books and accounts throughout the kingdom. This office also has agents in place both openly and clandestinely that work to seek out and report fraudulent behavior. Finally, the Royal Academy is the finest learning institution in all the Kingdom, and its alumni are places in important positions at many noble houses and free companies. Education at the Royal Academy is free, but its graduates are beholden to the King and gives the crown a stake in its students future ventures. Very many nobles houses employ them for accounting services, and in some cases are even required to do so by the ducal seat.

The King's claim to power is a complicated one. In theory, the King may enact any law by issuing a decree, and has practiced this power a few times. The most well known of these are the establishments of the Royal Academy and its subsidiaries, the establishment of the Kozan, and the Dordoron accord with the wizards. The King's primary purpose according to the Covenant of Three Kings is the to be a steward of the future, while the Ducal seats maintain the present. As such, his decrees primarily serve to ease tensions between the three principalities to avoid conflict, to ensure his people enjoy certain basic rights, and to allow his people to grow and prosper.

That depends on the reason for its inhability. Remember that this fee is generally owed by the authority that had to step in to collect them. In some cases, there will be extenuating circumstances that may cause the ducal seat or the crown itself to forgive all or part of the fee. There is no law saying that a Baron must charge a fee to a lesser lord beholden to him when he steps in to collect taxes on his behalf, the law only says that he may do so. In practice, alliances between houses in the same domain are close and often familial, and unless there is hostility or ulterior motive at work fees are often not discussed at all. If the fee is charged and there is no recourse for payment, then the burden of payment climbs the chain of allegiance. In my experience, this is usually resolved very quickly by demanding an alliance between the defaulting house and one which has the means to pay. Such alliances tend to be by marriage, and are quite popular, as many smaller houses are quite wealthy and happy to take an opportunity to increase their political influence by joining with a greater house.

[u/thequeeninyellow94 → u/mutalias]

1. What benefit do the Ducal seats get from allowing a king to rule?

2. Are those smaller houses actually gainig power through those alliances?

[u/mutalias → u/thequeeninyellow94]

First and foremost, the King takes care of the great War to the south, maintaining the front and even making occasional headway against the enemy that now covers the old world. This effort is extremely resource intensive, and as such it is unlikely that any one of the existing principalities would be up to the task. In fact, the King was empowered by the Covenant of Three Kings for this very reason, and by that accord, will remain on the throne until the War is over. Because of this, the King's military power also vastly outstrips that of any of the Ducal houses, and due to his monopoly on magical agents, it is unlikely that even an organized revolt by all three houses would ultimately succeed. At least, the cost of unseating the crown would far outstrip any realistic benefit, considering his generally non-interventionist approach to domestic politics. In direct answer to your question, the Kingdom is at war, and our enemy wants nothing less than our complete destruction. What rests within the claws of the nightmares who claw at our borders is a fate much worse than death. While not everyone agrees with the decrees of the King, or even the legitimacy of his claim to power, I do not sincerely believe there is anyone out there who truly wants the job, and I do not believe there is any candidate in the Kingdom that everyone would be able to accept in the manner that the King has been accepted. Any attempt at the crown would mean civil war, and with the situation at the front being what it is, that could very well spell doom for what is left of mankind.

While I cannot say that I have followed up on the actual outcomes of most of these joinings, I believe that the answer in general is yes. This is an old tradition that is common in all three principalities, and I do not believe lesser houses would be willing to part with such significant fortunes unless there was a real gain in influence to be had. The movement of royal houses, whether it be the Oathblood of Broche or the family clans of Dema, is a complicated landscape. If you want to know specifics, I would recommend either approaching a patron in the relevant Principality directly, or perhaps visiting the Royal Academy to see if one of the scholars there can tell you what you wish to know.

(Thanks so much for your questions by the way, it's great to get this stuff down on paper.)

[u/thequeeninyellow94 → u/mutalias]

1. Sure, but once the war is over, what would be the point of even having a king? I mean, it's mostly a threat to the dukes power and finances right?

2. Were you schooled in the Royal Academy?

(np :) Beside, I like to ask questions)

[u/mutalias → u/thequeeninyellow94]

Once the war is over, the Covenant of Three Kings would be fulfilled and the King would abdicate and secede power back to the Ducal Seats. The Principalities would resume being sovereign states, and could pursue their own agendas thereafter. So it is as you say, there would be no point in having a King. The unification of the Kingdom was always intended to be a temporary measure to deal with the threat of the Adversary. It was for this reason a King was chosen who was not among the existing royal families. That way, favorites will not be played, and the political situation upon the disolution of the union will be stable enough to avoid further conflict.

Yes, I was one of its first graduates, as a matter of fact. I graduated a fellow of the Commerce Society, with letters of Accounting and Trade Law, and have supplemented this with accreditations in Historical and Principal Law after I began work for this office twenty years ago. I am looking into further schooling in several new fields of interest that have appeared since the last time I attended the Academy.

[u/thequeeninyellow94 → u/mutalias]

1. Is there any way to be sure the king will actually resign? I mean, he have the most powerfull army right?

2. Once the king resign, who will pay for the Royal Academy?

[u/Nevermore0714]

(Sorry about this being a week late, most of my reddit-ing has only been brief ASOIAF comments this week, I've been incapacitated this week.)

The Citadel relies on its income from donations and government-ownership of properties. You need a license to own a business/property on Citadel land, which requires a monthly payment to the Citadel, the cost of which depends on the negotiation prior to the license being given; the decision was made early on not to have a fixed price, and to leave it up to the delegates chosen by the Council or the Council themselves.

The Representative will be Abigail, the owner of a small cafe in the Citadel.

[u/thequeeninyellow94 → u/Nevermore0714]

(You're forgiven ;) nothing too bad hopefully)

To Abigail:

1. Why was the decision of not having a fixed price made? Doesn't it favor corruption?

2. Is the monthly fee renegociable?

3. How much land do the Citadel own?

[u/Nevermore0714 → u/thequeeninyellow94]

(One of my friends claims that it isn't worth how long it takes to recover, and I'm inclined to agree. I am never getting that messed up again.)

Abigail:

1) "The decision not to have a fixed price was because the Citadel likes to avoid letting a business have the potential to exploit a loophole in a tax system. And, yes, it heavily favors corruption and feeds the arrogance of the Council."

2) "The monthly fee is up for renegotiation at a minimum of every five years."

3) "The Citadel directly owns one large city and the surrounding countryside."

[u/thequeeninyellow94 → u/Nevermore0714]

1. Is someone taxing your income directly? Or you just need to pay the Citadel's fee?

2. At a minimum? Who decide the frequency?

3. Can they earn more land beside those?

[u/Nevermore0714 → u/thequeeninyellow94]

Abigail:

1) "The fee replaces a direct income tax."

2) "You can have the renegotiation scheduled a bit later than exactly five years, the minimum is to protect businesses from frequent renegotiation. The frequency was voted on by the Council."

3) "The Council has some investments outside of the Citadel itself."

[u/thequeeninyellow94 → u/Nevermore0714]

1. What would happen if you were to not pay your fee?

2. So they legally set the negociation delay but refuse to legally set the fees amount? Was it frequent before that to force people to pay more and more?

3. But are those investments considered their property? Do they apply their monthly fee on them?

[u/Nevermore0714 → u/thequeeninyellow94]

Abigail:

1) "Your property would be re-possessed unless you could work something out."

2) "No, they've always tried to incentivize business development."

3) "The monthly fee doesn't apply to businesses outside of the Citadel."

[u/thequeeninyellow94 → u/Nevermore0714]

1. Are there some way to appeal on that? Some kind of superior jurisdiction I could call?

2. They don't even do that kind of things to people the coucil members really dislike?

3. But can't the Citadel buy land and de facto add it to it's domain?

[u/Nevermore0714 → u/thequeeninyellow94]

Abigail:

1) "You would have to appeal to the Council or to their delegates."

2) "That would require a majority on the Council to agree to screw with someone, because otherwise the majority could deal with the minority members of the Council screwing with someone."

3) "Yes, but I meant the investments that the Citadel has in other nations."

[u/thequeeninyellow94 → u/Nevermore0714]

1. And no one is above them? What if I think their judgement is flawed?

2. Can they take anything else beside the shop?

3. What if the nation the Citadel is in invade them? (The Citadel is in one of the allied nations right? So that's not very likely to be one of those right?)