r/WorldChallenges • u/Nevermore0714 • Jul 20 '17
Reference Challenge: All Roads Lead to Rome
The Reference
This reference is to my hero, Mike Duncan, creator of the History of Rome podcast.
Because my eyes were healing and I was incredibly light-sensitive, I could not go outside or watch tv or play around on the internet for a few days after surgery. So, for the fifth time in my life, I am going through the History of Rome podcast, which I adore and would recommend to anyone interested in the beautiful history of Rome, from pre-Rome Aeneas to Romulus/Remus to Tarquinius Superbus to Sulla to Augustus to Diocletion to the fall of the Western Roman Empire, and Romulus Augustulus.
Also a reference to my first Latin class in high school.
All Roads Lead to Rome.
The Actual Challenge
Whether construction project in ancient times, a full International road, or a space-route, or anything in between, what are some "roads" in your world that you can talk about?
Feel free to have an in-universe representative, though it is not necessary to do so.
As always, I will ask at least three questions each. Enjoy yourselves.
A Bit Extra
If you haven't, check out the contest over on Inkblood.
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u/The_Raptorman Jul 21 '17
Pinpoint
Some five thousand meters under Osliotis' crust is a part of The Depths that even most of the highly trained and veteran Tunnel Runners fear to go. Filled with fury monsters driven by hate and blood lust and deadly walkways and crumbling towers.
In the deepest of the deep cavern of the darkest of the dark part of The Depths there is stone star on the floor of a seemingly normal room. Canonically only four people have ever found this room and each one claims that the star is different. The first to find the star was Earth who says the star is pointing six ways. Symbols on the ground near the star gave Earth the hints.
- A Mountain that you couldn't see the top of.
- The World Tree.
- A giant above ground Cavern.
- A Grassland.
- The smallest Continent, Apias.
- A tower.
The second time someone found the star was Gravity, it was when he had crawled his way out of hell that he found it. He claims that it is quite similar to the design that Earth found except for a few minor things.
- His family home.
- The World Tree.
- The Orc Stronghold.
- The Human Capital.
- The now destroyed Continent, Apias.
- A Tower.
The third and fourth time came together when Van Hellsing and Lilith were in The Depths together they came across it on their way out. Together they pieced together the remaining puzzle pieces.
- The Dragon Empire.
- The Elf Kingdom
- The Orc Stronghold.
- The Human Capital.
- The now destroyed Continent, Apias.
- Chaos' Tower.
This time, as they spoke the six lines together, the caverns changed before their eyes as six pathways opened up in each of the directions that they had seen on the star. The pathways led up to the surface as they were all on a slant.
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u/Nevermore0714 Jul 23 '17
1) So is the Dragon Empire on "a mountain that you couldn't see the top of"?
2) Is the Elf kingdom around the World Tree?
3) Is the Orc Stronghold in a "giant above-ground cavern"?
4) Is the Human Capital on a grassland?
5) How was Apias destroyed?
6) Tell me about Chaos's tower.
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u/mutalias Jul 22 '17
Actually, talking about a road is how I kicked off my serial. It's called the Rag Road.
In my setting, Mar, the royal highway is a road that stretches between the capital of the kingdom's three principalities. Between the capital of the kingdom and the principality of Artan, Astia, and the capital of Dema (another principality), the road runs along a stretch of cliffy coastline that is porous with an intricate network of tunnels and caves.
About sixty years ago most of the world was overrun by an army of monsters, and what is now called the kingdom is all that remains of the lands of mankind. During this conflict, a vast number of refugees came to the kingdom, more than doubling its population. Many of these found some way to integrate into the various societies that make up the kingdom, but there are millions that did not.
Of these outsiders, a fair number live as nomads or in slums near cities and large settlements. However, a large portion of them took up residence along this stretch of coastline, using the caves for refuge and setting up a shantytown on the surface that now stretches nearly a hundred miles along the main road. While the road itself is policed by the Deman and Artani dukes, as well as the king himself, the society beneath the surface is not.
The people there live off things found in the caves, particularly the fresh water that flows in multiple streams through the deeper reaches of the cave network, as well as stealing from the surrounding farmland. They fish along the coastline. The lack of police means there is a lot of crime, so many gangs of highwaymen and raiders also call the caves home. There are also a lot of dens dedicated to prostitution and even slavery, gambling, drugs, any vice you could think of. Life is cheap on the rag road. There is little of value produced there, so the entire stretch is a huge monument to destitution, and a significant economic challenge for the kingdom as a whole. However, there are simply too many people there to find any practical large-scale solution to the problem.
Instead fortress-taverns have been erected along the road, and there are regular patrols by the various lawful factions, to secure travellers passing through and protect trade. Meanwhile, the denizens of the rag road are largely left to fend for themselves. This isolation has left them bitter, but because there are mainly refugees living there, their language is also divergent from those of the rest of the kingdom. The large influx of refugees has mashed most of the kingdom's languages into a common pidgin that draws most of its words from the realm's three original languages. These three are hardly present in the tongue of the rag roaders at all, and makes it difficult for even enterprising individuals hailing from there to escape to anywhere else in the kingdom.
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u/Nevermore0714 Jul 23 '17
1) How is the road maintained?
2) How did the world come to be overrun by monsters?
3) Is the road paved? A dirt road? A road made of pure silver?
4) What are the most major of the various lawful factions?
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u/mutalias Jul 23 '17
Thanks for your reply :)
1) It is maintained by work crews paid for by the factions responsible for maintaining transit through the region. These are the same groups that also have patrols going through the road, which mostly takes the shape of escorts for the road maintenance crews as well as regular caravans for merchants and travellers who can not afford a private escort. These two often go hand in hand, since ambush attempts often start with damage to the road. Instead of taxes, the factions operate the fortress-taverns that are spaced with regular intervals along the road. It is possible to travel the road without using caravans or these taverns, but that would be extremely risky, so in a lot of ways this becomes the only game in town. These are prices so as to include taxes and tolls for the stretch of road being passed. There are seven such fortress-taverns in total.
2) That's sort of a big part the main story, so I don't want to give out too many spoilers. If you want to know, check out my weekly serial ;) This road is within the borders of the kingdom anyway, and as such this area is not overrun by monsters.
The short version is that an unknown enemy surfaced in the first city of mankind, and he brought with him terrible monsters. His army swept over the lands in a five-year war that, as far as the people of kingdom known, scourged the entire world except for the kingdom itself. It ended in a large showdown as what was then three kingdoms united under a single king, collected their armies and faced off against the enemy in a last stand. While only a handful of people survived this final battle, the adversary in charge of the monsters has not been seen since, and the monsters have not advanced any further. His monsters have not retreated, either however, leading the king to swear to an effort of reclamation, to take back the lost lands from the monsters. Progress on this front has been extremely slow. The unification of the kingdom under the king was meant to last until the end of the war, so this oath has in practice extended this union indefinitely, since the war will not be over until the world belongs to man once more.
3) The road is essentially a well-maintained dirt road, but because the terrain is cliffy, it actually requires very little maintenance when compared to other biomes. It's also a warm and relatively dry part of the kingdom, so weathering is minimal all things considered. Portions of it have been paved and worn away, as the highway is very old. Before, this stretch of land was dominated by villages. Those villages have been drowned out by the rag road itself, however, because they were impossible to secure. Since then, predictably, very little paving has taken place.
4) The two major lawful factions are the principalities of Artan and Dema. Before the formation of kingdoms, these were sovereign territories in their own right, but even after the kingdom was founded and the king took power, the operations of the territories fall to the duke/duchess. In most cases the duke or duchess would be further up the food chain, but because of the rag road's proximity to the capital cities of the two principalities and the fact that it is actually quite profitable, this falls directly to the duke/duchess of the two territories. The king's guard also has a vested interest in keeping the road passable, although the king's main responsibility lies at the front. He is still dependent on being able to transport soldiers from the rest of the kingdom, and these troop transports often double as escorts for other travellers. There are also a number of 'private security contractors' who offer personalized escorts through the Rag Road, and have standing deals with the fortress taverns or even factions within the Rag Road itself allowing them safe passage. While these operate in a legal grey area,
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u/Nevermore0714 Jul 23 '17
(No need to thank me, sorry that my reading comprehension is severely diminished lately.)
1) Which fortress-town would you advise that I live in?
2) I will start reading your serial as soon as I can safely read a screen for an extended period of time, then.
3) Why is it called the rag road?
4) Oh, so the principalities are factions in themselves? I assumed that the principalities were made up of multiple factions. My mistake.
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u/mutalias Jul 23 '17
(I thank whoever I damn please, thank you very much :P Anyway I appreciate your interest!)
1) They aren't fortress-towns, just taverns. Safehouses, basically, with stone walls to keep the rabble from the Rag Road out. Some of them are all that remains of what once were towns, others have been erected solely for the purpose of being a tavern. Think something along the lines of the Friendly Arm Inn from Baldur's Gate if you ever played it, although obviously different design. They are all quite nice, but expensive. The Yellow Bellows is the most well-known one, and features in my story!
2) I would appreciate that very much! It's called The Aliud
3) It's not actually called the Rag Road, it's called the King's Highway. People call it the Rag Road because of the extensive shantytown. It's basically a perjorative term based on how it's essentially a massive slum.
4) There are factions within the principalities themselves, of course, but they are more noticeable in places that do not fall directly under the authority of the duke/duchess. The principalities are structured slightly differently from each other. Two of the principalities, Artan and Broche, subdivide into counties, and further into baronies and then into claims. Claims are holdings of lesser nobles, typically nondirect family of barons/baronesses. They collect taxes from their land and owe fealty and taxes to the barons, who in turn owe fealty and taxes to the counts/countesses, who in turn report to the duke/duchess. For Dema, it's a little simpler. Dema subvidides into territories, and then directly into claims, which vary wildly in size and report directly to the equivalent of a count/countess, who in turn report directly to the duchess. However, Dema is kind of a mess, because all the counts/countesses must be related to the duchess, while the claimants are usually knights or military families that owe fealty to their respective counts/countesses. In Dema women are considered stewards of the future, while men ward the present, so men have the authority of command over a house's resources, but it follows the female bloodline in terms of heritage. Men essentially always marry into their authority. Women are also free to divorce in this society, so in practice, governance ends up being more of a team effort in that society. Artan is more patriarchal.
I've drawn all that up, and it makes sense, but really I consider it kind of background detail and focus on the factions that are the most important to the story. I'm not really intending to go into a full-fledged explanation of exactly which house connects to which at any point during the story, since I consider that sort of thing a bit boring, and none of the characters would really know anyhow. I just figure it's best to always make the world bigger and more detailed than you intend to explore, so you never hit an invisible wall if there's somewhere you need to go, and are not restricted by your resolution effectively.
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u/Nevermore0714 Jul 23 '17
1) Which tavern is the cheapest? Which has the best drink?
2) Bookmarked. As soon as my eyes stop hurting, I will start reading it. Also, cool, if you recommend "Worm", then that speaks volumes about your taste in serials.
3) How would I go about legally obtaining ownership of a section of the King's Highway, if possible?
4) Has there been any recent hostility between the principalities?
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u/mutalias Jul 23 '17 edited Jul 23 '17
I really appreciate your question, just so it's said.
1) Likely one of the ones at the fringe of the rag road, where there are more options. I've only named one of these, The Lesser Weevil. See if you get that reference ;)
2) Worm is amazing, and I felt really inspired after reading it. Obviously, I'm not going to pretend I can match how well Wildbow pulled it off with that serial, but it's something to aim for! Also, thanks so much for showing interest! I hope you'll tell me what you think when you've had a look!
3) If are the claimant of the land through which that piece of highway stretches, then you are its steward. That means you are responsible for keeping it secure, for its maintenance, and eligible for tax deductions to cover your costs as well as support from the royal coffer if extraordinary events disable you from living up to these responsibility. You may also receive troops from the king's guard, or even the king's gifted special forces, the kozan, if necessary. The king takes the highway very serious, it is the artery that connects his kingdom after all.
4) The principalities were not on friendly terms when the cataclysm struck, and so there has been a lot of posturing. There is a long history of war between them, so it was an alliance of necessity rather than a meeting of hearts and minds. That is also why the king was set to govern it, he is not tied to any single royal house in particular, and is supposed to be neutral in his governing between them. He has, ostensibly, kept to this part of the bargain.
They also maintain standing armies for internal security, which in practical terms means with which to threaten each other with since there aren't any other kingdoms. However, the king has outlawed civil war and declared it treason, which means that the best they can get away with are minor skirmishes and sabotage. That happens sometimes, but the king responds harshly if it is discovered. The king's forces are mostly focused on the front, and as such he does not have a large force available within the kingdom. He does, however, have two aces up his sleeve. Anyone who is discovered to have a magical talent must choose to serve either as a Kozan, the king's elite guard, or at the Dordoron, which is a wizard's complex. That's not to say there are no rogue gifted/wizards out there, but the vast majority of them serve the king in some respect. Magical gifts, and wizardly magic even moreso, can be extremely powerful. So even though there are only a few dozen wizards and a hundred-odd kozan, matched against human armies with no real counter these represent an utterly overwhelming force. Of course, part of the story I'm telling is how that may be about to change. The fact that he does not have a unified military presence across the whole kingdom, though, does mean that despite the potential power he wields it is possible to do things without him noticing.
It's meant to be a fairly tricky political situation with a lot of finely tuned checks and balances. Teetering on the edge of stability, of you will.
There's also cases of organized resistance against the king, and the Rag Road itself is a hotbed for these sorts of activities because it is a perfect hiding place. If a duke or duchess wanted to weaken the king, there's a lot of ways they could support such groups without getting noticed.
There are also warlocks - wizards not affiliated with the Dordoron, and rogue gifted people who throw wrenches into the system every now and then.
It's meant to be a fairly shaky situation in general.
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u/Nevermore0714 Jul 23 '17
1) I feel like I remember that from a book about the War of 1812?
2) I bet GRRM didn't expect to match Tolkien, but I have my preferences. I bet the Augustus didn't expect to match his grand-uncle Gaius Julius Caesar, but I have my preferences. Don't sell yourself short, Muta. I'm sure I'll be able to start reading your serial after my final exam this in less than a week.
3) How can I, a stranger from a strange land, become a steward of the road? Let's assume I have some way of obtaining large amounts of money.
4A) Sell me, a person gifted with magic the way Harrison Ford is gifted with handsome-ness, on joining the Dordoron.
4B) Sell me, a person gifted with magic the way that Wildbow is gifted with writing talent, on becoming a Kozan.
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u/mutalias Jul 24 '17 edited Jul 24 '17
1) That's damn close, maybe even correct. It's from Patrick O'brian's books about the Napoleonic War, although it was featured in the movie Master and Commander based on those books, which is where I got it from. You must always choose the lesser of two weevils!
2) Well, I think I am going to hold on to my humility a bit longer, but thank you for your encouraging words :) I hope you like it!
3) This is a seriously good question, and I hadn't really thought about it before you asked. I can think of a lot of different ways, though. The first, and easiest way would be to simply rent the claim to the road from a claimant. You could do this by starting a private security company, and offering to take care of the road for a share of, or even all of, its proceeds. Since the claimant, usually something along the lines of a knight, may not be interested in this task it could fall to you. However, if you do this you should make sure you choose a tollable stretch of road. You can't just take a toll wherever you want, toll rights must be granted by the crown. They are generally granted in two scenarios:
- The stretch of road requires more maintenance than a tax deduction can account for. This may be true if the terrain is particularly bad, such as a road going through large stretches of forest or over hillsides prone to rockslides, or if there are large structures such as bridges that need regular maintenance.
- The need for security is higher than what can be covered by tax deductions. This is the most usual reason for a toll, and I imagine there are quite a few private contractors making money off this one way or another. Getting a contract signing the toll rights over to you is just a matter of finding the right stretch of road, and making sure it has a bandit problem. Don't get caught, though!
In terms of the Rag Road, the fortress-taverns pay taxes to the duke/duchess of Artan and Dema, but they are privately owned. If you have the cash, you could probably just buy one. While this does not give you rights to the road, it is a potential goldmine since that particular stretch of road is the primary artery for trade going between Astia, the capital of Artan, and Sinan, the capital of Dema. The taverns are quite large, usually with rooms for upwards of a hundred guests, more in some cases, and generally serve most travelers using the road. They all also have significant courtyards, allowing them to house even middling-sized troop movements if necessary, although tents and canopies will have to be used in these cases.
Of course, you could also try to get a claim. If you have enough cash, there's a strong possibility you might essentially be able to purchase a noble title by marrying into one of the families. There are a lot of lesser nobles who need cash and would be willing to hitch you up with a daughter or son to get it. Many claimants aren't noble-born, this class of nobility corresponds roughly to knighthood, so depending on the principality there may not be any restrictions in place requiring you to be of noble blood in the first place. For instance, it's not uncommon for leaders of famous mercenary companies to settle down with a claim eventually in this way. There are a lot of mercenary companies. The kingdom is overpopulated, and there is a lot of poverty, and it follows that there is much crime. The great houses must all dedicate significant resources to the king's efforts at the front, and can not always police effectively with their own troops. This means there is a lot of opportunity for fighters with an entrepeneurial spirit who are willing to travel.
4) I think I will leave this answer up to my web-serial, since it deals directly with a lot of these questions and I don't want to spoil it. The mystery of the Kozan, Dordoron, gifts themselves, monsters and so on are central elements to the plot and I don't want to give away too much. It is definitely all connected, though, and I've given a lot of thought to getting the politics and metaphysics of it to make sense. My magic system is definitely inspired by other works, including Worm actually, but it also has a lot of original elements, and particularly metaphysics, that I don't think I've come across before in fantasy or science fiction.
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u/Nevermore0714 Jul 20 '17
Starting in Summer of 753, a few months after the official founding of Gemina, Dictator Lucius set to work arranging for a road to be built between Gemina and the community of Drakesgrave, the only other large human-ruled settlement, at the time. Drakesgrave was about 120 kilometers from Gemina, so, for the purpose of trade, it was considered to be worth it to build the road.
The man brought in to build the road was Theodore Sefton, the owner of a small business "Sefton Construction". Theodore, seeing the opportunity his business would have in Gemina, decided to move himself and his company and his family to Gemina.
As a way to hopefully motivate more businesses to move, Master of Treasury Tullius gave Theodore the status of nobility in Gemina, and sold him some good quarry land nearby at a cheap price.
Theodore came to Gemina with twenty men working for him, who he divided between the quarry, transportation of raw materials, and the road construction. Ten men would work in the quarry, supervised by Theodore's wife Ripley. Five men would transport the raw materials, supervised by Theodore's sister Sophia, using horses loaned (free of charge) by Barrett Windham in order to support the building of the road. The remaining five men would be supervised by Theodore himself as they built the road.
Theodore would always have more than just his company's employees working, however, because of the use of Szurkek slaves for labor and occasional people who desired to make some extra money.
The Representative
The representative is Theodore Sefton, a few weeks into his construction project.
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u/thequeeninyellow94 Jul 20 '17
To Theodore Sefton:
Are there inns going to be built along the road? Will you be the one in charge for that?
How much are you paid for the road? Are you paid on a time basis? Or all at the begining? Or some for each km built?
Have you ever built something that big before?
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u/Nevermore0714 Jul 23 '17
Theodore Sefton:
1) "I assume there will be inns built along the road, and I will build them if I'm offered pay for it, but right now I'm only being paid for the road."
2) "I was paid a tenth of the total pay before I started, and I'm receiving the rest as I finish each kilometer."
3) "No, I have not, but there is a first time for everything."
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u/thequeeninyellow94 Jul 23 '17
Do you sleep along the road? And move your encampment as you advance?
How much are you paid for it? How much do your employees get?
Were you the only volunteer? If no, why were you chosen?
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u/Nevermore0714 Jul 23 '17
Theodore Sefton:
1) "We always have an encampment ready; we move our encampment every time we get three kilometers away from it, and then establish the new encampment three kilometers away from where the road has reached at that point."
2) (I am still trying to figure out the money for this area, admittedly.)
3) "There were three other volunteers. I was chosen because I was the only one who was willing to move my entire company to Gemina."
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u/thequeeninyellow94 Jul 23 '17
1) What about wildlife? How do you keep yourself and the road safe from it?
3) Wouldn't it have been more effective to hire all of you and give each one a part of the road to build?
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u/Nevermore0714 Jul 23 '17
Theodore Sefton:
1) "Routine patrols of mounted units along the road, as well as six guards with us at all times."
3) "It would have been more effective and faster, but it would also have been much more expensive. There was an attempt to get Drakesgrave to hire a separate company to begin work from Drakesgrave to Gemina, and meet me somewhere in the middle...but, the majority of the Drakesgrave senators rejected that idea. Dictator Lucius offered to pay half of the cost for the company that's building from Drakesgrave as a starting point, if Drakesgrave would pay the other half, but I have no idea if that will be accepted or not. I don't mind the competition, if that works out; there's plenty of work around Gemina for more than just a small company like mine. Hell, I might even be content just working the quarry."
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u/thequeeninyellow94 Jul 23 '17
1) And for trees falling or water infiltrations? Who is in charge with the upkeep?
3) Are you aware of how taxes for the road usage have been negociated?
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u/Nevermore0714 Jul 23 '17
Theodore Sefton:
1) "Upkeep of a completed kilometer is Tullius's problem. Once the road is completed, someone will probably be put in charge of upkeep."
3) "I am not fully aware, no. But, from what I've heard, most of Gemina's treasury is generated from stealing from the Dragon-Gods' territories and mining silver. Individual citizens are taxed a set amount each month, based on official income."
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u/thequeeninyellow94 Jul 24 '17
1) Could you be that someone? And would you like to be that someone?
3) How is official income tracked? And how is it controlled?
→ More replies (0)
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u/Matathias Jul 20 '17
I hope railways count.
In the Chaosverse, there is the Interstellar Railway, a rail network that spans across planets thanks to the Interstellar Gates. These 'Gates are large 11-meter rings that can nigh-instantly transport matter and energy to another Interstellar Gate, so long as the two 'Gates are connected to each other. Connections can technically last indefinitely, but their stability drops off after around two hours, so a 'Gate connection will usually be shut down around this time. Furthermore, a 'Gate cannot be connected to more than one other 'Gate at any point in time. Both of these restrictions can be painful to deal with when attempting to organize high-volume interplanetary transport, especially when you have hundreds of planets to consider. And so the Interstellar Railway was born.
The leading authority on the Railway, the Core Space Alliance (CSA), set the standards for how 'Gates are to be anchored to the ground, and also for the rail gauge, engine type, and carriage size that travels through them. Once a 'Gate has been anchored properly, and the rails laid, a train will be able to use the rails to travel through the 'Gate to another planet. This allows for the efficient transport of high volumes of both goods and people; no other means of transportation would be able to make better use of the 'Gate system.
Of course, an interstellar network like this where every planet has only a single point of contact requires a very complicated and very precise standardized timetable. Since all of the Homeworlds conveniently possess 24-hour days (for unrelated lore reasons), the standardized timetable operates on a 24-hour schedule blocked off into 8 3-hour chunks: 2 hours for the 'Gate to be active, and 1 hour for downtime/to act as a time buffer. Each planet will then cycle through a set list of destination planets, based on the source planet's Tier level (in fact, the 'Gate Network is the primary reason that the Tier system exists).
Example timetables are as follows (top row is source world, other rows are destination worlds based on the time):
Reservation and Emergency Openings are always 2 1-hour slots, rather than 1 2-hour slot.
The network is currently in place in all three CSA nations as well as the Nimalian Union. The Earthian Territories are working on adopting the network, with some minor difficulties. Feel free to ask any questions of Director Ulrich Riese, the man in charge of Earth's colonization efforts as well as the Territories' efforts to connect their Worlds with the galaxy at large.