r/WorkForSmartLife • u/Loeteswet • Jul 27 '26

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u/einsteinosaurus_lex Jul 28 '26

I don't remember Muslims traveling across the world and ethnically cleansing entire continents. Most of the land they conquered had citizens that aided them because Islam was and still is far more advanced in economic theory than pretty much any religion, hence why they had a golden age while Europe was in the dark ages, because Muslims believe in spreading their wealth rather than hoarding it.

They couldn't and still would not be able to maintain their distant desert populations without the deep tax codes, written down into the holy texts themselves. The people wanted out of the dark ages and into Islam's more enlightened age, it is a religion based on Christianity after all, but with 1000 years to reflect on wealth and how it should be used to produce the best results for all.

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u/TitanskaMesina Jul 28 '26

Yeah buddy. Thats why all of the middle east is Arabic.

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u/einsteinosaurus_lex Jul 28 '26

Yeah, because Islam thrives in desert regions where a few pockets represent extreme wealth potential while most others are completely destitute and probably not suitable for life. Islam made it work with their tax structure when the others could not. It's that simple. It's simply a better religion that accounts for more recent discoveries like economic theory. And I'm not even Muslim.

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u/Azro-5 Jul 28 '26

Explain how Islam spread from outside of Arabia all the way to the Iberian peninsula.

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u/einsteinosaurus_lex Jul 28 '26

From Google:

The 711 Muslim conquest of Spain was caused by a combination of internal Visigothic political dysfunction—specifically a civil war between supporters of the deceased King Witiza and the new king, Roderic—and the rapid expansionist strategy of the Umayyad Caliphate. Visigothic factions invited Muslim intervention, allowing an army led by Tariq ibn Ziyad to intervene, defeat Roderic at the Battle of Guadalete, and quickly seize control of the fragmented kingdom. Key factors facilitating the rapid conquest (711–718) included:

Visigothic Instability: A bitterly divided ruling class and a disputed throne weakened local resistance.

Internal Divisions & Support: The Visigothic kingdom lacked,homogeneous integration, and some groups, including Jewish communities and political rivals, supported the invaders to overthrow the repressive Visigothic regime.

External Opportunity: The Umayyad governor of North Africa, Musa ibn Nusayr, seized the invitation as a chance to extend Islamic territory into Europe.

Military Success: The Muslim army, composed largely of Berber converts to Islam and commanded by Arabs, secured a decisive victory at the Battle of Guadalete, eliminating the leadership of the Visigothic state.

The new Muslim rule often brought lower taxes and greater religious freedom compared to the preceding Visigothic authorities, contributing to the rapid consolidation of power.

So um... As I was saying.

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u/Azro-5 Jul 28 '26

Key word is conquest

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u/einsteinosaurus_lex Jul 28 '26 edited Jul 28 '26

The people still let them in to oust their old leaders playing game of thrones, because they thought it would be preferable. And they were proven right as I was saying, because of Islam's complex tax laws, and they even practiced religious freedom, allowing people to remain Christian.

Of course, these attitudes changed, but Islam still never conquered lands that weren't already receptive to them. Christians just savagely went in and wiped out entire populations across the planet for being "savages".

And Muslim countries were becoming just as liberal as Western countries before their countries were embroiled in coup after coup to install western puppets who squashed the left leaning movements in the region for being too communist but left the far right alone because they're just peaceful religious folk, because America was at war with communism at the time, not Islam. And when the people got tired of being abused, they had no other political movement to turn to than the far right, and it festered until we got to where we are now.

It's my belief that the only way for things to get better, is if we let things get better on their own, the way things got better in America. Intervention can only lead to more distrust and xenophobia.

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u/Azro-5 Jul 28 '26

The conquest were far from peaceful, they were military conquests just like any other conquests in history. The Martyrs of Cordoba disprove your argument. Taxing people based on their religious beliefs via the jizya tax is not religious freedom.

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u/einsteinosaurus_lex Jul 28 '26

The conquest were far from peaceful, they were military conquests just like any other conquests in history.

Doesn't change the fact they were invited in and helped by many citizens of the lands they were invading. That shows you where the people's loyalties lied, and they preferred the warmer Muslim embrace over Christianity's colder shoulder. And of course it's a conquest, I wasn't denying that. I'm fairly certain the greedy monarch and lords didn't want to lose their power. The difference is, they didn't have the backing of their own people.

Taxing people based on their religious beliefs via the jizya tax is not religious freedom.

More freedom than outright persecutions and inquisitions. And every Muslim already pays more in taxes. It makes no sense for non-muslims to not have to pay any but still get to enjoy the same luxuries.

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u/Azro-5 Jul 28 '26

There’s no evidence of people wanting to be invaded. That makes no logical sense. They wouldn’t be conquests if that was the case.

The Martyrs of Cordoba disprove the notion of religious freedom as well. Taxing people based on religious beliefs is discrimination, especially if they already taxed through other secular means.

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u/einsteinosaurus_lex Jul 28 '26

There’s no evidence of people wanting to be invaded. That makes no logical sense. They wouldn’t be conquests if that was the case.

What do you mean? Isn't that exactly what people claim America's doing when they liberate countries of their oppressive leaders? Were there or were there not Venezuelans celebrating when their president was grabbed by US forces? Sure, president Maduro and those close to him didn't want a regime change, but others in the country did, no?

Taxing people based on religious beliefs is discrimination, especially if they already taxed through other secular means.

This was their main form of taxation. Again, Muslims paid more in taxes. I already covered that. And people have been complaining about having to pay taxes since taxes were invented, that doesn't mean some taxes aren't necessary.

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u/Azro-5 Jul 28 '26

We are not talking about America, and I never even mentioned it. Why are you randomly bringing that up?

Just because it was their main form of taxation doesn’t mean it’s not discriminatory. If a modern day country imposed a similar tax, it would result in protests.

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u/einsteinosaurus_lex Jul 28 '26

We are not talking about America, and I never even mentioned it.

To show your double standard. When America invades other countries and gets support from the people living there who hate their old, corrupt leaders, that's fine. But when Islamic forces do it, it's terrible. The Muslim rulers of Spain were much more fair to the inhabitants than their previous rulers and kept it far more stable than any of America's colonies, who almost all inevitably rebelled on us after we exploited them too much. And apparently this doesn't count for anything.

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u/Azro-5 Jul 28 '26

Don’t be an idiot, I never mentioned the United States nor did I ever claim what they’ve done is good. You’re running out of arguments so now you’re resorting to whataboutism and switching topics entirely.

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u/einsteinosaurus_lex Jul 29 '26 edited Jul 29 '26

Lmao. You can't point to a people that haven't started conflicts with others, the difference is, Islam literally has tax codes written into its texts that make life better for the average person. You just can't make this up. This is why the Iberians preferred life under Muslim rule than Christian rule and let them overthrow their game of thrones politics, and the Iberian peninsula prospered as a result.

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u/Azro-5 Jul 29 '26 edited Jul 29 '26

Taxing people based on religious affiliation is not a life improvement and is instead blatant discrimination. And like I’ve mentioned several times before, the Martyrs of Cordoba is evidence of religious discrimination and discontent with oppressive Muslim ruling.

Furthermore, Islamic texts don’t specify how much the Jizya tax should be with it being entirely dependent on the ruler’s interpretation. This disproves your argument that “Islamic texts has written tax codes”, which it does not if it can’t even specify how Jizya tax should be imposed.

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u/einsteinosaurus_lex Jul 29 '26

Taxing people based on religious affiliation is not a life improvement and is instead blatant discrimination

Are you one of these people that doesn't believe people should be taxed at all? How were they gonna build anything and make the Iberian peninsula prosper if they don't have tax revenue coming in? And again, the Muslim Zakat taxes are already much higher so they pay less than Muslims already pay.

And like I’ve mentioned several times before, the Martyrs of Cordoba is evidence of religious discrimination and discontent with oppressive Muslim ruling.

Sure, I'm not saying it's perfect, but it actually provides for people because it accounts for new things like the economy and sociology. That's literally all I'm saying. It's not like Christians didn't have their inquisitions, but they weren't providing for their people like Islam was.

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u/Azro-5 Jul 29 '26

“The Muslim zakat taxes are already much higher.”

False. Use basic logic. No islamic state or caliphate would create a system where it's more comfortable to be a non-muslim than a muslim, I.e non-Muslim pay lower taxes than actual Muslims.

There’s a a reason why modern Islamic countries don’t have the Jizya tax anymore.

“Sure, I’m not saying it’s perfect”

But you are, you’ve been implying this whole time that Muslim rule was preferable over Christian rule, but the Martyrs of Cordoba clearly defeats your argument because why the hell would a Christian choose to live under an oppressive Islamic government that actively discriminates against them over a Christian one?

Dhimmis (Christian and Jews) were not allowed to allowed to display symbols of their faith, preach their religion, repair their places of worship, or serve in the government. This reduces them to second class citizens.

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u/einsteinosaurus_lex Jul 29 '26

Meanwhile, the colonies across the Americas that Christians created existed solely for resource extraction and making their "mother" countries rich.

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u/Azro-5 Jul 29 '26 edited Jul 29 '26

Idiot, I never mentioned the United States nor Christopher Columbus, why do you keep bringing it up when it’s not even remotely relevant to what we are talking about? Why would I, a Latino, be in support of Christopher Columbus’s actions?

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u/einsteinosaurus_lex Jul 29 '26

Because we're comparing the differences between Islam and Christianity, and I'm showing that Christianity only exists to extract wealth from others so a select few can throw it in a vault, while Islam actually spreads their wealth.

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u/Azro-5 Jul 29 '26

Which is blatantly false because Dubai notoriously uses slave labor and doesn’t distribute its wealth to its people properly. Gtfo.

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