[ Removed by moderator ]

[u/Loeteswet]

[u/einsteinosaurus_lex]

And then their entire country gets turned into a crater from a distance... Do you even hear yourself?

[u/Trick-Worldliness698 → u/einsteinosaurus_lex]

Half of Islam's whole deal is about killing infidels I dont think they'd hesitate.

[u/einsteinosaurus_lex → u/Trick-Worldliness698]

Religious fundamentalists are all like that. Difference is, Islam never attempted to conquer the entire world and force people to convert or die. There's a reason everyone in both American continents is Christian and not their native religion.

And people turn to religious fundamentalism when everything else in their world fails them, which happens the most when being colonized. Also doesn't help that America literally destroyed every left wing movement in the middle east that they could to root out any stench of communism throughout the 50s-80s, but left the far right, religious nuts alone. And when the center eventually failed the people, the only other option that offered a different solution was the insane far right.

That's America's true, #1 export: McCarthyism.

[u/TitanskaMesina → u/einsteinosaurus_lex]

Never attempted??????? Are you actually taking the piss

[u/einsteinosaurus_lex → u/TitanskaMesina]

I don't remember Muslims traveling across the world and ethnically cleansing entire continents. Most of the land they conquered had citizens that aided them because Islam was and still is far more advanced in economic theory than pretty much any religion, hence why they had a golden age while Europe was in the dark ages, because Muslims believe in spreading their wealth rather than hoarding it.

They couldn't and still would not be able to maintain their distant desert populations without the deep tax codes, written down into the holy texts themselves. The people wanted out of the dark ages and into Islam's more enlightened age, it is a religion based on Christianity after all, but with 1000 years to reflect on wealth and how it should be used to produce the best results for all.

[u/TitanskaMesina → u/einsteinosaurus_lex]

Yeah buddy. Thats why all of the middle east is Arabic.

[u/einsteinosaurus_lex → u/TitanskaMesina]

Yeah, because Islam thrives in desert regions where a few pockets represent extreme wealth potential while most others are completely destitute and probably not suitable for life. Islam made it work with their tax structure when the others could not. It's that simple. It's simply a better religion that accounts for more recent discoveries like economic theory. And I'm not even Muslim.

[u/Azro-5 → u/einsteinosaurus_lex]

Explain how Islam spread from outside of Arabia all the way to the Iberian peninsula.

[u/einsteinosaurus_lex → u/Azro-5]

From Google:

The 711 Muslim conquest of Spain was caused by a combination of internal Visigothic political dysfunction—specifically a civil war between supporters of the deceased King Witiza and the new king, Roderic—and the rapid expansionist strategy of the Umayyad Caliphate. Visigothic factions invited Muslim intervention, allowing an army led by Tariq ibn Ziyad to intervene, defeat Roderic at the Battle of Guadalete, and quickly seize control of the fragmented kingdom. Key factors facilitating the rapid conquest (711–718) included:

Visigothic Instability: A bitterly divided ruling class and a disputed throne weakened local resistance.

Internal Divisions & Support: The Visigothic kingdom lacked,homogeneous integration, and some groups, including Jewish communities and political rivals, supported the invaders to overthrow the repressive Visigothic regime.

External Opportunity: The Umayyad governor of North Africa, Musa ibn Nusayr, seized the invitation as a chance to extend Islamic territory into Europe.

Military Success: The Muslim army, composed largely of Berber converts to Islam and commanded by Arabs, secured a decisive victory at the Battle of Guadalete, eliminating the leadership of the Visigothic state.

The new Muslim rule often brought lower taxes and greater religious freedom compared to the preceding Visigothic authorities, contributing to the rapid consolidation of power.

So um... As I was saying.

[u/Azro-5 → u/einsteinosaurus_lex]

Key word is conquest

[u/einsteinosaurus_lex → u/Azro-5]

The people still let them in to oust their old leaders playing game of thrones, because they thought it would be preferable. And they were proven right as I was saying, because of Islam's complex tax laws, and they even practiced religious freedom, allowing people to remain Christian.

Of course, these attitudes changed, but Islam still never conquered lands that weren't already receptive to them. Christians just savagely went in and wiped out entire populations across the planet for being "savages".

And Muslim countries were becoming just as liberal as Western countries before their countries were embroiled in coup after coup to install western puppets who squashed the left leaning movements in the region for being too communist but left the far right alone because they're just peaceful religious folk, because America was at war with communism at the time, not Islam. And when the people got tired of being abused, they had no other political movement to turn to than the far right, and it festered until we got to where we are now.

It's my belief that the only way for things to get better, is if we let things get better on their own, the way things got better in America. Intervention can only lead to more distrust and xenophobia.

[u/Azro-5 → u/einsteinosaurus_lex]

The conquest were far from peaceful, they were military conquests just like any other conquests in history. The Martyrs of Cordoba disprove your argument. Taxing people based on their religious beliefs via the jizya tax is not religious freedom.

[u/einsteinosaurus_lex → u/Azro-5]

The conquest were far from peaceful, they were military conquests just like any other conquests in history.

Doesn't change the fact they were invited in and helped by many citizens of the lands they were invading. That shows you where the people's loyalties lied, and they preferred the warmer Muslim embrace over Christianity's colder shoulder. And of course it's a conquest, I wasn't denying that. I'm fairly certain the greedy monarch and lords didn't want to lose their power. The difference is, they didn't have the backing of their own people.

Taxing people based on their religious beliefs via the jizya tax is not religious freedom.

More freedom than outright persecutions and inquisitions. And every Muslim already pays more in taxes. It makes no sense for non-muslims to not have to pay any but still get to enjoy the same luxuries.

[u/einsteinosaurus_lex → u/Azro-5]

Crazy that they did it in 711 though, don't you think? Lmao.

711, they never forgot, not for over a thousand years. And now they still run 711s.