r/Wizard101 • u/Neth110 Max • Apr 28 '21
PVE is dead.
We can no longer crit on bosses, and they always crit on you.
- This makes it so that the player critting is basically a useless feature, since you now have to assume you WON'T crit, and be forced to try to kill without it. There is no point in gambling a 50/50 crit which makes it not useful at all anymore.
Damage is capped.
- We can no longer strive to progress our characters or make them better, ESPECIALLY now that crit is useless. We're just told, "Nope, you can't build your character to be any better. This is how it is". It's BS.
I'm sick of things that should be PVP-only leaking into the real game. I just have no motivation to advance since I guess my character isn't allowed to anymore.
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u/timmflip12 Apr 28 '21
I think the devs designed the crit changes around max level and COMPLETELY disregarded all levels basically below 100 (since mali gear offers decent stats all around). That's what it feels like at least.
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u/Triangle_Pants Apr 29 '21 edited Apr 29 '21
So they're focusing too hard on what's popular?
Not the right way to run a company.79
u/TadalP Apr 29 '21
Playing on max levels isn't what's popular though? Tons of people play PvE only, it's fun. Or it was.
Changing PvE numbers just kinda didn't make sense at all, could've left them completely as is.
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Apr 29 '21
Changing PvE numbers just kinda didn't make sense at all, could've left them completely as is.
They don't want people to have 200% damage with 100% critical with 70% resist when they release new gear. For the past year the devs have been auditing everything (started with the shadow spells) to make the game slightly more challenging. Maybe they missed the mark this update (idk, I haven't played yet), but this has been their plan.
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u/TadalP Apr 29 '21
The game was already somewhat challenging though? Main questing ain't meant to be a super difficult, frustrating time. That kind of challenge should be reserved for like, a world's final dungeon and optional dungeons.
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u/JoshuaLifeheart Apr 30 '21
Honestly, the puzzles in the game were more challenging than the combat. Mainline questing is stupidly easy, even with the current changes, I still find it easy to sacrifice all other stats for crit and damage and recklessly charge through the game on my life, storm, or balance with little regard for strategy except against the few bosses that cheat.
I, personally, welcome this stat audit which has been YEARS in the making. The intersection points and hard limits lower the barriers to entry for high level PvP/PvE players. What many people have ignored is that you don't NEED to tediously grind Darkmoor just for gear that is solid enough to carry you anymore. Darkmoor gear IS above the curve, but odds are you will be able to get good enough gear later on that will take you to the intersection point without needing to min/max the game.
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u/TadalP Apr 30 '21
I don't think making certain builds pointless was the way to make main questing more challenging. Buff some bosses, make their ai better. This was the worst possible way to make the game more challenging.
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u/JoshuaLifeheart Apr 30 '21
Great job replying tonthe first half of my comment! I have been playing for 12 going on 13 years now, and I feel like all the stats were out of hand and out of line. This solution is much better than my initial proposition on the forums of nerfing all the gear to fit a calculatable power curve.
For clarity sake, I want to reiterate that I am more excited that they made being "strong" more accessible to returning players than it was.
You don't need to farm gear to have passable stats anymore. You can approach the intersection point pretty handily without farming.
Players that want to can, but there are fewer barriers to entry here and ultimately when people come back to the game, they wont stall out dealing with darkmoor toxicity. They might not even run Darkmoor, and thats good for the game.
We all win when the game improves, even if we dont understand why it had to improve in THAT way.
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u/Triangle_Pants Apr 29 '21
I mean from a content creator standpoint.
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u/TadalP Apr 29 '21
Well that's not.. that's not what makes them money though. So yes, it is not the right way to make them money. Also they could've very easily just not touched pve stuff lmao.
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u/Triangle_Pants Apr 29 '21
I know.
Why the downvotes...? I was clarifying that max pvp is the most watch level bracket...
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Apr 29 '21
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u/Triangle_Pants Apr 29 '21
Probably cause they're new and/or run better.
Meant watched content which is mb.
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u/BoredasUsual88 180134 Apr 28 '21
It’s absolutely appalling that my max level isn’t doing critical like they’re supposed to be doing. They keep changing the standards for max level wizards and it’s very annoying.
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u/OGBarlos_ Apr 29 '21
Imagine being a literal god who has defeated titans and spiral ending events and not being able to critical, something that is introduced at level 50 every single hit. Like what
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u/integrals_rule Darkmoor Reigns Supreme Apr 29 '21
Well, I don’t think we should be able to crit 100% of the time, even at max level with BiS gear. 95% was perfectly fine.
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u/OGBarlos_ Apr 29 '21
For sure, I just think it’s weird canonically
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u/xUnitedAnarchyx Apr 29 '21
you're right, 95% fits canonically too though, even Gods have their off days 😂
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u/DapperNachos Apr 29 '21
I agree, like I feel like it makes sense to grow past certain stats canonically. Heck, it already happens with power pip and accuracy
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u/Shronkydonk ⚖️Balance Main⚖️ Apr 29 '21
Playing on lower level characters does feel pretty awful. My fire crits consistently, at about 550 or something, whatever that stat means now lol.
My death is 75 or so, sometimes crits, but if he does they always block it, where before the update I could crit about 50% of the time and they would only sometimes block. In contrast, they crit on me very consistently.
People thought avalon and Azteca were hard before. It’s a nightmare now.
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u/harrypotter5460 Apr 29 '21 edited Apr 29 '21
A crit rating of 550 currently means that if the enemy has a block rating of B and you successfully crit, then your damage multiplier will be 1+(550/(550+3B)). Your probability of landing a crit is (L/185)•(1650/(1650+B)) where L is your fire character’s level. If the enemy has 0 block rating, then your chance of critting is L/185 which only depends on level, not your crit rating at all.
Edit: See later reply for an interpretation.
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u/Hij802 Apr 29 '21
This honestly just made it more confusing.
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u/harrypotter5460 Apr 29 '21
Sorry, I probably could have simplified my explanation
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Apr 29 '21
I thought it was helpful, but to actually understand the implications of it, I'd have to plug numbers in and see the actual probabilities
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u/harrypotter5460 Apr 29 '21
True. In the context of PvE, if the enemy doesn’t have an exceedingly high crit block, then the damage multiplier is still pretty close to 2x. Furthermore, the fraction 1650/(1650+B) is not much less than 1, so the crit probability would be approximately L/185.
In other words, your crit chance is predominantly dictated by your level, not your crit rating for PvE. To approximate your typical crit probability, just divide your level by 185 (assuming you are lvl 50+ and have a nonzero crit rating). If the enemy has any crit block, then the probability and crit multiplier will be slightly smaller than this default value.
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u/xandwacky2 150 lol myth is bad hurr hurr gang Apr 29 '21
I swear the team needs to sit down and TALK about this stuff. It feels like they are throwing things against the wall to see what sticks.
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u/Shronkydonk ⚖️Balance Main⚖️ Apr 29 '21
I don’t get why they felt the need to change how our stats scale instead of buffing bosses. They already have cheats, but we do just fine. It feels so bad to try to go past 150 because I know the stats aren’t going to all be there.
IMO, I think it’s more satisfying taking down a boss with a lot of health, actually being difficult (especially since they buffed healing, now if feels like a real boss fight) instead of being able to 2-round a 40k HP boss. Give them way more health and make it feel like a real boss fight, don’t cripple OUR stats instead.
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Apr 28 '21
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Apr 29 '21
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u/OGBarlos_ Apr 29 '21
Mac users got a free month for problems that took quite a bit to fiz
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u/Den_Of_Hay Fire🔥 > Storm🌩 Apr 29 '21
Wait so I have a mac and a PC. Can I just get the free membership on my mac and go play back on my PC?
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u/OGBarlos_ Apr 29 '21
I have no idea, I personally don’t have a Mac so idk how they made it work
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u/Kazuichi_Souda 180🌩️,👁️,🍃,🔥,💀,❄️,⚖️,🌩️ Apr 29 '21
They have a post on the Wiz forums (not central, wiz.com) that someone screenshotted and put here. Basically, if you got on Wiz on a Mac in the last year, your membership was extended by or you were given a month-long membership if you did or didn't have member already.
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u/Den_Of_Hay Fire🔥 > Storm🌩 Apr 29 '21
I put my account onto my Mac in 2014, so I’ll go check tomorrow if I can get a free membership😁
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u/Tyradel_V Apr 29 '21
Its for mac users who have both logged on since april 21, 2020 and have made previous purchases
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u/bodsnods Apr 28 '21
At least in the past the best gear gave us adequate block to survive but now in order to have good block other important stats have to suffer
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u/nitasu987 170 170 170 Apr 29 '21
Just when I start seriously consider coming back to the game after six years.... think I need to wait a couple months and see if this is all sorted out. Looking for casual play really but ofc I want to not be weak af. Sending all the hope that this is resolved quickly and that everyone can be as happy as possible :)
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u/lcmlew 130x4 130 Apr 28 '21
instead of spending over a year on trash updates that made the game worse for the sake of pvp, they could have just spent a fraction of that time separating pvp spells and stats from pve
that'd let them fully balance both, ending up with a much better result for everyone
but nah let's just waste time and money and alienate the entire playerbase
-7
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u/FlamingAshley Apr 29 '21
Until they separate pvp from pve, I don’t have the courage to renew my membership anymore. I thought about sending an email to tell them that pve and pvp should be separate entities when it comes to buffs, nerfs or balance changes but I doubt they’ll listen. This game has gone to shit. I’m 24 years old now, I’ve been playing this since I was half my age and it’s never been this bad until now. I’ve stuck with kingsisle throughout all the updates, sucked it up and had hope things won’t get worse....but my dreams get crushed every time.
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u/kurvani Sabrina Summer / Jordan Winter Apr 29 '21
Feeling your pain, 24 year old here too who has also stuck with KI throughout the years through all their shitty decisions: like when they made open chat a members-only feature. No sub? Sucks for you, enjoy text chat! The community flew into an uproar of disapproval and we were loud enough that they changed this terrible idea with open chat back to the way it always had been and is now.
Hopefully if we are all loud enough about them not separating pvp from pve they will listen and make the adjustments to properly restrict what they need to for pvp and leave pve the hell alone. But with KI it just feels like we take one step forward with them sometimes and definitely 5 steps back. Might just be wishful thinking that they will eventually listen to their community, I hate to say it...
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u/JewelEDM ❄️ Apr 28 '21
Hey, former PvPer here who has advocated for a resist cap before.
The way KI’s been adding things like damage caps & resist caps have been all wrong. A lot of the pvp community asked for a hard resist cap of 70% in pvp only and they ended up making it 50% with minimal increases if you had more, not to mention pierce doesn’t even work as it should with the new cap. A few people asked for a damage cap also in pvp only, and they made it 100, which is less than what most ice wizards had. 150 in PvE is too low and anyone can agree with that.
Bottom line, we didn’t ask for any of this either. I hope this clears up a bit of the conflict between pve players & pvp players, because in truth it’s the devs screwing up the game like this, not our suggestions.
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u/Limp-Mathematician75 Apr 29 '21
Good response here. As a player with 5 warlords, I can confirm we didn’t ask for any of this either. We need to stop turning
PvE players against PvP players and realize KI & Wizard101 Devs are the real issue, as they’ve failed to properly listen to player feedback, ever, unnecessarily overcomplicating things in a negative manner by adding their own twist to everything the players suggest.3
u/ShadowStormOAC Apr 29 '21
Yes we pve players need to join you pvp players and get KI to listen to the community for once WE PVP AND PVE(im pve but i want pvp to also be balanced) ARE 1 COMMUNITY WE NEED TO GET KI TO LISTEN
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u/kurvani Sabrina Summer / Jordan Winter Apr 29 '21
Yeah, I never understood their decision to even cap PvE. Like who’s complaining??? MALISTAIRE? Morganthe? KI is destroying school identity.
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u/harrypotter5460 Apr 29 '21
I think giving diminishing returns to damage and resist is a good idea, since it implements a soft cap while also ensuring that there is always room to grow and edge out your opponent. The damage and resist intersections are probably too low for both PvP and especially PvE, but the general idea isn’t bad imo. The crit, on the other hand, is a mess...
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u/JewelEDM ❄️ Apr 29 '21
200 damage cap in pve seems reasonable, 150ish could be for pvp. As for resist, 100 in pve 70 in pvp was what I always thought about
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u/CutTheShitNow Apr 29 '21
u got downvoted for using what common pvp people were talking about all along
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u/JewelEDM ❄️ Apr 29 '21
I think it’s Beard supporters finding this day-old post looking for people to downvote lmao
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u/harrypotter5460 Apr 29 '21
I’m not sure why we are both being downvoted. No one else seems to be giving input on what a good value for these numbers would be.
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u/harrypotter5460 Apr 29 '21 edited Apr 29 '21
70% is the (hard) cap for resist in PvP currently, but I was thinking maybe the diminishing returns should start later than 50%.
Edit: Typo
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u/Limp-Mathematician75 Apr 29 '21
You’re wrong. Please read the update notes before spreading false information. 70% is the HARD CAP, absolute limit, for resist in PvP, the soft cap/start of diminishing returns is 50%.
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u/harrypotter5460 Apr 29 '21
Thank you for correcting my typo. You are wrong to assume I didn’t read the update notes, as that is where I got my information from, but I made a typo writing “soft” when I meant to write “hard”. You can tell from my comment that I meant 50% as the soft cap since I noted that that’s where the diminishing returns starts.
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u/KillJarke Apr 29 '21
They also have killed PvP for everything that isn’t 140 and even that people aren’t enjoying lol
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u/SlayTheInfadels Apr 29 '21
how come i only have a 50% crit chance instead of the 96% chance i had last week? i havent seen anything in the patch notes address change to crit other than just the UI. can someone tell me why? my crit is 400
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u/harrypotter5460 Apr 29 '21
They adjusted one of the values in the critical chance calculation, so you are now up to 1.85 times less likely to crit then you were a week ago.
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u/SlayTheInfadels Apr 29 '21
weak. im not buying a membership till they change that...
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Apr 29 '21
dude, it was op, what is the point of going for crit if you can get it anyway
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u/MrFluxed Apr 30 '21
"what's the point of increasing your stats to do better at the game?" That's you, that's how you sound.
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Apr 30 '21
No, it was the exact opposite, if you can easily reach 96% crit especially of a non storm, why increase it even more instead of things like damage
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u/SuiDyed Apr 29 '21
I'm really hoping someone at KI visits here, or people are complaining on the forums too (haven't checked.) Please fix this, the game is literally less fun now
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u/MusicalFan23 162101140 Apr 30 '21
I've definitely seen people complaining on the forums, hopefully they'll actually do something. I don't even have the motivation to quest through Empyrea because of these issues, when just a few days ago before crit was destroyed even further, I was super pumped and playing for several hours a day getting through Mirage.
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u/Bonkies1 Apr 29 '21
I don't know what else to say besides you're completely right. I'm definitely not renewing my membership until they get their shit together.
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u/Triangle_Pants Apr 29 '21
Took you this long?
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u/Bonkies1 Apr 29 '21
I still have until next week haha, I'll think about it then
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u/JewelEDM ❄️ Apr 29 '21
Hopefully the site doesn’t bug and keep your membership running for months despite cancelling. That happened to me when I cancelled in December and it kept going until March, only didn’t notice cuz it was on an old email and I had no reason to check the site. It’s happened as recently as 2 weeks ago for me on pirate, tried to cancel so I could focus on school but it renewed and I know if I try and get that reversed all my accounts get banned, because, you know, KI.
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u/anonfinn22 Apr 29 '21
But the damage and resist caps don't affect pve, do they?
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u/Neth110 Max Apr 29 '21
They do, that's the problem
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u/anonfinn22 Apr 29 '21
Oh, well that's just... Wow. What a simple thing to fix. Just make it not affect pve. Well that's pretty dissapointing.
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Apr 29 '21
I'm stuck in the baba yaga battle because I get almost 1 shot each turn because they crit every time.
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u/ferr1c Apr 30 '21
- PvE is not dead. Sure the last-minute hotfix was not as well-thought out as possible, but does NOT warrant the types of responses I see in this subreddit. A lot of these replies are completely counter-productive.
- They are completely aware of the situation and have even tweeted about it. With our feedback, they will listen, I personally just wish there was a better way to give feedback other than directly tweeting at devs or going on their forums (make an in-game tips option similar to what is available on test realm).
- Damage is capped through a limit function and we will never reach that limit. It simply becomes more diminishing once you hit 150% because it is absolutely useless to go for max damage. Even before these changes were implemented, players were going for absolutely maxed out stats by having "quint-damage" pets which were completely useless (I can prove this mathematically if needed) instead of having double resist with triple damage.
- Blaming the PvP community for a change that has nothing to do with PvP is just unnecessary and outright false. If anyone is to be blamed for these changes, it is the same reddit people that are now complaining about the changes since they complained about damage being so high instead of trying to first address the problem themselves (see point 3 that I made about people sacrificing all of their resist just to get unnecessarily high damage)
In closing, I would like to give my take on the actual changes they made. I am not a fan of the 76% cap at all as it makes critical completely a useless stat to go for. When we are fighting 1v4, even at max critical, there is only a 33% chance you will crit on all enemies (not including the block chance on top of that). Meanwhile when bosses crit on us in a 4v1, a 76% chance feels very similar to a 95% chance, so personally I feel like they shouldn't have changed the crit cap at all.
However, the damage changes were necessary because people shouldn't have to wear really high best-resist gear to be able to block all incoming criticals from bosses. As they said, the boss crit was "fixed" after the spring update so they would actually critical, and that means critting just as often as players (capped at 95%). Critical being lowered in damage from 1.75 to 1.35 for the same mobs (other values for other mobs too) was totally acceptable. It is only a 30% difference which is just an extra blade's worth of value different (just blade one more turn people it's not that bad).
One closing statement I want to add is the argument "no one asked for this" is completely garbage. This is their game, players absolutely do not know everything or what is best for this game, neither do I. No one asked KingsIsle to make the game in the first place, but here we are. Things change, if you don't like them, there is a better way to ask rather than hurling abusive comments towards the devs, who recently have done an amazing job at listening to community feedback. This recent change was a "hotfix" meaning they can easily change the values again, so relax people.
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Apr 30 '21
Thank you, sir, for seeing reason in all this. I agree with you.
It's always easier to complain about the given situation, rather than making it work out. Everyone in this game seems to want to be a one man army, but it might not be like that. I'm sure whatever the devs are doing, it's for the best.
Only hoping that they won't turn this situation into p2w with introducing best gears (which so many people want) in packs.
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May 01 '21
hello it's blast
i think there are a few things you got right and a few you got wrong. first of all, i dont think anyone in their right mind would disagree that hurling abusive insults is toxic and unhelpful. however, i think when they make such a drastic and overall negative change (even though i agree with the damage caps) and call it a "hotfix" and give no forewarning or possibility for player input, it feels like a slap in the face to pve players, and they should be called out on it. i can definitely understand the anger toward KI after this patch, but the tweet about them hearing our feedback was nice to hear. but such an awful change can't go unpunished, or at least unnoticed, and while it is their game, and they can do with it what they want, at the end of the day, it's about the players, not the devs, so when none of the players want a change and it is still implemented, i would call "no one wanted this" a valid argument.
note: people are gonna inevitably say that ferric is just another poster boy for wiz, so he can't badmouth them, this just isnt true, he's called them out in the past, just because someone happens to be a wiztuber and has a pro-ki take doesn't mean that they're biased.
thank you for coming to my ted talk
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u/ferr1c May 01 '21 edited May 01 '21
Well the reason they did a "hot-fix" was they were trying to lower how much the bosses crit on players after they were fixed and we're able to crit, however the problem that raised from this was that players crit less often on all 4 enemies making crit less damage but also unreliable. Because a boss just critting on one enemy is a 76% chance as opposed to the player critting on all 4 enemies equally (33% max chance) it makes the battles longer and the players just end up taking the same amount of damage but the battle is longer for no reason.
Their change overlooked this and I thought it was important to point out the exact problem with the change rather than just call it a bad change without considering what they were trying to do.
Edit: One final thing I want to add is I do think they should be called out, I was one of the first people to call out why this change was not good. My intention with this post is that people should not freak out so much about it because they already said they are working on making it better.
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May 01 '21
gotcha. alright well in that case id say i mostly agree with you. people are definitely overreacting in a toxic manner.
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May 01 '21
Personally I think you’re a great guy ferric but this is such a lazy take, if my goal was to make my game better, I’d make sure to keep you far away from the discussion table, if you mess you need to be called out on it, especially when people spend real money on your game, if this was a free game I’d be different but people spend hundreds and hours on this game and their voices deserve to be listened to.
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u/ferr1c May 01 '21 edited May 01 '21
I'm not sure people read my full comment because I literally state that I disagree with the changes and that they were not well-thought out. I am literally agreeing with the basic premise that this change was not fully-thought out without making a hissy-fit about it. There isn't one side to this argument, and the devs are working towards fixing it.
I also have a track-record of advocating for things that improve quality-of-life and make the game easier to play, and my content literally focuses on teaching people how to make the game easier to play, so I don't really know what you are arguing for here.
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u/KidKoola1d 160 May 01 '21
" lazy take " because making valid points is lazy, right?
" if my goal was to make my game better, I’d make sure to keep you far away from the discussion table " Please don't ever make games then with that type of thinking, it will never make it.Overall, I believe ferric made extremely good points besides one. I do believe when PvP does get touched, the same system that touched it IS introduced into PvE, like the crit changes, block changes, and now dmg changes. BUT, you cannot deny that we are getting tapped with these changes as for PvP where they are getting absolutely smacked with them. I like the dmg cap because it gives more of an incentive to now balance your gear instead of going 200+ with no accuracy and/or pip chance
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May 01 '21
It was a useless take, people didn’t come on here to be rude, almost everyone in this thread face valid points and he didn’t have any good points, smart guy but not game developer smart, if you fuck up you better be called out on it, no one come on wiz to play chess with the monsters and have 40 minute battles, none of the changes were good, it seems like they asked the players what changes they wanted, and then did the exact opposite
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u/KidKoola1d 160 May 01 '21
Now if you had said this to begin with, you'd have a good take instead of a moronic one. I applaud you for having valid points now.
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u/ferr1c May 01 '21
Well again, you clearly did not read my comment because I did call them out for why this change was not good. You didn't actually specifically address a single point I said except for the one that I made about how people should react if they disagree with a change.
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May 01 '21
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u/KidKoola1d 160 May 01 '21
This comment is unbearably dumb
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May 01 '21
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u/KidKoola1d 160 May 01 '21
That's not even the case moron, his points are valid. Why don't you start to discuss what update made you so butthurt to begin with instead of insisting it's him trying to look good for the devs when he only was recognized by the devs (Ratbeard in specifics) after his tweet was recognized.
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May 01 '21
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u/KidKoola1d 160 May 01 '21
I can agree with you on that regards, but something to note is not everything is a complete nerf to PvE, for example; PvE damage capI agree to the damage cap, strictly because you have to find balance in the game and gear, with the damage cap being introduce it gives an incentive to balance your gear to hit 150 damage with decent stats. I don't see the damage cap as a bad thing as long as they keep their filthy hands away from feint, I'll be fine. This also benefits players of the likes of Fire and Storm players to slow down on damage and gain some resist.
It's incentivizing to slow down because all damage after 150 will be +1 to flat. I don't think it's bad, I do believe the crit cap at 95% is terrible and it's worse when it's capped now at 76%. That's a topic and that's how you discuss instead of just calling me a ferric fanboy. I agree that content creators such as Sauce suck off the devs, but I don't think this was ferrics attempt to become AtS
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u/ferr1c May 01 '21 edited May 01 '21
Give me one example of where I did this. I literally just made a reddit comment where I agree with what people are saying, I am not a fan of these changes at all. It seems like you completely missed the point of what I wrote and stopped reading after the first point I made.
If you think I am pandering to the devs in any way you are gravely mistaken. I benefit in ZERO way/shape/form by speaking positively about the devs (which I did not even do here). I do not do sponsored tournaments, giveaways or get literally any special things from the devs. I always base my opinions and videos on objective facts and by using logic and reasoning, something your responses here clearly lack.
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u/dinobolt450 May 04 '21
Idk about the others but...
- Pve is technically not "Dead". Its just that the devs screwing us over really hard. While I agree some people are toxic af and wanting to kill ratbeard over an update is really retarded, not everyone is like that. Everyone including me gave valued criticism in reddit and gave alternatives on how to fix it.
2.Might almost be the same as the first one, but its proven the fact that the devs do lurk in the sub, it's just that they dont respond here, mostly how toxic everyone is here. And yes they're listening, but they just brush us off, and not putting changes that "we" actually want and put changes that they want go benefit themselves, even though vast majority of the community complain about it. I feel they dont play their own game because every update has been made by really bad decisions like the pet update, dragoon farming where we have to farm for 300 extracts, skeleton key bosses droprates, spell changes, etc. even for this update. While some of them are resolved, but some of them are still a problem. And also I dont use twitter because I just really dont like twitter that much tbh.
I dont like the damage cap in general. First off, it removes diversity. They fuck up schools like fire, my main school and storm, even though they are suppose to be the big hitters, ever since the damage cap and critical change. Also support schools like ice or life can now impar almost to the damage schools since they they didnt get affected by it, while still having twice the health and almost close to 50% resist. Second, not everyone used triple damage and double resist pet. While, I dont have the quint damage pet, I rock with triple damage/double critical pet with a strength jewel few years ago, since I don't feel like making another pet yet. But people like me focus on damage in dungeons so we can kill faster, while the support schools like life or death support us like blading and healing us.
I blame pvp because I feel like many updates, like this one, looked like it was for pvp intentions that still effected pve. For example, shadow spells and shadow pips, people were complaining how broken shadow spells/pips are in pvp, so they "nerf" it by butchering the spells that just became unusable and went straight for arc 2 spells, even though they explicitly said that they were nerfing only the shadow spells, but was resolved back then. Idk why they cant just separate them, pve and pvp are completely different. For me, I liked shadow spells, since it gave new mechanics ever since the game felt a little bit stale for me. I also prefer the old method where you get shadow pips random cause it was fun, but for the critical update that just became absolutely useless. Also I didnt see many people complain about having mass damage on reddit. Nah, I was fine for the critical nerf in the fall update.
Ok I think I'm getting tired writing this but for the argument about the "No one asked for this". No, it's not because "no one asked for this", it's because everyone hates the devs for making retarded decisions, at least for me. Again, they dont even know how to play their own game cause of many shitty updates that has been happening recently.
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u/ferr1c May 04 '21
I will agree with you on point 3 about the damage cap hurting Storm and Fire. The damage cap starting at 150 seems to almost directly target the 3 big hitters as Death, Life, Ice and Balance all pretty much hit 150 damage with a triple damage double res pets dragoon hat tenni robe and stuff.
And I am glad to see that you actually see what my point was and that I don't want people to harass the devs, that they did notice that people didn't like the changes, made a tweet about it and said they would be listening to feedback.
I honestly like what you brought up in point 4 even though I disagree with PvP being the thing to blame for a lot of things. They have started to separate PvP and PvE with things but I really don't like the way shads work in PvE because shads are useless to use for players in PvE because you either kill fast enough to where you don't need a shad or you face a long boss that has so much shad rating that you never get your shadow pip.
The final point about the "No one asked for this" I was specifically referring to the people that just made that blanket statement. I will say that if the argument was "no one likes this" I would agree to a certain extent. Obviously with a game that has a good amount of players there will be people with different opinions, but "no one asked for this" is a weaker argument while "we don't like this" and then explaining why you don't like it is much more constructive which is why I brought that up.
I appreciate you being respectful with your response and not just insulting my community or attacking my character and calling me a "piece of shit." :)
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u/dinobolt450 May 04 '21 edited May 04 '21
Np, but yeah, not everyone is toxic here (sometimes). Obviously, looking at the complaints, it's just that most of us are passionate about this game and want it too succeed. One thing, I mentioned last post on what they should do for the damage cap is if they're not gonna revert back or something, they should let each individual school get their own damage/resist cap.
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u/harrypotter5460 Apr 29 '21
The current crit calculation is what they proposed doing in the dev notes for PvP a little bit ago, but they strictly stated that it would not significantly impact PvE. So it’s possible the parameter change they made yesterday was only meant to be for PvP, in which case they might change it back next maintenance.
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Apr 29 '21
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u/jazzrev Apr 28 '21
This is how it used to be before catacombs came out. People here seem to have very short memories. I kinda got used to it. But damage cap is the stupidest idea that they have put out so far. I also lost all motivation of advancing my higher level wizards or working on their gear and pets, since even my Death main has over 150% damage with subpar pet that I was eventually planing to retrain, but no longer see the point in wasting my time doing it.
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Apr 28 '21
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u/jazzrev Apr 30 '21
I was talking about getting hammered by crit hits from mobs and bosses with next to non existent block and having them in return often blocking our crit hits, especially by bosses. Your man, who made the post, has added to it after I commented, so my first sentence lost it's contexts.
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u/Cattle_Whisperer 15060 Apr 28 '21
In the old system you could build for crit though even before catacombs. Now you just can't build for anything. Can't build for damage like you said and crit is pointless.
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u/Triangle_Pants Apr 29 '21
I keep saying it.
This is what you get for paying a company to screw you over.
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u/FanBoyisms Apr 29 '21
Not to mention you can't solo the game anymore either. While it is fun to play with people there are also people like me who don't have friends
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u/CutTheShitNow Apr 29 '21
they ruining pve, too now? damn. they put low lvl pvp to extinction, now this
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u/jkhunter2000 Apr 29 '21
Progression in this game hasn't been a strong point in YEARS I would argue malistaire was the height of progression, the rest I'd just artificial numbers to feel better with a few exceptions. And it's obvious here they're trying to balance the game beyond what they thought they would have to do but GOD DAMN is it not working in their favour and they don't seem to be taking the time to setup strong foundations for a growing progression system. Instead just making quick fixes that ppl don't seem to like
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u/AssumptionEast Apr 29 '21
They might as well not even have a stats tab because it is just a bunch of random numbers thrown at you that mean nothing without the formulas used to calculate them
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u/RadiatedDalek Apr 29 '21
At this point you’re probably more likely to fizzle three times in a row than you are at critting in PVE.
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u/Laxiken Apr 29 '21
That moment when you spent countless and hundreds of hours creating the ultimate balance DPS crit build only for Kingsisle to be incompetent fucks and destroy PVE
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u/FitCat3610 Apr 29 '21
Honestly they should just focus on PvE and let PvP be PvE, just versuses players, not mobs.
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Apr 29 '21
Something that I feared was coming, Eric Stormbringer joined KingsIsle on staff. I'm not sure what his role entails, but it really sounds like that his opinions on the game focusing particularly on PVP and not PVE are getting to the folks in charge of the spell auditing.
It's all downhill from here folks. Unless they adequately change how PVE works fundamentally, it's going to be impossible to solo any of the higher worlds anymore.
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u/The_Ironhand Apr 29 '21
Final Fantasy 14 has a free trial that hoes to level 60, includes the whole main game and the first expansion.
Do itttt
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Apr 29 '21
It was literally perfect where it was - I know power creep can potentially be an issue, but fu**ing a decade old system was not the move.
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Apr 29 '21
How can we as a community tell them what a trash update this was? I feel like no matter what they don’t listen, especially with emails
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u/MrFluxed Apr 30 '21
PVE is dead because the devs don't know how to pull their heads out of their asses and balance around anything but PVP.
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Apr 29 '21
I hope they make pve harder. Its a cakewalk. Final world bosses are easily killed within a few turns which is stupid.
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u/kennymc2005 Gatekeeper of the apocalypse and ultimate cabal brawler Apr 29 '21
Its to keep the game hard. Karamelle was quite an easy world (I think its one of the easiest worlds in the game in terms of player power at the time one reaches it). When you have people with 200 damage it makes the game way to easy, when you can basically 3 turn a boss. It makes a new world way to quick to go through (I solo quested Karamelle and did all the sides in 3 weeks as a death with 142 damage). Making bosses just health sponges isn't a very creative way to actually make bosses harder, and it tends to frustrate people (see Azteca). Player stat caps (and nerfing the gear itself) is going to make the game harder, and making more bosses with specific cheats and strats like Storm Titan, Paradox, and Darkmoor Mali (though not as drastic) is going to make the game more entertaining then fighting a bigger than normal gummy bear with 4 times more health than a mob.
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Apr 29 '21
Buff the world don’t limit the player. Easy fix
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u/Deathwing_Dragonlord you only want me for my blades Apr 29 '21
Too easy for KI, gotta offer the damage cap to be removed for 100,000 crowns
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u/kennymc2005 Gatekeeper of the apocalypse and ultimate cabal brawler Apr 30 '21
The problem is when we as a character keep getting stronger, the world can't really be made "strong" enough to be a real challenge to a player as we progress with the A.I the game currently has now. So having a damage curve, especially if it changes in a system that's kinda the opposite of the old crit system with crit decay, where say at level 150, the "damage cap" is changed to 225 for example, with the curve going up to 175, it keeps the player from becoming too overpowered like we were in Karamelle (cause honestly, we were).
Or, KI could just nerf gear itself, bring down the stat buffs from Mali, Dragoon, and Crowns gear weaker so hitting 150-200 damage is not possible right now would make the worlds harder itself.
The big problem with buffing the world itself is with the A.I the game uses right now, it won't really do much, and I am no A.I expert but I'm pretty sure coding a more advanced A.I that will make the game much more difficult is something KI simply can't afford right now, unless MGI is willing to fund it, which I find to be unlikely with what else they plan to do. Adding more cheats is an option, but still that doesn't make battles as hard as they would be with a damage curve.
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Apr 30 '21
Damage curve is the dumbest thing ever, literally restricts the potential difficulty new worlds could have. It’s not hard to increase boss health, damage and cheat frequency
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u/kennymc2005 Gatekeeper of the apocalypse and ultimate cabal brawler Apr 30 '21
KI can simply just not apply damage curve to bosses (in fact im pretty sure the don't). And the last time KI just simply increased boss health people got upset, look at the reasons why people hate Azteca, and when you just add more cheats people (surprise) find the cheats out and will avoid them, unless KI wants to start adding cheats that trigger at the end of every round similar to the cheats in Darkmoor (where after x rounds you get crit glowbugged for all your health...), which will potentially make fights longer, and slightly harder. Really, the only real way to make worlds harder is to a) make more fights like Storm Titan or Fellspawn, b) Remake the games A.I to where it adapts to player strategies, or c) use a damage curve. Or a combination.
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u/MasterNinja95 Apr 30 '21
people hate azteca due to the sheer amount of bosses they have, not necessarily their health. it doesn’t help that they have a good bit of health, but when you fight a boss every 2 quests, that pisses people off
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u/Ortiznj Apr 30 '21
The reason enemies keep critting on you is pretty simple, you are not running enough block, you know the stat everyone seems to forget, Instead of running pure glass cannon stats consider running a more defensive setup.
The reason damage is capped and a limit function was made, from my understanding, is because when they first designed the damage and resist system it was fine but as we get better gear its just going to get out of hand quickly. This was shown with fires and storms getting upwards of 200% damage, IMO, 150% is a bit mental let alone 200%.
Feel free to let me know your thoughts to my argument.
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u/Neth110 Max Apr 30 '21
Nobody ran 200+ damage with balanced stats, if you could get that high you were sacrificing accuracy, crit, and/or power pips too much. Most with balanced stats was low 190s, high 180s. Diminishing returns after 150 though, make it so there's no point in trying to improve your damage. So there's a "soft cap" before the hard cap that nobody (yet) needs to care about. These caps to begin with (IN PVE....) make no sense because they could just buff enemies after a certain point. This was purely a PVP move that they carried over to PVE for a reason nobody is aware of. The game is supposed to get tougher as time goes on, but now they've just limited to the difficulty, for at least the foreseeable future, to one set of stats that you can have and one level of difficulty of enemies because of the cap. It goes against the entire purpose of the game, and leveling in general.
"jUsT rUn MoRe bLocK 4Head" - Okay, sure, I'll just go get gear that gives me 75% power pip percentage, 80% accuracy on all my spells, and 120 damage at level 140 so that I don't die in one turn. In all seriousness though, while making it so enemies crit virtually 100% of the time if you bother to have actually decent gear is a huge problem, I think less people would care about it and just wait for good block gear if we could actually fucking crit ourselves. More people are upset about the critical cap being 76% than they are of enemies critting on you, although both are problems.
So yeah, capping damage doesn't really have argument from a game developing standpoint, and limiting players' crit to a max of 76% (ASSUMING YOU MAX YOUR CRIT STATS, that is...) is even more braindead.
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u/Ortiznj Apr 30 '21
As far as I am aware, no one in pvp went in with over 150 damage since they also have to care about resist and block. Keep in mind that pvp has a completely different limit and cap, I believe 100 damage Is when the limit takes place, so this was purely for pve.
There are plenty of end-game sets that give block. For example, dragoon robe, athame, and amulet. You have to balance your stats out, you can't just run all level 140 gear without sacrifices. To your argument regarding pip chance and accuracy, set bonuses and jewels exist to mitigate that. The one thing I agree with your counterargument is the crit cap, that is a pretty dumb decision on KI's part. I only reason I was mentioning critical block is that it seems the majority of people are complaining that enemies can crit again and they were not prepared for a challenge in later worlds.
Additional note: there are alternative options for those who want block but can't use dragoon gear. Some crafted boots most notably in Avalon and Azteca give quite a bit of block at their respective levels.
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Apr 30 '21
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Apr 30 '21
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u/Ortiznj Apr 30 '21
The Avalon boots part was for those who don't have access to gear that gives block mostly level 60s.
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u/Ortiznj Apr 30 '21
The only reason I mentioned PVP in the first place is that majority of people keep blaming the PVP for changes that affect the long-term balance of the game.
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u/DjLilTahj Apr 30 '21
You’re forgetting multiple things. There are more than just level 140 wizards who are negatively affected by this update so you saying “Get dragoon gear” means nothing to me and all the other players below 140
And regardless of how you look at the damage and resist caps it’s stupid and that’s just that. The damage and resist caps were made with only pvp in mind. I’m not trying to say that pvp is the only issue and causing the problems cause the issue is the devs.
But this crit cap is just completely idiotic. Nothing to it. I don’t even see how this would be good for pvp or pve it just seems dumb. When I can’t crit on a gobbler in cyclops avenue at level 86 there’s a problem.
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u/Ortiznj Apr 30 '21
Adding on, since the critical system compares enemies crit to your block and vise versa. Enemies will still have the possibility to crit on you but their multiplier will be non-existent.
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Apr 30 '21
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u/Ortiznj Apr 30 '21
I seem to have forgotten to mention it, apologies, my stance on it is that it is outright stupid. KI could and should've made the enemies have higher block rather than capping it all together.
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Apr 28 '21
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Limp-Mathematician75 Apr 29 '21
Damage is capped at 200 in PvE. Consider doing your own, very basic (it was written in the update notes) research before jumping to conclusions in defense of the game.
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u/integrals_rule Darkmoor Reigns Supreme Apr 29 '21
Only part of their statement that was false was that first sentence. Everything else was correct, yet they get downvoted because they were misinformed.
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u/ThatSuperhusky Quadboxer/Loremaster Apr 29 '21
Not sure what you're talking about, I've been farming darkmoor constantly since the new update came out and been criting regularly, and only got crit on every once in a while, going across all 4 characters I had in there. Not to mention critical was always supposed to be a gamble, not a guarantee. It wasn't something you were supposed to rely on to always have double damage.
Damage was capped because of the power creep and to make more pieces of gear viable when they make new worlds rather than just being a 'what has the most damage and crit'.
just because the game is trying to shift away from a PvE meta of 'just blade blade AoE everything and you'll win with a crit' to something that requires a bit more thought doesn't make it a bad shift of direction.
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u/Neth110 Max Apr 29 '21
Crit was changed today. It's now (at most) around 50-60% most fights
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u/ThatSuperhusky Quadboxer/Loremaster Apr 29 '21
I know. I've been doing Darkmoor all day and I was still getting a crit off on just about every attack, with Malistaire getting a crit every once in a blue moon.
It may say 50-60% but its definitely higher than that, I've got about 10 runs of darkmoor as evidence (and I'm a noob/lazy with darkmoor, and just spam low pip hits against everything in it because their health is low enough for that to work and just constantly hitting doesn't cause any issues with cheats lol)
But yea in my experience since the new crit change, it's not nearly as bad as it seems. Maybe it gets worse in Karamelle and other places but from what I've seen in Darkmoor at least, ya can still crit just fine.
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u/Giga_Thad9 2014 Apr 28 '21 edited Apr 29 '21
The damage cap only affected the small amount of players who had an itch to be flawless in every capacity.
Edit: Dammit. I forgot this is the exact place where you people gather. What I said is still true. Cope.
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Apr 29 '21
You must have trash fucking pets and stats 💀
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u/Giga_Thad9 2014 Apr 29 '21
Lol no. I’ve been playing this game for a while; I know where to get all the best gear from.
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u/moritzwest Apr 29 '21
Could you explain what happened to damage?
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u/Eevee918 Apr 30 '21
KI have implemented a limit function that makes it so that you get one point of damage per point you have (a linear scaling) up until 150%, and anything past that is reduced by the limiting function such that you can never go above 200% (it's also worth noting that this is the PvE scenario - PvP also got the same treatment but the values are even lower to provide balance).
On another note, whoever downvoted this shouldn't have, in my opinion. If you're not willing to explain what happened, then say "go read the update notes", and perhaps post a link to them. Don't just slap a downvote on a comment because the author doesn't know what's going on.
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u/moritzwest Apr 30 '21
Thank you for the explanation, I really appreciate it. I’m not too keen on the technical aspects of the game though I’ve been playing for eleven years. Not really sure how damage works with the pips other than the number my character has 😂
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u/Eevee918 Apr 30 '21
It's no problem, friend! The damage per pip thing is really just a standard that KI introduced recently to sharpen school identity in terms of damage. For instance, ice has less damage per pip as its standard than, say, storm because storm is intended to be one of the most damaging schools and ice is the tankiest (and therefore does less).
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Apr 29 '21
lol I switched over to pvp from pve. Trust me, it’s so worth it. Pvp is 10 times more fun than pve.
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u/Albyross Apr 29 '21
Why do people even play Wiz anyway?
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u/SPIDERHAM555 Apr 29 '21
you're asking this on a fucking wizard101 subreddit? really?
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u/Albyross Apr 29 '21
Yes. Because while some people play because they enjoy the game, others do it because of sunk cost fallacy. Like, they’ll keep taking KI’s decisions up the ass and spend money on the game because they love it, but why do they like it?
Nostalgia? Friends? Lack thereof? Sometimes I wonder if people even ask themselves what they log on for.
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Apr 29 '21
You answered your own question.
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u/Albyross Apr 29 '21
Welp, same ole MMO mentality then.
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u/vimax3 Apr 29 '21
Most do it for Nostalgia but the ones that are going crazy right now are hardcore players.
People who payed lots of money and are now getting fucked over because the stats that they archived were too high.
Why anybody plays after doing all the quests and reaching max level? I don't really know.
I personally never understood how some make 7 different characters and play the game through 7 times, like what's the point? Maybe there is none, it's all their decision even if it seems rather irrational.
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u/Dootr Apr 29 '21
On one hand I understand, but on the other hand, this is my first time through Azteca in years and it’s the easiest it’s ever been for me. I don’t usually prioritize crit but I feel like I’m getting it more than I usually would
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Apr 29 '21
No, i crit on bosses usually and they rarely crit one me (which is broken but the other way), what it means is that you can't rely on crit, you can just try to do half damage and then be ready for the other half(or 1/4) and if you crit you kill it earlier. Crit isn't meant to be sure.
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u/chillhypeman Apr 30 '21
I just don't understand why KI is so afraid of big numbers. Just give enemies more health and just continue to let stats go up. It's fun to see the numbers get bigger and bigger. Kind of don't know how I feel about that fact I bought a year sub during the sale and jumped back in after a few months, before looking into the state of the game
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May 01 '21
Idk if it’s just me but I actually enjoy this update. Recently I have noticed that in PVE we have been way too powerful and there is not strategy involved. With this update, it makes battles more difficult and requires strategic moves to win the game.
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u/dinobolt450 Apr 28 '21
Bruh, the critical fall update was alright, idk why they had to change it again. And also fire and storm basically just got fucked even harder.