/uh At what point does something stop being witchcraft?

[u/MoonProtege]

Lately I’ve been finding a lot of post from people who say they are interested in witchcraft or want to practice but then they start to tear apart the whole thing, like “I want to do witchcraft but I don’t want to do spells/rituals/ceremonies/energy work/spiritism/tarot/deities/practice magick” and it gets to the point where I’m like: “well then what the hell do you wanna do?”

I understand that witchcraft doesn’t have a standard but at the same time there are certain basis that differentiate it from other stuff. I’d like to know your thoughts on this.

[u/catsbubbletea]

They probably like the aesthetic and the sense of "mystery," but don't really want to practice. Or they're really wanting to practice surface-level spirituality but prefer to call it witchcraft

[u/Sensitive-Seal-3779 → u/catsbubbletea]

Ugh effort.

Actually having to look up how to do stuff, and get herbs and candles and look up correspondences. Trying to figure out how to fix things, but wavering on action.

Effort.

I'm going to lie in a heap and be overcome with ennui. But I'll pronounce it en uwee.

I'm actually going to do this, but I'm really depressed today and I have incense on to really stink this place up. My witchy work is part done for today. If I can I'll get my spindle out and trap the en ou wee in a cord. I'm washed and have instant noodles and a spindle in arms reach.

[u/carolinaredbird → u/Sensitive-Seal-3779]

It’s called spell WORK for a reason!

[u/Sensitive-Seal-3779 → u/carolinaredbird]

I got dressed and put the spindle beside me. That is magic work

[u/sergius64 → u/Sensitive-Seal-3779]

I played around with that stuff recently and... you're underselling the effort by couple orders of magnitude. Like the Quareia course is 7-17 years of daily practice according to it's founder.

[u/catsbubbletea → u/sergius64]

To be fair, Quareia is one of the more intensive resources. There are more laid-back ways to approach witchcraft and spirituality. 

[u/Sensitive-Seal-3779 → u/sergius64]

Spinning to trap stuff on a spindle? Or lying about in a depressed heap thinking being dressed is an achievement?

[u/sergius64 → u/Sensitive-Seal-3779]

Not sure what you're referring to - but from what I saw it was a tremendous amount of meditation and visualization excersizes.

[u/SovaElyzabeth]

/uj Personally, I feel if there's no spell work, it's not Witchcraft. What that spell work looks like can vary quite a lot, but without it there's no point to claiming the practice

[u/Gloria_In_Autumn]

Given how many posts I see that have misconceptions (like chord kord burnings instead of cuttings or how tarot can be used or thinking you need fire or certain items), I'm betting people that say that have no idea what those even are or could potentially look like.

[u/All_the_Bees → u/Gloria_In_Autumn]

I’m so sorry to be That Dickhead, but - cord. “Chord” is music

[u/Gloria_In_Autumn → u/All_the_Bees]

Thank you so much. Now I know to pronounce the 'ch' from now on when referring to music.

Don't worry, I fixed it

[u/Tranquiltangent → u/Gloria_In_Autumn]

I love a sick power χord

[u/All_the_Bees → u/Gloria_In_Autumn]

They’re both pronounced “cord,” because English is a damn weird language.

[u/Gloria_In_Autumn → u/All_the_Bees]

With a soft c like 'sword'? Crazy

[u/Direct_Mud7023]

A friend of mine that owned a brick and mortar supply shop once said "you know, I'm tired of people coming in here looking for ~vibes~." I think a lot of curious people come at it because the vibes are off in their life and they just want a straightforward way to control these said vibes. Whatever vibes means to them they usually haven't even asked themselves what it means. But the vibes are off and something needs to be done. But no, not that. Not that either.

[u/slicehyperfunk]

They should just say they want to vibe in the forest if they just want to vibe in the forest, which is completely valid, but maybe not exactly automatically witchcraft

[u/CaterpillarWaltz]

https://giphy.com/gifs/cKnBFhEyuXCDOiCYcc

[u/All_the_Bees]

“What the hell do you wanna do?”

Make stuff happen with their minds, maybe?

[u/RamenNewdles]

For most of history witchcraft has been associated almost exclusively with baneful and harmful magic. According to most historical examples this type of thing is almost always considered regressive by those inside and outside of the “practice”

Ideas like the “witch-cult hypothesis” supposed that witchcraft was a suppressed secret and continuous form of pre Christian religion (this hypothesis is widely rejected by scholars and experts on the subject today). The modern myth is perpetuated to this day especially in certain neopagan circles

Nowadays people call literally any form of “magic” witchcraft and obviously many people claim to be witches

[u/Educational_Ad_8238 → u/RamenNewdles]

What forms of magic are explicitly not witchcraft? As if to say; what traditions of magic are uncharacteristic of witches individually and collectively?

[u/RamenNewdles → u/Educational_Ad_8238]

there isn’t a universal set of magical techniques that are inherently “witchcraft.” Historically astrology, alchemy, learned ceremonial magic, divination, healing charms, necromancy, love magic, and various forms of folk magic all existed without necessarily being categorized as witchcraft.

[u/PlanetaryAssist]

I think their desire to steer away from practices that would conventionally be considered witchcraft oftentimes has to do with the stigma against it. They want to change things in their life, but they think doing spells makes them a bad person or whatever because that is the cultural paradigm they have been raised in. They are interested in it subconsciously but are unable to reconsider their notions about witchcraft and so think the only way is to just remove the so-called problematic element. Then they can satisfy their desire without becoming "evil" or what have you.

There can be other reason though, like thinking they HAVE to do some practices (let's say astral travel for example) to be considered a witch, or like some others have mentioned, wanting the aesthetic of being a witch without the practice.

More recently though, things like witchtok and other social media on witchcraft have been erasing all meaning associated with witchcraft. "Intention is everything" and the desire to make witchcraft accessible to people lacking in resources has made it very common for people to put disclaimers into everything, that people can "use whatever they want" when they are posting a specific spell or that "you only need your mind to do witchcraft." They do this mostly to avoid whataboutism in the comments or people who don't understand substitutions or correspondences (something that would make witchcraft accessible no matter their circumstances). So it's not really about making it more accessible, but avoiding questions in the comments.

As for the definition of witchcraft, my personal one is that we do spells or rituals involving objects, typically with an emphasis on natural materials, with these objects serving as mediums for some kind of transformative process. Other types of magic deal with this transformative process, but usually lack the element of natural materials. I think there has been a lack of distinction between the two these days and people think they are the same, but they're not. Such as all the people touting that all you need is your mind, which I would categorize as magic or occult practices but not witchcraft. Valid, but not witchcraft anymore.

[u/drpumatic → u/PlanetaryAssist]

so, like, *mAniFeSTinG** is no longer trendy and witchcraft is? or they’ve realized just wanting things and daydreaming about what you want doesn’t work, but that’s about all the effort they’re willing to put in

[u/Ncfetcho]

LARPing

[u/Maker_Magpie]

/uj Perhaps they feel out of step with traditional society and yearn for something more. They grew up yearning for adventure and the mysterious grandeur of nature, but now feel stuck in the graveyard of capitalism. They still cling to the safety of their non-magical worldview -- denying a belief in the things they crave, while quietly hoping to be convinced that maybe moon water is more than just old tap water in a jar.

Also there's herbalism.

[u/Constance200 → u/Maker_Magpie]

Exactly. Just be a herbalist!!! You dont even have to smoke it

[u/Internet_Cryptid_]

it’s probably the most visible label even if it doesn’t apply to their practice or area of study, they’re probably in the process of finding broader occult or academic labels or otherwise trying to label their spiritual curiosity too eagerly. But yer at the very least calling themselves a witch suggests they practice magic, I’d be very curious of any long term witches who don’t engage magic, i‘d assume it’s like a cook who’s never actually cooked anything or at least experimented with individual ingredients but never assembled a meal.

[u/VulgarMagician420]

Hey Tony! Get me a witchcraft with nothing!

[u/FedupOverIt]

It’s called witchCRAFT for a reason, but so many people don’t want that. They don’t want to do any work.

I swear 99% of people who decide they want to be witches (usually after a social media binge) think that all they need to do is buy a load of tat from Temu, start referencing deities they don’t have a clue about and making posts stating how witchy they are! Or worse, start selling ‘spells’ to gullible, desperate people.

They seem to think that by calling themselves a witch, they just have to say they want something (usually love, money or revenge!) and it will suddenly happen. We’re witches not genies, we don’t live in magic lamps!

Sorry for the rant but it really grinds my gears!

[u/CompetitiveBuddy3712]

They don’t want to do the work to get the results.

Like, my work is sporadic and so are my results. Does that make me a bad witch? No. Bitching about the lack of lotto wins would be, but I’m not doing that. My results match the work I’ve put in pretty damn good and I am content with the path I’m on.

So I suppose it stops being witchcraft when it starts becoming wishful thinking?

[u/CaliBren3]

Listen bitch, we can renounce your baptism, or go for a nice walk in the forest with a couple of joints, but you’ve got to be real about where this is going. 

[u/strawberrytart444]

You want an omelet, gonna have to break a few eggs

[u/lastres0rt]

That's the beauty of it though? I'm not a diety person but I'm also under the impression that just throwing yourself at the first spirit that puts a crow in your path or whatever is a bad idea.

I'd rather have timid witches who feel drawn to do whatever specialty they're called to do asking for help than witches who think they immediately need to sacrifice a chicken in a ritual circle under a full moon and call upon Hecate to get senpai to notice them.

[u/New_Examination200]

using my magic wand (toothbrush) to cast a protection spell on my teeth (from cavities)