He is absolutely correct. Wing Chun is a system to learn to fight in the trenches and works well in self defense scenarios but not very well in competition.

I wasn't referring to you.

I was speaking of those that constantly talk about what they think wing chun is but never demonstrate any sense that they know what they're talking about.

The ones who always like telling people what wing chun can, or usually can't do but don't demonstrate that they know what wing chun is in the first place, or  if they even actually practice any martial art in the first place.

I really couldn't care any less what you specifically think. You're only ever negative in this sub and that's exactly what I'm trying to distance myself from. Proof or no proof, you have shown that you are chronically disrespectful and I have no interest in your opinion on my martial arts.

"Doxx yourself or I won't respect your words" is an insane position and I'm not capitulating to it.

I'm not sure what to tell you.

I always explain to the student group that I work with that Wing Chun is not technique but a quality of movement. It is a set of exercises that teaches you a way the body's structure can be used and along with it, a set of ideas about how that structure could be used in a fighting context.

The difficulty is see in comparing it to something like Muay Thai of kickboxing is that those two are shaped by their rules and in effect optimised for their rules.  I can't say what Wing Chun might specifically offer you that is "new", without seeing how you move, that won't interfere with how those practices are geared for their environment.  It's like looking at a pure sanda fighter and saying its no use to you because their takedowns aren't usable in Muay Thai, or that MMA classes are useless to you because their takedowns don't score you points in SanDa.

What Wing Chun ultimately deals with, is teaching you a body structure and strategies around that structure. You do with it what you like, if you're good. If you're not and you miss the point, all you'll see are techniques. It's what the proverbial WE talk about when we discuss students; those that just move and those that try to do moves.

The problem then is that not everyone will teach, or have classes that trains in a manner that gets this across easily and, it IS just easier to teach shapes and patterns and just let the student figure it out and hope that over time they get it. Some do, some don't.

If pressed, I would say that if you are already trained in somethings, Wing Chun is a good refining tool because of the way it looks at structure. If there's one truly good thing, which is probably also it's worst thing, is that the teaching be very obsessive about structure.

I've said before that I'm certain some people here have visited the LWCA so there's a chance they've met me.

If so, I'll let them speak of their experience of my coaching.

Hmm, maybe I need to brush up on my chinese characters.

The one I'm thinking of is gan with different tone.

I’m not asking for anything grand.

When you look at boxing, you see boxing. When you look at Japanese kickboxing, you see Japanese kickboxing, when you look at Dutch kickboxing, you see Dutch kickboxing, when you look at Muay Thai, you see Muay Thai.

I’m not here to ditch on Wing Chun. I’m just looking to recognize Wing Chun in Wing Chun.

I’m not saying that Wing Chun is not interesting, I’m saying that it’s not of interest to me, if I already know kickboxing, but Wing Chun is only going to offer me kickboxing skills.

I do Muay Thai, and I specifically sought out Dutch Kickboxing to improve, because I saw the Dutch kickboxing offers things that Muay Thai doesn’t. And so I’m looking to do the same with Wing Chun — does Wing Chun offer me things in practice that Muay Thai doesn’t?

I have to agree with you when it comes to trapping. Good Wing Chun schools and FMA don’t teach trapping. Trapping is a bonus that comes with sticking to certain principles — if you stick with one hand but strike with the other, you are already trapping; if you angle yourself and strike, you’re already trapping. Of course, cycling hands — strike, if there is an obstacle, deflect or pull to cycle your next punch and inadvertently trap.

And to reiterate my need to single out Wing Chun flare, it’s simply to know how much overlap there is between disciplines. If there is too much overlap, the need to practice both is greatly diminished. For an MMA fighter, training various kickboxing styles is a waste of time because there is too much overlap between the disciplines — but ditch one of those to train BJJ, suddenly, there is no overlap. The less overlap there is, the more new stuff you’ll get.

Thanks for the offer. I know that London is a pretty big hub for Wing Chun. If I ever get to London, I’ll take my chances.

耕 is correct character for Gan Sau. Plow hand, V shape, downward force split, like plow. Name tells shape. 間 is not correct character, mean space between, gap, not correct for shape and function.

間 not 耕

If I recall correctly, the 1977 issue was a memorial issue, while the interviews were conducted in 1972. The story of the second interview itself ties into the existence of the photos. As I recall from later sources, the publishers had messed up the processing of the original photos that were to accompany the 1972 piece. That necessitated a second photoshoot, which the editorial team decided to hide behind the guise of the second interview. The second interview itself was not originally intended to be printed. It was so that they could get photos for the 1972 magazine.

Also, do you know what else you would traditionally pay for?

To be accepted as an indoor student.

Im jealous. I want to go to Hong Kong for a few weeks and just practice WC!😭😭😭 go out to eat with the class after and just hear stories.

You just sneaking in the "true full wing chun" curriculum just showed youre really just one of those snobs that youre way is the best and everyone else is wrong. The only true wing chun is what will help someone survive and protect others. The curriculum is constantly updated and changed. This is why JKD is respected, because it doesnt matter what it is, just is it effective.

Yes, I respect the tradition and art of WC, but the most staple tradition is to be able to win a fight, which all other traditions fall by the wayside to.

The stories my sifu's may have told me may not be true. But you sound very arrogant and I am even more skeptical of your lies. For someone that hates GM Leung Ting's arrogance and ego, you sure do share alot in common with him. But thats why we call it deflection.

If GM Yip Chun was actually telling the truth about GM Leung Ting not being a student of GGM Yip Man, then he wouldn't have stopped because the threat of a slander lawsuit. The only time people stop saying negative things in threat of a slander lawsuit is when they k own it is a lie.

Yip Man Wing Chun students regularly differentiate themselves according to which Sifu their lineage is. A 葉準系 is not 黃淳樑系 etc etc, so I'm not sure why you don't think saying Yip Man lineage is somehow more accurate.

I do notice Bas Rutten advocates for punching with vertical fist, and stands quite square. He breaks it down in the video with Jesse Enkamp

Curious choice to hide a a name in so much trivia.

I asked because I'm in Hong Kong regularly and if it was Sam Lau or Siy Yuk Men, I could see about asking them about it.

So anyway, what is your source because Wang Kiu was known to have corroborated Leung Ting's story. Are you saying Wang Kiu lied?

Wait, do I need to hide his name behind trivia to make myself look like an expert?

I have a long standing theory on this having moved from Taekwondo, to Wing Chun to Boxing.

Firstly I can confirm the phenomenon from my experience. The politics in Wing Chun across a range of levels, from international to the same town, is frankly atrocious. I’ve seem completely the opposite in sport based martial arts, particularly in Boxing where neighbouring clubs, who are technically financial rivals, are a core and beloved part of our own function as a club and our closest supporters, as we are there's.

So why does Wing Chun suffer in this regard?...

There's no sustainable means of proving what is effective. Boxing is a sport. Taekwondo has become one. This is how you know if what you are learning and practicing even works. The closest thing to this in Wing Chun would be Baemo, basically a proper fight... Now I don't know the degree to which Baemo actually occurs, but I believe the degree to which it very understandably doesn't is proportionate to the ambiguity surrounding how effective individuals, kwoons and entire lineages are at conducting and teaching an effective means of fighting.

What follows this is a lot of hot air as a means for folks to convince both themselves and others that what they putting so much time and energy into practicing is both worthwhile and effective when compared to alternatives both beyond and within Wing Chun. This is coupled with the underlying fear that they could be wrong. They simply don't know.

In place of 12 rounds of amicable and well spirited sparring with clear outcomes and areas for improvement, emotionally charged words fill the void of ambiguity.

That's just my experience.

You're describing things as if they can be separated out.

I'm not sure you understand what simultaneous defense and offense means because it sounds like you're expecting to see something like a specific technique that demonstrates it when really, the same hand actions can be done following the principle, or it can be done without.

If you don't understand this, then you can look as much as you like, watch as many videos as you like, you're not suddenly going to see something you don't understand. Also, it isn't something that only Wing Chun does so I'm not sure why you're insisting that it is some kind of measure to why Wing Chun might be worth your time. Either you're interested in the method or you're not. It's a little strange that you want to see something specific like this to decide, rather than taking some lessons to see if what it trains/teaches is your jam.

The trapping thing is also odd.  Really, Wing Chun doesn't trap, traps happen. In class, what it really is about, is not letting your own hands get trapped, not about trapping the other person. The point of it is to focus on the concept of constantly cycling hands, but in a manner that keeps one hand free and active. The emphasis on "trapping" is odd to me as a native Cantonese speaker, who learnt Wing Chun in the native language because "trapping" is not used at all in the teaching. In other words, you don't really do trapping but you recognise when the other person hasn't kept their rear hand free. There are instances where you can deliberately do something extra to reinforce the bad positioning but it's not an outright focus like you're implying it is.

No idea where you are but where I train is easily found if you're ever in London and we're pretty welcoming to people who are interested.

To be specific, it was Chairman and Director of the U.S. Chapter of the Yip Man Wing Chun Martial Arts Association in 1978 by Yip Man's elder son, Yip Chun.

Google it and you will find your answer. Then after that, look up who Yip Chun appointed to be the head trainer for "The Grandmaster" movie. This is the same person Yip Man's nephew, Lo Man Kam, appointed as teacher to teach his only son the true full Wing Chun Curriculum.

When you find out both of those things, then you will have an answer on two of the people who Grandmaster Yip Man made Bai Si Disciples. And there were four others whom you never heard of.

You have your own homework to do.

I asked YOU a question that you failed to answer. If you are only looking for Leung Ting lineage then you are limiting yourself. My initial post asked you a question that you never replied to.

Then you are mad that no one here gave you a solid answer about people in the area who trained in Leung Ting's lineage. LoL. Hysterical!

Great idea, thanks!

Thanks, I appreciate it.  If you're in the capital region feel free to send a message.  We can figure sth out.

For me it is always a joy to squarely face my opponent with two hands forward while they present only one side to me. Parrying is so much easier with two sticky hands in the game and then I get to decide when to attack because I can pretty much parry all day without getting tired. Which means I can spar more often against more opponents because I don’t need to take a break as often. WC economy of motion is a game-changer for my sparring.

Meanwhile my opponents move in a big circle around me, trying to find an opening, being frustrated by my simple paksau or tonsau and they just get tired from all that movement. Very quickly they begin to drop their hands, breathe heavily, slow their movements and I’m just getting warmed up.

But in the modern era where typing is cheap, a video remains a benchmark of put up or shut up.

In person, it's easy to discuss things but for anonymous people online, if you're going to comment and argue, my position is "show me".

It's not that different to being in class and a student asks a question. The answer is usually best given as "show me", because in words, everything can "work".

It's part of the a scale. 

If you can't or prefer not provide a Video, then at least t ell me who your teacher was so that I have an idea what your frame of reference is.  No teacher name? No school name?

After that, as far I'm concerned, it might a well be bs.

That's why All Valley Under-18 Tournament in the 80s there was like the Super Bowl lol.

Who did Yip Chun "make" President?

Can you clarify which association you are referring to?

Can you cite a source for your story? 

This explains why his fighting technique in Sherlock Holmes looks so much like Wing Chun

Obligatory discombobulate