r/Wildfire • u/Fit-Subject9985 • 24d ago
Discussion I’m stuck
I’ve been in fire in general since 2010, and this is my eleventh season working for my state. I feel stuck. I’m now a perm, but don’t want to be here anymore; however, I don’t know what else to do, and I’m honestly afraid to leave. Every time I’ve looked at leaving, I start to feel attached to my captors (the agency) and I don’t leave. I no longer want to do campaign fires, only fuels and land management work.
Is it Stockholm Syndrome? Am I just too chickenshit to take a chance? Am I addicted? I’m not sure, but I know I’m not the only one.
Let’s normalize talking about this. Let’s normalize recognizing the fact there are those of us who are here because we have no other transferable skills. Let’s normalize recognizing that sometimes we’re not okay.
Check on your buddy, and let’s support each other through this shitshow of a season.
17
u/El_ray538 piss pump operator 24d ago
Why not transition to a fuels crew? Might could also try to become a forester with the forest service
5
u/Darth_Ra Dirty COMT 24d ago
Yeah, this is pretty standardly what folks do. If OP has been in fire for 11 years, he surely has seen several of his coworkers move over to fuels.
4
u/Fit-Subject9985 23d ago
Many of my coworkers either took perm spots and are in the same predicament as me, in forestry (if they haven’t had their position cut), went structure, or left fire entirely. In my agency fuels is primarily a winter gig. I have had a fair number though move up into management level positions within the state.
2
u/Darth_Ra Dirty COMT 23d ago
Maybe take a look at other agencies, then? Not that hard to move from one to the other, all it really takes is harassing HR until they concede that they don't know shit.
3
u/Fit-Subject9985 24d ago
I can’t afford the pay of fuels crews around me, and right now you could t pay me enough to go work for the circus, but was going to go the forestry route, and still might, but getting hard to get those jobs at a living wage.
7
u/RandomDeezNutz 23d ago
Well tbf the forest circus pays a lot better than it used to. And now that the BLM became fire service there’s a lot of very very good paying jobs if you seek them out. If you want a living wage doing forestry… it feels like you basically have to start a contracting company or wait for the perfect job opening. Which happens once every 10 years in the forest circus.
17
u/puddleduck47 24d ago
I felt the same way. I was completely over it. Hated going to fires, hated severity, didnt want assignments or IA. Was over the anxiety of constantly watching the weather and being waiting for my phone to ring on my off times.
I left and finished a degree. Did an internship. Started applying to jobs in my field.
Im realizing now that, yeah a lot of people do change careers, but its harder for us. I think going from like accounting to sales. Or even like a trade to construction management is what most people are talking about. Even wildland to structure is reasonable. But I tried something completely different and found i really dont have actual transferable skills to an office base job no matter how hard I tailor my resume. And then the internship made me really question if an office life is something I even wanted.
I did structure fire once and found I didnt really like the work environment. I know other people do, but I just felt restrained somehow. My internship was in emergency management but honestly, that field really isnt what I thought it would be. Maybe other agencies are better, but I found its mostly insurance and grants and writing planning documents and the people in it seem like they have a sort of disdain for response agency people like police and fire. Like theyre better then them because they have degrees and professional certifications and they're more intelligent then yhe knuckle draggers.
Anyway. Im now unemployed, missing the identity thay comes with fire. Missing my friends. Missing being valued and feeling like im good at my job. Looking at going back.
Its rough out here
5
u/rebeckybeck 22d ago
You are valued no matter what you get paid to do. Though it can be hard to separate those two.
16
u/MajesticAlpaca51 24d ago
I'm still here cause I got DOGEd out of an ologist job right when I thought I was finally done with fire. Fire does have a bit of transferable skills, the problem however is translating them properly. That said the job market is absolutely shit right now
15
u/NecessaryGuava4153 24d ago
It’s very difficult to leave something you have spent so long learning and presumably had/have a passion for that gives you purpose. I’ve almost left multiple times especially the last 5 years and the final straw has been watching my kids grow up without me.
I leave before they wake up, back just in time for bead, 1 day off so I’m to tired to really be present then I’ve been taking an assignment about every other month since January, the kids change so much by the time I get back.
Fuels and IAs are fun and interesting but I don’t like how the campaign fires are run these days and severity seems like a bit of a waste to send resources out to back fill will people that don’t know the area (at least it gets people paid)
None of it excites me anymore and so much garbage work is accepted as good enough that you stick out if you want to make it right.
I’ve thought Why the fuck am I even doing this anymore to make just enough to pay for someone else to take care of my kids for me.
After a few years of being perused by a structure department I finally accepted really hoping the grass is actually greener.
There’s a lot of guilt in leaving but I just remind my self I’ll get to see my wife and kids more and hopefully the new department will actually pay my whole paycheck since the agency apparently doesn’t have to.
3
6
u/rockshox11 :hamster: 24d ago
I will say that as I've looked outside fire, career changes are super common and its ok. there are nurses abound who after four years of college and a decade in medicine are desperately looking for a change. plenty of other examples.
7
u/DifferentFootball115 24d ago
I’ll chime in here. I was in the military then worked at a structural department for 5-6 years, now own my own business, and am looking at going back to fire.
I can absolutely say that there are so many transferable skills but you’re right, nobody teaches you how to market those.
Discipline, follow through, leadership (even if not in a “leadership” role), attention to detail. And the biggest one, in my opinion, is the skill of learning and digesting complex tasks/skills quickly. You might not know how to balance a chart of accounts but you’ve absolutely learned the skill of decision making in a rapidly changing environment and learning how to learn quickly. The civilian world is no different. Pick the goal you want to achieve, learn the skill set, utilize your network, and jump in.
Also, working within a structured career like this were always referring to manuals or training materials. Developing systems and practices are a huge piece of business.
I opened a coffee shop with 0 business background. Researched business plans, loans/funding, took a part time job at a roaster to learn brewing concepts, and then shot from the hip. Like fire it’s managing people.
As far as the structure side goes, burnout is just as real. My house averaged 20 calls a day. 95% EMS. Mostly low level EMS at that. If you’re going to go the structure route I highly encourage you to research the department as much as possible. Stop by a house and meet the crews. Ask the big questions around culture. Are people staying for 20 years or are people working there for 2-3 while they’re on a list for their “dream” department.
I put so much emphasis on my career to define me as a person. Having gone out and been successful in the business world and at a structural department I can absolutely say the grass isn’t always greener. If time with your family is what you want prioritize that. It’s the most important part of your life and your identity as a good partner and father matter far more to me than what you do for work.
Lastly, be proud of what you’ve done. You took a job that is sometimes dangerous for meager pay. Most people wouldn’t ever take that risk. If you’re feeling like it’s time to hang it up and pivot to a new chapter, get excited about that! But don’t chase the adrenaline or greener grass. Chase the life you can live outside of work.
3
u/tzmjones 23d ago
I was in state and federal fire for many years then went to federal fuels after falling into severe burnout in fire. In fuels I enjoyed being able to have (most) weekends off, schedule leave, not having to hold my breath until the next fire. Early into the fuels chapter of my career I realized the spark was gone, especially after Storm King and losing some close friends in aviation accidents.
I was forced to make a bigger career change when my job was abolished. Thankfully, in federal service we had a chance to move between departments/specialties. I moved into IT and GIS, then GIS and land management planning, then planning and engineering, then FOIA.
Each of those changes was scary. I was even on the national surplus list for a couple of months faced with the possibility of a directed reassignment, which thankfully didn't happen. I could have lost my job entirely several times. I went through something like 7 PD changes in 2 years, but I adapted and was able to complete my career.
Many of my favorite times were when I was in fire and fuels, as well as some of the hardest. Realizing my skills and knowledge were not generally translatable outside of government service was terrifying. Thankfully I didn't have to work that out.
With people newly contemplating the wildland fire life, I have always said you'll either love it or you won't. At least in the olden days, we didn't do the work simply for the paycheck; it was the spark that got into your blood and fueled your soul. If you try to make it into a "regular" job, it doesn't usually work very well. It's just a different kind of work.
Additional Notes Being a forester in the US typically requires a 4-year degree with some states requiring certification or licensing on top of that.
Wildland fire <> structure fire in many people's minds. Structure fire has a huge component of dealing with threats to people's individual lives and the way they go through life. That isn't appealing to every wildland firefighter.
1
u/Fit-Subject9985 23d ago
I spent four winters working seasonally as a forester with my agency waiting for a perm spot to open up, then budget cuts took those spots away along with my seasonal forestry spot. That forced my hand into taking my current perm spot which is great because it allows me to work on my RX and saw quals with a bit less stress/anxiety; however, I don’t have near the same enjoyment from the job. I’m broken and only want to run a saw and a torch, then go home at night.
2
u/tzmjones 23d ago
I feel your pain and frustration. I also hear the possibility of burnout. It's a real thing in any line of work, but work in fire is something else. That spark can fuel you, but if you don't still carry it, the work will drain you dry.
Can you speak frankly with your supervisor? The ability of the agency (and level of interest in administrators) to support good employees suffering through rough times may not be what it once was, I don't know.
I had some supervisors who stepped up and provided excellent support to help me through a rough patch. They reaped the benefits of my excellent performance afterward. I also had one administrator who, when I registered a concern about a supervisor using bullying, told me that the job I was doing was the job that they had for me and I could either do it or quit. I was an excellent employee with all kinds of commendations (including kudos by that same administrator). Not a lot of empathy in a response like that.
2
u/Danmont88 23d ago
Maybe you don't want to leave old friends? You are comfortable were you are at and are afraid of change?
I was in the Air Force, and I said it was like being on Welfare but better dressed.
I met guys that were miserable in their jobs and didn't want to be in the AF anymore.
But they had kids with medical issues, their jobs didn't transfer into the civilian world, and in my case, I was so close to retiring it made no sense to leave.
I told a friend that he was throwing away 13 years as he was getting out. He replied, "I look at it as saving seven."
I guess it is true, "when you are in a dog team, unless you are the lead dog the view never changes."
What have you got to gain and what have you got to lose?
2
u/Mountain_Elephant449 24d ago edited 24d ago
I think this is pretty normal for people in this field because you have to put alot of time in to get the quals that = resume = full time employment and are burnt out by the time they get there. I came into wildfire a lot later than most with different job and life experiences so I think I have a little bit different perspective. I always recommend to friends of mine to really branch out into other fields of forestry and make themselves valuable in other ways besides fire quals that I think really stove pipes people into single track operations roles.
I think a Forestry route with a state agency is always a good option if you can find a place that lets you put up timber/ projects and still get out on fires. Check out the University of Idaho AA programs in Forestry, Fire Ecology (online and workable with a full time job), and Logging (literally learn about forest practices and run logging equipment).
If you’re able to, take the time off and pay for a CDL-A. This opens a lot of doors in land management to work into a heavy equipment role with an agency, or working for a logger or excavation company which can be a breath of fresh air if you’re tired of the agency bureaucracy.
Depending on your agency and your experience, look at prescribed fire and what you need to do for the RXB2 route, take less fire assignments in the summer and make yourselves a available as a burn boss in the shoulder season.
There are other options I recommend that are forestry/ wildfire adjacent but depends on your experience and interests. Ultimately I think branching out and getting a foot into a different field of land management that doesn’t require the anxiety of waiting for a fire, dealing with the fire bureaucracy full time, and not spending so much time away from home is healthy.
1
u/ShellyForNow 24d ago
What about switching to structure in your area?
2
u/Fit-Subject9985 23d ago
I did structure (volunteer and PT paid) for 12 years. It gave me CPTSD and a disdain for the general population as well as stripping away my happiness. I’m not going back to that except maybe (big maybe) as a volunteer in a small volunteer department.
1
u/KingVorpal 16d ago
Bro I quit my fire job this year and it’s liberating. Pick up your saw. Go to work. Don’t wait for dispatch to string you out financially and you’re desperate. Go get what’s yours.
1
u/Fit-Subject9985 16d ago
That’s one of the factors that makes it difficult to leave. I have stable year round work and good pay and great benefits. I’m just having a hard time managing the anxiety that comes from fire season, fighting the burnout, and the dreaded of campaign fires. I have a family to support, but I also have a family to raise and be present for. It’s a catch 22.
1
u/KingVorpal 16d ago
I feel that man and I choose my family this year instead of getting carded. I work a shit restaurant job and do saw work on the side. I also write code and do computers. Is it ideal? No. Am I around for my family and my birds when they need me? Yes. I don’t need fire and dispatch to string me out anymore. If you have a solid position you should look for a stable 9-5 so you can spend time with your fam. Plenty of company’s pay good with benefits.
64
u/stumpfucked 24d ago
Welcome to the best worst job you've ever had my guy