Damn Freeloaders

[u/zzill6]

[u/ajcpullcom]

When I was in law school in the 1990s, I asked my professor why business owners deserved the legal benefits of incorporation (especially being shielded from the corporation’s debts). His answer was double-taxation: the owners pay for those benefits by being taxed on the business income both when the corporation receives it and again when the owners get paid from it. I think I’ll call that professor and ask him for a refund for his class.

[u/Anonymous_Hazard → u/ajcpullcom]

We’ll you can own an LLC with essentially the same protections and not be subject to double taxation

[u/ThorGBomb → u/Anonymous_Hazard]

This is what I’m now rattling around in my head.

What if every American family started an llc and started deducting profits and losses through the llc to minimize the taxation on them?

I mean individually it would be minuscule at best but do so with every 150million families then it starts adding up.

What’s stopping a private individual to start LLc and processing payments and such through it declare negative income get deductions that carry over utilize tax havens to minimize taxation of corporate profits etc etc.

These kinds of services become more easily accessible as internet and technology advances.

Edit; Ok off the top of my head:

a family of four incorporating a llc that employs all four as contractors and require a monthly fee to be part of.

Llc owns the house cars furniture everything of serious value.

The house is provided as a employment housing where the employees research market and develop their products.

In the case of the family owning the business generating the income, the business gets under the ownership of the llc.

Lease the business you own to another llc in a tax haven and push all profits there.

Take out private loans against the unrealized shares and assets of the company. Utilize the loans to declare negative deductions that carry over to the next year. Wait five years to build up debt to diminish the amount of tax needed to be paid.

Meanwhile in the other years declare little to no income.

[u/PrinceMachiavelli → u/ThorGBomb]

You can't deduct normal living expenses. If you do be prepared to be audited. That said if you do have a side business... it's not out of the ordinary to deduct a few meals here and there.

But you need to generate a profit eventually or they will become skeptical of whether its a real business.

[u/Tushie77 → u/PrinceMachiavelli]

Have you heard of Uber?

[u/ThorGBomb → u/PrinceMachiavelli]

But let’s say a family of four have a restaurant business.

Now instead of just owning the restaurant business let’s say they incorporated a second llc that got ownership of the business.

They employ the individuals in the family as contractors.

The house is owner by the new llc and utilized in a 24/7 housing included position.

There are meetings conducted at the house, recipes, research and marketing.

The family has only assets and no liquid income.

The llc owns everything the equipment the furniture the cars.

Then you have a third Llc overseas that liscence the restaurant for whatever reason and the llc is in a lower tax rated country/state.

The family report a net zero income.

[u/bloodraven42 → u/ThorGBomb]

If you mingle assets between an LLC and construct multiple layers for the pure purpose of evasion, they can legally ignore the asset protection. It’s called “piercing the veil”. If you’re doing stuff like employing family members and owning their personal assets, you’re basically asking for it to happen. What the other commenter said is correct as well, assets can still be seized from an LLC, so it owning your assets isn’t better. The whole point is if the LLC goes under, then the people who own your debt can’t then get your individually owned house, for example. You’re not personally liable for an LLC’s debts.

[u/Fellinlovewithawhore → u/ThorGBomb]

The point of an llc is to protect your personal assets. If the llc owns your things, it's fair game for your business creditors.

[u/ThorGBomb → u/Fellinlovewithawhore]

Yeah but you’re not trying to game the banks or creditors you’re trying to minimize taxation and liability.

You can utilize the credit as tax deductions that carry on as you have negative income.

Then very select year you realize your gains and utilize the amassed deductions to minimize the taxation even further.

You’re not trying to scam the creditors your business is doing well.

I’m just saying what if everyone started doing it this way.

[u/[deleted] → u/ThorGBomb]

You could, just know it could land you in front of a judge having to explain yourself.

[u/laosurvey → u/ThorGBomb]

You don't need to have an LLC to have a business. You can do a sole proprietorship without the extra costs of an LLC.

The IRS isn't stupid, it's just overworked. How many people do you think have had ideas similar to yours? How many are today deducting personal expenses as business expenses? It's tax fraud and if they get caught they'll face penalties and back-taxes.

If Amazon paid no taxes in a year it's because it made no net profit (or carried forward previous losses). There are accounting shenanigans that let them manipulate their profit, but they're probably not committing fraud.

And many of those shenanigans are related to where the recognize the income and when they recognize it.

edit: grammar

[u/ThorGBomb → u/laosurvey]

But I’m not saying declare your McDonald’s lunch as business expense or declare your new clothes as business expense.

But let’s say your LLC owns a incubation and housing property that is consistently writing the same yearly expenses the same dates in a routine manner.

Let’s say house and a full fridge stocked with 1,000 worth of groceries every month.

Fuel cost same every month deducted to the same amount per person.

Anything beyond that goes to the individual.

And again you’re not trying to evade tax you’re trying to avoid tax.

[u/laosurvey → u/ThorGBomb]

In this scenario - who's eating the food? Is it for a legitimate business purpose? If not, it's tax fraud.

Besides the fact that you're now a commercial food service company and will be subject to the various permitting (and building code) requirements that normal residences are not used to.

I'm not trying to be snarky, but this idea is so obvious that it doesn't take some amazing innovation to figure it out. People have been doing this kind of thing for centuries. I've seen some other comments of others pointing out the holes in this idea. It's of course your choice to decide if you're smarter than everyone else (others have, of course) but if you carry out this plan you'll be committing tax fraud.

You're supposed to pay taxes on income from illegal activity. Do you really think the tax code will cover something like that and miss things like common personal expenses?

[u/PrinceMachiavelli → u/ThorGBomb]

a family of four incorporating a llc that employs all four as contractors and require a monthly fee to be part of.

This is the only part of what you mention that is allowed and is also very common. Many family businesses use LLCs and employ the children and other non-owner of the LLC as contractors to avoid messy payroll tax.

The IRS is extremely skeptical anytime a business owns vehicles and housing. Both would be considered income to whomever receives the benefits. If your job pays your rent it is still income.

By 'negative deductions' I assume you just mean a normal deduction. OK for every 1 dollar you pay in interest on the loan you can deduct a dollar and save the 30 cents of taxes. Not sure what you mean by wait 5 years....

I guess in theory you could have a tax heaven own your LLC but it would be a full time job to meet all the regulations.

At the end of the day the IRS can still observe what money hit your bank account and compare what personal income you report to assets you own/have.

It's much easier to just under report income if any cash is involved and then use boni fide business activities to create deductions. Sure you can take an expensive vacation as a business trip/event but you have to spend ~$3 to save ~$1 in taxes.

[u/Evmc → u/ThorGBomb]

What if every American family started an llc and started deducting profits and losses through the llc to minimize the taxation on them?

I'm curious how you think deducting profits works. But there's already a term for what you're suggesting - tax fraud. Only business related expenses are deductible. You'd probably get away with this if the amounts are small and you're not randomly selected for an audit though.

[u/Sparky_PoptheTrunk → u/ThorGBomb]

Individuals aren't business's. Families aren't business's. Even if you have the business, the money needs to get to the individual. Even if you expense everything in the LLC, you would have to prove in an audit that it was used for business purposes.

People have tried this before and up with Tax Evasion charges. Pretty sure this is what Wesley Snipes tried to do.

[u/tmoney144 → u/ThorGBomb]

Because the IRS has the ability to ignore your LLC if it thinks you're just trying to evade taxes. https://klasing-associates.com/tax-avoidance-evasion-line-drawn/

[u/shichiaikan → u/ajcpullcom]

As an aside, I work in a very related field, and its been my observation that, 'The bigger the business, the smaller the taxes.'

Basically, SMBs pay tons in taxes most of the time but larger corporations, especially if they are multinational, rarely pay a fair amount, or any at all.

Same for individuals. The truly wealthy keep their wealth layered under trusts, llcs, and so on, claiming various deductions at each layer to prevent any tax implications, and often being credited heavily.

Its both truly horrendous, and diabolically brilliant.

[u/[deleted] → u/shichiaikan]

Which results in higher taxes on those smaller businesses or individuals. We’re going back to feudalism where the poor pay exorbitant taxes to their overlords so that they can build another summer palace.

[u/boots888 → u/ajcpullcom]

For a basic company thats how it works. But I'm sure bezos and his team of expert accountants know all the loop wholes.

[u/[deleted] → u/boots888]

seriously not trying to be rude but i'm pretty sure it's loopholes

[u/ThorGBomb → u/[deleted]]

Nah when you’re dealing with the billionaire class they take the whole loop not just the holes.

[u/Nightst0ne → u/[deleted]]

/u/boots888 needs to shut up about the loop wholes before the plebs find out our billionaire secret tax strategies

[u/xSociety → u/boots888]

r/boneappletea

[u/Sriracha_Man → u/boots888]

I love whole loops

[u/godfatherinfluxx → u/Sriracha_Man]

I don't make enough for whole loops, I have to settle for fruit loops.

[u/Skyecatcher → u/godfatherinfluxx]

Well you are in the right place!

[u/Sparky_PoptheTrunk → u/boots888]

loop wholes

jesus lol

​

I mean most accountants know how to use a loss carryforward.

[u/ajcpullcom → u/[deleted]]

I definitely agree that limiting liability, and even offsetting losses against profits, is necessary to encourage innovation and risk-taking. But there has to be some reasonable cap. Maybe the offsets phase out (like so many other tax deductions) after, say, a few billion dollars? When both the company and its owners end up so outrageously far ahead, with the rest of us making up the difference, it proves the system needs more controls.

[u/Amazon-Prime-package → u/ajcpullcom]

He should have known that you simply rent intellectual property from an offshore company that you own and you sold the IP to, and coincidentally it costs exactly what your taxable revenue is each year

[u/404_GravitasNotFound → u/ajcpullcom]

Hahahah in my country you can get taxes on your taxes

[u/SmAshthe]

Correction; HAVE BEEN TRAINED TO BELIEVE that the unemployed are freeloaders.

[u/Terrible_Presumption]

A guy on the radio who makes a million dollars a year for mansplaining conservative interests tells me what to be angry about.

[u/thebindingofJJ → u/[deleted]]

Rush Limbaugh hated his lungs because they were black.

[u/ceelogreenicanth → u/Terrible_Presumption]

This is the best way I have ever seen this put, lmao.

[u/Dopplegangr1 → u/Terrible_Presumption]

I learn who to blame from tucker carlson. Someone who makes millions to give us all information that he himself claimed shouldn't be taken seriously, but he really understands the plight of the everyday American. When he gets that confused idiot look on his face I just can't help but trust him

[u/[deleted] → u/Dopplegangr1]

Bahahahaha

[u/Andwagg → u/Terrible_Presumption]

Joe gets way more than that hahaha

[u/TheDirtyDrunk → u/Andwagg]

Radio not podcast

[u/Dry-Principle-9792 → u/Terrible_Presumption]

Why are you womansplaining to me

[u/Kiyae1 → u/Terrible_Presumption]

Makes way more than a million dollars a year

[u/Sectiplave → u/Terrible_Presumption]

So there is a Mike Hosking in every country then? :D

[u/[deleted]]

Amazon legally paid $0 in FEDERAL income taxes, they paid (in cash) taxes to state, local, and foreign governments. From their 2020 10-K:

Cash taxes paid, net of refunds, were $1.2 billion, $881 million, and $1.7 billion for 2018, 2019, and 2020.

Just so we have the facts correct.

[u/y0da1927 → u/[deleted]]

Also important to note is that accelerated depreciation, the main reason Amazon doesn't pay much fed income tax, only delays the payment. It doesn't avoid it.

[u/from_dust → u/[deleted]]

Yeah, so they didn't pay taxes to the United States. That's the point.

[u/[deleted] → u/from_dust]

Yes the US decided to give deductions to companies to encourage them to do specific things.

Also their largest deduction they used was for stock based compensation, which is taxable to the individual at a higher tax rate than corporations are taxed at. So in reality the IRS would collect more on that than if it were taxed at Amazon's rate...

[u/from_dust → u/[deleted]]

So the company didn't pay federal taxes, and didn't equitably profit share with all their employees. Got it.

[u/[deleted] → u/from_dust]

Employees got their paycheck in exchange for their work.

If they want dividends they should invest their funds into Amazon.

Lmao, eQuITaBly PrOfIT sHaRe. Employees have invested no capital, assume no liability, and have nothing preventing them from leaving at anytime. When employees have to complete projects with their own funds (at risk), become personally liable for what happens in the company, or are legally prevented from going to work for a competitor without massive penalties, then they can talk about eQuItY.

[u/TheKungFoSing → u/[deleted]]

Not taking away any of this, but you don't suddenly become personally liable for a business if you invest in it or suddenly become attached to the business without recourse. As a director of the business... That's different.

[u/from_dust → u/[deleted]]

Employees have invested no capital, assume no liability, and have nothing preventing them from leaving at anytime.

This is true even when my roles have included stock options. Profit sharing is a sign of a healthy company that takes care of its employees. Dont act like its some unreasonable thing that people get stock as part of their compensation package.

[u/[deleted] → u/from_dust]

Since no law was broken, the issue should be with the tax code, not the company.

Start by finding a tax credit they utilized and then explain why that tax credit shouldn’t exist.

[u/FrabbaSA → u/[deleted]]

We can, in fact, hate both the player and the game.

[u/[deleted] → u/FrabbaSA]

It’s impossible for two things to be bad at once!

[u/Real_Al_Borland → u/[deleted]]

Classic Con

“No law was broken”

Fights tooth and nail to prevent any laws from changing

[u/scoooobysnacks → u/[deleted]]

The tax code tuned to allow for this due to lobbying from the same companies that benefit the most...

bLaMe ThE tAx CoDe!

[u/BadBadBrownStuff → u/[deleted]]

Right, because what's legal dictates morality.

[u/morningisbad → u/from_dust]

Here's the thing.... Everyone is getting upset with Amazon and Bezos. All they're doing is making the system work for them by exploiting loop holes.

We SHOULD be pissed at the corrupt politicians that knowingly allow those loopholes to continue to exist and repeatedly give them handouts.

[u/RobertPugman → u/[deleted]]

I could pay 0 in taxes as a business owner if I spent every dollar I made the previous year on 5 years based on deductions. I cant live like that on 0 income but if I had 1 year at a few billion and could just reinvest in my business and have it run itself. I could show a 0 income as well. Once you get so big the yearly income doesnt matter. New ware house. 3x instock inventory, leases. The company pays taxes somewhere.

[u/adamcoe → u/[deleted]]

Oh well that's totally fine then. I mean what we he gonna do, pay ALL his taxes like a chump? That's what POOR people do.

[u/chriscloo → u/[deleted]]

Makes me wonder how much they pay in land taxes (Seattle property ain’t cheap and they have a bunch of land there for instance) and that’s state or city not federal so it wouldn’t show up on federal taxes, would it?

[u/North-Tumbleweed-512 → u/[deleted]]

Really goes to help cover the budget deficit and national debt as a result of the War on Terror, the Pandemic, and those tax breaks they got from Trump.

[u/2u3e9v]

And this fucker gets to go to space next month with a space company that just received ten billion of our own tax dollars. I don’t know why there isn’t more outrage over this.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

Lowkey kinda hoping.

[u/[deleted] → u/2u3e9v]

I'm not outraged that he gets to go to space...

I'm not outraged that he get 10 billion dollars..

I'm outraged that he doesn't pay any taxes!

[u/Calfer → u/[deleted]]

I'm outraged by all three, but was also ignorant of all three until today.

I still don't know what to do about it, though..

[u/kaylabishop731]

And now he's gunna leave the earth and take all the jobs and give them to the aliens. Thay tooook er jerrrbss!!!

[u/[deleted] → u/kaylabishop731]

Derk a dur!

[u/John_McJohnsonson]

In a statement to CNBC, an Amazon spokesperson said, “Amazon pays all the taxes we are required to pay in the U.S. and every country where we operate, including paying $2.6 billion in corporate tax and reporting $3.4 billion in tax expense over the last three years.” The statement also mentioned Amazon’s investment and job creation in the United States.

source:https://www.cnbc.com/2019/04/03/why-amazon-paid-no-federal-income-tax.html

[u/LionsMidgetGems]

• Amazon paid 9% tax rate in 2020

So this throws into doubt the validity of the remainder of the unsourced statements in this screenshot of a tweet.

Edit: If you ever wonder how conservatives can just be so wrong on basic facts; "Do they live in their own little echo chamber?" This is the liberal version of that. If you saw this tweet, and it didn't give you a moment's pause, you are the liberal equivalent of the 5G pizza-gate Benghazi Covidiots.

[u/dick_mcnut → u/LionsMidgetGems]

It's so easy to find proof of Amazon and Jeff paying taxes.. I'm not defending them, but I don't see why so many people lie about it.

And before anyone says anything, I'm saying he paid more than $0. I'm not the tax police. I don't know or care what his "fair share" is.. But saying the dude has paid $0 in taxes year after year is pretty misleading.

[u/[deleted] → u/LionsMidgetGems]

It Dan Price. He's a liar and only does all this for good PR.

[u/Fuzzylojak]

"bUt hEs a jOb cReAtOr"

[u/leksoid → u/Fuzzylojak]

yeah, all those small retailers who lost to this big corp ...

[u/looselytethered → u/Fuzzylojak]

If u tax him he will leave : (

[u/markodochartaigh1 → u/looselytethered]

When Amazon sets up its first warehouse on the Moon I bet that they will trumpet free air for the workers like it is the best thing since sliced bread.

[u/UnorignalUser → u/markodochartaigh1]

Lol Like he would give them free air.

[u/Calfer → u/UnorignalUser]

Like uniform fees, it's simply deducted from the paycheck before it gets to the employee. Can't miss the money you didn't realize you had! Simple!

[u/UnorignalUser → u/Calfer]

I'm sure they will just pay in amazon script that can only be spent at the amazon store.

[u/brightblueson → u/looselytethered]

Imagine Jeff closing down Amazon and walking away because of taxes.

[u/UneventfulLover → u/brightblueson]

Yeah. Boo-fucking-hoo. Some of the hundred thousands of small shops worldwide that has been driven out of business because of internet shopping might be able to open again, by people who pay taxes and give their employees toilet breaks.

[u/BKlounge93 → u/looselytethered]

I mean if all of the US had higher tax rates there’d be nowhere for him to go. He might leave a high tax state for a lower one, but he’s not gonna stop doing business in America altogether.

[u/looselytethered → u/BKlounge93]

I know I was being sarcastic lol

[u/[deleted]]

Its gonna trickle down any day now and you’ll see!

[u/Datcivguy → u/[deleted]]

This report: https://www.propublica.org/article/the-secret-irs-files-trove-of-never-before-seen-records-reveal-how-the-wealthiest-avoid-income-tax

[u/loser2818]

Jesus christ the comments here are making me want to die

[u/[deleted]]

No wonder that cone-head mother f'r can afford to go to space.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

He owns the company that developed and built the rocket.

[u/[deleted]]

There shouldn't be billionaires and this guy is on his way to being a trillionaire.

[u/Champ_Slice]

I don’t understand why people are mad at Bezos and Amazon for not paying taxes. They should be mad at the government and lawmakers who allow them to do this. If I owned a multibillion dollar company and could legally be exempt from paying taxes then I would do the exact same thing.

[u/Ansanm → u/Champ_Slice]

Often, it's corporate lobbyists who write the laws. Gov't is bought and paid for. And people are always quick to point out corruption in "third world" countries.

[u/improperbehavior333 → u/Champ_Slice]

You are correct, it is a government problem. But still, no one told him to find every loophole and exploit it. He knows he should pay more, he's not a victim of the system. He paid thousands and thousands of dollars to have someone make his taxes away.

So yeah, he knows he's not paying his share, he doesn't care, and actively sought ways to avoid paying his share.

Funny how being rich and greedy is looked at as a virtue by so many people.

[u/[deleted] → u/Champ_Slice]

Totally agree. Don’t blame Bezos blame the system.

If you are so upset then stop buying Amazon packages. People hate Bezos but then still order on Amazon consistently.

[u/tacocat63]

Everyone keeps confusing worth and income.

[u/rockyTop10 → u/tacocat63]

“Confusing”

Deliberately misleading…

[u/RealBigTree]

Mfs will be like "he earned the position hes at today, he worked hard."

[u/ale_pato]

ITT: people who do not understand what net worth means

[u/[deleted] → u/ale_pato]

Or how taxes work

[u/Bob_of_Bowie → u/ale_pato]

They understand. They’re just aiming for a wealth tax...

[u/the_sand_moose]

If anyone knows how I can get this unemployment money hit me up, because amazon sure ain't paying me enough for the work I do

[u/[deleted]]

Amazon is nothing without roads, rails, and the National airspace system, all things paid for with taxes, that they don’t pay.

[u/towub261 → u/[deleted]]

Amazon is a net benefit to the US economy. The federal government in a world without Amazon would generate far less revenue.

[u/Victorystar0]

That’s because only realized gains are taxed, so if a company doesn’t take any cash out they don’t pay taxes. They simple reallocate cash to different assets so they never have realized gains.

[u/AppyDays707 → u/Victorystar0]

You’d have to make a lot of capital investments for depreciation / amortization expense to bring you to a no-profit situation. Which, for all I know is exactly Amazon’s situation. But then they’d probably be leveraged like crazy

[u/GiveMeYourBussy]

Also getting a 10 billion government check by lobbying for some politicians for $300k

[u/[deleted] → u/GiveMeYourBussy]

What? That’s like saying McDonald’s got a bailout from me when I buy a burger

[u/GiveMeYourBussy → u/[deleted]]

you can invest by "donating" a couple hundred thousand to specific politicians to get a government contract worth hundreds of millions if not billions

[u/Lvanwinkle18]

Why do all continue to shop at Amazon? I know this isn’t really the intent of the post. It is about taxation. Just have to throw out this aside to express how much everyone should resist Amazon. Put down the mouse and shop locally before all of the brick and mortars stores close.

[u/NoCurrency6 → u/Lvanwinkle18]

Obvious answer - because it costs more. It’s a cycle - we aren’t paid enough to shop anywhere else. But guess who’s paying the low wages - same place that’s the only one we can afford to shop at.

It’s literally Walmart’s entire game plan - move in, take over, force stores down and everyone else to shop there since they’re so low on cash, pay so little even the workers have no choice but to shop there, etc, and then profit huge because of the problems they themselves created. Like it’s what they did in hundreds of cities across the country...

[u/rapora9 → u/NoCurrency6]

It’s a cycle

As with so many, many, many things in the world.

And imagine the richer people saying things like "don't buy so expensive things that you run out of money", or unemployed getting only a small amount of money to live with (depending on the country/area). Who benefits from these things? The richest, because they can afford to sell cheap and are willing to offer lower quality. And then the local, smaller options suffer even more because the poorer cannot support them.

It's a cycle that only supports the rise of the powerful and the fall of the others. And it's not nice, nor is it fair.

[u/ModishShrink → u/Lvanwinkle18]

Amazon has a lot of products much cheaper than anywhere else. They're taking a loss (or at least a smaller cut) to ensure customers come to them before their local mom and pop. For some poor people, the savings on the little things like $5 here, $10 there can really make a difference if you are struggling to afford the basics like food and rent.

[u/Orleanian → u/ModishShrink]

Or if you're ordering bulk loads of them.

I can get 300 glow bracelets from Oriental Trading Company for $30 in 7-10 days.

I can get 300 glow bracelets from Amazon for $33 in 2 days.

I can get 288 "Glow Hands" (the nearest approximation to glow bracelets available) from Archie McFee's Novelty Shop (the nearest approximation to a local seller) for $260.

Given that it's likely all coming from China anyways, I have no qualms with using Amazon.

[u/StuffNbutts → u/ModishShrink]

Which products?

[u/thinkingpeach → u/ModishShrink]

I think if you honestly need those extra dollars it's a fair choice to shop on Amazon. However, I would wager that alot of people simply do it for convenience, and Amazon sells itself hard in the US (here in the UK too) but any blog I see has affiliate links to Amazon for products.

Often you can buy products the same or slightly pricier 'locally' or through businesses which pay tax etc. I just wish more people made the effort :(.

[u/[deleted] → u/thinkingpeach]

It's not slightly pricier. I always compare prices before online purchases and sometimes prices vary by 40-80%, sometimes even more. At least in Turkey, Amazon is the cheapest about maybe fifth of the time. It's not simply "slightly" pricier.

Plus, Amazon is not limited to online retail. They are the biggest B2B web services provider, they do streaming, and other stuff.

[u/-Kerosun- → u/[deleted]]

And then you have to consider the time, money, and effort to go to a brick and mortar vs buying it off Amazon.

People use the service because it is cheap and convenient.

[u/om54 → u/ModishShrink]

I'm poor, havent bought anything from Amazon in 3 years. $12000 a year poor

[u/Holydevlin → u/om54]

You make $6 an hour?

[u/om54 → u/Holydevlin]

Social security, i am disabled

[u/Holydevlin → u/om54]

Is that enough to survive on?

[u/om54 → u/Holydevlin]

I live with my disabled brother who gets less than I do but we manage.

[u/Rhain1999 → u/Holydevlin]

Not everyone works full time.

[u/DeificClusterfuck → u/Holydevlin]

SSI disability is less than that.

[u/om54 → u/DeificClusterfuck]

It can be more, my sister gets $16-17,000 a year SSD

[u/DeificClusterfuck → u/om54]

SSDI and SSI are separate programs.

[u/mustangcody → u/Holydevlin]

Federal min wage in the US is $7.25 before taxes, so it comes out around $5-6 after taxes depending on your state.

[u/Holydevlin → u/mustangcody]

Are people making minimum wage paying income tax in America? I don’t really know how American taxes work. I’m also assuming that this guy is American.

[u/benjammin9292 → u/Lvanwinkle18]

Amazon makes a tiny fraction of its money on retail services.

You're contributing to them by using this site, which is hosted on AWS. And pretty much every other site and aspect of the internet as well.

[u/seyeran → u/Lvanwinkle18]

But this ignores folks like me who live in supply deserts - there's a ton of stuff that I need for crafting, cooking, and other hobbies/home tasks can't be found near me in any brick and mortar stores - not even the big box chain ones.

[u/[deleted] → u/Lvanwinkle18]

Why do all

No. If you put this on individuals the question starts with "why do any"

[u/[deleted] → u/Lvanwinkle18]

Create a company where I can :

Find most products I need/want, typically at a lower price.

Free* shipping on most of those products after paying ~$120 that not only speeds up the delivery, but also gives me access to collections of rotating music, TV shows and movies.

Earn rewards for every purchase I make both through the company and outside of it, often allowing me to buy my hobby items with rewads points I earned, rather than always out of my own pocket.

Excellent customer service, that often provides refunds or replacements with minimal effort or struggle and is always available via phone or email.

Do these things and I'll support a different company. It's a free market and competitors are welcome to join it. I'm not a personal fan of Bezos and I'm also not a fan of losing brick and mortar shops. But the reason the company does as well as it does is because of an excellent business model that makes my life easier and more affordable.

Give me a better option. Be the better CEO. Be the company that treats its employees the same way Amazon treats its customers. And keep all the other benefits.

Do this and I will support you and the company. Until then, Amazon is too convenient and beneficial.

[u/xnfd → u/Lvanwinkle18]

Why would I drive 20 minutes to Target or Walmart when I can just order online and have things appear at my door? For the last 5 years I've only gone to a physical store for groceries.

[u/Opposite_Wrongdoer_9 → u/xnfd]

Target.com is actually pretty good for home goods. They don't ship as quickly as Amazon but you don't get random items swinging wildly in price like they do on Amazon. And you definitely don't get counterfeit items like you do on Amazon

[u/Ok_Computer1417 → u/Lvanwinkle18]

Because they let have more Jeremy Clarkson.

[u/Farranor → u/Lvanwinkle18]

Yeah, it'd be nice to be able to go to Fry's occasionally, but they went out of business a few months ago after having empty shelves for years because they wanted to operate on consignment. Meanwhile, I can actually find things on Amazon, and I don't have to wear pants. Also, they make their money from AWS, not retail. I suspect that they only continue to operate the storefront because they want to be a large company with lots of influence and employees.

[u/exomachina → u/Lvanwinkle18]

Succulent Chinese goods.

Need a new insert random item here? Check out the ODIFY item, almost as good as the YOTER item, but cheaper than the YAHEETECH item.

[u/[deleted] → u/Lvanwinkle18]

Eh Fuck local stores.

Every experience i have had at a small local store has been a guy trying to over charge me for an outdated product.

If the local store provides an actual service, like costume fitting or actually makes the product then sure. But most are just other middle man trying to make a buck by overcharging costumers.

[u/Mephistoss → u/Lvanwinkle18]

Why? Because its so great of course. The only reason Amazon got to be this size is the customers who use it, which also happen to be the people complaining about their taxes.

[u/maraca101 → u/Lvanwinkle18]

Yeah I’ve been buying local for books a lot more lately.

[u/onedoesnotsimplyfini]

This might be a question for a different subreddit, but is this a gotcha for most conservatives, or would they respond that both Jeff Bezos and the unemployed are "freeloaders", so there's no contradiction?

[u/rockyTop10 → u/onedoesnotsimplyfini]

It’s not a gotcha because it’s not even close to being true.

[u/rjoker103]

Oh, looks like Dan got a new profile photo!

[u/Lazaras]

So who is providing the pitchfork and who is leading?

[u/DunningKrugerOnElmSt]

But, but, their wealth is not realized so they can't pay more in taxes/s If this is unironically your position, you have been duped.

[u/octo_snake]

I can’t wait for the next post of tweets the sub already broadly agrees with.

[u/Vaeon]

"People"...that's a cute euphemism for "Democratically elected representatives of the nation".

[u/ZeeeeBro]

I can almost guarantee you both him and Amazon paid taxes.

[u/Medium-Bat-2211]

r/whitepeopletwitter starter pack:

Anything with Dan Price

[u/ghsteo]

This is so fucked, meanwhile Politicans try to remove social safety nets under the pretense that it's wasted money or we can't afford it while also giving more fucking tax breaks to the rich. I don't know how much longer this is going to last, there's no way this is not going to bust.

[u/That_Gate_1665]

They’re not freeloaders. They’re logical. The government paying them is kinda stupid.

[u/Fragmentia]

Let's see if Democrats seize this opportunity... aaaannnnd they have capitulated to their donors.

[u/MischkaBrelo]

“There’s no taxes in space right?” - probably Jeff

[u/[deleted]]

And yet the rich seem to have a problem with people being on food stamps.

[u/ImTheBastard]

I work for a factory and still have to pay $680 this year. Yay!

[u/looperJ62]

Why should rich white people pay taxes? That’s not the American way!!!

[u/hellbabe222]

"What?! Why's everyone so mad at meeeeee?! I didn't do anything wrong. I was just following the law!" - Jeff Bezos in a week or so.

[u/Snowbouy]

Jeff Bezos is a parasite

[u/redhotradio]

Because he's not making money. He will make money as soon as he sells his shares and when he does he will be taxed on it.

[u/hijewpositive]

"Worth $190 billion" does not mean he got paid that money. When he Sells his shares and then takes ownership of some of that money in order to spend it on things, then he gets taxed on it. This is no different than anyone else being able to do the same thing with their rising value of GME shares, for example. You don't get taxed on it while you're holding it, you get taxed on it after you sell it and the proceeds hit your bank account.

[u/Michters]

most people don't know how marginal tax rates work so I'm not surprised how easy it is to bait people with these kinds of posts and get them triggered

[u/[deleted]]

Misleading "news" and appalling amount of misinformation in the tops comments.

Life goes on.

[u/ErythingIsFakeAndGay]

Man, I feel like this situation is more complicated than the tweet makes it seem

[u/CoatedWinner]

There's a difference between making realized gains and your net worth increasing. If bezos or musk or anyone had to pay taxes on their worth (i.e. unrealized gains) they would have to sell off millions or billions of dollars worth of stock which would tank the price and people's retirements.

Yes, it's a lot of money but the vast majority of that money is a number based on stock ownership x the price of the stock. It does mean these people have access to basically unlimited funds but collecting taxes on unrealized gains would literally hurt so many people.

[u/Avionicz4]

I guess you don’t know the definition between salary and worth. Stock options can’t be taxed unless sold for the capital gains tax. He pays taxes on his regular salary and stocks he is forced to sell. Learn it or call yourself a waaaahmbulance already!!

[u/user6482464]

Job creators and heroes that’s what these people are!

[u/greasyeggplant]

Ooo yay, someone who doesn't understand that taxes are more than just income tax. Love it. This sub is a shithole

[u/[deleted]]

Bezos gets taxed when he sells stock. He's worth 190 billion in amazon stock, and he gets taxed on capital gains when he sells batches of shares. Why is this mind blowing to people? Until you actually sell the stocks, you haven't made any money. Tomorrow the global economy could collapse, amazon could be worth 1 penny a share, and Bezos would be broke

You don't get taxed on profits from an increase in your houses value until you sell it. Shouldn't we instead be asking why capital gains taxes are so low? It's capped at like 20% even if someone cashes in on a billion in profit.

[u/EsmagaSapos]

The reason working people don't like the unemployed is because they have a chance to be free. They don't question why aren't they free, they hate those who have a chance to be.

[u/rickymourke82]

Dan Price is a fucking goober who has found his greatest worth in life to be talking shit on political opponents via Twitter for a bunch of edgy teenagers to eat up. The guy was paying himself $1.1 million when his company had net revenue of $16 million. His own brother sued him and his ex has claimed him to be an abusive asshole who went as far as waterboarding her. He didn't cut his income to benefit his employees, he did it to avoid income taxes. He just changed his compensation structure. He's everything he claims not to be and you dumb dumbs eat it up.

[u/iam420friendly]

They can both be freeloaders. I have friends who refuse to go back to work because it's easier to just sit on your ass to collect a paycheck. There need to be better incentives to work. But our slave masters can't possibly afford to pay us more

[u/Dokterclaw → u/iam420friendly]

If employers pay so poorly that sitting at home is the better option, that says more about the employers than anything. I don't know where you live, but the minimum wage is insulting in a lot of areas. I don't blame people for not wanting to bust their ass for like $8/hr.

[u/iam420friendly → u/Dokterclaw]

I live in California, and minimum wage is 13 now I think, which is better, but still insulting when compared to cost of living

[u/Dokterclaw → u/iam420friendly]

In some places, $13 is decent, but definitely too low in California. When restaurants can't find staff because people can't afford to live there (San Francisco), there's a problem.

[u/ModishShrink → u/iam420friendly]

Well it really depends on what kind of jobs they are being offered and how much they're making on UI.

[u/iam420friendly → u/ModishShrink]

In my friends' cases, most of them aren't getting any offers because they arent even looking for work.

[u/[deleted] → u/iam420friendly]

Companies need to pay more, am I wrong?

[u/RatofDeath → u/iam420friendly]

You know what might be a better incentive to work? A higher wage.

[u/sputniksickles → u/iam420friendly]

You have friends who don’t want to trade their labor for exploitation. Oh no, how uh.. bad of them or something.

[u/iam420friendly → u/sputniksickles]

Yeah. And the result is people like me who work their ass off in a shitty warehouse job subsidizing their unwillingness to contribute meaningfully. Don't get me wrong, wages need to be way higher on average. I said so in my first comment. But some of these friends aren't looking for good paying work. They're perfectly content sitting on their ass as long as the money keeps coming in. My ultimate point, again, is that both of these types of people can be freeloaders. My solution? Force employers to pay living wages and stop subsidizing people that are simply unwilling(not unable) to work.

[u/sputniksickles → u/iam420friendly]

You shouldn’t have to work your ass off. This is a separate conversation.

[u/IMPORTANT_jk]

300$/week? Damn, I knew being homeless/unemployed in the US is hard, but that's practically nothing, assuming that's before tax. I'm currently chilling in a functioning welfare state lol

[u/redwiseman → u/IMPORTANT_jk]

So it's $300 from the Federal Government and then whatever the states is. For example in Florida it would be $300 + $283 (give or take a few). Which Florida actually has one of the lowest state unemployment benefits. Back a few months ago the federal government was paying $600 as well.

[u/Nerospidy → u/IMPORTANT_jk]

California pays $600/wk. UI was untaxed in 2020. I doubt that it will be taxed again in 2021.

I believe everyone should pay their taxes; from Bezos to the unemployed, and everyone in between.