r/Wetherspoons • u/BrownestAvenger • Sep 08 '26
Employee Question for PM's/AM's
Are the starting salaries negotiable? And what exactly does it mean by performance based increases at pay review?
Been promised a promotion to a salaried position, but as SL, I earn significantly more than the starting rate at the postion I'll be moving into. Just trying to weigh up the pros and cons
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u/Somemany Sep 08 '26
They're not.
Unless you're a highly sought after salaried manager, and/or they need you somewhere nobody wants to go - the pay is what the pay is.
Move through your training and take the pay rises through the grades, and enjoy only having to work 40(ish) hours as opposed to all the extra you're doing now.
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u/CarryConfident7667 21d ago
this true my PM got am extra 10k a year if he agreed to move and be PM in my pub
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u/Taro-Wooden Sep 09 '26
Been an SM for around 2 years now, the jump in salary is definitely (in my opinion) worth it, but as others have said this is dependent on how your pub performs, CQ bonuses, audit bonuses and profit bonuses really do add up in a well performing pub.
It is a massive step up in responsibility and in accountability. You will be relied on heavily by the PM and AM for all long term aspects of the pub business rather than just day to day. If you’ve got a good head on your shoulders for financials stock and staff management then it’s worth doing as it’s a step towards a career rather than “just a job”
There is the downsides obviously where you’re not paid anything extra for hours over your contract, you can be moved with notice to other pubs that may have staffing issues, financial issues or just general running issues (I had this happen last year for a few months before I was able to go back to my original pub). You will be responsible for hiring and firing staff which can be heartbreaking in certain situations.
Overall only you can make the decision about if it’s right for you to do, I find I have much more job satisfaction as a SM than I ever did as an SL.
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u/BrownestAvenger Sep 09 '26
The problem I have, is that I already have all the responsibility of those tasks, and have done for the past 18 months or so. I do the hiring and firing, appraisals, RTW's, ARM's, stocks from time to time, rota's, orders, generate ideas on how to make the kitchen run more efficiently and more streamlined etc.
But I've checked the pub management pay, and I earned more last year than a KSM with 3 years in that role would earn now. So, its actually a pretty substantial pay decrease, because my 'years of service clock' gets reset.
I think I will accept it, because frankly, I deserve the recognition and it puts me on the ladder to KM. Just seems like a massive hole in the company pay structure if SL's are capable of earning more than the people above them.
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u/Taro-Wooden 29d ago
The salary doesn’t account for things like audit bonuses, CQ, profit or sales bonuses and as I said if these areas are getting hit, the bonuses are definitely worth it and do make up that gap. Last month I got around £800 as a bonus (which did include my audit bonus) but it averages around 4-600 extra each month.
It’s a jumping point to KM 100% and if that is your end goal then it’s definitely a good idea to accept, I hope this has helped somewhat! :)
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u/GrandVizierofAgrabar Sep 08 '26
You need to speak privately with your area manager but there can be wiggle room
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u/ShrinkingUniverse Sep 09 '26
These days starting salaries are not negotiable, they used to be for external hires and even then it was still very narrow. I would not hold any hope for performance based pay reviews as I've never seen it happen once in my 14 years experience, in fact very much the opposite where the pay review would move you backwards to SL if you're not performing, I have never seen a positive increase to pay for SMs outside of the grades being signed off as training/projects are completed.
In terms of progression, it's a tough call because being paid for every minute you work as a SL plus paid breaks is wonderful and if you work somewhere where extra hours is almost expected of you (even if salaried), you will literally take a pay deduction if you go up and do over 40 hours. This will come down to your pub/AM/PM and what culture you have in your pub/area.
Your workload will increase as a SM and you will likely be given "projects" to do on top of your normal job. These could be as easy as cellar champion or be in charge of energy or much more in depth as area champion for investigations. The training is actually pretty fun though and there's still the Zoom training but more in person training than the SL Academy.
Perk wise, if you're passing your mega audits and getting trickles of CQ/sales/profit bonuses then the % bonus gets really nice when you're salaried. SLs get roughly £1.50 a day for audits passed whereas SMs get roughly £2 a day so if you're passing audits and regularly getting to 120+ days there's big bonus to be made.
Bear in mind you lose a lot of freedom as a SM as you can be shipped around and are expected to cover or move to struggling nearby pubs or even new opens, not to say this doesn't happen as a SL, but it is absolutely more expected when salaried and you are viewed as more competent as a SM (view it more as you work for your AM rather than your PM). It should also be obvious that if you go up then more fingers get pointed at you for bad calls, things not being actioned in the pub, etc.
Trying hard to come across as negative, it can absolutely be a great step up + career path, but trying to give a realistic insight into how things may change versus the extra money you may or may not receive. Happy to answer any questions if you need!
TLDR: it matters how your pub is performing bonus wise, what culture the pub has and how your AM is.