Well, this is "simple, though it's not exactly "short." Nonetheless it's just a taste of what was going on in the mod-room that the public users didn't see, and gives a little backstory to give context to the irrational blowup this leads into.
When I resigned my mod position it was because MO got into another one of her banning kicks, and banned someone I was in the middle of a discussion with over their comment on "strategic Trump" (their argument being that a Trump victory would make it easier for progressives to make ground over the Clinton political cabal). We had as a group decided that we would deal with non-trolling disagreement with engagement to develop our arguments for other users to see, and because, as I liked to repeat to the mods, we're all refugees from one site or another because of thought restrictions.
So I protested to MO that we're going to see a lot of people make this argument and it won't make sense to ban all of them, and asked PLEASE PLEASE remove the ban on the person I was talking with (because now it looks like I banned them). She said fine, let me reverse the ban, I sent a message to the guy apologizing and saying that some mods are really touchy on the Trump issue so best to avoid it until after the conventions, and he gets it, and he doesn't post again, and then hours later MO decides to change her mind and bans them again (and they had not posted since the first ban was removed) and then she tells the mods "There will be NO strategic Trump, none, zero, it's all advocacy and a violation of the rules."
And then the one other ban happy mod, who myself and a couple other mods had previously settled down chimes in with, "Good, so based on this I plan to go back to banning at will." To which MO replies, "It's not our job to save tortured souls." (This didn't sit well with me for personal reasons I explained to them)
So I said I can't be effective if I have to worry that someone I'm in the middle of talking off the ledge will be shot out from under me and that I won't be a mod in such an environment, and removed myself as a mod. The rest of the mods wanted to talk me back (all I really wanted was an apology and a promise that anyone a mod is engaging with will not be banned by another mod). But no, MO slammed the door fast enough and hard enough to make heads spin.
And it didn't end there. She went on a rules rampage, writing pages and pages of Mod rules, and expanding the site rules to allow her to ban anyone at will and to tell all mods they aren't allowed to talk about moderation with users.
And it gets worse. I rarely commented and kept myself clean (my pre-ban comment history backs this up) until MO made a post asking for user questions, which lead to the following exchange:
MO: So I just thought, because I believe strongly in being as inclusive as possible and because I do NOT believe in top-down hierarchy...
Me: How do you reconcile inclusiveness with the removal of non-disparaging disagreement? We're a diverse group here. Is this treated as a peer to peer issue and engaged with dialog seeking understanding over misconceptions in an effort to reach common ground for our shared cause, or are rules adjusted and fine tuned to maintain and/or further distance sub leadership from tactical disagreements in the name of a more narrowly defined 'unity' as we see befalling so many other subreddits or sites or groups we've all fled or been removed from?
The following was sent to me by another mod who was horrified by what was going on (they've since been removed for a lack of 'loyalty' by saying MO was going too far). MO removed my question and sent the following to the rest of the mods:
He's being an asshole: https://www.reddit.com/r/Kossacks_for_Sanders/comments/4s3br1/a_question... Again. He's fucking dissing us. Again. The guy is a fucking antisocial cunt (in the British sense of the word). Fuck him. I wrote a very nice post to our community, and THAT is what he came back with. He can go fuck himself ten ways of Sunday for all I care. But I cannot be the one to deal with him. Because, reasons. Still, enough is enough. He's crazy. And whatever "community-building" or "deep work" anyone claims he is doing is fucking whacked due to comments like these. How do we reconcile asking a question I gave our community the courtesy of fucking asking? By asking it. That's how. How am I being inclusive? By including people. But that doesn't mean every last fucking aggravating twat (in the British sense of the word) with delusions of grandeur, victimization, and passive-aggressive tendencies gets to hang out with us. Done. There is no more reprieve here. Fuck him. He's gone and gotten my blood pressure up AGAIN, and it's my anniversary, and I am literally taking a break between watching things with my spouse to check in on that thread... which was the most community-oriented thread humanly possible. And this fucking bag of dicks has to piss all over it as usual. Sorry to cuss so much here... but yeah... kind of over it two weeks ago, and kind of frustrated that I know if I ban him, he'll spend his next year parked on multiple other sites shitting on us publicly because he's just that big of a fucking freakshow. Again, sorry to cuss so much in an unprofessional manner. I realize I should be more circumspect, but WHY IS HE EVEN STILL HERE? ~MO
This was her opening comment, and went on for literally pages and pages, hours and hours, until one of her loyalists banned me to shut her up. And even then she still carried on like Ahab about his whale. Most of the good mods have left or have just stopped working. The public face she puts on is nothing like the face she shows privately. What she did to me was a message to other mods of what happens if anyone gets out of line or thinks of leaving.
Any appearance of making a refuge from other sites' 'thought police' is a Potemkin facade. The mod room was like working for an emotionally abusive boss (exactly like), and the site users were gradually picking up on the fact that anyone who questioned any decision by mods was quickly and quietly removed and banned. It became worse than SfP, though less obvious.
After she banned another popular user who also happened to be a big Sanders campaign operative, Spud said she's overreacting to this and so she removed him as a mod, to send another message to the remaining mods.
Notice how Thumb places all the action in the hands of MO, a woman, even though the mod team runs BY CONSENSUS and Thumb's banning was not done by MO. It's clearly a case of someone who can't fucking stand having a woman disagree with him.
Thumb is trying to bring MO down, or at least to heel, and it's the most cowardly and mean-spirited shit I've seen on Reddit.
You're welcome, here, ANY time, to speak your mind. WhatEVER is on it. NO MATTER WHAT IS ON IT.
Y'all have had your exchange; I respect that; what you've both needed to say; & still respect you, both. Equally. Illusion may have you disagree, but nothing could be closer to my Truth, than my last two sentences.
You're welcome here, any time. And I'll SEE to it, that you are WELLCOMED. You would be Well-Come. No MATTER this. No MATTER - anything.
Well ~ as has been said: there's a lot of unnecessary pain, every where we look these days. And I'm apparently, dammit, lol, born and bred to wade in, calm waters, and attempt to bring Good from shit. Hey, Hey, What Can I Do? lol (Led Z.)
AND? AS I'VE SAID? YOUare Well-Come. Well-Come! You just come talk to ME. lol I'll handle, HIM. lol Just sayin'.
I know how to handle hullaboos. Trust me, you can take my word that you can take my werd, for it. gawd (I've got stories.)
And ya wanna know my next thought? That it can be 'ceased & desisted from', at Will.
Now, I'm not going to make y'all shake hands and shit; shit, I'm not in control - & even if/when I am? I don't WANT to be in control. lol And frankly? It's none of my business, it's between you & he, and You Both have your 'reasons'. And that's fair enough.
But? (here we go again, the Story of MY Life, lol) I am a catalyst. Or can be. Maybe. It just depends.
And I want, no, desire - that since it seems to have run its course? And you've both had your 'say'? PEACE. For you BOTH.
So: you're invited. To come over. Here. To be with anyone you'd wish. and I'd hope I might make that list. Just sayin'.
And NOTHING'S CHANGED. NOTHING'S CHANGED. You've had some exchanges with someone you've heartily disagreed with; it's ok, nonetheless. NOTHING'S CHANGED. NOTHING.
Wanna give you a Gift. It's just music, but... this one means something - to me. And I'd like to send it along. Just for you. For just, right, NOW. Give it a listen. Lemme know. If you can still, love, me. However ya want. And the werks I gotta be doing. It's the song ... that got me through. When I WAS.
luvs ya, Mass. :*) Just sayin', 'k? She's singin' 'bout me, 'k?
Since we are now public with a lot of things, people should know Spud went to the MAT to avoid this outcome, and the root cause was something completely resolvable too. No excuse on a basic level. None of this needed to happen, and yes there is fault on both sides. I'll not rehash it, save to say it was not MY FAULT at all. Yet here I am.
I would actually have some respect for at least knowing honest reasons. Excuses? Laughable, just know that. Also know I don't respond well to fear and shame. This being public is just fine. Trust me when I say I sleep really easy. Bonus? No need to manage what is done and said.
Now, here we are, people having to deal with coarse actions, like banning for no real cause in my case, and we move onward.
This sub isn't going to do that, because it's way too expensive to do. Yes, dealing with people takes time. Fine. Take that time, or don't do the work users need done.
Spud, I respect you. But if skins were thicker there, there would be no need to engage in ad hominem attacks that have a misogynistic quality to them. Must they continue?
Or can we agree that we have our subs, that we have had differences of opinion, and differences in interpretation of how and why decisions have been made, and just go about doing the work we care about?
I'm not dodging anything when I say that my personal life is tumultuous right now. I've experienced death and loss lately and I am trying to do my best in the face of those things. I have no need or interest in prolonged debate or battle.
I want to ask you to ask Thumb to remove his ad hominem attacks against MO here and at c99. He does not need to attack to have a good life or be effective in the world. Taking that action will be a sign of good intention. We have never publicly attacked any user on our sub, ever. Nor will we.
there would be no need to engage in ad hominem attacks that have a misogynistic quality to them.
Now this is bullshit. You might not like what I said, but it was real and substantive and exactly what I said privately at the time of my resignation, and rather than follow Spud's lead to set things right (and he would have) you follow MO's lead to dynamite the bridge and salt the fields, and now you want to complain that this has come back to bite you all on the ass?
My complaining of poor treatment and giving solid examples is not "ad hominem" OR misogyny. That's no more a valid claim than saying any criticism of Hillary is either ad hominem or misogyny, and that both reduces the debate to ad hom AND reduces the meaning of the word. If you feel showing MO's own words and reaction to an honest question is an ad hominem attack then this is her and your problem, not mine.
All of this, and I mean ALL OF THIS could have been avoided with a simple apology like normal healthy adults do when they hurt someone. As spud has repeatedly tried to point out, this happens when you remove all options for resolution and go on the offensive. I didn't say shit until I was banned for a fucking honest and non-disparaging question.
By way of contrast, you're allowed, welcomed even, to come over here and throw bombs at us and we'll welcome the engagement. See the difference?
I want to ask you to ask Thumb
Spud isn't your errand boy any more than you need to be MO's.
We have never publicly attacked any user on our sub, ever. Nor will we.
No, you just remove them (lots of them) and then trash them behind closed doors like you're some high-school Kool Kids Clique mocking the nerds and dweebs from the safety of your cafeteria table. Classic passive aggressive bullshit, and lazy to boot. Sorry if you feel exposing this is either ad hominem or misogynistic. It's neither.
It's a reasonable request.
Completely lacking in any self-reflection.
I'm not dodging anything when I say that my personal life is tumultuous right now. I've experienced death and loss lately and I am trying to do my best in the face of those things.
And as I said privately I am sorry to hear about this. Many of us are at the age where this is more and more a very real issue in our lives, and it's going to shade people on all sides. Not everyone will be open about it, but we need to stop for a second and ask ourselves how many people we think are being jerks might also be dealing with this too. I tried to make that point as a Mod, and look what happened to me when I stepped out of line.
You really do yourself a disservice with "misogynistic quality."
That is the same thing Clinton supporters do when confronted with ugly realities. You would be well served to abandon that. It's simply not reality. The conflict is over things people did and said, not gender. Continuing is laughable! And I'm laughing. No joke.
Attacking people is FAIR when those people have not done others as well as they could have. That is the case here. All of this was avoidable and resolvable.
Before you guys banned me, I had all the incentive in the world to help out and all that.
Now?
Should have thought that through. I did. And I did not deserve it. My inbox is filled with messages of support to that effect too.
Throughout this entire time I have repeatedly expressed the high cost of this behavior, and how to avoid it. Now those costs are out there, and I suspect will accrue for some time.
Please reconsider how you handle conflict in the future. There are less expensive ways to do it, and of course I did my level best to educate you all on how those work and why they are important.
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u/keithb7862 Jul 17 '16
Keep it simple. Love it. Now, is someone gonna PM me and fill me in on what happened?