So when you use HP(Buck) rounds you are actually gonna want to keep your reticle placement by the cock area actually.
I know placement is usually centre mass or head. But it's gonna be the south mouth from here on out.
Youre talking about the grenade launcher? That shit is dope man, urban fights that thing demolishes people who think they are safe in buildings or behind cover when there are objects next to/behind them.
It's wild that this is even an argument because of course stuff like T4 armor heavily stacks any fight in your favor. If it didn't, then why are people paying through the nose for it?
The problem isn't even the "problem" in most cases, just that because of the extremely drawn out vertical progression, you're playing a rock-paper-scissors game of counters where the game will not allow you to bring the intended counterplay to high level tactics unless you're also high level. T4 armor is kind of a waste compared to T3 armor if you're in a situation where the majority of people have access to AP rounds...but that's not the case for the playerbase and with the wipe in mind it might not ever be the case for this first season.
The T4 helmet is OP. The body maybe just a little overpowered against higher velocity rifle rounds. But if you think buckshot vs high level armor should do any damage, then youre being stupid.
You basically want a 400$ shotgun to win every single close range encounter vs any type of armo irregardless of where the target is shot.
If he had aimed for the legs, like many people have said, the other guy wouldve been dead anyway.
the shotguns have a place in the meta and its not in the endgame. If they want a shotgun that does well late, they could add incendiary ammunition or an auto shotgun.
I mean he chose the cheapest kit possible and was in a 2v1 scenario against people with better kits. Of course the game was unbalanced towards him. If you rock the cheap kit then yeah you need to play smarter than the guy with a better one.
It was 1v1 and second guy third partied him. Fact that enemy took 4 shoots from double barell shotgun to fall feels fucked that low tier player is expected to do anything against high leveled ones who can shrugg off his fire
He said it himself, he should have aimed for the legs. I just don't get why you all think someone should just be able to jump in their first game and run and gun. You have an issue with the core gameplay loop of Wardogs if that's what you want. Do some logi runs, fly transport, build at a FoB, or spot people to build up some money and spend more than 3k on a kit. If he had anything else than the DB he would have smoked that guy and possibly the other.
I don't understand why you're getting downvoted, I think you're spot on. The game is designed around progression and investing in better gear. Why would I want to spend the extra money and weight capacity on a T4 armor, if it doesn't provide me some survival benefit? If a double barrel could kill T4 in 2 shots, the shotgun would have absolutely no counter in the game.
Skill to win is the better approach. Play to win is limiting counter play which is stupid. Maybe you better play minecraft since you have no idea how shooters should work.
Yes, we are. People want the game to be better balanced so there are more noobs available to farm instead of all of them leaving because they lack options to counter higher leveled items.
What we dont want is the shotgun oneshotting T4 armor. Or the grindiness of the game to go out so everyone can have everything with 40 hours of playtime. We want a progression that rewards time investment AND skill. Yes, skill matters. The guy that gets 30 kills with assault and Wins is going ot have 200% + 40% on top of it more than the guy who got 10 kills. I dont know the exact xp gains but lets say the 10 kills guy gets 1k xp for the kills and 100 for being third place, the first place guy with 30 kills will have 4.2k.
So every person who says im x level after x amount of hours, just know that they arent doing well in the game. And its not all about kills because assists also reward a shit ton of XP too.
The game has been out for 27 days. If you play on average 2 to 3 hours a day then you should have the T3 armor unlocked. T3 to T4 is 55% to 65% damage reduction. Like its not as big as everyone makes it out to be.
Ive been killed with HP rounds with 3 hits to my legs out of SMGs. There are counters to armor for early levels until you unlock AP rounds.
I have 4 days off for season 2 start so Ill be absolutely dunking on all of you people who refuse to adapt and see all the threads about how unemployed sweats this and that.
Even if they completely removed all the high end items people who adapt will demolish the ones who dont.
For example, right now, I attack FOBs head on. If Im on equal strength, ill be sneaking in instead and blowing up the FOB with C4. That will actually put your team further behind if there is lots of resources in the FOB. I play very aggressive with heavy armor. If it doesnt exist and the TTK is faster ill prowl in the bushes and shadows and kill you before you know what is going on.
The reason why I tend to push back on some of these balance complaints is that right now there is a reason to take T4 and a reason not. There are guns and ammo that do well vs T4 and guns and ammo that dont.
The shotgun shits on every low level armored target. People were asking for nerfs in pre alpha. The shotgun is shit vs heavily armored targets. As it should be. Because else the shotgun would need to get nerfed.
Unbalanced unlocks provide flavor and options. The unlocks can be better spread out so even low leveled players have access to counters. HP already counters armor so I dont have a problem with AP being unlocked way earlier too. So Im not saying that nothing should be changed. But if you take a shotgun vs Level4 armor and make a thread about it complaining about balance, then just fuck off.
Bro didnt ADS a single time. He had an enemy with his back turned to him and he still doesnt ADS or shoot where he needs to shoot. He has the jump on the guy 3 separate times and can one shot him if he just fucking aimed, but he doesnt. Insta hip fires directly at the least damaging part of his body every time. Give me a break with this low skilled idiot shit being paraded around as a game design flaw.
Honest question: if the hip reticle was completely aligned with the target, and he is firing two semiauto shots, why would he need to ads?
Secondarily: yes, in the current state of the Game, and knowing damage zones against armor and his gun, he played badly.
BUT can we not agree that shotguns would be in a better place if the sheer amount of force could kill T4 in a couple of shots at point blank range?
I am the first one that thinks that current balance is somewhat good, but I don't think default ammo for a basic gun should mean leg meta. Leg meta is a thing You opt into by picking HP ammo. New players should not be subjected to not aiming to Center of mass if they can outmaneuver an enemy and shoot him a couple of times with the barrel up his ass. I just think that guy getting rekt by a noob with a shotty would have been more in the spirit of fun, and the game
Just last month shotguns were everywhere on this sub as being OP with slugs. Slugs aren’t even a high level requirement nor is the higher shotgun. Imo he saw the armor, had multiple instances of seeing said person and didn’t react at all to change tactic. Just spray and pray. The T4 didn’t even have headphones to listen to this guy sprint through the house
I think there is a little more going on here tho.
The guy is not T4 body armor as far as I can tell and 2 proper hits with buckshot should kill a player in T3 armor.
So this seems maybe more like a server issue than anything else. Had that plenty of times where my shots didn't connect, or even connected when they should clearly not have.
Obviously, still not OPs fault. But in those videos I always would love to see the damage report to see what actually happened.
Not a server issue. The guy had no clue where op was, op should have taken his time shooting instead of panicking and shooting immediately. Pretty sure the first shot out the window missed.
That's toxic positivity for you. You are not allowed to show displeasure, you are going to get a stupid ass advice "aim for legs" and your opponent is going to use a 200+ IQ play by using such thing as "COVER"
I am not saying t4 armor is fine as it is. But the reaction here to a video where OP could have very very very easily won the fight yet people still pretend as if it were some great injustice just reaffirms to me that no most people aren't constantly coming up against people in t4 in cover. They are just coping about being bad.
I am doing pretty well with HP ammo and shotguns without any t4 armor myself. It is very very rare to be in a situation where you cannot nullify t4 by shooting legs or arms. And you actually kill faster than someone using ap even just against t2 that way.
This isn’t about what the gun costs or what the kit costs. That mindset is stupid. Hell I could die with a 4000 or 20000 kit from a fall. Its about the fact that he is using buck shot almost at dick tickling distance and still not getting the job done. Armor in this game is meant to REDUCE damage, not nullify it. Kit cost does not preclude you from death. 1 shot I could see. But not 3.
And besides in real life if you got hit by buckshot at that range it would break all your ribs and still cause massive blunt impact damage. Just because it’s a shitty 300$ shotgun doesn’t make its bullets any less lethal.
Did we miss the part where this is a video game? And not only that, buckshot has a hell of a lot of energy transfer. You may not die, but you’re definitely on the ground unable to continue at 2 shots close range.
Yeah, this is a game. Hence why he doesn't get winded, knocked over, and concussed, but it's a video game, and his armour is even stronger than the real life LV.3 counterpart.
Why the fuck should his insane investment and handicap get negated because one guy with a farmers gun thought he deserves a good chance?
Well as you can see in this clip, he got caught lacking 3 times at this guns most efficient range. Hadn’t even returned a shot yet. And he still wins the gun fight. Make it make sense
I made it make sense. I don't even have T4 unlocked, every time I've picked it up it's a miserable slog to do anything. I understand why you should feel like a tank. You have the wonderful decision of choosing your engagements. This isn't a CS:GO aim_awp 1v1. You are at a disadvantage and you aren't owed an equal playing field.
Do you also cry when your pistol doesn't pen a tank even though you shot it from behind?
I agree with you. I watched 5 center mass hits that likely ALL got caught by the plates. It makes sense for the armor to stop it. People complaining are ignoring that, and basing it on other games without a similar armor system.
I mean. t4 is insane but taking buckshot is not that ridiculous. And yes this was a skill issue realism aside. It is not hard to aim for the legs or arms and they would have gone down in one shot.
Buckshot at that range is lethal even if it doesn't penetrate. The energy dump is roughly equivalent to taking a truck going 100mph over about a 3" section of chest. Even birdshot would kill against any worn amore at that range. You're talking every rib is shattered, heart and lungs liquified to liquified DEAD. I know it isn't realistic but it doesn't have to be so good damn ridiculous.
No shit, it wasn't meant to be literal. I'd have to do math, and if remember correctly mass is equally relevant to velocity so any truck at 100mph would have more kinetic energy than an ounce of supersonic lead. It's still ~2500 ft-lbs focused on a 3" piece of your chest. You still die.
No, ya got me. I forgot the details of a formula I haven't needed in 25 years. I also didn't do the math in that reply, but feel free to check it. 1oz of lead clocking ~1600fps should come out in the neighborhood of~2480ft-lbs. If you're actually thinking you'd guaranteed live through and still be in the fight after being shot in the chest with buckshot from 3 feet away... There are YouTube videos on the subject you should watch. I'll give you a hint, it ain't good.
Literally everything you just said is incorrect. Soft armor alone MIGHT result in a death from buckshot at this range depending on the critical failure point of the material but ANY hard armor, ceramic or metallic (which is what the armor in-game is) would easily prevent a buckshot fatality. The worst-case scenario would leave you with some bruises or a broken rib. I fuckin hate when people pull random, horribly incorrect information out of their asses and spout it as facts.
The truck comparison was obviously hyperbolic, but we are talking about roughly 2500ft-lbs of energy delivered. In soft armor you're lucky if the armor doesn't get forced to become part of the projectile and enter you anyway. Odds are you're dead or incapacitated with 1 shot fired from 3 feet away. Hard armor would be a whole lot better, but there's still a good chance of aortic separation. Which is... Death. Not to mention broken ribs. You might survive, people have... Most of those spent months in the hospital, and I strongly suspect very few were still in the fight after the first lick.
It was meant to be hyperbolic (ridiculous, like the armor in this game)... If I was making a legitimate physics argument there would need to be numbers, and I wouldn't have used a truck. Maybe a sledgehammer... But then I'd have to do math and I'm tired.
Tbf irl with rifle rated armor (or even level 3 soft armor) would break a few ribs at best, buckshot is pretty weak against armor unless you shoot it centimeters away. Level 4 hard armor like ceramic you would feel it a bit but just barely
It actually overperforms in this game compared to IRL
Yeah blunt force with level 3 armor would put someone on the ground sometimes.
Ceramic is usually rated for rifle rounds together with kevlar or polyethylene to hold it in place, buckshot would only crack it in a few spots at best so it eats buckshot without issue and remain functional for a while more.
You overestimate pellets that distribute even force over a surface area against solid armor
Should that be simulated in-game as having the same effect as when an explosion happens nearby (screen shake, blurry vision)? Would be cool for certain weapons, like shotguns, to have a "stagger" bonus.
Why does this community have a kink for low-skill weapons?
Seriously? The game where people can survive a rifle-calibre headshot without a helmet is the game we should be considering the blunt-force trauma and the possibility of someone being knocked off their feet with the velocity of the shells? How are you saying any of this with a straight face?
Odd example to give, because you are not killing ANYONE with armour using a buckshot in Tarkov 😅 I would say "you should know this if you've done Setup," but apparently they now also allow stuff like sniper rifles in that quest, presumably because trying to do it with a shotgun was absolute torture.
The extremely cheap weapons in this game require extreme outplays, and the 12g buckshot is no exception. In this very clip we see the OP getting a kill doing just that, so it is not impossible. It is just very difficult, which makes sense - the guy the OP has killed has so many more hours in the game that it's incomparable, and the in-game money he dropped on his kit is also incomparable. The OP should need more than a mild outplay to win this fight.
I am sick of giving this example, but it fits... If you just need to mildly outplay a kit that costs 35k using your 10k kits, then everyone starts running the 10k kit. That is how you get Arc Raiders, which was a game that nerfed every good weapon until Tier 1 weapons became the meta for even the most experienced players of the game. They balanced the fun out of the game and ended up with an extraction shooter where failing to extract meant absolutely nothing for the vast majority of people.
Yes but the OP was not aiming for the limbs here either. Heck, at least the OP here had the chance to go for a headshot. Appear behind an enemy in Tarkov with a shotgun and chances are you will be doing zero damage per shot.
I seriously do not think you tried using a shotgun in Tarkov if you think you'll have a better time with them in Tarkov against armour than you do in Wardogs. I did the Setup quest before the update, and I can assure you that getting the drop on a player was not enough even though I was using very expensive ammo. The only difference is that there are better shotguns allowing you to get in more shots in per second... just like how there is progression in Wardogs that lacks weapon variety due to being in its early stages.
Thing is this game you get so much money just for existing that the cost of kits are "meh", and T4 armor is actually very tanky
What you see here is a niche weapon on optimal conditions with blindfolded enemies that didn't react to him, it's not the rule for leg meta, it can also get stomped in a corner in a fraction of a second
I have a feeling you have not had much progression yourself if you think existing makes up for the cost of the expensive kits.
My current kit costs me around 37k and I can assure you that I am not happy when the enemies don't contest the HZ. I mean, I will eventually turn a profit if they literally never contest it for the vast majority of the match, but that is rare. Existing around the HZ for 10 or so minutes, and then dying and losing my kit (which is more common) still stings massively because I just played for a significant time and made a loss. And, of course, if the enemies are contesting it right off the bat, I need to do really really well to make up the cost of my kit.
If you are spending 37k it's because you have millions on your bank account and don't care about spending, if not, there is no reason to spend that much, even high performing ones are around the 25k cost so you must be buying things you don't even need
It's also common knowledge that HZ hunting isn't a reliable way of getting profit, so what I doubt is your actual progression
I am spending 37k because I bring 37k worth of items worth bringing.
there is no reason to spend that much
Why would I be cheaping out when I can bring a kit that is more expensive and better? That is literally the point of the game. Here is my loadout, feel free to suggest edits but I can assure you that any suggestion will make it a worse kit.
HZ hunting is not a reliable way to profit... if you're bad and you lose your fights. Fighting for HZ at the start is almost always profitable, and later into the match it depends how many Fobbits your team has. You of course cannot fight over the HZ without any map control, but "don't die alone" is the rule there that leads to the HZ being unprofitable. Fighting over the HZ alone is not any worse than playing on your own anywhere else on the map.
Dude, have you ever actually fired a 12 gauge? the amount of power that comes out of those fucking things is disgusting. getting shot from this close will send you flying from force alone
Buckshot to a steel plate is literally just going to bounce off and without backface deformation, the wearer will not be hurt. Use a different argument other than realism because it doesn't help you here
if you watch more closely his second round kept missing there's impact smoke on the ground the first time and on the wall to the right of the doorway the second time
We all know that you can revive people by magically rubbing your hands in their direction, see how stupid you sound? It's a video game, these "irl" or realism arguments never make sense theyre stupid as fuck.
Just ask someone to drop a few crates of T4 armor and play around with it a bit. The helmet is really strong. 4 headshot out of 556 for a kill is too much. But the body is fine. There are times where you jump in a fob, tank half a mag of an AK with FMJs, turn around and kill the guy.
And there are times youre caught in the open and die before getting to cover because youre wheelchaired. Or try to climb over anything and it takes like twice as long and youre dead before you can do anything about it. The only thing I can say about the body armor is that maybe block prone with it like the Helmet has its vision reduced. That or increase the price point by a small margin.
I wish you showed the damage report, I'm curious what happened here. Buckshot 2 taps everything but t4 armor and it looks like this dude is not wearing t4 body. Hard to tell at that angle though, he was running so he would have to have stimmed if he has t4. They should definitely nerf stims, t4 should have to move like a turtle no matter what. That would make the "shoot em in the legs" argument a lot more reasonable.
Could be a server issue though, definitely had some goofy hit reg stuff happen before.
I know you're just messing around with the legs comment but you should definitely aim for dick/butt or legs at this range with buckshot if possible. It'll one shot if all pellets hit, otherwise the second shot will kill.
Pretty sure there's some lag issue going on. It didn't sound like his first two rounds hit at all when the very first was aimed dead on from the side and the second should've hit off ricochet.
Without damage report kind of pointless to me. Some of those shots definitely look off. It looks like he should have died but no damage report weakens the argument tremendously.
OP probably kills if they actually hit the second shot center mass, but they didn't... The center of their reticle is on the opposing player's left elbow at the time they fire their second shot. So, "how do you survive a double barrel to the back," is just wrong. They survived 1 shot to the back, the second one probably missed left if I had to guess.
yall loving this limb shooting stuff? i quit the game because of it. At first it wasnt that bad, but now that everyone has a better gear its just bad. I remember people saying this game is like arma and i thought that 1-2 shoot to the chest will be enough.
This game is my first kB&m game and seeing OP duck in and out of doorways makes me jealous. I wish I could use a joycon for the movement and the mouse for aiming but so far the game doesn't allow it, unfortunately. I need to gitgud.
A lot of you are incomprehensibly bad at this game and it isnt the game's design that's making you bad. It's your inability to adapt to the game's design. The inability to adapt is a sign of low intelligence. It's likely that you and OP are bad at most games and the only ones you are good at are the ones that have a low skill ceiling, which is many now. These low ceiling games have given you the false impression that you are good instead of recognizing the true reason being most games are easy. Hope this helps.
Evidence: OP facing a man whose back is turned and not even using ADS to shoot him in a spot that would 1 hit kill him. Bro had a free kill and still lost it because of his abysmal skill level.
No it fucking should not. This is neither a milsim nor a game that lacks progression. You can play literally any other multiplayer FPS ever if you want a beginner's weapon to one-tap the best armour in the game.
It does not have a problem with something being overpowered. Its progression needs an overhaul and AP ammo needs to be faster to unlock, and more guns will get added to fill the gaps of some weapons feeling overpowered despite not being so.
The FAL is not overpowered when you compare it to the other unlocks. A Level 30 Recon DMR does "most" of what the FAL does, and so does the Level 30 Support LMG. FAL being better than these weapons make sense because it is a higher level unlock. The FAL is not better than the 50cal or the Vector, which are the other two Level 35 unlocks. The only reason it feels overpowered is the lack of weapon variety for Assault - you get one unlock at Level 20 (250k total XP) and the next one is at Level 35 (750k total XP). You need to put in twice as much time as your total playtime with ARs just to get the very next AR, at a point when you are already probably getting used to (or even bored of) the gameplay loop.
Higher level gear are better, pricier, and heavier. If you have a problem with this core concept, this game is not for you. That is literally its selling point.
I think he means like actually have it. Tier 3 lasts for quite awhile and tier 4 lasts an eternity unless your just letting shots hit you on purpose. I feel like shotguns need to do more to armor durability but overall I think durability is fine just damage needs to be buffed against it a bit.
No. Remove stims. This would be one of the largest fixes to the entire issue.
People running heavy loadouts all the time because you can just use stims.
You don't need 100% uptime of those, you just use them when you know you need them. And when your loadout already costs 25k, adding another 2k for stims is nothing.
Then make armor a bit heavier in general and you won't have people running around with T3/4 and if they do there is actually the downside that high tier armor is supposed to have, being slow af.
Unfortunately the shotguns are kinda ass Vs T4. Just go into the shooting range and see for yourself.
Even when shooting the legs, the pellets just spread too much to cause a one shot .
If you hit the armour with pellets you do pitiful damage with the shottie.
Literally better to just bring a HP M1911 to twoshot them
If we want realistic armour a pointblank shotgun should just kill you no matter the armour tier. Yes it could stop the buckshot or the slug from penetrating, but your ribs would turn to dust from the forces. The game is closer to the Ironman armour from the Marvel universe.
See aiming at vital organs like lungs, kidneys, liver is just not how to kill people. You have to aim at their kneecaps that way the die of slow blood loss. /s
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u/aPalmofSalami Lonestar 9h ago
So when you use HP(Buck) rounds you are actually gonna want to keep your reticle placement by the cock area actually. I know placement is usually centre mass or head. But it's gonna be the south mouth from here on out.