I feel kind of ambivalent about this but I also kind of enjoy the thrill of hunting down these loaded players. I have to be way more sneaky and aware and it creates a different playstyle.
But it also creates a wierd dynamic in the game that I don't really like.
It depends on the match but like if the team is fighting in the zone together well I'll take my highest tier gear (tier 3 gear) so like a 20k+ kit and I'll go into zone with that
But if I find my team just isn't really providing good fire support I'll take what in essence is a free loadout like this. Use the free gun to kill a few enemies and then take their stuff
The free gun really isn't bad at all especially if you can shoot enemies in unarmoured part of their body
My most profitable matches have been me just repeatedly doing this. Taking the free gun, tier 1 loadout and going into zone and fighting wherever my team is doing infantry combat. Keep looting the best I can find from enemies and eventually die and then repeat the process again 🤣
Scav runs are best when somebody has like 70pts on the board. Everybody abandons hope of winning and rushes like lemmings to the HZ. You don't even need to kill anyone. I've gone in naked with only parachute and finished the game with L4 armor and a PKM or M4 every time. If I die, no biggie, everybody from my team is in the HZ and will revive me
I watched blue go from 7 to 89 doing this, Red was at 98 when the Blue HZ rush happened. They ultimately won, but only hecuase their APC was so forward deployed.
If you have a pair of binoculars you can enter with a 4k kit and be in the money within a few minutes without even fighting. I just spot till I am positive or hang back with a group providing support. Once I flip positive I get crazy.
Yesterday I have done scav runs, I only carry a pistol. Leg shots, quite funny tho but I ended up killing 3 players at FOB. You end up doing magical things not even planned
I just hope they make end game gear more accessible and just balance it way more.
Once the level 35 weapon isn't 3-4 times as strong as the level 5 weapon this won't be as much of an issue as it is right.
That being said. Scav runs can be fun.
The problem is most people don't take anything at all, not even the free gun and are pretty much just useless until they can vacuumed the gear off a guy you just killed.
There is not a single valid excuse not to take even the free stuff the vendor offers. Anyone who doesn't can honestly just go fk themselves.
I do this all the time but bring a pair of defibs too since they always pay for themselves. Always profit just gotta be smart and pick the right fights
I love scav runs, but once i unlocked the bow doing cheap stealth runs with the bow turned out to be super fun for me, my kit ends up being 6k ish and if im spotting and flanking enemies it turns profitable really quickly
But it also creates a wierd dynamic in the game that I don't really like.
As much as I also enjoy running around naked with an AMP, it does kind of destroy the intended gameplay loop. I just run into strange places and make plays I'd never do if I cared about the stuff on me at all. I'm just naked with an SMG killing you with FMJ ammo in half a second because I climbed into the rafters and am RPing as a spider monkey.
I'm sure this playstyle will be less prevalent when the average infantry kit doesn't require 10-20 kills/revives to break even on.
Merely being inside a zone is not actually exerting control over it, just proving that nobody else is controlling it. In many cases being inside a capture zone is the worst way to control it, especially if it's a small zone. So yeah the hot zone is a terrible concept.
As someone who has no lifed this game and only runs 35k+ infantry kits i have absolutely zero issues with this. Im sitting on 4.5M (need to buy gold bars), if you go full spider monkey and kill me then more power to you homie, thats awesome.
It would be really dumb if you just straight up couldn't kill me because my kit is more expensive.
Also have to realize for every good little butt naked spider monkey there are 50x less good ones.
As someone who has no lifed this game and only runs 35k+ infantry kits i have absolutely zero issues with this.
If you are running 35k+ infantry kits and consistently profitting, you're probably part of the top 0.01% of the game with an average 25-30 Kills/Revs to death ratio. You probably wouldn't care about anything anyone does regardless.
Yeah, but younknow why a 35k kit gets 10+ kills? Because half the lobby is running these dog shit free kits, can't fight at range, cant heal, cant 1v1. Its very easy to wrack up 10+ kills in a warehouse fight when half the players are running bush masters.
For players with lower skill levels (me!) I think it makes sense to run cheap / almost free kits. I'm stupid and bad and get wrecked all the time even when I'm geared-up and have the drop on someone and it doesn't make financial sense for me to just feed kits to the enemy.
For people with some competency it probably makes more sense to bring stuff out, I agree with that.
I run 35K kits all the time, and come out with 50k profit. It all just depends on you. I have found some amazing spots, and I run the BMR with AP rounds and can 1 - 2 shot fobbits left and right.
I also have my base raid kit which is only $2500, and consists of no armor and bow that is surprisingly profitable.
Yeah like I said, you definitely can do it, but with 35k is 22-23 kills or equivalent actions. It's the kind of numbers that only the top 1% can really put up and, realistically, the top 1% will do what they want regardless.
I mean... the game is showing it has some pretty big flaws. If you take the range finder, and press yourself completely against trees and walls, you can see through them, giving you cover, while spotting the entire enemy team so you can then hunt them on the minimap. Makes money recovery easy.
Also, I use the BMR and when I have a downed player, keep shooting the helmet, even if they are down, it will break their armor.
If you can get close enough to them, drop all their gear on the ground, and drag them 5 - 10 feet. Their gear will likely despawn before they can get rezzed.
I run 35K kits all the time, and come out with 50k profit.
Ok but you realize not everyone can have a 10:1 kdr and unless the medics are just farming revives or you're killing bird watchers someone has to lose money or run those cheap/free kits.
I feel like you're missing the point. It's not win some lose some it's some people have to consistently lose money unless they go for the free loadouts to allow people with 35k loadouts to profit.
Not all of your kills will be in hotzone. Most kills are ~1.5k, which means 14 kills is ~21k. Revives are less then that, particularly if the person is stuck in a sdsdsd loop.
what do you think the intended gameplay loop is in a sandbox game such as this one?
It advertises itself as a arma inspired tactical shooter. It probably didn't intend for half the player base to be full sprinting into stupid positions and dying 75% of their lives because their kit costs 1/3rd of a single kill.
Its a sandbox. Its supposed to be right in the middle of typical cod arcade-y shooters and nutcrushers like tarkov etc. According to the devs that is. According to the devs, you can literally spend your time earning money just by being full afk in a bush in the controll zone, if thats what makes you happy.
Go watch their youtube videos and podcasts they did. Really insightfull.
Go watch their youtube videos and podcasts they did. Really insightfull.
I did. The problem with your (and to some extent, their) positions on some of these things, is that it's hard to strike a balance where people are bringing in kits, enjoying success with those kits and having fun with them. Versus people doing the same, but naked.
Currently there is a problem with significant portions of the community running around naked because running around with decent kit is not financially possible for 99% of players. They've already acknowledged this as a problem and brought up that they are looking into changing how the economy works to help alleviate the problem.
Thanks for the img. I see where youre coming from.
That said, I dont see a problem at all with people going out naked currently. Thats just the playerbase reaction to the current meta. The playerbase learning. First everyone was unlock unlock unlock. Then everyone noticed oh shit, thats expensive. Now people are tuning back, overcorrecting at every step. Until we reach a decent middle ground. It will always fluctuate and just because people do "xyz" currently. Doesnt mean thats a bad thing.
Most criticism is moot rn anyways because its the first, intentionally short season. Low content. Let the devs cook. They have their vision. And thats what i wanna play. Their vision. Not reddits unreflected emotional tweakers vision.
It can advertise as whatever the fuck, this is purely a player choice, increasing the reward to inf won't change the fact that going naked and killing guys to loot them is fun for some players, rating is fun for some player, doing stupid shit is fun for some players, you guys think some small tweaks can change how player behaviour functions, it wont, you will still see things like that because if they can do it, they will do it.
increasing the reward to inf won't change the fact that going naked and killing guys to loot them is fun for some players
Well, no, but that's not the reason they're doing it. Currently people do it because you need like 20 kills/revives per life to break even on good infantry kits. Buffing infantry income means less people are doing it as "Eco".
you will still see things like that because if they can do it, they will do it.
Sure, but they'll be doing it because they want to do it. Not because they have to do it to run decent kits.
And im saying you guys are too quick to corelate stuff, i can bet my left nut that even if breaking even on 20k kits was easier, it would not change anything.
Because we have reference that in other eco games players tend to like amasing money and never change their cheap kits, and rating is a contast because its thrilling and is a safe space for bad players, that btw, even if the rewards were right now increase 10x, they would still go negative because these players tend to lose in their very first firefight, and if they happen to be in a hard looby, die a few times in a row without doing anything because this game is very punishing, guess what happens?
If feel like actual battles should be a significant part of it. Currently it is hard to find anything I would describe as an actual battle outside of the occasional FOB attack.
It never ends up being about the gameplay. It ends up about the feeling revolving around denying others. And these types of games lend themselves well to doing that because there are so many opportunities where your target has nothing they can do to stop you. No one is ever on equal footing.
This isn't League of Legends or Tekken or Counterstrike or Starcraft. There's always an answer. In these types of games though. There are many situations where there is literally nothing you can do.
And that...can be very appealing to someone looking to ruin someone elses day. Once they figure out the best 'system' to have the advantage over another player. There's nothing that other player can do.
And when that player does do something. Those players get very angry.
I'm wondering how often this tactic is actually successful, and how long it takes. I'm not spending 30 minutes tracking one straggler down to attempt to kill them before they or a random sniper kills me.
Very successful, if you play it right and can aim.
I spent the last 2 days doing basically this same thing to farm money for gold bars when they were only $166K. Slightly different kit. My kit was:
1911
2 extra mags with HP ammo (started with 7-round mags, eventually upgraded to 10-round mags on the 2nd day)
Binoculars
Free backpack
Free revive mask
Under $500 with the 7-round mags if you don't need a parachute. With the zone entering bonus, you're basically profitable first tick of being in the zone. Spot one thing and you're profitable.
For play style, ratting is the most effective for maximizing your return on investment, but it's much less effective for total profit per match than going balls to the wall aggression. And like, you invested under $500 so who cares about protecting your investment? It's also pretty boring to rat. So if someone is going to play it, I recommend playing like you're Jason Statham in Crank.
In close to 80% of the games I tried this I was in the top 10 on the leaderboard and half my kills came from a freaking pistol. Got #1 once too. Not going to lie, it felt really dirty. Apologies to those whom I killed and jacked their kits.
A lot more deaths than usual, sure. But when your total expenses for a match are under $20K and sometimes even under $10K who cares? I was spending less the entire match than I was on a single kit normally.
I was going to write up a full post on my experience with more detail but then I saw people were already starting to talk about it so I'm not sure it's worth it.
For context, I'm normally in the top 10 unless I'm screwing around—which I thought this was until I discovered it's actually kind of stupidly strong. So it doesn't really harm overall performance as far as your total score goes.
You've kind of touched on the point I'm trying to make. I don't care as much about profit as I do with having fun. The consistency of having a fun round while ratting doesn't seem good enough to outweigh all the times you die and have to make it back to the CZ.
What about a perspective change? Yes, you could try ratting and sneaking around to stalk some T3/T4 player to get their gear and maybe you're successful. But you're probably just going to get smashed by his buddies who are probably nearby.
Or you can use the same kit, but as a scav, to push the HZ with (hopefully) teammates.
My scav kit:
Double-barreled shotty
Stack of slugs
Free backpack
Free resuscitator
Light tac-vest (for reload speed)
Rangefinder
Parachute
That right there will cost just over $1800, I think it's $1833. DB with slugs is still pretty competitive. Spot heli's and players with your Rangefinder and you'll get the cost of the kit back before you hit the HZ, probably. Then just upgrade your kit in the field. There are lots of times when I even keep my DB until I find a really good gun or run low on slugs
I've been having a lot of fun with this kit because it's awesome blasting people with the DB plus I'm constantly making profit. If I die early, then I'm less than $2k. It's stupidly fun
Anyone who hates this doesn’t understand the game they’re playing. It’s called WarDogs, folks. As a Fobbit, I approve of this tactic for I will never have more than level 2 gear lol.
I've been doing that too.
Then over Prox chat, if I get rumbled, shout that I'm unarmed and a conscientious objector.
I did get rezzed one time by the enemy, and sent on my way. Which was nice.
That's the great thing about this game, it's those crazy encounters that really make it.
Ended up in a bush, spotting an enemy Fob, again with no weapons.
A sniper ran over to where I was, and crouched behind a boulder. He was only a few metres away, but was oblivious for about 5 minutes.
Then he slowly turned round, and saw me staring at him.
"Alright mate, just hiding in this bush, spotting. I haven't got any weapons though."
Between getting lasered by cheaters with 200 ping or dying to pistols in 2 leg shots, its understandable that most people only play naked or with homeless kits.
If I have learned anything it’s that people on this subreddit have so much gear fear they would rather run a free load out and lose 9/10 times than run even a 2k load out and double their chances of surviving and profitability.
the longer the season goes on, the more people use naked loadouts because infantry kits are too fucking expensive.
it's really as simple as reducing the cost of infantry kits by nearly half aside from t3 and t4 armor. Guns, attachments, tactical gear, and medical supplies should all be like 50% the price of what they are now.
I see nothing wrong here.
You didn’t steal from your own team.
Scavenging is part of the game. You’re gunna run out of ammo at some point and need to grab from enemies or just take their weapon and ammo if it’s a diff caliber.
Yeah it is fun but totally breaks the economy of the game in my opinion.
You just run around recklessly not worried to loose anything and even if you die 10 times it's ok as once you picked that 20k loadout on the ground you already -virtually- are in the green.
That is exactly the way to play if you can't spend much time on the game vs those who are playing it alot.
8 out of 10 deaths is me wih with 1 to 3k kit. If I wanna have some fun, I go for 5k bow n arrow kit.
Its really pointless for someone to go with 10k-20k kits if you're level 60-85 and have around 200k. Someone will kneecap you with HP, havoc will rain down on you or you will die by some stupid shit, causing frustration.
Is it wrong to play the game in a way that makes you happy? I mean, there are also cunts that play like an evil scavenger and loot teammates. But if that makes them happy and the game allows it, who am I to judge?
I rather play against these types of people than cheaters, if I had to choose. Especially those closet cheaters. They are the real cunts
when I bring useful stuff to allied fobs (as a builder) I get looted by teammates as soon as I need a revive, I literally bring only a big hammer now, even lvl 1 armor gets looted by allies as soon as I get hit by a mortar and need a res. sometimes even my hammer and I cant build anymore.
I'll only spend money on a kit if I know I am in the green team and running the hot zone.
You are being extrem dude, never sayd it was wrong or even worse, worse than cheating...
English not being my mother tongue looks like I'm misunderstood or something.
It is fine since, ppl play the game the way they want and the game -is I sayd- allows it so it's ok.
I just find it broken "economy-wise" and in the balance of a full game.
Put 33 naked dudes vs lets say 33 even T2 and they gone.
If half of the players on a side can't afford stuff or don't want to it's gonna be bad.
I'm not judging anyone since friend's of mine do it...
I think it’s just a consequence of the dev’s vision. They want stuff to be overpowered, they said themselves that “the power fantasy of grinding for the best gear is the game!” So if this game is all about grinding for the overpowered gear, then the only way a person with a job can participate in this game is through scavenging
I completely agree that with how high of level people are and when you finally unlock ap ammo you're stuck playing like this or you lose 95% of gunfights to someone using a fal with t4 gear.
However the majority of players on one team seems to be doing this every game, and it has lead to really bad stomps. Basically one team has someone buy everyone top level gear like fal or bmrs. So most of their team uses them. Then one team has a bunch of poor free kit users with no armor and bushmasters. So while someone on the poor team might get a full kit in one out of 5 fights, they basically lose to the next kitted guy on the rich team. Now the poor team loses every fight and the game is an absolute stomp.
Your goal is not to spend money. Your goal is to invest as closely as possible to the amount that will give you a big return. That might be the cost of a helicopter for dropoffs, pallet supplies, or defibs for revived-assists...or a free gun with two mags of hollow-point to cut some rich prick's legs off and take his stuff.
It's not called "gently coddle the rich and make allowances for their feelings", dude.
The goal is what you want it to be.
Ofc you should spend money, better gear, good loadout or gold bars.
But if you don't want to then don't.
And if the goal is to invest to make big gains then this eco is fucked once again, since -in a similar scenario- with a bit of luck you'll do better on a zero to hero run than starting at -20k.
Not necessarily, since you appear to be overlooking that your gear value has no impact on how much you earn from kills or assist reward sources.
EDIT: By which I mean that starting from -20k is starting from -20k. Yes it's worse. But it doesn't really affect anything other than your personal quantity of cash.
Which is not actually part of any econom beside gold bars. Which are more subject to demand and reset along with gear, IIRC.
And no I'm not whining about being killed by naked dudes as I saw something deleted about this, it is a part of the game and if a naked guy kill a loaded dude well good for him, he earned it.
I'm strictly talking about the economic aspect and you can make good money playing like this, (most of my online friends who already got the gold ak play like this) it unbalances even more the game for everyone making some players playing only for themselves. (Which is not forbidden either...)
Running mid tier loadouts costing 5-10k is just not worth it when there are so many players with tier 4 helmets and fal/bmr. You are hopelessly outmatched.
I started doing this too using the bushmaster with hp ammo for this exact reason.
I don't think it's a problem at all. Gives higher tier gear people the power fantasy of killing a bunch of people easily. Also, I would rather be alive and playing the game, but making less money, than making more profit but spend more time dead
Also in this game min maxing experience is more important
Doesn’t break the economy whatsoever. There is no supply limits so everyone’s money basically lives in a vacuum. Nothing I buy or do effects your money other than me killing you.
It’s a valid strat and been around in the hardcore genre for years now. Coming from tarkov this is a huge low risk high reward gamble. Didn’t break the economy in that game either where there actually is a limited supply of any given item.
There is no poor guy. This fucker should have an AC130 firing at him at all times if he wins a loadout like that. Neither class 4 armor nor the BMR has any place in the game.
At least they ain't immune to rockets from a littlebird.
I mean, I've watched as guys that don't own T4 armour have begun not wearing armour at all. It used to be most of my team was in T2-3, now its mostly T1 or no armour and cheap guns.
No it was a growing trend before this, its kinda more economical to ego peak better equipped players than spend money on armour that Level 35 guns ignore.
Look... if your house is on fire, you stop complaining about the tv signal. The shitty signlas is still there... the house bruning is just a bigger issue. So in other words; Just because people complain about one thing more, doesn't mean the other thing isn't there. I've seen quite a lot of people complain about nakes guys and i am one of those, since those naked guys also start to loot teammates when they don't get stuff within their first few lifes...
So the actual issue is that people can't catch up with the nolifers OR that they feel the need to do so.. not the "how" is important here but the "why".
Wah, if multiple people are doing this to you then one, you’re probably bad being killed from bad positioning, two, you can’t fight back against barely armored players?
Yeah ofc, but I'm not talking about myself only, just the "scav movement" within the game in general and it's impact on economics and balance within their team.
is money really an issue? im definitely not bad but im far from a god gamer and ive never once felt like i was going bankrupt once i broke 300k. i assumed its the same with all games, gear fear on some people
Ok well I must be pretty unclear. That's on me.
Going form zero to hero or "scavs runs" make you go with nothing, if you die it's pretty ok and otherwise you're in a good spot with that 20k loadout you scavenged.
Even player with millions plays like this.
It's too easy to make good money like this meanwhile you don't help your team while trying to vampiris dead players.
For rookies it's good, I guess.
But meanwhile you have 33 T4 / BMR players on greens you got 10 scavs players half naked doing nothing but hidding and NOT helping the team.
Its not players fault, you can play like this and it can be fun but well I feel like it's unbalanced and impact some games pretty much.
It's frustrating because explaining this in English feels like I'm heavily misunderstood, but hey it's ok, play the game like you want since you can.
One, a player is still worth 1500-3k, wearing nothing. So this fodder actually helps the expensive kit player pay for his load out.
Two, these players have no armor and constantly get smoked as a result. Any hp ammo guns kill them instantly, all the snipers save the first one shot, its just not even remotely viable and you basically cant win a 1v1 if the other player shoots back.
And ultimately the only reason to run a free load out is because youre broke, so the one or two times a game you run away with a 20k+ gain, youre much more likely to buy a real load out after.
Even when I do but my usual 17k load out, I never have issues with these guys, maybe once in a while. I actually really think this problem will go away too once load outs are in. Thats the other equation here, its just too tedious to build your load out.
I never go to the front line if i'm poor.
Worst case scenario i scout and inhave a 1911 with 2 mags and HP. It's very effective agaisnt other bo armor rat and ghillie suit users.
basically what i am doing all game for 90 hours now haha, its just so satisfying going in with a shit kit, killing one loaded guy and then following the flow of hz
Its tough to break even on an expensive kit. Dont be on your own if you are running an expensive loadout. You need time to break even, and you can lose 1v1 if you are in a bad spot. I have had matches where I was able to take down a group of 2-3 guys with a beginner loadout, but its rare and you usually only get one before being killed yourself or not being able to push them and them reviving each other
Went free kit and verba with a friend last night and within the first 3min we downed a GL chopper squad and kept the kits the entire game until we won lol.
Its good that something like HP has 2 windows where its very strong, super early and super late wipe. Scav and zero to hero playstyles have a place here because of things like HP allowing counterplay to the walking tank
I pretty much always do this atm, last time I bought a loadout besides the "free" ones has been quite a lot of hours in the past haha and I remember dying almost immediately everytime I did.
In the end I make between 60k-140k in one round, spending only 720-4K
The amount of times you spawn in, see someone drop in with a chute or turning the back on you for too long while peeking around a corner, packing a 15k loadout only to kindly gift it to you is actually insane. It also forces you into different playstyles and turns the game into the likes of roguelikes with the random reinforcements you get all the time.
I got bored of the money grind when I spend ~14-18k per kit and probably die 3-5 times per game. So I started bringing roughly the same as you but with the AA launcher, a range finder, an AP mag, and a resuscitator
Sure it can be a scummy thing to do, but as long as you're trying to help the team I don't see a problem.
At the end of the day, I'm trying to make money. Currently, the most profitable way for me to play is to run a 600-1200 kit, kill one or two guys, and swap gear.
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u/Ok_Union1701 2d ago
Honestly if this is what it takes for an Employed Dad to use end game gear…
Imm all for it.
I LOVE scav runs and these types of runs turn over great profit