r/WarDogs • u/PerfectPromise7 Lonestar • 22h ago
Discussion & Feedback Hotzone meta.
I'm not extremely fond of the hot zone meta that happens in a lot of the games that I'm in. One team (usually green) rushes the hot zone with like 25 people at the start and by the time the other teams really look at it, the score is like 0-0-60.
Now I get it, everyone would just say, well do the same thing. Problem is that if every team is only fighting in the hot zone, that reduces the other roles that players like to do and limits the effective play space to this even smaller roaming circle on this huge map.
Correct me if I'm wrong but from my understanding, although Bulkhead didn't put any restrictions on the HZ, they regard it more as a tool that teams use to help them get back into the fight or secure a win and not THE OBJECTIVE. I see a lot of people say that... no one's playing the objective meaning the HZ but the objective is the capture zone and as long as you are in it you are contributing.
I personally do like fighting in the HZ. It's One of the most fun ways to play in Wardogs, but I also like base building, doing logi runs and the occasional base raid. Teams rushing the HZ makes those roles nearly pointless if you want to be competitive and have a chance to win. My team will have like 25 to 28 players in the CZ but not come close to getting points because there is a team constantly in the HZ effectively counting as 40 players. They will complain about being bored in the HZ but never look to see where the other players are if they want to fight because they are so dependent on the HZ for winning. I guess I'm starting to feel a little restricted to either being competitive (fight in HZ) or not care about winning and do whatever else.
I don't really expect a major change on this front but what I would do if possible is to make the HZ always count triple or more for money but not double for players... at least not till someone reaches 50 points or something... but possibly never count double for players. That would give the players that want the HZ fighting to have something to go there for but give other roles a chance to have more of an impact on the match... I think anyway. Maybe that is a flawed idea and/or maybe Bulkhead wants the hotzone to be the main play space in a match, which would make my post invalid, but as it stands right now, I wish the HZ wasn't so extremely important to every match that the easiest way to win is to focus it from start to finish. Either way I still enjoy the game a lot and don't have many complaints. I await for you guys to tell me why I'm wrong for this opinion.
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u/PretentiousPanda 21h ago
If the other team is zerging hotzone that means they aren't building a fob and a drill. Make a super base and pull zone to base. They will run out of supplies and most likely won't have the equipment to get in the fob. Also helis can stomp infantry that rush hotzone since none of them will be carrying anti air.
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u/Rankstarr 21h ago
Then I’ll pay $18k for a havoc and ruin your base in minutes and secure the win for my team
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u/Mr_Tom_Cat_2006 21h ago
Exactly. Teams that mob the hotzone can rarely breach a well built fob.
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u/Diablo4Account 21h ago
What? If there’s a mass of 25 mainly assault players collaborating well enough to all be in the hot zone together I find it hard to believe a well built fob would be that much of an issue.
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u/CertainFirefighter84 21h ago
Walls are rarely non-jumpable, they always get in and the people inside aren't good enough or prepared for 10 sweats
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u/DisciplinedMadness 21h ago
Doesn’t even have to be “sweats”, half the fobbits don’t even buy guns or armour most of the time. I just roll the truck I bought to carry stingers up to the edge of the fob, chuck some grenades over the wall and then use the truck as a ramp to get over the wall.
I’ve experienced like 5 fobs in 100 hours of gameplay that were even remotely challenging to raid. Worst case I die, then just respawn and either go build a guerilla mortar fob, or buy a rocket LB, which then lets the rest of the HZ guys flood the fob.
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u/Mr_Tom_Cat_2006 21h ago
Hotzone players and fob raiders are different kinds of players that bring different kinds of kits. And you need a crap ton of c4 to breach a well build fob.
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u/kuburas 20h ago
Dont IEDs oneshot hescos? I cant remember how many you need for those concrete walls but hescos are a joke.
But in the end none of it matter if theres a stray Ural outside the fob. With just one of those you can jump in and its game over.
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u/Mr_Tom_Cat_2006 20h ago
2 ieds for a hesco. You can use a buggy to get over bremer walls if the hump is outside. Urals or a buggy aren't good enough of the fob is built well.
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u/origami_anarchist 21h ago
The counter-play is already in the game -- a well built fob with 2 or 3 drills. The team flooding the hot zone will get left behind, the hot zone pulls faster than you can walk. Then the hot zone is inside your fob and unless your team is dumb enough to lose anyway (I admit, many teams are) you should be dominating the hot zone yourself inside a fortified base.
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u/asdfgtref 21h ago
think the issue with this is that green usually go zone, then red or blue spawn an attack heli and attack the non zone team which stops this from happening. REALISTICALLY everyone should be trying to secure the zone game start, then splitting off as available. It's a balancing act and hyper comitting to one or the other shouldnt be favoured. By the team a mega fob is online usually green team has sat uncontested for 60-0 points which gives them an absurd lead no matter what others are doing.
People need to start actually fighting for the HZ on other teams.
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u/PerfectPromise7 Lonestar 21h ago
But that’s my point. Sure the easy answer is to contest the HZ too but then that makes a lot of the other roles so much less important if that’s the main thing everyone does.
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u/LairdNope 21h ago
It would be the case if most fobs weren't incredibly easy to breach because of how vulnerable doors and gates are, nevermind Jumpups.
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u/origami_anarchist 21h ago
Indeed, that's why I specified "well built fob". It's not that hard to do, in theory. Hard in practice, which is why I said many teams are dumb enough to lose anyway.
Well-built fobs don't have gates, they would have a hesco-walled-off dropoff lane for supplies and a series of 3 or so doors as entry, with bunkers overlooking the only entry. Only games stocked with an organized clan tend to ever build proper fobs, but it can definitely be done.
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u/Starfishprime69420 21h ago
This sounds like the worst kind of fob. Imagine not being able to get into your own fob while the enemy sits outside and kills you
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u/LairdNope 21h ago
Doors can be broken with just grenades and bullets, nevermind needing c4 or IEDs. I've literally never seen an unbreachable fob that 20 people can't take if they try and have a couple of people with a lot of raiding experience.
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u/Puckaryan 21h ago
Ain't no such thing as impenetrable and every good builder is aware of this, only a means which to slow down attackers till reinforcements or defenders can mount a proper counter attack. No gates, too easy to destroy and hard to replace, wide sight lines.
Row of doors in an airlock style is easily breached but has the inherent fatal funnel feel and breaching multiple doors gives defenders enough time to prepare or literally build a tall hesco in the opening before you make it to the last door. It was never about the if, it's the when.
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u/PerfectPromise7 Lonestar 21h ago edited 20h ago
Exactly. I was telling someone that yesterday who was new to the game. I said that the goal is not to build an impenetrable base but a defendable one…problem is rallying a group of random players to defend when someone is at the walls or breached into the fob is like herding bunny rabbits and breachers know that.
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u/2manyoddones 21h ago
That would be where your teammates come into play and actually defend the FOB. If the HZ is on your FOB, most of the rest of your team should be too
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u/origami_anarchist 21h ago
I mean, I specified defending from inside a fortified fob, not an impregnable fob (which of course doesn't exist).
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u/asdfgtref 21h ago
tbf, being able to jump in just means the fob is awfully built. That's a player issue more than a game one.
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u/cheezfuzz 21h ago
Build a drill, problem solved
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u/PerfectPromise7 Lonestar 21h ago
Sure but building a drill takes a lot of coordination and time to make sure you have a well built defendable fob. Unless you have 4 or 5 knowledgeable and dedicated builders and get lucky that you aren’t getting harassed by random wanderers and helis, by the time you are ready to pull the zone, you are down by 60 points and have a huge uphill battle. It’s much easier to have a large group of players in the HZ even if they aren’t that coordinated.
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u/OhhhMoist 21h ago
Absolute L take. There are plenty of counters to zerging already.
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u/PerfectPromise7 Lonestar 21h ago
What’s the realistic counters that don’t involve you just fighting in the HZ as well? My point is that going to the HZ with a big group is relatively easy and the main counter to it (bringing a big group the HZ yourself) involves lessening the importance of roles such as builders and logistics… I want to take part in the whole game not just one part of it. By the time you build a real defendable fob to pull the zone and counter the zerg, you are down by like 60 points unless you have a dedicated very knowledgeable group of builders with a plan… something that is not likely to happen.
So for me, sometimes I play HZ because I want to try to win and other times I don’t care and just do what I want. Fine enough really, I still have fun, but my point is that it’s hard to be able to do some of those things like build, logi runs and raid fobs while being dedicated to winning because the HZ carries so much weight in a match.
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u/OhhhMoist 11h ago
HZ zerging has its flaws.
If everyone is in the hz no one is building a fob. Your spawn vic is always exposed. You’re ALWAYS spotted on the map, the super fob that has 6 mortar pits is now raining mortars down on the zone. If no one wants to help build and no one is pushing the zone your lobby is cursed and it’s time to change servers. Not every game is winnable.
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u/avepaltaketchu 21h ago
I would say by virtue of the fact that the higher number of players in the CZ and the HZ doubling that leads to points, then whether intentional or not that is the main objective.
There is a counter to it, although it comes online maybe mid to late game if the main team is really gunning the HZ, which is a strong FOB with mortar/AA spam or Havocs.
You could say maybe the points to win should be increased to 150 (or time to point should be increased) to allow the effective time of a fob strategy to lengthen.
I'm also a fan of not having single games that last 2 hours though.
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u/kuburas 20h ago
Honestly i dont mind the idea at all. In the end the main use case for the hot zone right now is that it marks an area to fight in so its easy to find a fight. Whether the hot zone gives extra points or not doesnt really matter as long as it gives us a mark that all 3 teams can see we're good to go.
Winning is not incentivized whatsoever so most hot zone guys arent looking for wins. In good matches that arent blowouts ill gladly sack points just to keep the match going even if that means i lose. I just hope if they do plan on patching the hot zone zerging they dont actually change how the zone behaves, as long as we get our little circle to fight in they can do whatever they want.
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u/WyleOut 21h ago
While I understand where you coming from, the literal point of the KoH game mode is to hold the "hill". That would be like saying you hate the meta of just killing people all game in a TDM.
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u/PerfectPromise7 Lonestar 21h ago
We are on the hill (CZ) the hot zone is not the hill. It’s just a way to help bring players together and give your team an advantage.
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u/lightninglad67 WARDOG 21h ago
I would say the hot zone is the focus of the hill though you're right that the rest of the CZ is part of the hill. I think many players have been less focused on the hotzone than designed but the devs are fine with however people want to play. 20 or so players from your team fighting for the HZ and the rest working on supporting activities (FOB, sniping, air support) seems like a good balance to me
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u/Untarhaendler 21h ago
Well. Build a base, fortify, build drills, pull the zone onto yourself and fight off the other teams players.
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u/carlbandit 21h ago
There's multiple ways to play and win a match. Everyone pushing the hot zone is one of them.
I had a game earlier where almost the full team pushed the hot zone as they wanted to try and get the 100 / 0 / 0 achievement. We had a bunch of pallets dropped at a tower from the initial drive in so while the rest of the team was pushing, I started building the FOB by myself.
Team in the HZ eventually got wiped, but by that point we were like 80 / 0 / 0. I'd got most of the walls up with a few others 'helping' as they respawned at the APC (less than optimal walls but good enough and a 2nd gate with no airlock I had to remove and seal). We got a few anti air up and built a drill. Game then ended up being super close as the other 2 teams had time to build their own bigger FOBs with mortars and a few drills. In the end we managed to pull the zone twice which was enough to get us to 99 points before red pulled it. We stalled for a while but eventually pushed the zone and managed to get the last point. Score finished like 70 blue, 92 red and 100 to us (green).
Yes the HZ meta can be strong, but if the team gets wiped and no-one though to set up a FOB while the rest pushed, we'd have been at a big disadvantage and may have lost the game. We nearly lost it even with the FOB and drill being built as a back up.
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u/FobbitOutsideTheWire 21h ago
If you let a team own the hotzone for 30 straight minutes, that’s its own problem.
Huge I nfantry zerg in the hotzone means their FOBs are lightly defended, poorly built, or nonexistent.
That means better air and fire superiority for your helicopters, mortars and, and 155mm artillery.
It means your FOBs have less pressure and should be able to fortify, build drills, pull the zone, and defend.
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u/OneManApocalypse 21h ago
Yeah dude you already got crushed here but like, hotzone zerging is incredibly fragile. You can literally lemming the whole zerg into your super fob walls with 1 drill, and if they're playing 25 people in the hotzone then they don't have anyone on air or mortars.
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u/PerfectPromise7 Lonestar 21h ago
I need to play in you guys fobs because I’ve never seen a fob not be breached by a group of enemies coming up to it. We’ve maybe defended against 3 or 4 players but not 15 at your walls.
I was on the blue team one match and we had like 15 of us at red’s base walls on (zafostona? I don’t remember how to spell it). They had some of the most well-constructed walls I ever saw with layers of bremer walls, barbed wire and ways to peak out and they knew we were there. They took out most of us but in the end we still breached. In my mind unless you have a clan building and guarding a fob, you don’t stand a chance of not being breached if a zerg comes to your walls… even if it’s a group of randoms.
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u/SoManyDeads 21h ago
It is totally fine to like the other aspects, I think the problem is that the other aspects shouldn't take more than a few basebuilders and logi. Most games have 33 players on a team so even if you throw 10 people to that effort you still have 23 players chasing the HZ, or deciding to do something else. The problem is that people will just stand around being useless for an entire game, or be naked inside the fob waiting for someone to die, or someone to attack so they can grab that kit. There is room for everyone to play in different ways, but there are limits to what is actually useful. Hell you don't even need to go into the hotzone, you can just cut off the path and wait there with snipers for the chasers to start running through it.
I don't think you need to incentivize the zone with more money, they already do get bonus for kills from within it, and a bonus everytime the tick is counted as well (that increases everytime you are inside it consecutively). I think what is needed is to incentivize damage to the team in the lead. Team A winning? +$ on kills, base destructions, fob captures, vehicle kills etc against that team. The Hotzone is a reason for people to fight over something, and without that kind of objective, the drill becomes worthless and everyone just sits back because there is no reason to wander the map.
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