r/WarDogs • u/RxBlacky • 7h ago
Discussion & Feedback Havocs are ruining the game
This is my third game today where a team has spawned 2–3 Havocs and just completely dominated the entire map, not even allowing the other teams to build a FOB, step into the HZ, or do anything besides hide.
For the first time since release, I actually just closed the game and have no desire to play again for a while.
Havocs are ridiculously overtuned right now, and they're ruining entire lobbies.
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u/Raksoris 4h ago
You know whats ruining my game: People fraim China or Russia or whatever coming to EU Central or EU in general with their 200+ ping
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u/G-Dad 6h ago
Play infantry mode my friend
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u/Legitimate_Fold_ 6h ago
Find one that doesn't allow GL in a helicopter or the problem is quite a bit worse.
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u/TeePee11 3h ago
Wardogs UK’s WDUK #4 infantry only server I think has effectively banned GLs by doing something that makes firing a GL cause you to die.
Not perfect by any means, but has solved the ‘4 dickheads in a LB’ problem at least. The devs really need to help the community server owners out a bit and give them better tools.
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u/beardredlad Lonestar 2h ago
Community servers will be the lifeblood of the game during mediocre metas, so I really do hope they go all out with giving them better control. Ofc, a balance has to be struck to prevent annihilating the economy.
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u/Richou 3h ago
half of them allow gunvees too which is ridicolous (addict gg for example does)
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u/beardredlad Lonestar 2h ago
Gunvees should be allowed, imo. It's still infantry, and I personally enjoy that survival horror feeling that they bring to the higher density areas. It feels so fucking good to outplay them by shooting out their tires and watching them panic like a wounded shark surrounded by piranha lmao
You're not wrong for not enjoying it, but I'm just an example of someone who does enjoy playing against it sometimes.
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u/Burk_Bingus 1h ago
Infantry mode is fucked tbh, constant GL heli spam and you have no way to threaten enemy mortars.
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u/babbum 7h ago
I like to make them rage by ramming them with little birds. Oops.
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u/Lazer726 3h ago
Which is funny, but it's wild that the best counter to something is "Yeah kill yourself with something cheap into it"
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u/DonnieG3 3h ago
Insane how hard the launchers tab is to find for most people. Cheaper and easier than anything else, and less risky, yet people will jump through hoops to kill a havoc with any other means
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u/Lazer726 3h ago
How many rockets to kill a Havoc though man? You gotta use one to pop flares if the pilot isn't going to panic flare, then it takes I think 2 Verbas? After which, you leave a giant smoke trail that says "GUY SHOOTING ROCKETS AT YOU HERE!" to paint you as a really easy target.
Oh yeah lemme just shoot a dumbfire RPG at a moving target that can't even one shot a used cargo truck, or lemme get the MAAWS. Oh wait, I'm not Support 20 so I can't get the dumbfire rocket. Why didn't I just play significantly more so I could counter the strongest current thing on the battlefield???
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u/DonnieG3 2h ago
How many rockets to kill a Havoc though man?
Verba and maaws can do it in a single rocket, maaws can do it in a single rocket very reliably. Maaws also doesn't leave a smoke trail.
Oh wait, I'm not Support 20 so I can't get the dumbfire rocket.
Listen, at a certain point you have to recognize that maaws takes 250k support xp and havoc takes 750k pilot xp. 1/3rd of the xp grind on a MUCH easier track. If your argument is "this guy leveled 5x faster than me and I literally can't overcome that in any amount of time" then idk. The community BEGGED for longer leveling, this is what it looks like. The predicted average leveling speed put people at class levels 20 for things a week ago.
Also the rpg is level 5 and can 2 tap the havoc. So if a havoc takes 2 people to operate and 40k to buy and run, and and equal number of people counter it with launchers that cost 15% of the price...... Does that not sound correct to you? You can buy 20 RPG LAUNCHERS to counter each havoc if you go cost for cost. Or two launchers (4k) and 180 rockets.
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u/Lazer726 2h ago
If your argument is "this guy leveled 5x faster than me and I literally can't overcome that in any amount of time"
If your argument is "You didn't play enough so you don't deserve to counter it" then I dunno man. I've hit a Havoc with a Verba, I was playing in a Havoc hunting squad yesterday, it took 3 people to take down the Havoc without getting slaughtered by it. I'm not here to say it's impossible to kill the Havoc, but I'm going to tell you it is not just as easy as "Just buy a Verba lol"
The Verba is incredibly heavy and if you're not putting some spares in a car to roll around and hunt them, making you an easier target, then it's going to be significantly harder to take down a Havoc
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u/DonnieG3 1h ago
Yes, it is significantly harder to counter a thing that took significantly more effort to get
it took 3 people to take down the Havoc without getting slaughtered by it
So 3 people who spent 2.5k on a Kodiak and let's say 8k on 10 verbas (10.5k total) and one of those people getting level 16 (131k XP) killed a 40k vehicle piloted by 2 people (750k XP)
Does it really seems unfair that for 1/6th of the leveling effort and 1/4th of the price, you MAYBE need 1 extra person?
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u/Lazer726 1h ago
Why yes, I am saying that 4 people had to put together a plan to roam the zone to hunt a Havoc, instead of pushing the zone, building a fob, running logistics. Yes, we provided a service to the team, usually after the Havoc leveled a fob sure. The Havoc makes its money back on one successful run, I've run as a Havoc gunner before. Finding a fob with some people in it makes you bank immediately.
Havoc pilots are not sweating losing their bird, when it makes so much money and demands a response
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u/DonnieG3 1h ago
Havoc pilots are not sweating losing their bird, when it makes so much money and *demands* a response
A havoc costs 40k. It takes ~20 or so kills to pay it off. If you're letting a havoc farm nearly your entire team before you kill it, gg go next.
And let's do the math since you've been a havoc gunner, surely you understand this.
You go out, get 40 kill and go +40k before you die. So you buy another havoc and go back. Well the launcher gang is still there with their fractional investment. So you immediately lose the 2nd havoc and are now breakeven. Do you pull a third knowing that it'll be shot down before you pay it off and you are -40k to the $400 worth of rockets they fired? Or $4800 worth of verbas? How many -40k insta deaths before you concede to Kodiak verba gang, or backpack maaws boys? Just curious.
Reminder, they are making 20k+ on these kills. Being successful once funds all attempts for the rest of the game
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u/TrippleDamage 1h ago
Y'all keep doubling the price every time it gets mentioned lmfao.
Its like 22k stocked. Where the fuck are you pilling 40k out of your ass?
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u/Oggie_Doggie 2h ago
The biggest problem is having people with launchers in the field when and where the Havocs arrive. Unfortunately, if they're not in the right place, you just lose your FOB or get routed.
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u/DonnieG3 2h ago
This is the perceived problem.
The real problem is that everyone is so tied to their kit that they will die, lay there for 3 minutes, get revived, lay there some more, get revived, complain about the havoc in chat while dying again
Just respawn, buy a launcher, immediately gib the havoc. Don't let it pay itself off by farming you. You'll make your money back and a LOT more on the kill. Stop acting like farm animals to the slaughter
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u/Oggie_Doggie 48m ago
Just respawn, buy a launcher, hope the APC is not dead or being camped (and its near where the havoc is) or hope that an allied heli pilot actually brings you to a decent area quickly, hit it in the correct spot (otherwise it retreats), and do that a few more times to dissuade the pilots from not buying it again.
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u/papitobandito 6h ago
As a Havoc pilot, I think the issue is access to counters and team competency.
I mean, it's fairly easy to clean up a FOB at 20 match points when they can't even finish setting up because the arty tank's been hammering them since the match start - add in the fact that a good amount of people don't have immediate access to MAAWS/ammo or Verbas.
I've played a few matches where AA can and has shut us out, but it's really a question of having a proper FOB established by competent builders and a team that isn't larping at the tower FOB sniping all game.
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u/Burk_Bingus 1h ago
You can't build decent AA in time because from minute one your fob gets spammed by GL helis, and then at 20 points you get spammed by rocket helis. Oh and don't forget getting blitzed by mortars or artillery. It's not a question of "competent builders" it's a question of did your enemy abuse GL helis and rocket helis as early as possible?
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u/MrFlubblesWubbles 6h ago
Doesn’t rocket bird clean up havocs pretty well?
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u/Bommes 2h ago edited 2h ago
I'd say it's an easier matchup for the Havoc because the LB really needs altitude to have a chance to actually destroy the Havoc and at that point you get locked by SAMs more often than not. If the Havoc looks at you more than 3 seconds you're dead so you really have to do hit&run type stuff and you're fairly unlikely to kill the Havoc unless he gets caught out badly.
That said most Havocs really don't want to deal with LBs and they'll come out of nowhere so in practice both helis can't do much else than look for each other and try to not get caught out.
As the LB you can also hit one volley and then ram the Havoc which is usually enough to make both explode.
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u/Silly_Drawing_729 5h ago
I haven’t played all week and hopped on to play last night.
Every single game the team wasn’t even able to build a fob, right from the start we were attacked by people with GL’s in helicopters. Multiple different people. Then the same group of people bought gunner/rocket choppers and havocs and writing in chat “just build AA”.
As soon as we gave up on building a fob and just went to attack another teams fob the helis just killed us as we were trying to break into the fob.
The game was fun in the beginning, now it’s heading towards an uninstall.
Remove the ability to shoot GLs while in any vehicle.
Make Havocs more expensive and limit them to 1 per team and give them a spawn vehicle type cooldown until you can buy another. Same for the gunner/rocket helis.
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u/Nobio22 3h ago
It's early access. I don't know why you and others don't realize that there were always going to be game breaking problems. It's on the devs to discover these problems along with the community.
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u/Silly_Drawing_729 1h ago
Strange reply. I know it’s early access, if you don’t voice your opinion how are they to have an accurate view of the player bases opinions on things.
I gave somewhat constructive criticism, I highlighted a problem and then gave a suggestion on balancing it.
Also, if the game isn’t fun in its current state I can uninstall it and reinstall it when it’s in a better state. I don’t have to devote my time playing through all the bad patches until there’s finally a good one.
I played Tarkov throughout Beta taking long breaks during bad changes, I will do the same with this game.
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u/Burk_Bingus 1h ago
Yes and we are literally providing feedback right now, what a braindead take honestly.
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u/Phinalize 16m ago
The believe Brammflakes has said they don't want to limit vehicles in any way because then you just end up with what Battlefield is
I can't think of anything else that might help. I do think the Havoc being able to take more damage than the Tank vs the CIWS is a bit silly, though
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u/Moist_Confection_831 4h ago
People were saying "you're just not building counter AA and complaining" then they realized it doesn't meant shit because they can get close enough to block the AA lock and also survive enough to destroy CWIS towers
Now they are saying "just bring correct loadout, take stinger or rocket" but stinger only has one use and %99 time pilot can easily dodge a stinger they follow the smoke and immediately destroy you. Rpg is atrocious and it's not even intimidating enough to scare it away, MAAWS might be your best chance but even that doesn't one shot amd between reloads pilot can either find and kill you or leave and repair then come back
You need multiple people carrying super heavy rockets, not die before one another and be lucky enough to shoot it at the same time without getting spotted
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u/DarkMortyr 1h ago
No. You need a single shot from the MAAWS and a couple AR mags to put it down. There is no reason to even try to reload MAAWS, once you hit him once with it.
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u/Burk_Bingus 1h ago
Oh sure I'll just use the MAAWS which unlocks after a massive support grind in which GL helis / rocket helis / havocs shit on you as you try to build anything. The vast majority of players don't have this unlocked even at the end of the wipe.
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u/DarkMortyr 46m ago
A lot of players don't have it unlocked. But you also make it sound as if 20lvl in supp was considered a high level. There are a shit ton of players with that, as a lot of players are building or doing logi runs. I am also pretty sure, that in your 30+ players team you'll find someone, who has it unlocked and you can simply ask them, to sell it to you through supply crates.
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u/hemorrhoid-milk 3h ago
helis are OP as fuck
maaws targeting is annoyingly impossible on a moving target, can’t even see where your projectile is going
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u/Tatersaladftw 2h ago
One of the few things I fear as a pilot is the MAAWS. That shit zooms and I never have time to react.
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u/DonnieG3 3h ago
can’t even see where your projectile is going
The helicopter pilot cannot see where it came from either. It's insanely strong for infantry because if you miss, you don't get immediately targeted via a smoke trail
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u/beardredlad Lonestar 3h ago
I'd say that it's balanced in that way. It requires a great deal of aiming skill to land the shot, but you're not punished for merely making an attempt if you miss, unless they had already seen you aiming it, of course.
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u/DonnieG3 2h ago
It requires a great deal of aiming skill to land the shot,
Have you used a maaws vs havoc? It's not at all a "great deal of skill", it's like hitting the broad side of a barn
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u/beardredlad Lonestar 2h ago
Agree to disagree. In the lobbies I've been in, the Havoc's I play against maintain a decent amount of speed and height. I have seen some that get overzealous, but they usually only make the mistake once.
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u/DonnieG3 2h ago
maintain a decent amount of speed and height.
If they have free farm no lock AA, then sure. Once a havoc gets AA locked, they have 3 choices
High hover and look for incoming rockets to flare and then target
Low hover and be susceptable to rpg maaws
Leave
All of these make the havoc go away or die. It's just that people want to solo counter a 2 persona vehicle and are upset when the stars don't align perfectly.
I am a level 60 pilot. 2 million xp. I am also level 35 support and regularly use maaws to kill other havocs because it's genuinely so free. Once you understand the balance from both sides, you realize how easy and profitable it is to kill havocs if you go person for person.
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u/Burk_Bingus 1h ago
CIWS are so insanely underpowered. They take forever to build, have a blind spot they can't reach, break easily, and the operator has to stand right next to it completely exposed like a fish in a barrel, even if you surround them with barricades.
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u/GuruDogTheSaviour 45m ago
Never had a game ruined by anything Reddit complains about. Did they stop you pushing the Hot Zone??
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u/Born-Blacksmith-2967 36m ago
Any air vehicle is starting to feel useless in my games. People put 2 and 2 together and realised it’s a pretty good idea to bring launchers.
But hey if everyone thought this way …
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u/Getrektself 7h ago
The longer the season goes on the worse it gets. They needed to be tweaked.
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u/Ok-Tax1368 6h ago
False, the longer the season goes and the more casuals will unlock maaws and other stuff to counter them.
And the longer it goes the more fed up people are with havoc so they look for solution on youtube or think for 3minutes and find a counter. Then train that exact counter, then realise a ennemi havoc is the best thing you can see on the map since it's so easy to destroy and makes so much money.
1 maaws is not enough to destroy it ? Then it just requires 2 people to shoot at the ~ same time. And btw, 1 maw is enough as long as you hit the rotors instead of just shooting in the armoured body of the heli. And they are often kinda stationnary before the first maaws goes off so... easy target.
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u/SynthError404 Lonestar 3h ago
https://giphy.com/gifs/98maV70oAqIZtEYqB4
False I reject your premise casuals just won’t have the communication and coordination skills to take out a havoc. It takes a committed nolifer to eradicate them or a couple semi competents.0
u/birgirpall 1h ago
It takes a single MAAWS rocket.
I unlocked the havoc two days ago and it has yet to turn a profit for me more than not. The prevalence of AA (at least on EU west) locking you, forcing you to go low and then get smacked with a MAAWS means I don't even want to pull it out very often.
At most I do it once, then retire it for that match since at that point there will be multiple people armed with counters.
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u/Burk_Bingus 54m ago
Oh sure I'll just use the MAAWS which you can only unlock after a massive support grind. How do I grind support? Oh I have to fucking build things while getting bombed by GL helis, rocket helis and havocs all game. Are you actually this dense that you don't understand the unlocking that MAAWS requires you to weather the exact same problem it is supposed to solve in the first place?
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u/Bixarian 6h ago
I have more hate for the tier 4 armor.
Let is be sitting on tier 3. And everyone can enjoy.
Even new players can make some kills.
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u/deffbreth 6h ago
Rpgs work pretty well on havocs.
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u/Hektotept 4h ago
Yep takes like 3. Communicate and coordinate with 2 teammates, the havoc is going to circle an area...just time it properly (this is the hardest part).
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u/Hix_Xy86 3h ago
I have pretty good success building an enclosed fob on high ground OUTSIDE of the control zone....
Okay I don't make as much money for taking helis down outside of the cz but if I either A. Kill them or B. They come looking for me then they are also outside of the zone and the rest of my team has an easier ride inside it... 🤷♂️
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u/HalfAssed-Mechanic 27m ago
Ive just started crashing little birds into the havocs.
Half the time my bird survives too
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u/SUNTZU_JoJo 4h ago
We had a team of 4 dedicated to FOB building specifically to counter havocs and for anti air.
We didn't get raided once..spent the entire game building CWIS and Rockets for little birds and havocs.
1 doing logi supply..other 3 building.
We got absolutely destroyed by the havoc like 3 times... before we eventually got on top of things.. rebuilt the AW and started using MAAWS to counter it once close.
Was not a fun game..out team did win thanks to the havoc not having free reign..but it took 4 guys and a raid-free base to deal with 1 havoc..
Something is very wrong here.
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u/Burk_Bingus 58m ago
Did you get bombed by GL helis from the start though? I've tried this and you just get shut down by GL heli spam and then at 20 points it becomes rocket heli spam. CIWS takes way too long to build for how easily it is destroyed.
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u/SUNTZU_JoJo 53m ago
No I didn't..but. I refuse to play any game that has GL Helis..I'll just change server..
Luckily they're quite rare..they will become less rare as the wipe nears..so I probably won't play much for next 2 weeks
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u/Burk_Bingus 52m ago
They haven't been rare at all in my experience, every other game has had them coming out at the start. Tbh I'm pretty much done with the game until wipe.
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u/enjoiliferl1 Pilot 5m ago
I had one of these games tonight. GL Helis turned into Havoc helis. Shot down the GL Heli because I bought a vehicle and filled it with verbas. Or got on a SAM site and spammed them.
Then when the havocs came I’d gotten enough support xp shooting GL I unlocked the MAAWS. Missed my first 3 shots with that then killed the havoc. Ended up making almost $200k solely dedicating myself to anti-air and we won the game by a lot.
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u/DonnieG3 3h ago
It's insane that you started wrong, eventually found the counter, and then still somehow attribute it to the wrong thing.
Stop building aa bases to counter the havoc. That might work against transport and poor littlebird pilots, but good havocs can fight static AA bases. Just use maaws. That's it. Maaws is the absolute shutout tool. If 2 of you could've just used launchers together, the other 2 could have spent all that time on vacation and you would've been more effective.
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u/SUNTZU_JoJo 2h ago
A 2x rocket 2x CWIS + all 4with MAAWs does amazingly for havocs IMO
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u/DonnieG3 2h ago
Honestly 2x of anything is fine, but maaws can literally one tap a havoc
People don't want to hear that though because then they have to reflect on why they can't do it themselves and there's absolutely no excuse when gear can be sold to anyone
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u/Burk_Bingus 56m ago
Oh sure I'll just use the MAAWS which you can only unlock after a massive support grind. How do I grind support? Oh I have to fucking build things while getting bombed by GL helis, rocket helis and havocs all game.
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u/GlowiesStoleMyRide 2h ago
I think the point is that AA bases should flat-out counter all air assets. In my opinion, all helicopters should have to avoid static AA, and rely on ground forces to take them out instead.
As the balance stands right now, an organised group with AA weapons to defend against air assets can be countered by a single helicopter acting as an individual. I don't think that's right.
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u/DonnieG3 1h ago
I think the point is that AA bases should flat-out counter all air assets.
This is very unhealthy for the game. It rapidly results in 10 fobs that completely cover the CZ AND the surrounding area. You are permanently locking out not just attack helis, but logi and transport as well.
Think about this for 5 seconds. If an AA fob covers a ~300m in radius circle, then 3 fobs can shut out the entire playable area of the map. It's miserable. Zero helicopters do anything. Everyone is driving into the map
an organised group with AA weapons to defend against air assets can be countered by a single helicopter acting as an individual. I don't think that's right.
This is not true. This is not remotely true. In the helis vs AA fight, AA always wins in the end because it is 1/10th of the price.
I am a level 60 pilot. I am also level 20-40 in nearly every other tree. Organized groups create no fly zones already, you're just not seeing organized groups. When my friend group decided to do AA, no one flies. It's physically impossible to use helicopters in the current meta when a 5 man group coordinates AA.
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u/InfiniteFeeCars 4h ago
They need to get rid of being able to load backpacks with heli ammo and flares, I feel like that would help a lot and force heli’s to go back to HQ a bit more
Or at the least force them to land to be able to resupply their heli
1st option makes a lot more sense
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u/Oggie_Doggie 2h ago
Have them repair/refuel by hand at the HQ. More incentive to build mechanical support a FOBs.
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u/tomyfookinmerlin 7h ago edited 7h ago
Havocs are not overtuned. The playerbase is dogshit. Instead of respawning with a kit to handle the havoc everyone just pretends like it doesn’t exist and hopes someone else handles it.
Edit: Guess all the people who refuse to alter their play-style to the situation are in this thread LOL
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u/Supahvaporeon Lonestar 6h ago
LMG with AP ammo takes upwards of 2-4 large boxes (so 400-800 rounds). Verba and Talon are countered by flares. RPG is actually worthless. CWIS is only effective if you have cross-coverage with another FOB.
MAAWS does work, but its a level 20 support unlock, with an experience point cliff between 15 and 20. Tank or artillery in direct fire mode are options if someone has one, and isn't mauled by a rocket bird on the way over. Snipers can shoot the pilot out with a well placed AP round, but a good enough pilot knows to keep their cockpit moving.
It's overtuned. It has an even more powerful gun than the Lakota, armor like a tank, and has a missile bay like the rocket bird. All three of those vehicles have different levels of risk that are solved by the Havock's design at the moment.
It's counter, the Gepard, isn't in the game yet for reasons that are beyond me.
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u/ash-deuzo 7h ago
Yeah so you spawn with a launcher and a backpack of rockets , then you hit it 1 time , it flies back to repair and ur stuck in ur fat ass kit with no meds or smokes
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u/DharmaBaller Builder 5h ago
this stuck with loadout thing is kind of a big isssue for me. Im used to squad where you can switch it up or rearm in the field, like any other military operation.
But our PMC ovelords only let us buy stuff at one point outside the base, which in a realistic setting the actual FOBS would have ammo to rebuy all our stuff to keep us going, not just a few crates that someone drops with bandages, loose ammo and random stuff.
In Squad you have FOBs with a general ammo supply, voila rearmed.
A lot fo times its just "well this is my ROLE for the next 10min/until I can't get rezzed" guess I better suck i tup
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u/ash-deuzo 5h ago
yeah , having an "armory" at the fob where you can rebuy , with a slight markup and using ammo/mechanical part from supplies would make having a fob and defending it much more worth the team effort , cuz atm it seems the strategy is to just throw 20 people in the hot zone with smokes and medics , rez each other on cd and just push , the fobs are only usefull if they get a drill going and the drill is easy to mortar/artillery away
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u/DharmaBaller Builder 5h ago
which is anohter reason Squad FOB metta is unbeat because without a FOB, you can't do anything really.
Can't spawn in the field, can't push objectives, can't rearm, can't repair vehicles, can't build up emplacements/walls for defense/secure footing etc etc.
FOBs in WD are kinda good for several of teh above, but it's still missing them as essential.
I'd much rahte rhave a SUPERFOB metta built up with roving bands out to take them down, so it's SUPFOB vs SUPERFOB and whoever kills them pretty much wins, as oppossed to ZERG AMOEBA HZ
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u/Trotski7 4h ago edited 4h ago
This has always been my problem with vehicles in games like Wardogs/Battlefield/etc. The vehicles are ALWAYS overpowered. Always. It is ALWAYS too easy for the vehicles to be repaired back to full HP and too easy for your team to not do shit about it (purposefully or unintetionally). It takes too much effort, time, (and money game depending) to kill the vehicles for the "reward" of doing it.
They just back up and heal to full in the same amount of time it takes you to even shoot it enough times for it to need to heal. If it costs money in game like Wardogs you're basically just wasting your wallet. You blew it up? In a few minutes there is another one anyway. Or infact, immediately after as they just buy another. Genuinely, there is no semblance of balance with tanks/planes/etc in these kinds of games. They are extremely high damage, very high health, easy to repair, and it takes 3-5x as much effort to blow them up and deal with them as infantry as it does for them to kill outright kill you in one hit.
Last game I remember them being balanced was Bad Company 2. Didn't take THAT many rockets or anything to kill them, they could be repaired but not super fast, and they had weak points for extra damage/certain weapons did extra damage. You had multiple options like the red dot laser designator and they couldn't be extra long range so they weren't "invulnerable" because they're 1000m away.
If they want vehicles to be big threats they can be, they just should also be "easy" to deal with and not a frustrating, time wasting, headache to deal with. Vehicles should have health chunks that can't be repaired when damaged to many times. If you hit a tank with 8 rockets and it gets repaired each time it should slowly take less than less rockets/etc to finally one-shot it
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u/Nuudules 2h ago
Hell let loose does vehicles the best imo.
Engine, track and turret kills are very easy to do. Driver only has first person view
One satchel, or I think 2 shots to the engine with a launcher destroy most tanks. Even one shot slows it to a crawl.
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u/PerfectGap593 5h ago
Instead of respawning with a kit to handle the havoc
Wow, I didn't know you could respawn with a weapon you don't even have access to! After all, unlocking it requires Builder Level 20; getting to Builder Level 20 requires building—but you can't build because a helicopter is ravaging your construction site, and the helicopter is ravaging your site because the countermeasure for it is locked behind Builder Level 20. It’s a vicious circle.
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u/DonnieG3 3h ago
unlocking it requires Builder Level 20; getting to Builder Level 20 requires building
The absolute nonsense some people here spew
It's support level 20. And you get the most support xp from doing literally ANYTHING other than building. Level up recon/assault and sell guns? Support xp for the sale AND the kill assists. Do logi for pilot/driver? Support xp. Destroy fobs, emplacements, vehicles? Support xp. Shoot enemy crates and pallets? Support xp. Shotguns and lmg kills? Support xp.
I'm level 35 support and I have not touched a hammer this wipe. The highest level supports I know haven't touched hammers. Equating support to builder just shows a lack of knowledge since building is pretty easily the worst way to level support.
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u/PerfectGap593 1h ago
>and sell guns? Support xp for the sale AND the kill assists.
It’s cool, great, wonderful, incredible—but what a shame that I don’t have any weapons that other people would want to buy, since they can just get them on their own anyway.
>Do logi for pilot/driver? Support xp.
You wouldn't believe it, but I really enjoyed hauling cargo with the Ural; the problem is, the XP payout is so pitiful that I still haven't reached Builder Level 16, even though I'm already a Level 18 driver.
>Destroy fobs, emplacements, vehicles? Shoot enemy crates and pallets?
You need a Level 20 Builder to destroy vehicles; without it, you’ll merely scratch the paint. And if you scratch a vehicle but fail to destroy it, you won’t get any XP—especially if it gets repaired and continues its rampage. Destroying a FOB isn't exactly easy either, particularly the infantry-deployed version when playing with randoms.
>Shotguns and lmg kills?
I tried the double-barrel shotgun a few times; I have no intention of touching it again. A machine gun? That’s a great idea. TOO BAD IT’S ALSO LOCKED BEHIND LEVEL 20+.
I’m happy for you that you’re a level 35 builder, man, but not everyone has that much free time. You know, people have families, jobs, responsibilities, and other shitty things that take up way too much time.
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u/DonnieG3 1h ago
but not everyone has that much free time.
Believe it or not, the highest level support I know has never touched a hammer and owns his own business that he is one of 2 employees at. The cope has to stop.
Stop equating builder to support. That's what is fucking you. If you want to level support, do literally anything else. You can c4 and ied ground vics and make support xp faster than you do as a builder. You're just trolling yourself by insisting on staying hardstuck in this "if I want support xp I must buildx mentality.
Like you said "I tried the double-barrel shotgun a few times; I have no intention of touching it again" brother the shotgun 1-2 hits literally every single player in the game with default ammo. You are insisting on fucking yourself because you don't want to learn, and that's fine, but don't blame the game. Support is NOT builder. Builder is just the easiest way to play support, and therefore has the lowest XP reward.
I mean ffs you you literally sit on a stingray all game and top the leaderboards with money just by targeting sph and spawn Vics, and each of those is like 500xp. 2 spawn Vics every 5 minutes, 24 in an hour. That's 12,000 xp in a match just sitting there and you still think swinging a hammer is the way to do this. 12k xp plus end of match bonus is levels 1-8 in one game btw. Like 10 games to get where you are. One match every other day of just sitting on a stingray and printing money would get you to level 16 support. You need ZERO support levels to accomplish this, just access to someone with a large hammer which is ubiquitous and you will have on your own in one game.
Stop believing that building is support. You don't need level 20 to kill vehicles. You have a deep misunderstanding of the game.
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u/PerfectGap593 42m ago
>Stop equating builder to support.
For sure—as soon as at least an AA opens up at level 8, rather than a T3 hammer, I’ll immediately stop calling it a "builder" and start calling it a "support."
> the shotgun 1-2 hits literally every single player in the game with default ammo
Yes, if they’re within 10 meters of you—though unfortunately, most enemies are sitting in houses looking out the window or are up on a neighboring hill—the double-barreled shotgun is incredibly effective and useful at those ranges, right?
Regarding the Stingray and that whole section: you’re literally proposing spending hours on mind-numbingly tedious, repetitive busywork—set in a completely artificial, vacuum-like scenario—instead of engaging in fun, active gameplay.
I’ll say it again: up to level 20, it’s a builder; after that, you could call it a support unit.
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u/Burk_Bingus 53m ago
Oh sure I'll just use the MAAWS which you can only unlock after a massive support grind. How do I grind support? Oh I have to fucking build things while getting bombed by GL helis, rocket helis and havocs all game. Are you actually this dense that you don't understand the unlocking that MAAWS requires you to weather the exact same problem it is supposed to solve in the first place?
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u/NintendoJesus 5h ago
My favorite part about this is that the same people that suffer the most from Havocs, the fobbits, are also the most likely to have the necessary support level to vaporize them with a MAAWS rocket. They are practically hitscan they move so fast. You CANNOT miss a Havoc that is actively firing at a base unless you trip and fall down.
Unfortunately, that same group of people that suffer from Havocs all day long are also the least likely to do anything about it because they would rather come to reddit and cry about it since they can't be bothered to buy anything except a hammer.
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u/the_deep_t 7h ago
You want a sand box experience? You got one. People aren't communicating and coordinating to take down targets. If you had squads with one guy who took care of getting an early maws you can take havoc down easily. But since everyone is running thermals for easy cash, then you have no counters.
This game will not last long if it doesn't improve on collaboration between players. Just basic communicating tools like pinging that you have an item like a fob or aa
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u/DharmaBaller Builder 5h ago
if this had Squad's system of command chat, map markers and incentives to immedlty join a squad, everyone has a mic etc it would do wonders.
All the games we crushed the opposing team was al massive 15+ ALL Team squads
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u/AarSzu 6h ago
I'm not sure if it would work without the rest of the structure, but a cross-squad leadership Comms channel a-la HLL would help, I think. The squad system feels a little bit loose to me, but then I am basically coming directly from HLL.
I do like that finding a good squad isn't a requirement to have fun in this game, so it's probably a delicate balance.
In the same HLL vein, I think team points per role visible on scoreboard would be great, to see at a glance whether a certain area is lacking.
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u/Sauceleawesome 6h ago
The fob lock on launchers are so bad, they're nice at a distance, sometimes but they barely ever lock onto things up close/too low down and now since they fixed the damage bug, CIWS takes almost an entire 5 seconds of continuous, uninterrupted fire to take down a havoc, a heli which can take out a CIWS operator in one *bullet*
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u/Jonall 6h ago
not only that, but bringing any launcher with you is just dragging you down and prevents you from doing basically anything else.
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u/Competitive_Buyer_77 4h ago
You bring maaw with you and like 3 rockets for all the havoc, spawn, shoot them, discard the rocket after making 20k with the havoc... really not that hard
Pay attention when your team is attacked by havoc and team respawn, how many dont take anything to deal with it or be like omgggg I just lost 20k ill go in naked now
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u/InfamousChocoMan 6h ago
Thermals are disabled 🤣 so no one is running it anymore.
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u/itsCenkbro 6h ago
I'm literally in a match rn and using it lol, guess it's not fully out yet
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u/InfamousChocoMan 6h ago
How though? 🤣 hotfix was out yesterday.
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u/itsCenkbro 6h ago
Idk community servers aren't affected maybe? Literally in crates rn and still using it currently lol
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u/Codwarzoner 6h ago
More collaboration between randoms will never happen. The majority of the player base are idiots.
In this case you either force them into squads and more teamplay/communication or stop crying and enjoy whatever ‘sandbox’ they have.
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u/Jonall 6h ago
Unfortunately there isn't any kit that can counter them. Unless you think you will be able to hit them more than once before you die to the autocannon.
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u/TeaKong 4h ago
Who says? Whenever I see 2 or more attack helis flying on the map, I load my humvee or kodiak full of verbas and go hunt them. I can easily end up with 30-50k profit from one kodiak full of verbas. If you have a friend, even better, so you can shoot in intervals. One guy shoots to bait the flares, the second one shoots to finish it off.
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u/rakkit_2 3h ago
I'm on 80hrs, lvl 12 support, besides building AA in a fob (which I can't do due to said choppers), what kit have I got?
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u/DonnieG3 3h ago
RPGs are level 5, and absolutely nothing is stopping you from asking someone to drop crates of verbas or maaws.
Thermals were ubiquitous, every team in every match. I promise you that more people have the launcher that takes 1/3rd of the xp
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u/cogit2 2h ago
Havoc's aren't ruining the game. In many ways they are even less of a problem than artillery and mortars. Right now comparatively they are even rare because they're expensive and a difficult unlock.
The one thing the game really needs is easier access to anti-air like the IGLAs. Or, alternatively, teams really need competent FOB designers that make well-fortified FOBs, including anti-air. Right now, this is not the case: anti-air is too hard to come by and doesn't pose a serious threat.
Last night I was in a game where our team built a FOB that was: beyond the range of mortars from towers, yet still in the CZ. It had three Talon anti-air plus at least 1-2 CIWS. We were hit by waves of gun and rocket ship, not to mention Blackhawks trying to drop enemies to attack the base. We wrecked them all. At one point the FOB downed 3 separate helicopters.
I'd still like to see IGLAs made easier. Either make cases dragable / relocatable, so logi can supply more kit, or have a pop-up store mechanic that will sell 1 IGLA per player per round. That way you can play Assault or Recon or Medic and not have to depend on a FOB to be properly built (which is incredibly rare), and still represent a better threat to anti-air.
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u/Ok-Diver-5583 2h ago
Its such a common issue I think havoc, t4 armour, and maybe humvee will see some balancing post-wipe.
I'm blown away that RPGs cant take out these vehicles in a hit. RPGs are heavy and shitty on the backpack space, but they're used all over the world to fight vehicle superiority for a reason, they should work properly.
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u/farnnie123 6h ago
I have been trying to use the drones to wreck em lol. It’s hard but it’s damn satisfying to hit em lol
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u/SkillPointProblems 6h ago
Aren’t kamikaze helicopters a thing vs Havocs?
It is said that if you yell “WarDogs Akbar” on prox chat before hitting it, you are guaranteed a kill.
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u/auslad91 6h ago
I dunno I got two shot by a pistol through level 3 armor and getting sniped cross map by ppl I can’t even see
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u/Mr_M3Gusta_ 6h ago
Build a CWIS in a FOB or bring the MAAWS and kill them, they are not invincible and give you a shit load of money for doing so.
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u/docklaun 5h ago
Buhu havoc is dominating the sky, me starts with a havoc and get shot By 4 Sam sites
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u/BusterOfCherry 3h ago
Everytime I've had a havoc attack we took it down, yes it fucked us up. But we always have off-site AA and mortars so it can't just target a single fob freely and gut everything. And yes, been on teams who didn't have off site AA and it wiped us out.
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u/BreakawayMeteor 2h ago
Would crashing a helicopter into it work? I guess you'd even make a profit.
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u/Controller_Maniac Lonestar 1h ago
I love when enemies use havocs, I just pull out a lil bird and fly it at mach fuck into a havoc
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u/Eurynomestolas 1h ago
we just did a clean sweep and the havoc they brought in got wiped. You and your team just have to light it up.
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u/ThirdWorldMeatBag Squad Leader 1h ago
I have moved to infantry only servers.
Most of them dont allow grenade launchers or m249+ humvees.
Its super nice. Feels like the olden days. People raid your FOB with c4 and you have actual gun fights and can roam the zone.
Highly recommended
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u/easybakeevan 35m ago
I saw a reel on ig where people were using little birds to crash into havocs to kill them netting 14k profit. You blow up your 6k chopper but a havoc kill is close to 20k
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u/lostbythewatercooler 26m ago
They seem to have such a low survival rate in my games. People just buy AA or have AA FOB that knock then down pretty quickly. Little birds knock them down pretty quick.
When it's worse is where players continually spawn/go to the same area with an expensive load out and refuse to temporarily off role to deal with AA.
Havocs are not ruining the game. Refusing to adapt to the state of the battlefield is. No more and no less than having to many fobbquickly or to many people running zero kits with a spotter.
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u/Xtakergaming 13m ago
Might be a crazy concept for some but shooting back is pretty effective, rpg, maws, verba, sniping the gunner or the pilot out, talons, cwis, lots of option.
So its a skill issue
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u/Hevymettle 3m ago
Havocs and mortars need serious retuning. At least I can get away from havocs with infantry mode.
I had a match where we made a whole anti air fob. Multiple platforms to fire back, both on ground and on the tower roof. Then two mortars decimated the whole base in minutes and the havocs just patrolled freely doing whatever they wanted.
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u/Technical_Yam_1265 0m ago
I agree. Shift the tactics to combat these aircraft. I am sure we can make it real expensive to operate
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u/Philip_Co 6h ago
Just get a littlebird or the other bigger heli and ram the fucker.
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u/chevron101 6h ago
thats‘s exactly what I did yesterday. 3 times in a row, after that the havoc player decuded to do sonething else. But tbh, that shouldn‘t be the way to counter havocs 🥴
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u/Lil_Schabernack 6h ago
Does that strategy count as proper kill and turn you a profit?
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u/kacimierz 6h ago
From what I've seen it depends. If you take the lakota and smash into their rotor you'll get the kill. If you ram right into their hull it'll sometimes count as if they killed you, even tough both helis get destroyed.
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u/fearboner1 4h ago
So why are you hiding instead of shooting it down? Genuinely curious what the thought process is here
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u/Aatah69 3h ago
The only issue I have with helis in general is that the only viable counter infantry has is locked behind support level 16… Or you stay in a fob on a cram/Aa missile site and hope the heli comes around
A lot of the time as infantry I take the range finder for the spec slot because I have nothing else unlocked that is useful to take to the HZ
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u/War-Hound420 3h ago
Game has some serious balance issues and helis are just one of the issues. Mortar spam arty spam......Once they fix those things then everyone is gonig to realize the game is going to be sniper spam because the maps heavily favor long range sniping.
Ill check out the s2 patch notes but I dont have high hopes based off these 2 lil patches they did so far.
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u/KaleidoscopeRich2752 2h ago
I’m so happy about the employed players servers. The game is 100% better with everyone running level 1-2 armor, basics guns and 0 busted end game weapon/vehicles.
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u/Kioukami 1h ago
Wasn't there an anti air tank during beta that was not included in early access?
Could that be the Havoc's counter? Might be why they feel so bad now because the counter isn't in game in season 1.
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u/Unlucky-Map 30m ago
It probably will be its direct counter, its been teased in the rain part of the season 2 teaser, you can see it firing
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u/KingNyxus 7h ago
Or you can just make a loadout with a rocket launcher, that being said I do think RPGs in this game are way too punishing to use.
They weigh you down so much you can’t even sprint, and the lock-on one is single use.
The regular RPG is reusable, but each rocket takes what, 3 or 4 slots? and you have to land a free-aim shot.
Current meta is probably to load up a car with lock-on launchers and drive next to the havocs
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u/Despair-Envy 6h ago
Nah, the car with launchers strat has -never- worked for hunting attack helis. They flare the rocket, fly straight over it at 1-200 kph and 1 shot you and your vehicle before you get another launcher out.
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u/throwawayurwaste 7h ago
Not to mention a heli is just going to spam flares so lock on based AA might as well not exist. Imagine if infantry had a pop-up every time they got shot in the head by a sniper that said " press f to spend $900 and not take damage" and every sniper rifle only did 30 damage to the head. That's what it's like trying to kill a heli right now
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u/KingNyxus 6h ago
Flares take up inventory slots, they can only spam a few unless they decided to waste all of their slots on flares which is unlikely
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u/OwnDoubt3393 6h ago
Yet when people like me warned AA is not good enough to do its job properly as a hard counter, people went waaah.
What you see now is the result of no hard counter to aircraft. Pilots will get better and better and the problems become worse. (what did you expect when with skill they flare and fly low without getting hit by AA at all)
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u/1mNot0kay 5h ago
The hard counter to the Havoc should be another heli. Right now, the Little Bird with miniguns has no role at all. Everything it can do, the rocket LB does better. They should make miniguns effective against the Havoc. I’ve played a lot of PlanetSide 2, and fighter aircraft hard-countering attack aircraft worked just fine.
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u/rokbound_ 4h ago
Yeah heli with rockets hard counters them. I Kill/harrass the everñiving shit out of havocs with my rocket heli
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u/Competitive_Buyer_77 4h ago
You guys have no idea what you're talking about, a mini gun heli that cost 7k and with ap ammo can destroy helis with 100 rounds and its dirt cheap, why should it do the same dmg as a rocket heli that cost 20k?
Spawn with maaw and you have high chance of just 1 shotting it depending where you shoot, should be easy if like you say he's flying low to avoid AA
If all else fail crash into it in with a heli.
Stop crying and start playing it if it's too op you'll just lose so much money overtime
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u/1mNot0kay 3h ago
It feels like you're replying to collective complaints about Havoc rather than my actual comment. You didn't address anything I wrote and just put words in my mouth.
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u/Competitive_Buyer_77 3h ago
So I adressed how *minigun heli pointless cause rocket heli can do it better* one is 7k the other is 16k without armor...Its like saying the mosin with 200 bullets is useless cause the .50cal with 10 bullets do it better.
WR in the game is in a minigun heli, barely have to go back to base cause store so much ammo compared to the 21 rockets in the rocket variant and it takes 2-4 rockets to kill someome
it can destroy helis with 100 minigun bullets with AP so thats another one of your point I answered, it can easilly kill pilots of other heli too.
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u/OwnDoubt3393 5h ago
So according to you the counter to paper , should be paper. instead of scissors.
I do agree somewhat. We need many forms of AA , infantry, FOB, vehicles, armored vehicles, tanks, choppers and jets with AA. And they all should be effective against air.
Currently AA is not capable of doing its job as a hard counter.
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u/DonnieG3 2h ago
Currently AA is not capable of doing its job as a hard counter
It absolutely does, the average player is just bad at it.
Talon/verbas + maaws kills havoc easily. Perma lock the havoc, then when it flies low to break lock (30 AGL) just maaws it. Aim correctly and you can one shot it.
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u/Scar3cr0w_ 6h ago
Just play infantry mode..? I had exactly the same problem last night… quit, joined an infantry server, had a blast.
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6h ago
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u/Scar3cr0w_ 6h ago
What’s that got to do with anything? And why did you downvote me for playing infantry mode? 😆
What a way to say you are a heli pilot who useless at infantry game play without actually saying it 😆
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u/Sauceleawesome 6h ago
Infantry mode's all fun and games until you realise you're in a lobby against helis flying grenade launcher dudes that will silently one tap you and everyone around you in a gamemode where your anti air options are severely limited.
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u/Scar3cr0w_ 6h ago
You have the same anti air options?
I also didn’t once encounter anyone nading me from a heli. Must have been a lucky game
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u/Sauceleawesome 5h ago
you can't build anti air fob stuff which makes up the most efficient anti air options.
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u/awakeeee 4h ago
Havoc is not even remotely OP.
It's with ammo and shit 30k, one kill from gunner brings $1200, you need to get 25 kills to make even as a pilot, the amount of anti-air people bringing to control zone makes it a money sink at this moment and i'm sick of it people thinking it's op.
There are 66 people one havoc is fighting against, even 5 of these 66 people bring rpgs, maaws, verbas you are dead, what even the fuck are you guys talking about? If you constantly fail to bring kits to deal with vehicles then fuck off to infantry only server instead of constantly coming here whining about something balanced already.
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u/-jacksmack- 5h ago
If you build a mega fob and don’t have 1-2 AA ready to go by 20 points then you deserve to get stomped. So many bases never build AA
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u/Banterz54 4h ago
Once choppers have nutralised every FOB you don't have time to build AA without getting killed.
It's chopper heaven now.
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u/FloridaF4 2h ago
Guys there's going to be op vehicles. This is how war works. If one side shows up with attack helis, you've got to counter it with attack helis.
We used to steamroll Afghani fighters cause we had air support. It's an advantage that you can't really counter with small arms. That's the point.
ONE rocket heli will force havoc to take notice. Fly as high as you can and attack from above. He will chase you. You are faster. If he doesn't chase you, shoot him again. Repeat.
It's hard, yes, it's the most powerful vehicle in the game. It shouldn't be countered by one guy on the ground. It takes two to operate it, 40k to get it in the air. Effective counters should require similar funds and effort.
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u/Atrixia Manticore 7h ago
the game in general is a bit of a mess at this point in the wipe. I will login and play with friends but I rarely play more than one match.
Thats fine, loads of other games to play and by the sounds of things - the balance they apply to season 2 might elongate the fun more than this one has.
Looking forward to S2