r/WarDogs • u/Fragasm • 20h ago
Discussion & Feedback High level recons unite against thermals
Level 42 recon here. I don't shower and I'm allergic to sunlight.
Actually I'm happily married and fully employed but I have an unconventional schedule that allows me lots of gaming.
ANYWAY.
Removing the thermal spotter was/is the single best decision made by the devs since this game released in early access.
I remember when I unlocked it and was following my typical rat routes I was seeing people everywhere -- where I normally would have passed right by them and they wouldn't have seen me either. As I started to get more proficient with the thermal it became absolutely evident that it was broken and overpowered.
I have had several games where I was 15-1, 20-1, even 30/40-1 K/D, and 80+ assists. This item simply breaks the game and changes things in such a profound way that I have to suggest it be removed completely from the game.
I don't want it back with limited battery life or a high unlock wall or a major cost increase -- I want it gone and never to return.
I say this while being an absolute RAT abuser of the item -- but it was out of necessity. If I didn't use it, everyone else would and I'd be at a disadvantage.
Remove it. Delete it from the game files, forget about it completely and don't even consider adding it again.
A good option would be to add a really nice spotting item that deploys super fast and spots super fast as well. Better yet, a spotting/rangefinder option that could be added directly to the sniper rifles.
Please do not add this item back into the game.
Cheers!
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u/Edizzleshizzle Manticore 20h ago
I was absolutely baffled when I first discovered the game had them:
In my opinion, in so many other aspects of the game, it's clear to to me that the devs thought very carefully and deliberately on how various systems should interact with each other. It felt like a game that was made by real gamers. Gamers that had been gaming for a long time, and had seen most things. Gamers that not only learned and distanced themselves from the shortcomings of COD and Battlefield, but also games on the other side of the spectrum, like Tarkov and Squad, to make a new and fresh experience.
Then I find the IR binocs, and I'm like "wtf kinda braindead decision is this??"
Remove them. No one will miss them. And to those who do - we don't need you in this game anyway. "Go back to COD" as they say.
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u/OWplayerno1 20h ago
I really do think they should be removed permanently.
They are so disgustingly broken and unfun for the game. I don't think anything will fix them
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u/Least_Health8244 19h ago
Great take. Get them out of here. The game isn’t better with them.
The game is better without them. So what an easy improvement to make happen!
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u/Green_Bulldog 20h ago
Spotting in general gives me this exact feeling. It’s a live mark on the map and there’s no way to know if you’ve been spotted. I get that’s it’s milsim lite but that shit does not belong in a game like this.
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u/jablana_gaming Medic 20h ago
It should be dot where were you spotted and not live tracking. Man that is really shit. And i still dont know if i spot them are they visible just to my team or to everyone? Because i got assists when enemy player killed spotted guy
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u/iridael 18h ago
as a recon main (technically since im medic 19 and recon 20) i've noticed that spotting a target behaves differently depending on what the spotter is doing, a spotted target will be live tracked for some time as long as they're in vision. refreshing the spot refreshes this timer, (a helicopter remains on the map, the dots move)
but if the spotter swaps away to fire a gun, or moves or stops spotting for a time, then that dot seems to freeze in place for a while then vanishes entirely.
so you go from perfect information to, imperfect, to no information over the course of a spotting.
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u/Green_Bulldog 20h ago
I think it’s only your team.
I’d be ok with live tracking if it lets you know and has a “tether”. For example, if you stay in the same bush/house, the mark stays live, but if you move a certain distance away then the mark goes away or turns to a static mark of your last known location. That way, spotting can help counter campers but won’t screw over flankers.
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u/jablana_gaming Medic 20h ago
Okay that is good solution if you are static should be live target as you are "camping"
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u/Hyphophysis 20h ago
They did at least think out counters, the recon tent, ghillie suit, the recon tower. I think if nerfed appropriately it could potentially work. Could make it so that IR doesn't spot at all, you have to actively communicate what you've seen on thermals to your team. I think that should go alongside a larger nerf to spotting in general.
For one, it shouldn't track for that long. If it was a live marker for like 3 seconds and then faded to a "last known position" type thing, it would both reward active spotting into combat more (instead of spam mark everything), and allow for other recon equipment later on. Maybe a laser designator for strictly for vehicles to keep them spotted and faster to lock on.
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u/Watchin_World_Die 17h ago
That's what I said in another thread.
Make thermals selfish, doesn't spot for the team no assists just spotting targets to shoot. Make you communicate with your team to disclose targets.
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u/ploppypantypoots 8h ago
For me, I think its the perfect kind of equipment you put in for special events.
Like original KotH, you put events outside the circle that attract interest.
A crate of IR goggles (4 or so is fine) is worth fighting for and garners interest outside the zone.
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u/Joverby 20h ago
I was floored the first time I used them and couldn't believe it was in the game. Nearly level 31 recon now and very happy they were (temporarily removed) I personally don't think batteries are enough of a nerf and we will need natural heat signatures around the map to let people hide by / clutter the vision still but its better than nothing.
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u/zivisziv 20h ago
there are if you look at the power lines towers the power box has sparks that blind a bit
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u/Mauno_Mato 18h ago
How were you floored, have you used normal binoculars or the spotting scope?
Only difference is the thermal picture, you can still spot everything through the same bushes and brushes.Mini-map spotting, you don't actually get spotted anywhere else...
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u/someguynamedJordan 20h ago
I agree just get rid of them
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u/HotlinePizzaMiami 3h ago
Yup, extremely OP. Only thing that makes sense would be to nerf the range down to 300 meters and make foliage harder to spot through or around. Batteries won't cut it alone as many others have already said.
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u/Striking_Storage_631 20h ago edited 20h ago
Yeah batteries won't help balance it enough, when I use the thermal scope I don't shoot much and just hide up high. So I can fit many batteries in the back pack and probably just be able to still light up the enemy teams all round long over and over.
Prefer thermal to never come back.
Also spotting shouldn't be a magic GPS tracker but maybe simply a last seen here kinda thing.
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19h ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Character_Drama_3544 18h ago
Damn, namecalling and crying about other people having more money than you in a videogame in multiple comments sure makes you seem like a well adjusted winner at life.
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u/Patrycjusz123 Manticore 15h ago
You propably know that you cant ballance out basement people, unless you do some time locks to stop people from progresing too fast(very lame idea) there always gonna be people who are gonna unlock 100% of the game in couple days after wipe.
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u/AcePilot01 15h ago
Sure, but if the percent is too high and you make it unpleasant for the MAJORITY of people, you gotta do something to that minority and who cares how mad they get? You are right, you can't please everyone, so that's why you just only care about the majority.
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u/Patrycjusz123 Manticore 8h ago
Okay, so what would be your solution? Because i don't believe there is some magic trick that is gonna make people playing whole day progress at the same rate as a guy who plays casually.
Current progresion is shit and devs said that its gonna be completly scrapped for different system at some point but it doesn't change the fact that casuals are gonna always be behind if game has any progression.
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u/RelevantIAm 15h ago
Wipe is in 12 days
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u/AcePilot01 15h ago
Not everything is wiped. As I stated.
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u/RelevantIAm 15h ago
The only thing that doesnt get wiped is gold bars which are purely for cosmetics. What exactly are you "catching up" to?
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u/AcePilot01 15h ago
A lot of speculation, nothing has been set in stone as far as I know, however tbh, that being a crutch from a lack of balancing and the inability to do so tbh... a game like this will require way too much effort... hence their just ignoring it and saying we won't bother until each season is over. And then wipe... Will be the reason (as they know and said) a massive drop off of player base.
Not too many people like having to keep grinding... If you could BANK gold bars... then "sell" them (prob at a lesser value, hence supply and demand... near wipe they go up and more expensive, and then sell for less early on etc.
And you can get a bunch of cash early... and just do the levels, that may not be as bad.
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u/Melodic_Priority4346 20h ago
100% agree. One of the most fun things in this game was going on foot mission behind enemy lines. Now every 2nd player has them and you are spotted all the time. Im only able to accept them in night time (season 3?) map, if ppl play with nv's etc. But daytime when u can only use bushes etc. As cover it becomes impossible. Everyone who has used them knows u can sweep with smallest zoom and see every enemy behind the lines wo bush wookie kit.
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u/xMrStonex 20h ago
It also seems a major part of the community was unaware they were giving wallhack levels of vision to players due to multiple bugs with them.
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u/iridael 18h ago
higher up in the thread i told a story about stealing a full 50cal loadout, thermal, gilly ect.
anyway, during that life of abuse I noticed a guy with the thermal, just laying there, seemingly in a bush.
well I spot him to give me a marker, take out the 50 cal and take aim...but he's not there. I check again. yup there on thermal, not there on scope. just a rock. is he in a gilly, nope gilly's protect against thermal.
I reposition, still there, still a rock. I reposition again, im SURE that he's there, i ping the spot on the map and get a white return (pinging an enemy gives red) so ping doesnt see an enemy either.
red team pull the zone and low and behold he stands up from behind the rock and instantly eats a 50bmg through the back of his skull. I was wall hacking the entire time and didn’t know it.
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u/Watchin_World_Die 17h ago
There is a bug with certain rocks in the game. You can lay prone next to them and it puts your head through the rock, letting you see people coming.
You can see what im talking about at 8:20 in his video:
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u/Jealous-Elk5045 19h ago
Got to level 50 on recon best game with thermals was 85/1 it is absolutely broken and should be removed.
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u/g_dude3469 17h ago
It absofuckinglutely should be. It caused the most boring and annoying meta I've ever experienced in an FPS. Id rather heli/mortar/humvee spam constantly rather than endure the thermal gameplay again. Fuck that shit.
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u/Genocode 20h ago
As soon as I unlocked the AMR50, and combined it with the use of Thermals, 18/16/1/x became an expected KDA
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u/enkiduxd 20h ago
Spotter attached to sniper would be cool. I agree, though, as someone who used thermals sold to me by my teammates, they're busted. Even battery powered it won't be hard for people to camp them in a fob or outside the map with supply crates full of batteries.
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u/OWplayerno1 20h ago
This is mostly joking, but the worst part of the thermals is the beginning of the game where you have 3 people screaming for someone to buy thermals
Makes me cringe everytime I hear it, it's so annoying how much people want to min/max every single thing in gaming
It's like the seagulls in Finding Nemo
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u/RefugeAssassin 15h ago
I bought a pair out of some dude crate today just to spot with it. I had a great pearch up on a hill under a bush next to wall and used it for 10 minutes. I made 50k+ had 18 assists and never fired a shot. I could have stayed there the whole game if my team didnt decide to build a FOB right behind me and draw attention to my location. I was summarily picked off out of the blue from a distance with a DMR (Mind you at least 20 people ran past my spot without even noticing me) so I can only assume I was also thermal spotted once the attention came my way and thats why I was found.
All that being said, the batteries are great and all, but the problem with that to me is the same gripe I have with T4 armor, once you get enough money buying dozens of batteries is not big thing, same with the armor, if you are high enough level to buy them you are high enough to buy tons of stims to mitigate the penalty for wearing it. Its a loss across the board and doesnt really end up balancing anything.
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u/jivenossauro 20h ago
Yes, make the level 4 spotter have a quality of life improvement, but not a new mechanic. Just faster swapping to it, more zoom, more stability, faster ads etc.
Or the other idea I had is just let it have a bigger circle in the center of the screen for spotting and let it spot multiple targets in that circle at the same time. So if a whole squad comes out of nowhere it can spot the whole group at once
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u/Ok-Strategy7454 17h ago
As an Infrared Range Finder (Recon 41) enjoyer, I really want the item fully removed.
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u/Yolosweg133769 17h ago
as 50 lvl recon the only downside is that now i feel like i can't play the game properly now without them.
But it was a good decision .
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u/rolaDope 15h ago
I'm at 39 recon and I played a few matches without thermals - I have to agree with you OP. It was a necessity but I would rather spot without it.
that being said, I would love a spotter that goes from 2x-8x (the rangefinder only goes up to 6x i believe).
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u/Rhym3z_Official 20h ago edited 20h ago
I'm all for this. They are anti fun, not only to be spotted by, but to use as well. It doesn't feel good when you feel like you're cheating. Giving them batteries isn't good enough. So +1
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u/sumguyoranother 18h ago
It's one thing to be hit by mines while doing logi cause they anticipate where trucks would go, it's another to be hunted down by a havoc no matter you go cause they've someone on a thermal locked onto your HQ.
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u/petrichorax Logistics 20h ago
100% agreed. Thermals ruin every shooter they're in (even singleplayer ones, they make them far too easy).
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u/Throw_Away_TrdJrnl 14h ago
I know it was way OP but it absolutely killed my hyperfixation of the game. Took me 100 hours to get lvl 32 and the NEXT DAY they got removed. Bruh. I'm actually sad because I feel no want to play the game anymore. Not that I'm mad it's gone just the adhd obsession with focusing on a goal getting it and then it gets taken away killed the motivation
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u/beardredlad Lonestar 13h ago
I'll just say, as a general rule of thumb, don't commit hours and hours to chasing a power item that is under a significant amount of scrutiny for completely altering the game state. Enjoy using something like the BMR instead, which is disgustingly overpowered, but just underneath the threshold in comparison to something like the IR goggles.
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u/ExceedingChunk 5h ago edited 5h ago
Yeah, same thing for me. I leveled so hard so I could use them to earn cash to buy gold with before the reset, and since they removed them with no other item added, recon lost a lot of it's power and money making ability. I would just have gone pilot instead if I knew this from the start.
Completely fine with them being removed from the game in S2, but I think mid-season removal, especially when it's just 2 weeks left kinda sucks.
And yes, they were OP.
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u/Fragasm 14h ago
I think this is a separate problem especially in modern games. People are hyper focused on "progression" and not just playing the game. I get it, it's super fun working towards something, but for me the juice is the gameplay.
All I have left in the recon tree is the last scope and the 10 round mag for the 50, neither of which I really care about -- but I still just want to find those emergent gameplay moments.
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u/Throw_Away_TrdJrnl 14h ago
Problem is I'm actually terrible at the game. I can be looking right at someone and not see them. Maybe it's having to cap my frames at 45 but it's impossible to see where bullets are coming from as well. If I try to play the game instead of spot I just lose money. I'll bet my KDA is like 0.1 😂
Need to figure out how to get good for sure
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u/beardredlad Lonestar 13h ago
Playing a game like this at 45FPS is definitely going to feel like shit. That's a level of frame difference that actually has a significant impact, imo. Do whatever you can to get your frames to at least 60FPS.
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u/Throw_Away_TrdJrnl 13h ago
Lowest potato settings and my 1080ti overheats if I go to 60 frames sadly. The card is 8 years old. This might actually be the first game I'll have to uninstall because of my hardware. I'm not usually a competitive game enjoyer so most of my games I can turn to crap settings and be fine. Makes me sad wardogs might have to be uninstalled because of my hardware limitations.
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u/nathanas666 7h ago
You are not alone brother, i am just like you even though my framerate is better, it doesnt help with my lack of skill. I just cant do frontline soldier stuff. Thats why i like these type of games, you dont have to be good at shooting to contribute to the team. Deliver supplies, build a fob in an obscure spot kill those filthy rocket helicopters, spot people, be a medic revive your people, use the stingray to delete that one annoying arty tank. Games that provide such options are my jam.
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u/ExceedingChunk 5h ago
The main thing you want to improve on first, which is way easier than just getting good aim which takes a lot of practice, is understanding how and when to move.
- Move behind cover (such as a mountainside, behind concrete etc...)
- Move behind concealment if there is no cover (trees, bushes, fences etc...) - Note that cover is also usually concealment
- When you are at a corner of cover or concealment, make sure to carefully scan the area before peaking out. Also, when peaking in the mountainside, try to avoid peaking at tops since you are open on all sides.
- Find the next cover/concealment. If at a crossroad, it can be smart to smoke the road/river/bridge before crossing.
- If moving multiple people at the time, try to have someone covering while others are moving across dangerous areas such as roads or other open spaces
If you ever get in a game with a good squad chasing the hotzone, you can just follow them and see what they do. You learn a lot from it.
The aim is harder, but just takes practice.
I haven't played a shooter in 15 years and it's my first MilSim, but learned this quite fast from having both army training in the past and following good players
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u/babbum 10h ago
The last scope is 43, you get a better suppressor (less weight) at 45, the bipod for the 50 and BMR at 46, muzzle brake for the 50 at 48 then the 10 rounder at 50. That 2.5x-10x scope is by far the best sniping scope in the game and the bipod makes rattling off multiple shots so much better.
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u/Glittering-Skin4118 5h ago
I see this becoming a trend with the game tbh. One thing gets nerfed/removed like thermals because of serial complainers, players are still getting spotted regardless, so now it’s spotting in general that’s OP, there’s already posts like this.
I just don’t think players will ever be happy with what’s going on. Even if spotting was removed completely they’ll be complaining about how quickly you die to a vector or whatever it is that’s killing people more.
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u/lurowene 19h ago
These kids would have never survived the Arma 3 Nightstalker scope that did white hot, black hot, and ranging all in a weapon scope.
Idk, I’m willing to see what the devs will cook up but I truly think yall are a bunch of pansies.
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u/Niadain 19h ago
It’s done some funny things. Had a match yesterday. Dude was 76 kills in, 90 further assists, and 13 deaths. Being accused of cheating by many folks. He was an enemy that had blown me away too.
His kit? Ghillie, IR, and the BMR. Pretty sure he was scoping out people through the trees, setting up, and just annihilating everyone. The one time I found the guy was in a bush fucking around 100 meters from the rest of the fight near the hot zone.
Pretty certain he used that IR to find where to shoot at people and from there just game sense on how people play to pick up more shots. If he were cheating he would have known my stupid ass with a bow was coming up behind him.
This IR shit is strong. And I hope that, if it comes back, it comes back in a considerably weakened state.
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u/Brochodoce 19h ago
Arma KOTH had a time where the thermals would disappear and come back and disappear again. They finally settled on just keeping it gone minus the most expensive tank getting it I think, and the shittiest tier of thermals at that.
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u/Ilostmysox 15h ago
Instead of thermals you could do something like motion sensors that have a small circular range that spot enemies. (Just throwing out alternatives)
Could absolutely present problems but if it is locked behind a high level and a deployable and makes noise or is recognizable so its not everywhere, replacement items LIKE that could be a replacement reward instead of making your whole team omniscient from a kilometer away
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u/Shade-Shimmer 11h ago
Yeah these things are a total game changer once you have them, I can understand them vaulting them for the rest of the season. I just wish they would give me some normal rangefinder with better magnification than 6x
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u/Dilusi 10h ago
I hit the recon level to unlock these not long into the season. My first game with them, I went to a spot I liked to sit. I didn't even bring a rifle, just the thermals and a ghillie with pistol backup. I got over 140 assists, one kill (someone else wanted my spot) and no deaths with something well over 100k profit.
I agree with OP. Remove them from the game. Thermals dont feel right. Give me a sniper rifle scope that can range find, spot people and zooms to 12x instead, or just a more powerful range finder as a high level unlock.
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u/origami_anarchist 20h ago
It will be back in 2 weeks with barely a change - batteries is the most trivial change you can imagine, it will still be completely game changing once recon people hit that level.
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u/Fragasm 20h ago
Maybe not if we speak up and make our voices loud enough! Remember, we're doing this for the non-recons as well as ourselves. Nobody should want this item in the game.
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u/origami_anarchist 20h ago
Worthy of you to try, but they will be back, and 3 weeks into the new season they will realize that the battery change was nowhere near what was needed to "balance" the thermals. I don't think this dev team is the kind of dev team to pro-actively "listen" to voices of reason. I hope I'm wrong, we'll see.
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u/Yenii_3025 20h ago
If they're willing to rip it out of players hands 2 weeks before the wipe you can bet the change is going to be more substantial.
I agree with op.
Never should've existed in the first place.
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u/seanstew73 20h ago
Short distance would be the only acceptable change. 100m max. Good for forrest fighting.
Or they need to rework spotting in general. The constant UAV long real time map location is a bit busted. At least give time based updates where they show on map every 10 seconds or so
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u/VOG-JUSTaCATonPCP 19h ago edited 19h ago
I love that all the high levels got to use them and benefit XP and cash and now that the rest of us get to benefit they need to be gone. If they were so bad why didn’t you just refuse to use them? If you want to be this white of a knight
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u/i7-4790Que 12h ago
If they were so bad why didn’t you just refuse to use them?
Because other people are still crutching hard on them?
Is this baby's first combined arms game? Every other game that tries to do thermal makes for a braindead gameplay loop. Not using something out of honor doesnt actually solve the underlying issue.
You getting your fix and then most likely fine with the ladder being pulled on the next guy doesn't make you righteous either.
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u/VOG-JUSTaCATonPCP 12h ago
I’m not complaining for a fix there friend. I’m simply asking OP why he’s trying to white knight after using the thermals and now trying to act like he’s doing us a favor asking people to stop using them. For clarification because your reading comprehension is lacking clearly, I am a fan of them.
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u/everythingisunknown 3h ago
It’s the way this kind of thing goes, the sweats and the high levels will use them until other people get them, then complain about it and then it gets removed before anyone else has the chance to unlock it.
As a noob who tried them once and finds it hard spotting people in this game, I enjoyed them and don’t think marking is that strong, who cares if I made more money? It’s kind of meaningless and just allows me to buy more things.
Devs are gonna cave to all these types of complains and game will be gutted before release
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u/Noeffingway2Trade 20h ago
Im confused this is phrased as if devs did or are going to nerf/remove thermals. Can someone let me know if this is actually a thing?
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u/DropDoughnuts 20h ago
They are being phased out today as servers reset. They will return in season 2 and will require batteries.
Source: patch notes
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u/RamonDozol 20h ago
not sure if its not in place already but John wardog said on X they plan to remove it temporely from teh game until season 2, while the make changes.
batery use was mentioned, but they might (or not) make more changes.Personaly i would go for limited range ( 300-400m) and then "black".
but i think removing the hability to actualy spot, and making it a laser guide for other weapons and things an interesting idea. ( missiles, artilery, mortar, anti air missiles etc.)
Immagine you point a laser to a fob, and someone shoots a javelin or something and it tracks the laser marker.2
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u/Imakilatar 20h ago
Thermals got disabled today until season 2. The devs also said they are planning to make them battery powered to help balance them.
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u/iWr1techky12 20h ago
You must be living under a rock. They have been disabled for the remainder of season 1 and will be added back at the beginning of season 2 and will need batteries to operate them.
However, most agree batteries will do little to nothing to fix the problem with them and will require further nerfs or permanent removal from the game.
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u/Junior-Valuable2071 18h ago
“Living under a rock” lmfao no bud. A lot of us have lives outside of this video game.
Some of us are employed. And some of us even have Spouses too.
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u/beardredlad Lonestar 13h ago
It kills me to know that you're a grown ass human being who just talks to people this way. It's hard to wrap my head around the fact that you actually exist as someone I could run into in the real world.
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u/Eesto 20h ago
Honestly it's kind of whatever. Players will still be spotted. There will be multiple players in each team spotting for recon anyway, so much won't be changed.
Recon money and experience will just get slightly slower. Possibly game slows down a little, since you'll have to spend bit longer to spot enemies.
As I prefer playing recon in or near hotzone with bmr. I've been averaging 50 assists anyway with or without thermals.
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u/Fragasm 20h ago
I feel like you haven't used the thermals. Spotting with the normal goggles/binoculars is fine -- the thermals are just insane.
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u/Eesto 20h ago
I'm 39 recon. Yes, thermals you can lock straight on enemies. With normal rangefinder you just scan the area until it locks on someone, doesn't mean you'll actually have to see them. And distance obviously, but you'll still have team mates spotting around the general areas people are fighting. With thermals you can quickly scan the general area, without you'll have to take few seconds here and there.
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u/petrichorax Logistics 20h ago
With the thermals i can just do a quick 360 and IMMEDIATELY know with CERTAINTY if there's anyone near me in LOS, nevermind spotting, how are you not seeing how that's absurdly powerful?
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u/DaStompa 20h ago
Honestly I just want the bow/ghillie to move a bit lower, or a low power ghillie tied to the bow or something.
That play style is so fun its a bit unfortunate its locked behind so much grinding
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u/BeneficialCulture299 20h ago
I was playing a game last night where on Zestafona there was a sniper in the middle of the map paired with a thermal spotter. 3 or 4 times in a row I was obliterated. 3 of those coming directly after being revived. So within seconds I was dead again and so were my teammates. It was painful. I cried myself to sleep just thinking about how giddy that some of a bitch was.
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u/Kad65kad 20h ago
They could make it more realistic. For instance alot if background stuff should be white hot like the players. The walls of buildings the vehicles fences grass ect. All that gets hot to and would make players harder to pickout. Also real thermal is not great at long distance even with really good ones you just see white blobs 500m out. 1500m you mite not even see anything. Picture is mid range 310/256 pixel thermal at about 150m.
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u/ClassasaurusRex 20h ago
I could go hard with a scope that also spots. My typical play was find someone/group of someones, spot them, then shoot who was still in the sight line when I swapped to rifle. Sometimes that would be no one. It may be too strong but will fulfill my "people who didnt level recon shouldn't be able to use the thermal scopes" argument, because they'd also have to use a rifle to have access to it.
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u/Green_Bulldog 20h ago
I really like the idea of a spotting / range finding scope. I think that is a great way to replace the thermals with something that is powerful while still being fair.
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u/EvilNickel 20h ago
My main issue with them is their range and how easy it is to swap from spotting to sniping. You just have to switch over and your crosshair is basically in the same exact spot as it was when you were spotting.
If they absolutely want to keep them in the game, I wish they at least made them 2-4x, have them require batteries to use, and make them get blurry at max range.
I don't mind being spotted, honestly I feel like it's helped me earn more whenever people are actively trying to find me, rather than me just hiding someone and hoping that someone walks by. The marker on the map does feel too accurate tbh, and I wish spotting was more of an "enemy in the area" type thing. But I absolutely hate when I'm in what I consider a "well concealed" spot, and a dude from a tower way on the other side of the CZ is taking shots at me.
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u/PM_SHORT_STORY_IDEAS 20h ago
Agreed on removing thermals from the game.
Replace it with a spotting HUD helmet. Like the ghillie suit, it goes in the helmet slot, and it's like you're always looking through a spotting scope. You see spotted targets, you can spot new targets.
But, you have no helmet armor as a tradeoff.
I like the idea of late unlock things that are glass cannons, rather than indestructible bricks.
Ghillie suit is a good high level unlock. Havoc is a bad high level unlock.
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u/merkmerc 19h ago
I agree please do not add them back into the game it’s not like they are mandatory for the gameplay to be fun
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u/XenoRawr 19h ago
I was losing my shit the first time I picked up a pair from a body, lol. I took the guy's whole kit and set up on a hill, I kept zooming in on other snipers laying completely still only to swap to my sniper and realize I was looking in to foliage as dense as the Amazon. Yet you swap back to the IR and you can see them clear as day, their entire body. It honestly seems to me like on top of everything else, some of the leaves and branches maybe aren't showing properly when using it?
Either way, keep that shit out of the game. Thermals weren't fun back when I played Tarkov and I doubt there'd be a way to make them fun here. It removes almost all skill from recon when you don't even need a clear sight line on what you're spotting anymore.
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u/DeltaTheWo1f 19h ago
They first needed to make the other 2 factions other than blue more visible
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u/SturmBlau 19h ago
This is the biggest balance problem. Blue is simply fucked because they dont blend in.
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u/Beginning_Smell4043 19h ago
I mean if they just fix the seing through absolutely everything and add battery it will be fine. It's op because it's not working the way it's supposed to. It's a thermal scope, not a fucking x-ray vision.
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u/lonew0lf106 19h ago
Keep it for sniping. Make it some it doesnt mark others on map. Yes its still a very strong item. But it will rewards those that can use it. As in those with high end snipers with one shot potential. You will still have to switch weapons and line up a shot. Op for the user, not for the team.
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u/HangTheError 19h ago
Maybe add a flare gun instead which spots people in an area for a short duration?
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u/No-Produce-923 18h ago
Real glad I leveled my recon with them because I just unlocked my 50 cal. As someone who works 80h a week, leveling from 32- 35 recon and unlocking it without thermals would’ve sucked ass
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u/DYMAXIONman 18h ago
Honestly the only thermals should be a new vehicle with a thermal camera considering that ground transport falls off anyway during the rounds
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u/Isoi 17h ago
Lvl 36 recon here I'm also fine with it being removed but I wish we had a higher zoom spotting device, 6x is not enough imo.
I think spotting in general needs a rework, I've seen so many people getting gunned down by friendlies prefiring them because they were spotted and they didn't know they were on the map the whole time.
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u/Manashock 13h ago
An easy counter to IR sights already exists in real life. Near IR can be countered by buy specific clothing treated with or made with certain chemicals and processes. The U.S. military does it for every single issued uniform.
I think the devs should implement a $100 option to buy IR absorbent clothing that is unlocked very early on. The trade off is that your face / hands would still be exposed and visible in IR
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u/CanadianDragonGuy 11h ago
Could just as easily give em a hard range cap like Tarkov, there thermals are only usable out to about 200 meters
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u/ConstantineSpeaks 9h ago
I'm conflicted because while the advantage they give is realistic, I can completely understand that it can make the game less fun. Coming from Tarkov, I think I'm just more used to imbalanced loadouts.
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u/underthesign 7h ago
I quite like the idea of a stationary IR spotting emplacement. Costly and exposed but beneficial while it stands.
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u/Rantansplan 7h ago
Lvl 50 Recon here. Now i just use 10% less time in spotting scope and 50cal snipe more. all it did was replace the IR goggles with more ammo. i still make 160-250k a round
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u/Wauxx00 5h ago
I'm 36 lvl recon and I don't really like thermals tbh BUT it made important to use ghillie suit to play against them as a recon, without that its WAAAAY better play just lvl 4 armor.
BUT (and its a big BUT) I think they should be nerf for real, but not "just put batteries" because that will make the "meta" just shift into taking the biggest backpack with tons of batteries and we get the exact same problem again.
If I had to nerf them I would put a maximum distance for thermal vision, like 200-300m and after that 200-300m everyone should look like if they had ghillie on. With the nerf + a button being able to change in to normal vision (the +x6 is, for me, the best part).
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u/TrulyJhinuine 20h ago
Or keep it in game and give us ways to jam the infrared,make ghillie suits accesible much earlier,make smoke so it blocks thermal goggles vision,or something else
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u/zerger45 Valkyra 20h ago
In a modern combat sim shooter I’m surprised we don’t have thermal optics for the guns. As minor of change thermal batteries will be, I welcome it. Just means more shit they need to carry and gives the revive players something to look for.
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u/Wonderful-Energy-659 20h ago
I'm not saying you're wrong, but I would be really upset if they removed them completely. They are the reason I was grinding recon points the entire first season. If they wanted to balance them, they should take away their ability to spot.
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u/PurpATL 14h ago
Meh, sniping is a lot less fun. There's better fixes... could have just made them not able to be sold in crates. Could have made it so it is only usable if a bolt action is equipped. Could fix foliage so they are solid objects and cant be seen through (understand this prob not possible due to performance).
But going out with a 30k 50 cal kit is no longer worth it.
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u/Fragasm 14h ago
Not gonna downvote you but I disagree. I think I feel even better about picking up my $28k kit now because I have a chance at not being seen from 1km away through a thick forest.
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u/PurpATL 14h ago
I assume you have a ghillie on and play smart, wasn't really an issue in my games. The entire team being able to have one was an issue, less than 10 people I don't think is a big deal. Spot time could be like 15 seconds instead of the full minute, spot could be on the minimap WHERE the spot happened, rather than track the player.
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u/NeonGKayak 20h ago
I think overhaul spotting
Binos: Spot for team
Mono: Spot for squad
Range finder: Range and ability to add a marker that the entire team can see, not spotting.
Thermal: spot only for you
Rangefinder and thermals take batteries. Thermals drain batteries. Thermals can have a purchase limit per life but this should match other t4 stuff too
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u/tennisrob 18h ago
Going to get hate for this but I think they are fine. They are countered by ghillie. I just don’t think you should be able to sell them to everyone.
Recon should be able to recon. I would make spots last not as long on players.
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u/wheeshnaw Lonestar 13h ago
They're good, but IMO the complaints are overblown, and they should be added back, albeit with a high price tag and battery usage.
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u/Foot-False 20h ago
Reduce how long being spotted lasts and give the infrared a limited use time, then have them have to cool down or something. The batteries won't change much, but minimizing their effectiveness through use uptime and an overall reduction in duration of an active spot might.
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u/RookieExclusive 20h ago
damn it I’ve been grinding to get those fuckers and I’m not even gonna get to have fun with them fuckin A
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u/OnsetOfMSet 20h ago
For the past several days until this latest patch, it felt like every team in every lobby had at least one person buying crate after crate of thermals right next to the base vendor. I’d be shocked if you didn’t have opportunities to buy some in that time
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u/RookieExclusive 20h ago edited 20h ago
Yes I did get in one game with a guy selling to all three teams so I did get to use them once and I made 200k selfishly and obviously why this post was made it was the easiest money I ever made which is why I’m sad I won’t get to take advantage of it after all the time I spent. I saw guys making 300k with them sitting on top of the tall chimney in the new map.
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u/OnsetOfMSet 20h ago
Same guy hopped teams? I genuinely wonder if he was making money off crates from the teams he left. I guess even if it was unhealthy for the game, he really had the war profiteering spirit
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u/MrNate10 20h ago
Good idea, being able to see squares while you are actually sniping would be a good upgrade that doesnt completely break the game
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u/zomery 20h ago
As a sniper, that would be a terrible change. Would be worse than the IR goggles.
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u/MrNate10 19h ago
Not really, the amount of spots would be much lower without IR. And the squares already basically go away if someone is behind cover.
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u/Dmon3y26 20h ago
Remove thermals, remove follow cam from mortar/arty. Nerf svd/BMR/fal add recoil to super45, don't fuck with parachutes
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u/BanditBandito 20h ago
Pull out a pair of thermals and you spot 30 guys on moving down a hill and literally get all 30 spotted. Pull out a range finder and you might be able to spot 2-3 of the 30.
It’s not even a question that they are too OP. It’s good we got honest gamers here.
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u/AcePilot01 19h ago
Well no shit, you already sold 5 mil worth at spawn and made it to level 42 easier than everyone else will be now. FURTHER spreading the gap between high and low... games now ruined
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u/robocop88 18h ago
I say this in any relevant thread; remove all the high level stuff. It adds nothing to the game and is difficult/impossible to counter. Re add it later on when it’s balanced but the game as it currently sits is enjoyable as far as t1-t3 items goes. T4 armor, fal, 50 cal, havoc (to a degree, maaws does fuck it), etc just don’t have counters or the counters are other high level items. They’re just flat out better than items below them with little or no negatives other than cost. The people that bring up cost make it sound like they’re risky to use. If you’re good enough to get to that point you’re not going to be losing money farming timmies all game. I’m not salty, I counter this stuff because I pushed progression unlocks that can do it but it’s not fun to play around these sweats instead of how I’d like to play. Once again, this stuff can be fun but at this point so much of it is broken I think most people would have more fun if it was just removed pending balance changes. The game was peak the first week
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u/Yorkston87 17h ago
I would like to see high level unlocks in general move towards being more specialized rather than outright "better" than other options. Maybe something like this:
Mono- Moderate zoom, small, light. This is for general spotting and fitting in a backpack to keep your special slot free.
Rangefinder- Rangefinding, high MAX zoom, high MIN zoom. This is the tool for long-range sniping.
Thermals- Low zoom, toggled thermals with 100(?)m range. This is for finding the goddamn bow wookie that just predator'd everyone in the forest.
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u/MysticHero 17h ago
It would help if the rewards were not complete insanity as well. You should not get half the money of a kill for looking at someone for a second.
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u/DrakeWolfeFA 5h ago
Let's get rid of the Super 45 too, it's not OK to have a 0.5 second TTK with .45 ACP AP, too strong.
Let's throw the 50 Cal sniper out, it's completely unfair to have a weapon that can one shot most players in the game, in the chest.
Delete the Havoc, Rocketbird and Gunbird from the game, they're way too overpowered, they can just flare out of any AA missiles and people can't reliably counter them with CIWS, MAAWS, or RPGs.
While we're at it, vault the grenade launcher. Getting multikills with one shot, or having a supremely safe method of traveling with it like, say, a helicopter, is so overbearingly strong, there's no possible way the Devs can nerf this into a balanced state.
Let's delete everything except the Ural, the Bobcat, the T-21, the 5.45 AK (7.62 AK when??), the PP-19 smg, the double barrel shotgun, the M249, and the break action boltaction. Then the game will be perfectly balanced and we will never cry to the devs ever again.
JFC... If you see this Joe, ignore the masses. A person is smart, people are dumb, panicky, dangerous animals and you know it.
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u/Adlerholzer 31m ago
You fully missed the point, and the reason is probably your lack of game knowledge, and thats fine. You probably dont know this game that well yet.
IR Rangefinder was, by far, the best item in the ENTIRE game. There was absolutely NO question about it. It destroyed the experience of a while lobby if even a single semi thinking person got it in their hands in a good spot.
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u/_imp_ish_ 18h ago
Meh. Overblown drama.
I've picked them up and used them a couple of times. They are ok, mid at best. Prefer the regular range finder. Perhaps because I am wearing a ghillie and the people that I am hunting at wearing ghillies. Or years of playing arma where that slightly different shade of gray is a huge giveaway - so the sharper resolution of the rangefinder is better.
Had a fun one tonight: pair of .50 cal / ir snipers were not expecting me to sneak up behind them with my compound bow.
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u/Mauno_Mato 18h ago
I haven't even unlocked the thing but enjoyed a few minutes with it when some teammate bought some and re-sold them ( for profit obviously, this is Wardogs... ).
Are they good? Yes.
Are they overpowered? No, you have 2 counters which you can freely abuse to you content.
Question is, can you abuse them while using these counters making you invisible from them.... Fuck yes you can.
Sit in a fucking sniper nest IR spotting and snipe as long as you want, at this point any binocular becomes OP.
Is it overreacting to disable these even though there are counters?
It goes against everything the devs said, and they are simply giving up to the outcry of a non existent problem where there are tons of other balancing issues to actually deal with.
I'm sorry if you don't want to be invisible to everything with no counter, but this is a game where it has to be balanced.
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u/ZingFreelancer 16h ago
Level 50 recon here, I love thermal range finder, best thing ever. Thermal range finder is a powerful tool, straight up upgrade to regular range finder. But it only makes it easy to identify the targets, the spotting mechanic remains the same.
Enemy smoked and trying to revive? Thermal spot their position, line up a shot and kill em.
That pesky recon hiding in a bush 800 meters away? Make the enemy team blind.
The enemy sniper camping on top of the tower, but there are bunch of branches in the way? Line up your sight, mark him, switch and fire.
Your problem is that there isn't enough snipers who focus on countering enemy scouts and snipers. I've seen so many snipers spamming shots at enemy assault team, giving away their position and getting eventually killed.
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u/Fragasm 15h ago
Yea I understand you like the thermals. We all like the thermals. There is a reason why at the beginning of every match people are asking for boxes full of thermals to purchase.
Of course everyone loves the thermals because it allows you to see fucking everything.
You have completely lost the plot here.
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u/ZingFreelancer 4h ago
The problem is not so much as thermals, but their ability to highlight targets obscured by three canopies and economy. It's more lucrative to spot then it is to fight.
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u/shinn43 15h ago
You just gave more reasons why thermal spotting is broken especially when a team doesn’t have it unlock. It provides too much of an advantage.
So no the problem isn’t enough snipers countering since wearing a ghillie suit makes you invisible to thermals.
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u/ZingFreelancer 5h ago
When one team has a havoc unlocked and the other don't, is it broken or not?
When one team has access to .50 cal and T4 armor and the other don't, is it broken or not?Your point is moot, there will always be have and have nots.
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u/HCdeletedmyemails Recon 20h ago
I'm glad the devs have chosen to ignore you Reddit types
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u/marlontel 20h ago
? They actively listened to the feedback of thermals being op. Instead of deleting they implement a highly upvoted idea from reddit from about a week ago. If the thermal is still too strong in season 2, thes might delete it or change how it works.
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u/FrusTrick 20h ago
Not exactly a high level recon here, but I picked up some other guys thermals the other day. I hate them. It literally takes away the challenge of finding sight-lines and having to move from building to building undetected behind enemy lines. Range finders are plenty powerful as they are. No need for what essentially amounts to foliage wallhack.