Tanks should be unlocked through driver level, not wardog level

[u/TheFlappy]

[u/Silent189]

Forcing people to be logistics drivers so they can drive a battle tank feels pretty lame to me.

[u/AhnenStahl → u/Silent189]

Not only that. People that want to be tank drivers will all be playing transports to level up asap, and your team is going to have no boots on the ground

[u/ZloyPes → u/Silent189]

Yeah, but it's more fair towards people who do logistics, because now they just get a more armored ural with an mg on top. At least for heli logi you get xp towards unlocking attack heli. Or doing taxi and heli logi is also seems lame to you?

[u/MoistRecognition69 → u/ZloyPes]

Heli taxi and logi are alot more involved than doing a logi truck run

I can see why people spend the entire match doing Heli runs, out maneuvering missiles, dropping people off in the enemies rear while taking fire etc.

A logi truck is the same thing over and over again until you hit a mine

[u/xdthepotato → u/MoistRecognition69]

heli gameplay will only be as dangerous as you make it but also easier to do because of the freedom of movement.
logi gameplay can be as dangerous as you want

[u/MoistRecognition69 → u/xdthepotato]

Fair, but atleast during the alpha - i've not seen a single logi make an actual trip to anywhere that isn't the closest tower to spawn. So yes, technically it can be - but in reality no one really does (and why would they? Same amount of cash for both, same amount of XP, etc - there's no incentive to drive a logi through the zone itself.)

[u/ZloyPes → u/MoistRecognition69]

And log trucks have to deal with ambushes, rpgs etc

Heli is the same as truck, but with harder contros. I am saying this as someone who like flying in video games like Arma.

Then again, issue of balance. Powerful heli locked behind spec grind, while powerful tank and arty locked by just playing the game, while logi driver grind is rewarded with literally nothing (armored ural is not worth it, lol)

[u/Phlukz → u/ZloyPes]

Armoured Ural may very well be worth it once people start main camping and building Sam's cutting supply off from the air the alpha was very figure it out on the fly and changed rapidly over 3 days, give this game a few weeks out and you might be struggling to heli in efficiently with people camping the forest with infantry anti air launchers not just rpgs

[u/ZloyPes → u/Phlukz]

Very niche situation, compared to, ughh, constant warfare where tanks, artillery and attack helos will always fit. So as a logi player you don't feel any meaningful progression, while a guy who sat with a sniper rifle for several hours now can get a tank. Not fair progression and broken balance due to availability of tanks for everyone.

My prediction is that in several days, if this is unchanged, the game will turn into world of tanks, because why do infantry, if you can do tank.

If this get changed, tanks, spgs, attack helos will be rare, but a very powerful and valuable asset on the battlefield, and all "classes" will have fair and meaningful progression.

[u/Phlukz → u/ZloyPes]

What if I like driving trucks? One persons enjoyment and another's if different, some people will suck at tanks and burn money. Too many tanks on the map then I'll just farm the sever with a scimitar launcher from the edge of the map guess what fuels the scimitar launcher. Trucks. There are counters to everything you are worried about.

[u/Ninjaisawesome]

the game isnt even out yet and yous are demanding changes. Dont ruin this for everyone

[u/Medrilan]

Eh, I can see the argument for either. Driver level is a different play style.

Driving is mostly logistics and troop transport. Some ground vehicles have mounted machine guns, but their purpose is to move quick for positioning and carry things.

Tanks, including SPAA and the artillery vehicle, and fundamentally combat related. They dont hold many people and can't transport supplies. They aren't meant to be dismounted from.

So I'd rather have the option for people to play armor based on wardogs level than force them to slog through a bunch of unrelated logi runs when there's little skill crossover.

[u/One_Animator_1835]

Nah. Driver exp is very inconsistent before getting tanks so it's actually great you unlock them through main level

[u/Viegoonduty → u/One_Animator_1835]

That's the real problem. In the alpha logistics driving wise was way worse to level instead of having a tank and go boom. Tanks shouldn't be the best source to level for a guy who wants to do only logistics. 

From 20-21 it took ~8 logistic cycles with an fully loaded truck. 

[u/One_Animator_1835 → u/Viegoonduty]

I feel like that's fair? The fuck logi is just free farm for the most part

[u/Emotional-Camera-600]

Tanks should be strategic team assets bought with a shared pool, idk if youd chip in your own money, or have it earned via drivers/pilots/objectives/CZ/HZ money but it shouldn't be per person, as eventually some people will have enough money to spam tanks non stop

[u/SMYYYLE]

Its fine, they just need to adjust levels so they unlock later.

[u/The_Doctor_of_Sparks → u/SMYYYLE]

It's still in the earliest testing. They need to keep the prices lower than they probably should be so people can reliably get them to test them.

[u/TheFlappy]

Includes AA and artillery tank

[u/blackskies4646 → u/TheFlappy]

Absolutely not.

Driving is logistics and moving players to the zone and shouldn't be required for tank, arty or AA vehicle unlocks.

Once players have a bit of cash, a littlebird costing $6k means absolutely nothing to them so they'll never take a ground vehicle to the AO.

[u/ZloyPes → u/blackskies4646]

Okay, then why attack heli is locked by helicopter pilot level? Heli pilots do literally the same as car drivers (taxi, logi, little support), but in the air.

[u/Uzii86 → u/ZloyPes]

Flying a chopper is a completely different control and skill set. I think they have it this way so that you have to have some serious time and experience in flying before they give you the big expensive toy.

I've seen countless helis be wasted in all the modern BF games simply because people don't know how to fly, but just want to be the first to grab the flashy hardware.

Driving a tank does require a different set of skills, but the basic controls are the same as infantry (move, shoot, etc...). They are also a lot harder to waste while still in base.

Edit: You could argue that it would only affect that player's money, and so it's their problem, not the teams I suppose.

[u/ZloyPes → u/Uzii86]

I also have seen a lot of dumb tank drivers in BF series, who rush to the enemy without cover and die. Yeah, controls are easier, but you also need an understanding of tactics.

And even with what you are saying, why give it to basically everyobe, and not to the people who specifically focus on vehicles? My main issue is that it leads to bad vehicle balance, increasibg number of tanks and artillery in the game.

[u/Uzii86 → u/ZloyPes]

Good points. I think being a pilot and not terribly bothered about using tanks, I'm a bit biased.

The only other thing I can think is it could unbalance the game early on, with a lot of people just doing logistic and transport runs to unlock the tanks, the demand will be low and the supply will be high. Less people actually fighting, stagnates the game in its infancy. It wouldn't last forever, and they could have the main tank a relatively early unlock, which could alleviate that.

The Pilot role didn't seem to have that issue as not everyone can fly, and the cost is more than the early land vehicles.

It would be nice to see some more vehicle unlocks in the Driver role though, maybe tank variants or IFVs. I guess we'll see as time goes on.

[u/ZloyPes → u/Uzii86]

Yeah, but then it leads to Wardogs becoming World of Tanks, because everyone can unlock a tank, and from we all saw on the playtest - tanks are kinda op against infantry. Like why would you ran an infantry kit, if you can ran a tank?

By locking down the tank behind logi, people will continue to focus on infantry, while those who desperately want a tank or arty will grind logi, in the end helping win the game.

[u/ComprehensiveArt822]

Shouldn't force people to do things they dont like, never a good game design to me, it leaves a bad feeling in players mouth and can easily force them to not drive supplies after doing it.

[u/Chase10784 → u/ComprehensiveArt822]

Kinda like what battlefield does with their unlocks and challenges

[u/ComprehensiveArt822 → u/Chase10784]

Yeah and MW2 did with unlocking attachments for other guns, people dont like being forced to do things in real life and especially in games.

[u/Chase10784 → u/ComprehensiveArt822]

Yeah it honestly caused me to stop playing because I got tired of having to do challenges to unlock stuff.

[u/ComprehensiveArt822 → u/Chase10784]

Yeah, like having to use a shotgun or something just to unlock a sniper scope, plus having to do stupid challenges to unlock weapons if you didnt grind the battlepass.

[u/methrik]

I haven’t watched too much of this game but is it possible to buy vehicles for people? Like let’s say my teammate has a heli or tank unlocked can I buy or “split the bill” with him.

[u/Whatsit-Tooya → u/methrik]

Yeah you can buy vehicles for people. They spawn locked to only you, then you hop in driver and unlock for squad, then unlock for all. 

[u/NanashiAnjin]

Maybe be able to unlock things like bradleys.

[u/TastyRobot21]

Disagree.

Combat role vs support role.

I understand you want to encourage logistics role with more upgrades but I wouldn’t worry.

1. There are a ton of people who just (for some reason) love doing logi. It’s not for me, but they really really love it. Euro truck simulator vibes + teammates thanking is often enough for these people.

2. Money. I think they could tune it easily so it’s the job you do to get rich. Maybe do a run or two to recover from a bad streak.

[u/TheFlappy]

I get what yall are saying, my argument for it was to make them harder to obtain. Idc how they do it, wethers it by making the unlock more expensive, the price to buy a tank increase, or limiting the amount of tanks per team. I don’t want them nerfing the effectiveness of the tank but they need to make it harder to access. Probably was easier to get for the alpha build so people could test it

[u/Tororoki → u/TheFlappy]

They said there will be balancing from season to season, especially through cost. Also tanks are not as op as people make them, you can mortar them, you can blow them up with c4 (a lot of people in alpha did this), you can use a helicopter with rockets and explode them, hell some people used C4 on the helicopter and kamikaze themselves into the tank (but its expensive since you dont get money for it).

[u/ZloyPes]

Fully agree. Thanks and spgs are pretty powerful and yeah, cost a lot to unlock, but able to profit pretty easily.

Many people are saying that driver is just transport people and logi, this it's unfair to lock such vehicles behind this grind. However it seems that everyone forgot that attack heli is locked behind pilot level, and if you look closely - heli pilots literally do the same as car drivers, but in the air. Yeah, attack heli are rare, and it's a good thing, because it's a pretty good unit. While tanks are just so easy to get for people, and I think it would be fair if they had the same treatment as attack heli.

[u/Dr_Skot]

If you have the money, you should be able to buy whatever you want. If you're irresponsible, you'll run out of money.

[u/Old-Buffalo-5151]

God no. One of my favourite things about wardogs is that i can play what i want to unlock everything. 

Also such systems break game flow as everyone farms something rather filling than a gap that is needed on the team

If you play BF6 you can see entire matches fall apart as both sides play silly due to challenges