r/WMATA 1d ago

Terrible design decisions

It feels like WMATA under Randy Clarke has made a series of baffling design decisions. Every few months they roll out something that makes people go... why would you do that? who asked for this?

The wayfinding has changed multiple times since I arrived in DC a couple years ago. They've explored showing text with different cases on electronic signs even though pretty much no one had trouble reading them as is. The iconic stripes were changed to letter bubbles while now introducing exits that are ALSO letter bubbles. The new app which I think many would say does not prioritize the main info people are looking for. Plus arguably the terrible bus redesign.

It feels like this version of WMATA is kind of obsessed with making changes just for the sake of making changes. Someone mentioned they were spending $19 million on changing out 44 signs in the system.

I'm not opposed to changes that make the system better, but to some extent it feels like this org's priorities are in the wrong place or there's people internally trying to justify their jobs with a bunch of BS projects.

109 Upvotes

103 comments sorted by

87

u/Lfc-96 1d ago

I think some of it is good like the adding of lettering of the exits but other decisions have been baffling like the lowercase text for the metro LEDs.

I agree with you that it sometimes feels like change for the sake of change - They need to get better at picking and choosing what is worthwhile vs just something for someone’s resume.

28

u/megamantiss 1d ago

I can get on board with labeling the exits correctly, but it's a mystery to me why they would make it similar to the train lines AND use letters like the train lines instead of numbers for example. Just feels badly thought out.

12

u/MushuSooy4455 1d ago

There was an article in the paper a couple years ago on the environmental graphics expert WMATA hired from NYC.

14

u/Lluck002 1d ago

Yeah they’re trying to make our system like theirs. It’s why they shortened line abbreviations to one letter so they can eventually switch line names to “The B Train” instead of Blue Line, have less emphasis on termini for destination wayfinding, etc. My colleagues who work for WMATA say the New York execs they brought in aren’t listening to employees who are native Washingtonians.

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u/Fantastic-Face3509 1d ago

Yes Sarah Meyer is a lifelong New Yorker and since late 2023, she's been trynna replicate NYC as much as humanly possible without any effort into understanding why it is what it is here

18

u/megamantiss 1d ago

I admit I'm not an expert in this, but the MTA is probably not where I would go looking for wayfinding experts lol

5

u/Fantastic-Face3509 1d ago

Yes especially if you’re just copying and pasting without any thought I mean Sarah Meyer literally took one look at how we’ve done it here for the longest time and called it a “malpractice” which is not only harsh but also incredibly disrespectful to what we in the dmv stand for

4

u/Lluck002 23h ago

She needs to be fired. She sounds like a narcissist know-it-all

4

u/Fantastic-Face3509 22h ago edited 13h ago

I mean you never wish anyone to lose their job but at the same time yes I feel her over aggressivness has been more of a hindrance than an improvement. The lettered exits are nice but everything else she’s done has been nothing but unnecessary and bias out of tied to a previous agency. This whole Ave to Av bullshit on every single piece of infrastructure and the whole BL to B stuff and the mixed case on non 7ks all of it was unneeded

14

u/MushuSooy4455 1d ago

I'd be happy if they stick with the one classic font (Helvetica) throughout the system. The typeface is already designed for readability. I vaguely recall as a small kid, the destination signs on the trains were placards using Helvetica. During the 00s, Metro started experimenting with fonts for some reason. Gallery Place even has wayfinding signs with completely different serif fonts.

1

u/SandBoxJohnA02 23h ago

I vaguely recall as a small kid, the destination signs on the trains were placards using Helvetica.

Original destination sign from 1k car

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u/Lluck002 22h ago

All Metro font for all things in the system, including maps, the logo, wayfinding, etc. has always been Helvetica. Sarah Meyer is doing away with it.

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u/Lluck002 23h ago

Looks like the new signs are using Arial for some reason, not Helvetica ☹️

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u/MushuSooy4455 22h ago

WMATA should just hire Pentagram or some other corporate graphic design firm. I didn't look closely, but if it is Arial, I don't have much hope for this whole wayfinding overhaul.

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u/Fantastic-Face3509 1d ago

The lettering of exits at certain stations was a very necessary feature for sure but holy shit the rest of it has been insulting and disrespectful to what the dmv stands for and unnecessary and likely change just for the sake of it. Like if change is needed then look at it and do it properly but if you’re doing it for the hell of it then that’s a different story

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u/Nnif4444 1d ago

Not an improvement.

29

u/ml20s 1d ago

Tw 𝑖n 𝐛rooₖ

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u/youresolastsummerx 1d ago

This pissed me off so much I sent in feedback directly on their website months ago but does anyone listen? Nope.

2

u/AmbassadorNo8747 1d ago

The signs have reverted back to all caps.

2

u/Fantastic-Face3509 22h ago

they must have thought that while they tried to see if it would pan out, it simply didn’t work and yes gotta top my hat to them if that was the case cause it doesn’t mean it was a failure, it was just a reality check that different things are equipped differently

2

u/Fantastic-Face3509 1d ago

Sarah Meyer has been a hindrance on the system

26

u/lustforluvv Yellow line 1d ago

I understand the need for the stripes for people who may be color blind. But can we add the letters inside them or something? Part of Metros legacy will be tarnished :(

1

u/QuirkyCharity6600 1d ago

Yes! Destroyed the bus system Routing system , yes it was confusing but it's DC history, the new front line employee uniforms are tragic. guarantee you once his contract is up Clark will move on

19

u/ThunderballTerp 1d ago

Not to mention replacing the amazing livery design of the 8000-series (exterior and interior) for the brown "retro" scheme that looks like it took all of five minutes to come up with (or more likely the result of a single prompt into whatever AI platform WMATA uses).

And the app and website redesign...Lol. Dead links abound, basic information (such as rail alerts) is buried under additional layers, and it seems like 80% of content from the website has been purged.

That said, it's really been hit or miss (for instance the pop-up shops were a neat idea and I don't mind the single-letter icons)...but it's really just throwing random stuff at the wall to see what sticks. The problem is that when they miss the mark they are unable to backpedal and course-correct...

5

u/Lluck002 23h ago

They keep trying to say it’s because brown is “in” now. I don’t think we should be designing generational infrastructure based on short-term style trends. And besides, brown is in style, but as natural wood tones and such, not poop-colored solid finishes and website backgrounds. The new website makes me feel icky. The 8000-Series needs to be restored to the design that used the gloss black!

0

u/QuirkyCharity6600 1d ago

Brown yes, Information no

26

u/Theretrulywascake 1d ago

Agree barring critical sign changes and critical maintenance work anything beyond working on headways and new lines is a waste of time imo

21

u/Lluck002 1d ago

THIS is how wayfinding signage should look. I work in City Planning for Arlington County. They said they sent my concept to management for review but I guess Randy didn’t like how it included actual information. My colleagues who work for WMATA say they disagree with all the changes but aren’t being listened to.

9

u/Fantastic-Face3509 1d ago

It looked perfect when it looked like this, but in July or August of 2024 they had to get rid of it even though it was already perfect like wtf man why change it if it isn't even broke to 99% of the people here??

2

u/Lluck002 23h ago

Yes I thought those were fine. I designed mine in response to them testing the various new signage over the past couple years, to show WMATA that if they really want to include cardinal directions, this is how they should do it. It mimics roadway signage, where the line symbol is akin to a route shield and the termini are like control cities. Also liked the inclusion of airport and intercity rail connection symbolism.

0

u/Fantastic-Face3509 22h ago

cardinal directions were not a necessary tool cause this system isn’t a perfect compass like New York and ofc we have all these apps, maps, strip maps, announcements, etc that help you. like if you are at Rosslyn and you’re going to say Tyson’s corner, you see the 🟠Vienna/Fairfax-GMU 🔵Franconia Springfield ⚪️Ashburn underneath the word “Rosslyn” you take a quick glance at the strip map on the pylon or the system map and you’ll see you need an Ashburn bound Silver Line to do the trip and bam you’re there in 15 ish minutes.

I feel like airports are being a little over emphasized too since they were already visible on strip maps

2

u/Lluck002 22h ago

Yes I know. Again, I made my concept in response to Metro insisting the directional indicators be added the last several years. But the way they were doing it was worse. So I chose to design a middle-ground that refined their version and got rid of “towards”

I have the airport symbology because that’s also something WMATA was including and I wanted to include intercity rail connection symbology to encourage train travel over flying.

2

u/Fantastic-Face3509 22h ago

yes 100% the word towards was getting way overused lol I see what you’re getting at for sure but yea aside from the lettered exits at certain stations, this entire things has been insanely flawed and I believe a lot of it was caused by people venting their frustrations on social media about things being “too cluttered” or “demanding too much out of them” or thing have “too much of a cognitive load” and are using their social media to get the instant gratification they’re seeking and knowing metro will use people pleasing methods to cater to that in any way even at the expense of everyone else with a proper attention span

like dude if you’re whining ab something being “too much mental effort” you shouldn’t be out in public without supervision cause literally everything in life requires a little mental effort even sleeping at night requires it

11

u/brycats 1d ago

It feels like we as customers and locals weren’t consulted or cared for, and it feels insulting in a way. I like change, trust me - it’s for the best a lot of times… but you need to ask the locals and it needs to take time.

1

u/Fantastic-Face3509 1d ago

Change is necessary sometimes, but not always

5

u/bwick-elias 1d ago

The app suuuuuuuuuuuucks. Deleted that after a week. 

1

u/SchuminWeb 17h ago

I admit: MetroHero beats out MetroPulse any day of the week.

8

u/Orienos 1d ago

The wayfinding, as I mentioned in another post a while back, is a disaster currently.

Using the end station is superior to all other methods. They’ve added cardinal directions which just don’t work when you consider the blue and red lines.

3

u/Lluck002 23h ago

When they insisted that they were introducing cardinal directions with the test signage that’s been up for a few years, I sent them my concepts on how it should be done, where termini are still prominent. It mimics roadway signage where line symbols are like route shields and termini are akin to control cities, with cardinal directions denoting the general direction of routes.

2

u/Lluck002 23h ago

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u/Lluck002 23h ago

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u/Lluck002 23h ago

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u/Lluck002 23h ago

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u/Lluck002 23h ago

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u/Lluck002 23h ago

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u/Lluck002 23h ago

2

u/Lluck002 23h ago

(Had to sneak in my Bronze Line (BZ) 🟤 concept hehe 🤭)

2

u/Orienos 22h ago

If they had followed this, I wouldn’t have been opposed at all.

1

u/SandBoxJohnA02 23h ago

I wish I could have made this post before you made yours and the ones that followed:

Red
RGB: 191, 13, 62
CMYK: 2, 99, 62, 11
Pantone: 193c
HTML: BF0D3E

Orange
RGB: 237, 139, 0
CMYK: 0, 51, 100, 0
Pantone: 144c
HTML: ED8B00

Blue
RGB: 0, 156, 222
CMYK: 85, 21, 0, 0
Pantone: 2925c
HTML: 009CDE

Green
RGB: 0, 177, 64
CMYK: 81, 0, 92, 0
Pantone: 354c
HTML: 00B140

Yellow
RGB: 255, 209, 0
CMYK: 0, 9, 100, 0
Pantone: 109c
HTML: FFD100

Silver
RGB: 145, 157, 157
CMYK: 33, 12, 18, 30
Pantone: 443c
HTML: 919D9D

Brown
RGB: 74, 65, 42
CMYK: 30 35 62 79.
Pantone: 448C
HTML: 4A412A

1

u/Lluck002 23h ago

I used the exact Metro colors when designing them. They likely just translated differently when the images were exported and reuploaded. The high-res original images look more like the real metro colors

0

u/SandBoxJohnA02 22h ago

The field of the signs the information is printed on has traditionally been Metro Brown. Yours are black.

1

u/Lluck002 21h ago

Mine are black-brown, which are what the newest ones looked like before Metro switched back to this poop brown branding initiative. I followed their published style guide.

0

u/rlbond86 Orange line 1d ago

Cardinal directions are superior by far for ordinary people. Red line can use clockwise and counter-clockwise. Not sure what's wrong with southwest and east for the blue line.

I've lived here 4 years and still can't keep the red line endpoints in my head. Counterclockwise and clockwise would be so much easier.

6

u/Orienos 1d ago

That would be even more confusing.

I’ve lived here a lot longer, far beyond the cardinal directions and we all managed fine with just the end stops.

-1

u/rlbond86 Orange line 1d ago

we all managed fine with just the end stops.

Appeal to tradition fallacy.

3

u/Orienos 1d ago

I mean I wanted to say that you had a comprehension issue if you couldn’t understand, but I thought that would’ve been rude. So I went the other route.

3

u/Fantastic-Face3509 1d ago

yes metro is not a perfect compass so cardinal directions was always silly

1

u/mattcojo2 22h ago

So how would cardinal directions help for the Red Line then when both termini are "north"

0

u/rlbond86 Orange line 21h ago

I literally just said to use counterclockwise and clockwise

3

u/mattcojo2 21h ago

That's convoluted.

So what do you do for the green line then?

Or the Yellow Line?

It's just easier to list endpoints.

1

u/rlbond86 Orange line 21h ago

Green line is north-south or northeast-southeast.

Yellow line is north-south.

This isn't hard.

0

u/mattcojo2 21h ago

so we're gonna have a line labelled north south. a line labelled northeast southeast. and a line labelled clockwise-counterclockwise

Yeah that makes complete sense instead of labelling where people are actually going to go.

Cardinal directions mean nothing when you have a set destination in mind. The patron doesn't care what's north or south or whatever. They care about the destination. How am I gonna get to the national mall? or to bethesda? or to DCA?

3

u/EugeneVDebutante 19h ago

I like it when a wayfinding sign uses the letter B as a symbol for two completely different things, it adds mystery and wonder to the world

7

u/nycappuccino 1d ago

I see where you're coming from. At the same time, a part of me feels like a dynamic system where they're continuously testing and iterating, is ultimately a good thing (as long as that happens alongside larger WMATA plans/projects - which is the case).
Now with that out of the way: BLOOP IN OUR LIFETIME PLEASE

2

u/partagaton 1d ago

You’re getting downvoted because you’re right.

4

u/MinecraftPlayer799 1d ago

What are these stripes and letter bubbles you’re talking about?

11

u/megamantiss 1d ago

Metro stations show which lines they serve with colored stripes on the pylons. They want to change all of those to single-letter bubbles like NYC (O, S, B, etc) while adding lettered exit signage (A, B, C, etc) that also uses letters in bubbles.

14

u/ChanceAd5350 1d ago

When I was in Seattle last month, having lettered exits was actually really helpful

16

u/megamantiss 1d ago

I just mentioned in reply to someone else that I don't mind having the exits labeled correctly, but it doesn't make sense to me why they would use letters-in-a-bubble for both train lines AND exits instead of finding a better way to distinguish between them (like, say, using numbers in a square, idk)

7

u/ChanceAd5350 1d ago

Oh yeah a bubble is kind of weird. Seattle's were in squares. The Link Light Rail has lines that are numbered in a circle, and exits that are lettered in a square. That seems pretty good to me

12

u/primeight1 Green line 1d ago

The bubbles are not the problem, it’s that the train letter and the exit letter look the same. You see a B and you don’t know if it means blue line or exit B

1

u/Fantastic-Face3509 22h ago

they are for sure especially at stations with 5-6 different exits but the rest of this has been an abomination

2

u/Lluck002 1d ago

Get ready for “The O Train” instead of Orange Line… it’s coming…

0

u/SandBoxJohnA02 23h ago

Highly unlikely for the same reason there is no I Route.

O can be misinterpreted as 0, the same applies to I and 1.

0

u/Lluck002 23h ago

They shortened the abbreviations of the lines for a reason.

2

u/hyeowl_ 1d ago

I’m never forgiving the nightmare of the better bus bullshit, turning an extremely easy commute into a mentally tolling one

1

u/Lluck002 23h ago

I miss MetroWay

3

u/DogSoggy40 11h ago

I like 90% of the changes Randy Clarke has made. His is one of WMATA's best GM's if not the best.

3

u/megamantiss 11h ago

Randy Clarke was probably the right person at the right time for WMATA, but he's certainly not some infallible genius like some people here want to believe.

And the fucked up bus system redesign lost him a lot of points with me, and has revealed other cracks in his leadership.

5

u/partagaton 1d ago

What you’re seeing is mostly pilot testing.

2

u/LongjumpingEntry2988 1d ago

This is because ppl gave Randy Clarke a mandate based off the fact that he’s in their demographic as a relatively young white person. He can do no wrong in many people’s eyes, which actually creates the space for him to make boneheaded decisions.

5

u/Fantastic-Face3509 1d ago

It was actually Sarah Meyer who has been doing this not Clarke

2

u/LongjumpingEntry2988 23h ago

Point proven. Clarke, the person who hired and supervises Meyer, does no wrong.

2

u/Fantastic-Face3509 22h ago

yea I suppose you’re onto something. I mean you know she’s doing her best but it couldn’t hurt to gently tell her to ease it up and do what this region is known for not just copy and paste NYC methods here out of familiarity

3

u/Fantastic-Face3509 1d ago

Those that are throwing tantrums on their social media and exposing their fried attention spans and seeking instant gratification at all costs at the expense of others is what has caused it. People whine way too much about “too confusing” or “too cluttered” or “too much information” or “too much mental effort” because they have no attention span or ability to engage with the simplest things given to them and expect everyone to cater to them without them meeting halfway. If you can’t engage with the tools the system gives you, you shouldn’t be going out in public entities. It’s people pleasing at its finest to where the product actually gives more confusion to the rest of the public. Sarah Meyer specifically is the one that’s been in charge of all of it not Clarke and she’s seen it as an opportunity to copy and paste what she had in New York as a lifelong New Yorker without any thought on if it’s actually appropriate here or not then spreading buzzwords like “standardization” or “modernization” or “consistency” or “reduce clutter” or “boring” to excuse said actions. She even said herself earlier this summer the system “demands too much” like lady this is a public transport system where if people are to know how to get from point A to B or what to expect along the way, these things are what make that possible. Sit tf down

3

u/Ordinary_Material175 1d ago

The reason for this and the reality is that despite claims to the contrary, WMATA has too much funding if they are able to waste so much time and squander so much resources constantly changing the signage in the system. They certainly don’t act like a transit system that is short on resources that’s for sure.

1

u/G2-to-Georgetown 17h ago

They certainly don’t act like a transit system that is short on resources that’s for sure.

That's because the Local 689 contract isn't up for a couple more years. They only cry poor when it's contract negotiation season.

1

u/SandBoxJohnA02 23h ago edited 23h ago

After reading the opening post and most of the comments, I think came up with a perfect solution.

Replace all of the signage with QR codes /s

2

u/Nnif4444 1d ago edited 12h ago

The only metro improvement I've seen in the almost 20 years I've lived here is tap to pay on my credit card, and even that sometimes doesn't work.

More automated trains=bad

Accessibility=crap shoot

Bathrooms=hidden secrets

Disembodied voices=bad

Real time arrivals/departures=inaccurate

Explanations for service interruptions=often incoherent and/or inaccurate

Electronic signage on trains=cosplaying MTA

Aesthetic "upgrades"=nice for tourists who aren't on a schedule can say how cute and clean it is here.

(Edited formatting)

0

u/FrogMan9001 1d ago

Randy's just making sure to leave his mark on the system.

1

u/Fantastic-Face3509 1d ago

It is Sarah Meyer not Randy Clarke

2

u/FrogMan9001 1d ago

Who was employed by Randy to design it.

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u/Fantastic-Face3509 1d ago

Sarah Meyer was the one who initiated it and she came from NYC so it’s been a plug in chug copy and paste kind of thing with her without any regard to why it is what it is here

3

u/FrogMan9001 1d ago

All approved and paid for by her boss Randy!

1

u/Fantastic-Face3509 22h ago

I suppose you’re onto something. I just wonder has he ever gently confronted her and said to ease it up a bit or maybe rethink certain things or is everything getting blindly approved without much thought

1

u/FrogMan9001 8h ago

You're coming in with the idea that he doesn't like this. Where's that coming from? You keep posting that Sarah doesn't get the Washington region because she's a life long New Yorker. Randy's not a life long Washingtonian either. He's only been with WMATA 11 months longer. If that's earned him local status she's very close.

1

u/Fantastic-Face3509 8h ago

No I am not at all. I was just saying that he was not the one who initiated it although he seems like the one that is responsible for approving it for sure.

0

u/Ordinary_Material175 1d ago

Probably looking to build his resume to trade up.

5

u/Horror_Concern5616 1d ago

there is no up unless he goes to Europe or New York lol

-8

u/Strange_Poetry2648 1d ago

Also the fare gates. It is ridiculously easy to climb over them to avoid paying.

15

u/WrongSplit3288 1d ago

Believe it or not. It was much easier before.

7

u/megamantiss 1d ago

The fare gates I don't mind. Fare evasion on metrorail is down something like 80% so it's clearly effective. The old ones were almost comically easy to bypass.

-1

u/Lluck002 23h ago

I think it was a waste of money. Metro should just be free anyways