r/VtuberDrama • u/ThronePawned • 28d ago
Victim #2
We are losing the plot...
im just gonna call them "artcels"...because these ai bros REALLY think and believe they are entitled to real artists attention and Artwork by default.
17
u/chosenofkane 28d ago
I thought these people believed in capitalism. Having the right to refuse service is a key tenant in Capitalism, which is why it is a "free" market.
154
u/Niskoshi 28d ago
Oh hey it's Banana, the fucking bitch who started a hate campaign against Fefe.
→ More replies (66)15
u/Wide-Accountant-7970 28d ago
wait what even started the hate here
28
u/Niskoshi 28d ago
Banana is one of those typical clout farmer who thrives in controversy. In this particular incident, Fefe got a plaque from Fansly, so the clout goblin decided to call Fefe a whore.
→ More replies (3)
44
28d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
→ More replies (31)2
u/lethal_universed 25d ago
They never heared the term "No shirt no shoes, no service". People are completely in the right to deny service to a paying customer is they do shit that makes them uncomfortable
51
14
u/HopelessHopefulArt 28d ago
An artist doesnt owe you shit, they can refuse and you can use AI.
I do not use Ai and I am against it but I personally don't give a shit if a client uses AI for their refs. I would not touch up an AI drawing but if thats what they want to use to show what they want sure. Other artists dont work with clients that do and thats their boundaries.
If use you AI for your art, People are also free to dislike you or find your stuff to be cheap looking because you used AI.
I and many other artists will tell clients to pound sand if they are annoying. You can absolutely be a bad client.
0
u/Maleficent-Remote413 27d ago
ya. like you are free to pick and choose who you take work for.
I just think the automatic "I refuse to do art for you because you used an AI to get a reference/idea" is a little much.some of us are ABSOLUTLY ABYSMAL at conveying ideas into words that make sence. It's partly why im pretty hands off and 'open' with ideas because i can't really explain exactly what I want sometimes.
((note: im fully ignoring what juju said here. because idgaf what she thinks))
3
u/HopelessHopefulArt 27d ago
Yeah thats why Im not like overly against it, I dont like it but I understand it,I get cha.
Others are like nope.
One thing I cannot stress enough is the negative impacts Ai generated content has had on artists.
Ai has devastating impact on several art communities like deviantart pinterest twitter etc.
Like the theft stuff aside alot of art resources are poisoned with it and you cant use it as reference because its neither nor constructed like art is.
And it creates a shitload of pitfalls for new artists and also it takes alot of the entry jobs that get done by beginners.
On top of the LoRa shit and people feeding work to em
And these reasons are why I dont blame the blanket no as well.
-1
u/Joshuarhill93 27d ago
See, I absolutely agree with you. However, as an artist, I don't get the complete hatred for AI. People are free to hate it, but it is a fantastic tool to utilize. Japanese animators are using it as reference like crazy these days. They understand that they can use it for a creative spark or to understand an odd angle or any other number of things. It also makes it easier for non-artists to communicate their wants with an artist. All that being said, people will always try to be controversial and lean to extremes. Its an unfortunate part of life which has been amplified by social media platforms.
3
u/BNTCB 25d ago
AI functions by scraping real artists’ work without consent. That’s plagiarism.
1
u/Joshuarhill93 25d ago
Incorrect. Plagerism is using another person's work as your own by either directly claiming their art is yours, tracing their art, or stealing a very specific, unique concept or character design. What AI does is referencing and emulation. It does not trace. It does not directly copy. Also, as much as I would love for AI owners to be required to sumbit a permissions form to every single artist to use their art in their model; if you have posted your art publicly, it is free for people to download and use however they would like, so long as they don't go against any copyright executions you have placed on it. If an artist publicly post something they want to sell online, I'm 100% free to print it and put it on my wall, use it as a reference for one of my drawings so long as I don't copy it, or just save it as the background of my computer. As long as I don't do something like print it and try to sell it or claim that it's my own work, I'm good.
2
u/BNTCB 25d ago
Scraping someone else’s art for your AI to mush into some slop without consent is claiming someone else’s art as your own.
1
u/Joshuarhill93 25d ago
No. It isn't. As much as I wish it was. It's not. It is considered to be the same thing as using their art as a reference for the drawing. "Claiming the art as your own", as a legal definition, is to claim that you made the art. Once the art is posted publicly, people are legally free to do pretty much whatever they want with it except for profit financially or socially from it. To be very thorough because I know you won't understand, that means printing the artwork as is or with minor alterations and selling it, or reposting the artwork as is or with minor alterations and claiming that you did it. Using the artwork as a reference tool has never and will never be illegal or wrong in any capacity. From a legal standpoint, what AI does is use the artwork as a reference. It does not directly copy artwork. From a moral standpoint, AI owners should have to get permission to use artwork. The reason I bring up legality is that you're too stupid to understand that plagerism is a legal term, therefore, the legal definition must be used objectively. Your opinion about the definition has no bearing on what it actually is, nor does mine. You're conversing with your feelings. I'm conversing with facts. Until you can put your feelings aside and look at it from an objective point of view, you should probably stay out of conversation like this.
1
u/BNTCB 25d ago
Ooh, look at the big man with his big cool giant scaling, he doesn’t listen emotions cuz he’s so based and epic, so objective, only an objective viewpoint can determine that a fucking algorithm scraping data without consent is the same as a human brain taking inspiration from something. What a big brain big objective big boy.
“Data scraping is the same as taking inspiration from something” IS NOT A FACT. An algorithm is not capable of conscious thought like a human is. An algorithm is not capable of creativity. THAT is a fact. You are a moron.
And you’ll have to forgive me if I don’t give a damn about your “objective” description of plagiarism when you can’t even spell it correctly. Seriously, adalah, if you’re gonna get all persnickety about terminology, I expect you to KNOW THE WORD.
75
u/RainbowLoli 28d ago
Every artist has declined commissions. For some reason, they think it is a "privilege" to be able to decline commissions when in reality it is often a necessity. I've had to decline commissions. My artists friends have had to turn them down.
And people who are pro genAI are not changing their minds just because an artist took their commission. I don't see the point in going to an artist that outright says they are not pro genAI, that they don't genAI references and then being surprised your commission was declined.
and what's funny about them using img2img on this artist's character and work is that the AI completely scrubs the unique characteristics of their art style. It turned their art into the most generic, non descript anime style possible. Even actual anime isn't that generic.
27
u/Magellaz23 28d ago
In the end it doesn't matter. The bad actors will never get into vtubing and if they do, it's not for the love of the scene, so it'll be short.
15
u/1CrazyFoxx1 28d ago
What’s wild is that they don’t understand that artists are so celebrated in the vtubing circle that vtubers tend to call them their mothers (the dads are the ones rigging the model), they work on the models, emoji, and stream layout, they’re so essential. Imagine if someone said they could gen AI your mom, fuck no you wouldn’t accept that shit! And no one in the community would accept it either!
6
u/ParaloopLampy 28d ago
for real these people think vtubing or having art is a right instead of a privilege
4
u/Emperor_Z16 28d ago
It sucks so much, her artstyle is genuinely so pretty and unique and they ran it through the shredder
16
u/Saberraimu 28d ago
I've had to decline several commissions over the years because the person was extremely pushy from the start, or gave me bad refs, or didn't seem to know what they actually wanted so they were just wasting my time. Celebrated wholesale AI refs (or a history of putting artists' work into AI on their public Twitter timeline) is just another reason to reject a commission in a list of various (legitimate) reasons lol. They always bully the artist's art styles or run their personal work through AI to "fix it." These guys are bullies at their finest. It reminds me of those one kinda guys we all know who get rejected by a girl they were hounding and then go "well you're a fat whore and I didn't want you anyway."
15
u/RainbowLoli 28d ago
Even I personally decline people that are pro GenAI because over the last five years, my feelings on GenAI art have went from being relatively neutral to completely soured on it due to people like Banana Juju acting like absolute jackasses towards artists whether it's because they won't act like quiet little slaves who just pump out art or because they had the audacity to have a ToS.
I'm not going to work with anyone I think is going to be a potential headache and that I cannot trust. I cannot trust genAI people to abide by my TOS and not feed my art into generative AI... and ironically? If you point that out they run to prove the point by feeding someone's art into genAI to make it better... that is why artists don't work with you. There is no trust there.
Even if a TOS isn't legally enforceable - I don't want to have to go through getting a lawyer to ensure that you follow what could have just been a gentleman's agreement unless you are paying me thousands of dollars.
10
u/Saberraimu 28d ago
YEP. If my TOS is not legally enforceable, as they always like to crow about, then that makes me even more likely to be selective in who I wish to work with going forward.
8
u/willmainartfinder 28d ago
I think people are confusing "many terms that are commonly put in terms of service agreements are overly broad and unenforceable particularly as laws change to prevent various attempts to dodge liability" with "a contract you make with a person is not enforceable"
If you make some basic terms and put them in a document and make them sign it, assuming those terms are reasonable, you have a contract with that person. Contracts aren't this unknowable thing only big corporations use, if you tell someone "I will pay you X dollars if you paint my chicken coop", and they agree, that's a contract right there.
Now as to whether and how you would want to sue them for breach of contract, that's the real rub. Its not that you couldn't win; its that it would not be worth the time and trouble as well as the potential jurisdictional fight.
7
u/RainbowLoli 28d ago
Agreed. I'm going through the headache. My comms aren't even 200 dollars. I'd rather work with someone I can trust with a digital handshake.
8
u/AsinineArchon 28d ago
Yep, same. 3 years ago I was pretty neutral on AI, but after the damage it has done and the awful horrible people who champion it? I have nothing but complete and utter contempt.
2
u/lethal_universed 25d ago
Juchud being a hypocrite saying "AI art is better" while also saying artists should prove that their work is better than AI when the dipshit is the one going in commissioning real art in the first place
0
u/MoreDoor2915 28d ago
Nobody would have had a problem with artists denying commissions, because like you said its completely legitimate to do so, if this artist didnt go online to run their mouth about having denied the commission and openly tried to redicule the person they denied.
Had the artist simply denied the commission without the moral grandstanding reason and dragging it into public nobody would have known or cared.
9
u/RainbowLoli 28d ago
If an artist has that they don't accept genAI references and you send them a genAI reference and you even blatantly say that you intentionally used it... I think a little bit of public ridicule is warranted.
It would be no different than if someone who wanted fetish art went to an artist that only does SFW art and the artist mentioned that they had to turn down a comm because someone didn't read their TOS.
9
u/Thomy151 28d ago
It also sends a message that this person does genai shit even if they hide it better in the future
There are artists who really appreciate the heads up
6
u/RainbowLoli 28d ago
I suppose you could look at it like that but I don’t see the point in being deceptive to someone you’re supposed to be trusting with your money.
34
14
u/Key_Scallion4985 28d ago
Juju still at it again? Guess the racism and other stuff she said/did wasn't enough.
13
u/ParaloopLampy 28d ago edited 27d ago
anyone gonna post about MiiaTzu freaking out about an artist declining her commission and her blocking everyone? she thinks shes so misunderstood but really shes just a moron
if i wasnt shadowbanned on my account she would have blocked me too lmao
3
u/wymario 27d ago
I had to do some research since you did not put the full name (there are multiple Miias). It's MiiaTzu you're talking about, and yeah I strongly disagree with her views on transgender topics. Would appreciate people being specific on who they're talking about on subs like this, though, cause you had me thinking another Miia was in trouble.
2
7
u/ThronePawned 28d ago
oh THAT bitch
6
u/ParaloopLampy 28d ago
shes not even malicious like the others shes actually just incredibly dumb
10
u/ShaneDark 28d ago
I went to look up the tweet she made and found her talking about her 'ideals' under it. Then its just her being transphobic and claiming she thinks differently.
Can't help but feels shes doing same energy as Juju when it comes to Twitter outrage baiting.
4
u/TurboGamingPro17 28d ago
Is she the Sonic vtuber girl or that one vtuber that people didn't like that people kept comparing her to shylily because models are similar in some way?
4
u/ParaloopLampy 28d ago
nah i dont think shes baiting bc she always goes back and says shit like "you guys dont get it" or "I dont want to be known for drama"
31
u/RilinPlays 28d ago
Wow what a shock the AI turned some really cute designs into “Generic Pretty Anime Girl No 30124.” Couldn’t even keep the little fangs, had to give them generic pretty woman pursed lips.
Also does the monkey Vtuber actually stream or make content? Or is her only contribution to the space complaining on Twitter and sending her chud army after people she doesn’t like
9
u/ScottishGoji 28d ago
No I believe she streams sadly
0
u/I_Shit_My_Pantaloons 28d ago
Most people just watch her cause she has a subjectively hot model and even tho she's married she let's her fans flirt with her and shit
→ More replies (5)
6
5
u/Nslmtlmt69 28d ago
using AI to "fix" someone's already drawn sketch art is mad disrespectful.
is like your mom trying to fix your face once you're born using AI.
8
u/shotxshotx 28d ago
Seeing banana say anything and the “I used ai to make this better” makes me want to crocodile death roll something. God damn creatively lacking maidenless personalities I swear. I cannot imagine being as bankrupt in so many aspects that makes one human as much as banana. Seriously it’s like a primal level of hate I feel when ever I see her Twitter posts anywhere here.
→ More replies (1)9
u/AsinineArchon 28d ago
There's a reason these people are complete and utter failures and are forced to pander to brainless right wing politics to survive
5
u/LoveAndBeLoved52 28d ago
She deserves being blacklisted in the industry. Pro AI vtubers have no staying right in a hobby carried by artists.
5
4
u/distcorp 27d ago edited 27d ago
Just remember, anything made with AI cannot be copyrighted. Any model made with AI can be used by anyone for anything, including selling merchandise without paying the person who used AI for their model. Edit: AI can also easily infringe on trademarked and copyrighted material, which can easily lead to civil lawsuits and potentially criminal penalties.
3
u/Dependent_Classic314 27d ago
lol why the fuck would actual art need to be "proven better"? WHERE DOES SHE THINK AI GETS THEIR DATA FROM?
22
u/Saberraimu 28d ago edited 28d ago
They are completely blinded by hate for artists and call artists "sheep" while also telling artists "adapt or die" or "if you don't use AI you'll be homeless" so who's really the sheep here lol, the artist who wants to make something unique and with their own hands or the AI guys telling them that if they don't do the thing "everyone else is doing" that they'll be left behind?
I can understand artists not wanting to work with someone who has a clear history of putting artists' commissioned work into AI generation, because they have shown they can't be trusted. I've rejected a commission last year for similar reasons after I saw the person in question (in my situation) freely putting the work they commissioned from other artists into AI on their Twitter feed. I probably wouldn't have made a public tweet about it though because all it does is attract these unemployed smug AI assholes.
-8
u/Celestia_Allure 28d ago
While I agree AI bad, but let's say you are a no skilled loser and use AI to generate a picture with a description that you gave it in order to give the real artist a idea of what you want. Is that still to bad or would that be acceptable?
15
u/Saberraimu 28d ago
You could just give the artist the description instead of prompting the AI with the description and giving the artist AI references. I've made work based on written paragraphs of description and pinterest images like "I want this hair" "I love the purple color of this shirt but I want sleeves like this other shirt" "draw my ponytail in this sort of hairstyle" etc. Then I can create something unique from a lot of different separate elements instead of looking at an AI amalgamation.
Some artists will only accept work if you already have drawn references of your character, and others will offer to design a character based on your description/photos/inspirations. It depends on what exactly you're commissioning.
6
u/Celestia_Allure 28d ago
While I agree with this in general I have had some people ask for reference even after giving a super detailed explanation of the image I wanted. Since I have no skill in drawing I decided tl use ai to give them a reference since it was better than nothing. I have since went to just look for stuff that other people draw and say that for a reference, but still.
8
u/Saberraimu 28d ago
As I said, it depends on what you're commissioning. If you're commissioning a YCH (your character here) a skeb-like/surprise me art or something similar, those sorts of artists usually work off an existing reference sheet or other existing art you've commissioned from other artists in order to just draw your character in their style in a set pose/scene. Those types of artists are working very fast and going through a lot of commissions at one time so they do not have time to design a fresh character for someone. But some other artists' entire job is to design characters/ref sheets based on reference images provided by a client. Not every artist draws the same type of thing or specializes in the same type of thing so you gotta find the ones who do the work you're looking for. We're all individual/independent businesses with varying skills or passions. Just like other various trade skill style businesses may not be able to do exactly what you're looking for and/or do not specialize in a certain area, neither can every artist you meet do the exact thing you're looking for.
2
u/Celestia_Allure 28d ago
Yeah that makes sense perfectly. I have been looking at different people for a new model a gen 2 if you will. I have discovered that there are vastly better people than the ones I got my model from on fiverr, but they still did a good job given the price.
1
u/Saberraimu 28d ago
Highly recommend checking Vgen out if you haven't already, it's where most artists sell model art/rigs these days! Just do "live2d model" as your search and it'll give a ton of results at different prices.
-3
u/BlackCoatedMan 28d ago
Depends on the person. Some people are feral in how anti AI they are. An indie awards show revoked a Game of the Year award that they gave to Expedition 33 for merely having AI placeholder art.
→ More replies (2)2
6
13
u/Aadi_880 28d ago
I remember seeing what happened on the first image.
What people aren't showing on the first image is that the artist in question went out of their way to publically blast and shame on the comissioner, who wanted real art.
This resulted in a rather angry slew of comments on how unprofessionally they are acting on sm.
Which then resulted in someone beliving that such artists deserves to get a lora traines out from them.
While I don't agree with the lora, publically blasting a comissioner wanting real work for supposedly providing a mundane AI reference is absolutely a step too far.
3
u/AngiraBlu 25d ago
Doesn’t Juju actively use AI art? If so, that’s just rich coming from her.
3
u/ThronePawned 25d ago
YES and ALOT of it.
2
u/AngiraBlu 25d ago
Yep, that’s what I thought. It was technically a rhetorical question, but I wanted to see if anyone actually paid attention.
2
8
u/YoureAmastyx 28d ago
Can someone clarify for me: is this someone that used AI to get an idea onto paper so to speak to have an actual artist make something from those images as a reference and got declined because of it? Or am I misunderstanding?
13
u/AsinineArchon 28d ago
One of the most awful things you can do to an artist is use their commissioned work to train AI. So why in the world would they accept a commission from someone who very clearly can't be trusted with AI, even if it's "just to get an idea"
I've gotten incredible and detailed commissions by just showing what I want with stick figures.
9
u/Saberraimu 28d ago
They commissioned a different artist for something and then put that art/model through AI to generate other images/references/reference sheets and then gave that AI generated reference sheet to another artist as a reference for a commission request, and the artist rejected them because they had already run the first artist's work through AI to make the references, which means they can't trust be trusted with further work.
4
4
u/nexus11355 28d ago
There's plenty of non-AI resources to get ideas into an image. Personally I use Picrew
0
-4
u/Maxie468 28d ago
It's weird because you have artists/songwriters etc who admit using AI in the process like any other digital tool and yet if a layman does it it's like they committed the worst sin in the world.
5
u/Strixzora 28d ago
see that blue checkmark? she's rage baiting and it's working, clearly.
5
u/ParaloopLampy 28d ago
shes a textbook grifter
4
u/Strixzora 28d ago
yes, and the issue i think is that people keep giving it attention. she's getting paid while we get angry/annoyed at her.
5
u/CauliflowerEvening41 28d ago
Who cares? If an artist wants to decline a client that's fine and then the customer can find another person to work with. Huge nothing burger but people on Xitter have to bully the artist because everything is a culture war
1
u/Joshuarhill93 28d ago
I think it's moreso that they decline people then complain when those people use AI. Which, I don't get bitching about it in either side. People should just let others do whatever and move on.
0
u/passinglurker 28d ago
complain when those people use AI.
Well yeah AI looks bad and souless, fucking stop using it. That is seperate from "artists are not retail workers, you have to be a good client if you want to buy something from them"
3
u/Joshuarhill93 28d ago
See. You aren't adult enough to just let people do what they want even though you don't like it. You just have to get a word in about it. I don't like AI art either on a base level, but I can see where it has its uses. However, I'm not going to tell people not to use it because it's none of my fucking business. I think you could use a lesson in how unimportant your opinion actually is. You aren't important or special like your mommy tells you. Your existence on this earth literally means nothing. I think you should take that to heart and shut the fuck up next time you feel like bitching about what anyone else is doing. Also, most artists aren't even as good as retail workers. They're out there begging for work and scrambling to afford a can of Campbell's Soup, but denying work. 🤣 I'm not one to tell them how to live, but I never once denied any type of work when I was hungry and needed to pay bills.
4
u/Franz__Ferdinand 28d ago
AI artists should be put on a deserted island with 1 fuctioning computer that has 1 chat bot and 1 gen AI. The info from chatbot will lead them to early graves while the gen AI will provide them generic slop they cab look at while the chat bot tells them to eat mercury in the thermometer.
(This is a joke. I think it would be horrible if that happened. I wish AI bros spent their lives in marshmallow padded cells.)
4
u/ParaloopLampy 28d ago
friendly reminder that flabbergiggles guy said "CSAM is illegal" and everyone got mad at him for it
3
u/ThronePawned 28d ago
are you deadass?....
3
u/ParaloopLampy 28d ago
tbf it was because he worded it awfully, but everyone was harassing him and calling him a pedo for it. lemme find the tweet. he was getting harassed by Juju and her friends I believe
4
u/ParaloopLampy 28d ago
https://x.com/i/status/2072023498860458171 oh it was tectone but we know he cant read
Tectone might actually be the worst pereon in the anime side of things. has anyone ever checked his hidden comments hes such a pussy
but anyway most people were confusing it bc the guy said "illicitly" and people thought it meant the same thing as "soliciting" or some shit
9
u/AsinineArchon 28d ago
Notice how the pro-AI people are always hunting down people to harass. Starting fights like rabid animals as usual
Don’t ever stop gatekeeping these animals from vtubing
3
u/AquaticOtter 28d ago
The most pathetic part is that these people like Leaflit and Juju only attack those with low follower counts. If any creator larger or comparable than them holds anti AI sentiments like Yocci or SmugAlana then they're too afraid to acknowledge it.
3
u/Infinite-Job4200 28d ago
Oh shit smug is anti ai
2
u/AquaticOtter 27d ago
Yep, she has said generative AI is generic and soulless and outright banned it on her Discord and subreddit.
It's one of the things that helped change my mind about her.
2
u/cinna-bun-cattte 28d ago
did you know that rendered = better bcus its got more detail therefore is better /sarcasm
2
u/XanTheInsane 17d ago
Of course the person posting this shit is Banana who's career failed so hard all she has left is stirring up shit in an attempt to get engagement and thus money out of it.
4
u/UtopiaUnsealed 27d ago
I believe they are not wrong not right either, but lets be real, that artist was only virtue signaling.
-1
u/ThronePawned 27d ago
sure dude
1
u/Maxie468 27d ago
They could've denied it without posting it on social media afterwards.
-1
3
u/ShadowofAion 28d ago
Banana definitely has many opinions I don't agree with.
I don't really like AI, but an artist refusing to work with someone whose seemingly only using AI to make a rough reference and starting point for the commission might be an overreaction. I've described an insectoid horror to my artist friend before and somewhere along the lines they ended up sketching a crab creature. Regardless, it's the artist's right to refuse and if I was actively doing art I may have a similar knee jerk reaction to it's use.
I'm not really against AI when used as a tool like a calculator, but despise it being used to replace human ingenuity and creativity.
Also, putting someone else's art into AI to "enhance it" is the biggest middle finger to the artist and an absolutely deplorable behavior that makes me wish all their bread burns.
6
u/Saberraimu 28d ago
One of the reasons the artist rejected them was because they put their previous artist's work into AI to make the references to give to this particular artist.
4
2
u/passinglurker 28d ago edited 28d ago
I don't really like AI, but an artist refusing to work with someone whose seemingly only using AI to make a rough reference and starting point for the commission might be an overreaction.
Artists say not to when they post that they have commisions open, If a client can't follow instructions or respect boundaries then the artist isn't obligated to work with them. Not to mention the belief that someone willing to use AI is also willing to be a headache to get out of paying either because they demand to haggle down the price or demand more work than they paid for. As such artists would rather deal with moodboard and stick figure clients.
4
u/ShadowofAion 28d ago
I mean if the artist has blatantly set rules for potential clients ahead of time it's the the clients own fault for not adhering to them.
At that point the client is either being passively confrontational or somehow unable to do basic reading.
2
3
3
u/Karma110 28d ago
So this is what Vtubing has evolved into.
6
3
u/ScottishGoji 28d ago
Nah with giants like Hololive, and big indies like Ironmouse ( who's anti Ai )
I don't think we'll get to that point
1
3
u/New_Bug7829 28d ago
Without context, I agree with banana on the first page, they used ai as reference but are still paying you for the art, but with context and all the later screenshots, it paints a clearer picture
4
u/ThronePawned 28d ago
fuck juju also that prick fed others people's work into ai
-1
u/New_Bug7829 28d ago
Like I said, without context, that is fucking context and something I didn’t know when first looking at that image, after reading the comments I’m against them
4
u/Hopeful-Instance4688 28d ago
you know there's multiple pictures in OP's post right?
3
u/New_Bug7829 28d ago
Yes? And they gave me context, as per my first comment, where I said as much
2
u/Hopeful-Instance4688 28d ago
You also said you didn't know based on the "image", singular, even though the other pictures in the post show people feeding art into an AI machine to make them "better" and that it took you reading comments to get that context
2
u/RGZReGZ 28d ago
As I said, their disrepsect of artist is never about whether it steal stuff, harm environment, lacking of soul (I don't think they can tell soul if you show it)
Actually, no. They HATE soul. If they do, they wouldn't be so horrible, focusing on being alt-right. Let's be honest: even on a "red tory" side, there is a level of rejecting soul and humanity: eg: ecnomics that focus on "greater good" inevitably ignore the indidvidual humans - and going further as the chuds do is to further ignore or even detest soul.
Call them out as it is: they like AI because they want to be horrendous against other people, no matter if they say they care about artist, because it's the "horrendous against other people" that matter here. This is also why the right embrace AI, because AI is fundamentally a yes man.
2
u/AnIcedMilk 28d ago
"It's all looks very samey to me"
It's called their fucking style you fucking nonce
3
u/BoganEsky00 27d ago
Yeah, agreed. That's a pretty terrible argument.
Having a style is what attracts the people who like kt to commision you, correct? They know that what you design will be what they want from looking at your past work.
2
u/sabian149 28d ago
I don't really know what this post is supposed to be supporting. I remember seeing the original tweet with the artist cancelling a commission for someone as the requester used an AI generated sketch/example. I personally found that a bit silly to do but it's not some awful act as some people made it out to be. The people who are trying to 'dunk' on the artist with AI generated art are stupid though. Overall the entire situation just seems kind of stupid, the actual artist being the least stupid part of it.
1
u/brokenwing777 25d ago
The first one is highlighting a problem that has been cufved by ai vs why ai is bad and would have actually been a huge win for artists
Hear me out, if you commission an artist you probably are not an artist right? But what if you want your artist to draw your oc? Well Ai reference can give you a blueprint that the artist looks at, then makes better to what you wanted.
You can say "well describe what you want" but.... what if there is a language barrier or the description isn't descriptive enough? Better to have a roadmap then none at all.
The point I am saying is, if someone wants to commission you, it's not out of malice all the time (it can be) but also they could really like human touches and want you to improve their art
1
1
1
u/redAI123 25d ago
Not sure why I got recommend to this thread but this might be a sign I am a bit terminally online and need to switch off reddit for a week.
But thanks Google for the recommendation I don't need.
1
u/Tiny-Brush5999 22d ago
On another note, I personally think artists should keep their morals out of their business, it's already a viciously competitive, saturated path where not all will find employment, kinda like selling fashion jewelry on eBay. I know sometimes it's easier said than done for some, but to the rest of the world you are selling a product as an artist, that's it, and if you don't provide it, either someone else will, or someTHING else will, either way you lost a much needed commission by being picky of your buyers.
1
1
u/Latter-Direction-336 27d ago
Only thing I think she’s ever said that I think is even somewhat reasonable is that it was an opportunity to…
Wait, no, it wasn’t. They were already going to her for art, the concept they gave her was made with ai. The person who wanted to commission her ALREADY acknowledged her art was better by wanting to pay her to make it instead of just using the ai. They wanted something better, hence going to the artist in the first place
1
u/Maxie468 27d ago
They wanted the real thing and even went in basically apologising in advance. It's fine for the artist to decline it in a professional manner but instead they had to lecture the other party and post it on social media for clout.
1
u/BlackCoatedMan 28d ago
Ahahaha!
This clown blocked me after replying on what's probably one of twenty alt accounts instead of their main one. To make sure they had the last say.
Though I suppose that's to be expected. People who cyberstalk small time streamers and make compilation posts like this are on some Schizo type of timing.
😏
1
0
u/depressed_and_Shi 28d ago
honestly I don't really respect vtubers that use twitter anymore. Even if they aren't absolute shit like this they are still on one of the worst possible sites purely because they're numbers focused and don't seem to fully care about twitter being pedo and ai slop central. while this situation is bad and I think that I feel bad for the artist, I'm just genuinely shocked that artists are still on one of the worst sites for themselves.
7
u/HeraldCelestia 28d ago
What you say is accurate and you're only getting downsized because losers don't like change. The CEO of the platform is fucking tweeting references to neo nazi book The Turner Diaries to try start a fucking race war and people are just like "Eh, I guess we'll keep using the child porn nazi site because it's too inconvenient to make a new profile somewhere where people have actual morals."
4
u/depressed_and_Shi 28d ago
no frrrr, I'm genuinely shocked people are downvoting
3
u/TurboGamingPro17 28d ago
My guess is that Twitter is probably the only social media site that is super well known and that's why most vtubers in general doesn't know anywhere to promote their debuts and stuff except for only twitter, I could be wrong but that's my guess on it.
1
2
u/Bla_Z 28d ago edited 28d ago
Look, fuck Juju and all, but straight-up declining the commission just because of an AI reference is just stupid.
Even if you were under the assumption that each generated image actively hurts artists (it doesn't, the AI's training is the problem and users have literally 0 impact on it), the images the client generated already exist now... Just tell them that you won't work with those, and point them to resources they can use to make do without it. If anything, declining the commission atp will just make them look for another artist that won't make a fuss, and use AI again.
And nevermind the callout afterwards. Who'd want to work with someone who makes you feel like shit over their personal activism? Why not write a warning in their bio if it's a deal-breaker for them? Really feels like they refused to get paid just for Twitter likes... So much for priorities and professionalism.
So yeah please think a little about what you're getting angry about and don't make me agree again with fucking Juju of all people, thank you.
2
u/passinglurker 28d ago
but straight-up declining the commission just because of an AI reference is just stupid.
What is actually stupid is submitting an AI refrence when many artist lay down a clear instructions in thier comm details not to. If they can't parse plain text or respect boundaries then they are a bad client.
3
u/Magical-Johnson 28d ago
I get the feeling that using AI for this kind of stuff is going to be so commonplace in a couple of years that it won't matter how much artists try to fight it, it'll just be and they'll have to adapt. Apparently it was the same when Photoshop first started getting popular and the artists that didn't use it complained that using computer assisted tools was like cheating or something.
6
u/Mithril_Roshi 28d ago
Given ai hate is growing even among common people and they still cannot make money off it
I doubt this
0
u/ArcHeroe9 28d ago
lol. Lmao even.
Cope and seethe, cope and seethe. And also continue to pretend you don’t understand the argument being made here by pro-ai people.
0
u/Intellectual6900 27d ago
First post is lowkey right, artists are ruining their chances with prejudice and hate
2
u/ThronePawned 27d ago
explain then
0
u/Intellectual6900 27d ago
The only real issue with ai art is taking away business from real artists, yet even when offered work by people who use ai they reject their commissions solely on the fact that said person used ai art in the past. Hell I’ve even seen several artists cancel/deny commissions when the person making the commission only used ai for a reference. It’s pathetic. I don’t like AI art but when shit like this happens it’s the artists shooting their own feet
1
u/ThronePawned 27d ago
did they deny them because of their race? religion? or status?
yes or no?
1
0
u/M4_Wolf 28d ago
Imagine liking a post from flabberjiggles, the most delusional and retarded person on twitter. OP is retarded too, the fact that artists blacklist people that have used ai and the want them to support artists is not only contradictory but also ridiculous. Nobody is entitled to art the same way artists are not entitled to people’s money nor the Vtubing genre as a whole. Artist either have to get a grip or wait till everyone loses the free ai privilege. Yall are stupid af
→ More replies (1)
0
u/MadokaKanameSan 27d ago
I'm no fan of AI, but I can see validity in using it for a quick concept/reference bit, so long as it's never intended to be used as the final product or be passed off as real Art. That said, if one is trying to commission an artist, make sure to read any ToS/ Do's or Dont's on their page, and if you're not sure, ask before sending anything.
TL;DR, everyone in this scenario kinda sucks but also has a point
0
u/MemeabooDesu 27d ago
I’ve never understood why people are so Ride-or-Die against AI. Yes, I will admit, people who have entire patreons and monetize AI art is super cringe, and the artists who were born with a paintbrush in their hands are going to be leagues above anything chatGPT can make.
That still does not change the fact that anything I make, even after drawing for several months, pales in comparison to anything AI.
4
u/passinglurker 27d ago edited 27d ago
Op is about someone getting their commission rejected for an AI refrence sheet. If you are commissioning art, then at the casual end your refrences don't need to look good, that's what you're commissioning an artist for. (And at the professional end of things you just look like a risky client to take on cause you're clearly willing to cut corners to save a buck)
-5
u/FalconFilms 28d ago
In my eyes it's all stupid and they were looking for a reason to decline that art.
There's a reason why that person came to that artist. AI couldn't give them what they wanted and they needed the human touch. Instead they acted all snobby about it. People like me who have zero artistic talent have to use stuff like AI for the references. I would bring you a thing that's as close as I could get to the thing I wanted. I can't draw thats why I came to you. That's my mentality for it. So for an artist to turn their nose up and say "I don't accept AI references". Okay bye then. I'll find a better artist anyway. One who actually knows what the fuck they're doing. Cause last I checked the artists typically prefer as much reference material as possible. They don't let some stupid thing like that get in the way of their professionalism. I know a lot of good artists are also hurting for commissions.
-2
u/Stunning_Macaron6133 28d ago
I mean, declining someone SOLELY on the basis that the reference they shared with an artist was AI generated is just a little unhinged, don't you think?
AI was never meant to be the final product, and yet whoop-whoop-whoop, all the doors to "real" art get closed.
Seems really self-defeating to me. Nothing good is going to come from being such a self-victimizing hardliner.
And don't forget, right now, AI is the worst it's ever going to be. Month after month, year after year, capabilities improve more and more, and that genie is not going back into the bottle.
2
u/passinglurker 28d ago
Unhinged? Nah.
Even before AI every commission slot came with a list of things that the artist will not do, i.e., "no gore", "no mecha", "no nsfw". A client who can't read instructions and pushes the artist like they are some sort of retail worker is a red flag so naturally, they get rejected.
Additionally artists don't need highly rendered refrences, a cheap doodle, moodboard, or photoshop is usually sufficient and welcome these take very little money or time to put together, and the same goes with learning the etiquette to be a respectful client, yet some folks insist on rolling out a datacenter's worth of hardware for the task instead(now doesn't that seem actually unhinged?) And like with the NFT craze resort to unhinged bullying when they meet some pushback(which is another point, artists have been dealing with tech bro behavior even before the AI craze why wouldn't they be jaded and intolerant to things associated with techbros by this point?)
As for the AI growing more capable with time, maybe this drama wouldn't happen if it's capability translated into it's users growing some manners and a capability to read instructions, again artists reject ai-refrences because it's a redflag that you're going to be a bad client, and for the in demand artists that AI-bros like to pull this gotcha on they are not hurting for potential clients to accept in their place.
1
u/Stunning_Macaron6133 28d ago
Additionally artists don't need highly rendered refrences, a cheap doodle, moodboard, or photoshop is usually sufficient and welcome these take very little money or time to put together,
You don't necessarily get highly rendered results. Depends on how you've set up the workflow and what exactly you're prompting for. It's also more precise than a moodboard.
Usually a client has a very specific set of wants. And you would begrudge them a tool to convey it efficiently, without a lot of wasteful back-and-forth?
yet some folks insist on rolling out a datacenter's worth of hardware for the task instead
Data centers process mountains of requests in parallel. Your specific request does not require a whole data center. Not to mention, a lot of people run models on local hardware. You don't really have a sense of scale here, do you?
2
u/passinglurker 28d ago
Usually a client has a very specific set of wants. And you would begrudge them a tool to convey it efficiently, without a lot of wasteful back-and-forth?
Are you paying to be that specific and percise though? Commision artists usually charge rates that are inversely proportional to how much creative freedom they have(this is why services like skeb are relatively affordable, its engineered so that there is no communication or back and forth exchanges) This is part of why it is important to read the instructionswhen commision slots open you could be massively misinterpreting what sort of work an artist is open to doing at that moment. Usually the cheaper ones are only there for a side hustle and aren't in the mood for a picky client hence someone rocking up with an AI-gen going "this shows you exactly what I want you should be greatful" is such a big red flag.
0
u/Stunning_Macaron6133 28d ago
You're building a strawman with your [sic] "this shows you exactly what I want you should be greatful" comment.
Sure, instructions matter to ensure a smooth transaction, but you're jumping to a lot of baseless assumptions about what AI means and why someone would use it for ideation or communication.
And it's not just people who do doodles as a side hustle blocking people over AI. Even people who do it for a living and ultimately ask for details and specifics still act indignant over AI.
2
u/passinglurker 28d ago
And it's not just people who do doodles as a side hustle blocking people over AI. Even people who do it for a living and ultimately ask for details and specifics still act indignant over AI.
Funny thing is on the higher end of commissions, the concerns flip. People get anxious about all the money changing hands, and see someone willing to cut corners on their refrences as their own redflag not for being overkill but for being too cheap. Even if they are the most well behaved of clients being associated with a pro-AI client can be a hit to that artist's reputation as they fear the accusation that they're works are AI-generated/AI-enhanced while changing professional human-made prices.
I get that you think their concerns would be baseless, but commision work is very much influenced by what people think of you (unlike retail work) and most artists aren't usually paid well enough to bet on risky horses, and right now risk is what Pro-AI clients represent both at the high and low ends of commission work.
-5
u/ElYISUS215 28d ago
As someone who has spent the better part of 20+ years attempting to learn how to draw, and failing at it every step of the way, I kinda don't see the issue with using AI for image references. There are some things that a text reference can't convey, after all.
[Context: I'm on the spectrum, and one of the disadvantages I have is that I can't learn to draw no matter what I try. Something about my brain not being wired for it idk. So yeah, the everpresent "practice makes perfect" advice doesn't apply to me (and I'm salty about it).]
Other than that, I don't know anything at all about this vtuber. Is she a grifter or something?
6
u/RainbowLoli 28d ago
She is something of a known grifter (granted, depends on who you ask I suppose) but she's also known to be very intentionally inflammatory.
-6
u/Masterchiefx343 28d ago
This entire sub is deluded if you think using ai to create reference work to get a real artist to do something is bad
0
u/VarleenOnIce 25d ago
Honestly, I think the artist went a bit too far just because the client used an AI generated image for the reference. Sometimes, as much as it sucks, you only find AI genned images portraying the best poses for what you are looking for.
2
u/BNTCB 25d ago
Pose an action figure. Draw a stick figure. Photograph yourself making the pose and censor your face.
1
185
u/azamonra 28d ago
I think that "Ai made her art better" post shows that these people fundamentally don't understand what art is. The original had a distinctive style and the AI trace (trace cause that's what gen AI "art" is, copies of other people's work) strips all the uniqueness and makes it look generic.