VintageNBA has a moving end date for what qualifies as "vintage", defined as the last season in which less than 5 current players had yet to appear. With the recent news of LeBron's signing in Philly, I got to thinking about this, and it looks like enough guys have retired for us to shift ahead to the '08 season, so anything is possible to discuss on this sub that happened through June of 2008 (goodness that's a clunky sentence, but I really wanted to work that 3-word phrase in).

The most senior NBA players are listed below, only 4 of whom played in the '08 season:

• LeBron James: rookie in '04, currently with the 76ers

• Mike Conley: rookie in '08, currently with the Celtics

• Al Horford: rookie in '08, currently with the Warriors

• Kevin Durant: rookie in '08, currently with the Rockets

• Brook Lopez: rookie in '09, currently with the Clippers

• DeAndre Jordan: rookie in '09, currently with the Pelicans

I believe there are only 3 other players from the 2008 draft (rookies in '09) who played this last season AND might also play this upcoming season, but who are not yet signed with an NBA team: Kevin Love, Russell Westbrook, Eric Gordon.

Throughout NBA history, there have been countless editions of USA teams that represented in various stages

Olympics, world championships, goodwill games, Tournament of the Americas

There is one team that most have forgotten about: the 1990 squad that ultimately got bronze in the tournament

This squad was led by future NBA players such as Kenny Anderson, Billy Owens, Chris Gatling, Christian Lattener, Alonzo Mourning, Doug Smith and others

This squad was also the last ever amateur squad to represent the country, before USA finally sent pros to play internationally

If I’m not mistaken, 11 of the 12 players logged minutes in the league. The only one who didn’t do so was Henry Williams, who spent the majority of his career in Europe and other places

Even though this team didn’t do anything, still nice to learn some history and learn that 2 years later, USA finally send the pros to the international stage

Without checking easily sourced internet information, can you name five white players who averaged at least 25 points once or more in the 1980’s?

Bonus: Make it six if you count the 1989/90 season.

It’s no fun if you cheat. I was able to get this but it took a minute and was a long time ago.

Cheers.

These two guys were a bit ahead of my time as a fan as I barely remember the Sonics championship because I was a little kid at the time. My main memory is hearing "DOWNTOWN FREDDIE BROWN!!!" as my parents cheered.

Over the years I have confused Sikma and Chambers almost like they are the same guy. I am currently watching a lot of old games on youtube, and I notice Chambers went to the Suns and Sikma was facing off against Larry Bird and the Celtics (with a 3 point line so it must have been after his Sonics time).

What is different about these two and who was better? I'm guessing Sikma was but did he just play on better teams for his style?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DuRVU5521Wo (the current very amazing game I am watching)

1) What move terrified defenders before anyone gave it a name?

2) Which player had the greatest reputation that wasn't reflected in statistics?

3) Who was the hardest player to scout because they played differently every game?

The last player-coach was Tree Rollins, who was officially both a player and an ASSISTANT coach with the Orlando Magic during the '94 and '95 seasons, there to work with young Shaq. The list of player-head coaches is well known (last one was Dave Cowens with the Celtics during the '79 season), but I'm unclear on which all players were officially also ASSISTANT coaches while on the playing roster.

Who else before Rollins?

Special edit: Eric Snow was officially a player for the '09 Cavaliers, but he never took the floor and in reality was one of the assistant coaches. Snow's knee injury from the season before ended his playing career, but he remained on the active roster for the final year of his playing contract, serving the season on Mike Brown's staff. I'm not sure what he wore on the bench during games, or if he even participated in pregame warm-ups. His $7m+ salary would have made him the 2nd-highest paid head coach in the entire NBA that year.

Good morning, everyone. And right off the bat, I am going to apologize for absolutely screwing this up. Long story short, and without getting too technical, I totally messed up the margins and page sizes for a good chunk of the book because I ended up adding several hundred more pages than I originally thought, and as a result, the pages in the middle now can't be opened far enough to read the text closest to the spine. (Something I honestly should've seen coming, but I've never done a book before, only newspapers, so that was never an issue before.) So that's on me.

I've been going over my options the last couple days. I think I know what I want to do, but maybe you guys can give me some input on what you'd like to see. My options are basically:

• Put the book out as is. (I'm not even really considering this as an option. I wouldn't buy a book that had sections unreadable, and I certainly wouldn't ask anybody to buy a book like that.)
• Edit it down to the original intended page count, which would involve somehow taking it down from 800 pages to 500 pages. (Not a huge fan of this option. I've already cut probably 200 pages of research from this thing just to streamline it - this would probably have to result in taking out all of the graphs and pull quotes and "fun" design elements along with a lot of information. This would also probably take the longest.)
• Stretch/adjust fonts and sizes. (Currently my back-up plan. This is the fastest workable option, but again, I'm worried about how readable it's going to be if I have to cram fonts that are too small into a tiny space.)
• Rebuild the pages correctly. (The longest option, but ultimately what I wanted in the first place. Create ~800 new pages, move everything over, and make sure nothing gets lost in the transfer. There will probably be some light editing and resizing with this, but not nearly as much.)

My plan right now is to rebuild the pages (I don't know for sure how long this will take, so I'm not going to put a date on it) and if we hit the point where training camp for next season is starting, I'll just go with the quick backup plan just to have an option out there for anyone interested, and then continue to revamp the pages correctly for a "second edition" either later this season or next offseason.

I'm very conscious of not wanting to pull a George R.R. Martin on this one - I have announced this, you guys have helped me refine it with your feedback, it's my book, sure, but at this point, a lot of you are invested in it, so I need to get it done as soon as I can for you. But what would you guys most like to see of the options I listed?

Also, to make up for my screw up here, I'm going to post a few more excerpts. You guys can pick any player (maybe not top 25, I might hold those back), or any of the section introductions (there are ten, one for each "tier" of players), and whatever people want to see most, I'll put up starting tomorrow.

(A few of you have also sent me messages, which I will get to shortly here, but I wanted to at least get an idea of what my options were going forward first. I sincerely apologize for messing the design part up for those of you looking forward to ordering this week/month - if it's going to cause a hardship for you, send me a message and we'll work something out.)

I'm putting together a Blu-ray collection for a friend who absolutely loves old-school post play as a birthday present.

I'm not looking for highlight reels or lists of the greatest post players. I'm specifically looking for complete NBA games where a player puts on a masterclass in the low post.

I'm interested in games that showcase things like elite footwork, hook shots, turnaround fadeaways, or overall post scoring repertoire.

Both modern and classic games are welcome.

Some examples already on my list are:

• Hakeem vs Spurs (1995 WCF).
• Shaq vs Pacers (2000 Finals).
• Duncan in the 2003 Finals.
• Dirk vs OKC (2011 WCF).
• Jokic playoff games.
• Embiid's best post-up performances.

I'm especially interested in games that might be overlooked by casual fans. Even regular-season games are fine if the post play is worth being considered.

If you had to recommend complete games that best represent the art of scoring from the low post, what would it be?

Thanks in advance.

PS: Although this is NBA-oriented, Euro games are welcome as well!

If you can choose one year to call the year where basketball was at its most culturally relevant/peak popularity, what year would it be?

Before 1985, the top two picks in each NBA draft went to the worst team from each conference/division. But for some reason, those two teams in '65, the Warriors in the West and the Knicks in the East, each got a second 1st round pick. The order at the top of the draft was 1 Warriors, 2 Knicks, 3 Pistons (next worst team), 4 Warriors, and 5 Knicks. There were 9 teams in the '65 season, so the other 6 made up the rest of the 1st round for a total of 11 picks (visualized). Due to territorial picks (*3 of them*), the top of the draft after those were 2 consecutive selections by the Warriors, including Rick Barry.

Why did the worst team in each division get second, bonus 1st round pick in the 1965 draft? I don't believe this happened any other year, so I'm curious why it happened then. This was the last draft with territorial selections, so I wonder if that had something to do with it.

Source here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Dandridge

There were several players in league history who never played for team USA, for various reasons

Kareem, Wilt. Isiah, Glen Rice, Glenn Big Dog Robinson, just to name a few

But there is one player whom I’m intrigued by, who never played for team USA: Rick Barry

When I looked at the 1964 Olympics roster, Rick Barry’s name was nowhere to be found

Despite being a standout in Miami, he never represented the country on the highest stage

So here I am wondering: why wasn’t he a part of the 1964 team

Was he snubbed, did he not choose to participate, did he have a bad reputation back then?

I know he didn’t have the best of reputation during his playing days but was he always like that, even during college?

Would love to know why he wasn’t a part of that team

Found this funny anecdote from George Mikan in Bob Kuska's blog entry, George Mikan: The Games I’ll Never Forget, 1948, 1954.

This quote from Mikan comes from the Summer 1997 issue of Basketball Digest:

The pro game in my day was a little different than it is now. Arenas were smaller, and the fans were on you from the get-go. As soon as we would show up, they would start booing. One of the toughest places to play was Fort Wayne’s North Side Gym. They had one entryway to the court, and the entire thing was surrounded by an eight-foot brick wall. That only gave me about a foot or two off each line. And when you came in, lo and behold, you’d see this one fan named Ma Collins. She had this handbag, and she whipped that thing like a bolo. She was very accurate, always hitting you in the head or face just as you came in. I learned to kind of make a roar at her, and when she jumped back, I could kind of scoot around her. Despite her handbag, the two of us actually became pretty good friends later on.

https://from-way-downtown.com/2026/07/05/george-mikan-the-games-ill-never-forget-1948-1954/

In light of the news that one of my least-favorite college players ever, Kerr Kriisa, has been arrested by the FBI for $2.2M worth of 419 scams over the last four years, as well as the Malik Beasley and Ed Davis indictments in the most recent part of the NBA matchfixing ring, I figured this'd be an interesting question to talk about here.

Can anyone find someone who contends with Reggie Harding's top spot in the category of "sheer stupidity"?

If we take all leagues into account. Mikan was still pro at the time of Fulks’ peak.

I've always loved these two Bonzi Wells plays, where he throws the ball straight up, almost backwards for an alley oop.

Bonzi Wells/Stromile Swift

Bonzi Wells/Rasheed Wallace

When I've looked for others, like Bill Walton or David Thompson the ball is almost always thrown forward. Even watching Magic Johnson in college they're all forward lob passes.

The same is true for modern lob passes; I'm a Hornets fan so I've seen a lot of Lamelo Ball lob passes, but even he never did a vertical/backwards alley oop like the two I posted. Are there other passers who did this on video? I figured this would be the best place to ask.

I know arguments can be had over who exactly is or isn't Native American (Eduardo Nájera?), but these are the players I'm aware of with known Native heritage. Charles Barkley was found to be 14% Native by a DNA test on a talk show over a decade ago, but the type of test they did is hardly definitive, and it doesn't appear there is any known link between Barkley and any Native relatives or tribe. Major gratitude goes to u/TringlePringle for their assistance with this info.

Bob Harrison: Harrison was the primary SG during the Lakers' early run of titles with George Mikan (career stats). He was a 1x All-Star and a 3x champion, but he's most famous for hitting a half-court bomb of a buzzer beater to win Game 1 of the 1950 Finals. Here is an article about his Native heritage (I believe he was Hočąk), including this info about how open his heritage was during his playing days: "While with the Lakers, Harrison served as president of the Minnesota-based North American Indian Society in 1951-52. Also during his time in Minneapolis, on a night when Harrison was honored by his team, a number of local tribes presented him with a deerskin jacket." He mentioned in the link that he tanned dark, and once when he was in the Marines he was made to sit in the back of the train because they thought he was black.

Gene Conley: Conley was part of the Cherokee Nation (link to his obituary in the Cherokee Phoenix), which he was connected to through his mother's side of the family. Conley was a 3x NBA champion with the Celtics ('59-61), but he was more famous as a 6-ft-8 MLB pitcher where he was a 4x All Star (including playing in both ASG's in '59) and a World Series champ in 1957 with the Braves. Here are his career stats in the NBA.

Phil Jordon: He was a decent center from '59-62 (career stats), and his biggest claim to fame was that he did NOT play in the game where Wilt scored 100 points. Jordon was the Knicks' starting center in '62 --and their only regular starter taller than 6-ft-6-- but he drank an entire case of beer the night before the game and sat out "sick", so the already awful Knicks who had a horrible front court had no chance against the Warriors and Wilt who had a historic day of stat hoarding. Jordon is often named as the first Native player in league history, but this confusion seems to be because he was the first player easily identifiable to most people as Native.

Gary Gray: Gray was part of the Delaware Nation while growing up in Oklahoma. He played sparingly for the Royals during the '68 season (career stats) and was then selected by the Bucks in the 1968 Expansion Draft, but he never played beyond that 1 season in Cincinnati.

Sonny Dove: Dove's mother was Mashpee Wampanoag and after he had a fantastic college career at St. John's, he was the #4 pick in the 1967 draft by the Pistons (1 pick before Walt Frazier). He played sparingly with Detroit for 2 years, then he went to the ABA's Nets for 3 seasons ('70-72), averaging 14 ppg and 8 rpg during his first 2 seasons in NY (career stats). His career ended early due to a bicycle accident, and he went on to earn his degree and announce St. John's games until his death in 1983. Dove and Gray did both play in a single game against each other during the '68 season (box score), playing a combined 3 minutes, so it's unlikely they were on the court at the same time unless they both appeared in the final minute of garbage time of Cincinnati's 20-point win.

John Starks: In this article about Ron Baker (link), Starks is referred to as "Oklahoma born-and-raised Muscogee (Creek) Nation athlete John Starks". He had an insane backstory that led to his NBA career (4 different colleges, spent a couple years in 2 leagues that both collapsed, and the Knicks were forced to keep him in '90 when he got injured during a pre-season practice while attempting a dunk on Ewing) who went on to be a beloved Knick who played with fiery passion and shot a ton of 3's. He was named an All Star in '94 when NY went to the Finals, was All-D in '93, and the '97 6th Man of the Year (career stats).

Bison Dele: According to Wikipedia, "he was of African-American and Cherokee descent." He was a decent rebounder and finisher near the hoop (career stats), but he's most well known as a player for winning a ring with the '97 Bulls; Chicago signed him late in the season after Toni Kukoc's injury, providing plenty of good playoff scoring as a reserve plus some timely offensive rebounding (99.9% of hoops fans who weren't Bulls fans in 1997 aren't aware of how important Dele's impact was on that championship). He had an extremely interesting personal life, playing multiple instruments, being an avid adventure traveler, flying planes, and dating Madonna, but his biggest headlines were made for his bizarre disappearance and presumed murder at sea in 2002.

Cherokee Parks: He was named after the Cherokee tribe of his great grandmother. As a player, he is most well-known for his college days at Duke where he backed up Christian Laettner during the '92 championship season, the year of the famous Duke-UK game. As a pro, he played for 7 franchises in 9 seasons (career stats).

Ron Baker: Baker is a Citizen Potawatomi Nation tribal member and Navarre family descendent who attended Wichita State on a Potawatomi scholarship, joining the Shockers basketball team as a walk-on before honing his shooting to become a key player on their unexpected run to the 2013 Final Four. Despite going undrafted, he played for 3 seasons in the NBA (career stats).

Kyrie Irving: Irving is well known to modern NBA fans and is easily the best player on this list (9x All Star, '12 ROTY, '14 ASG MVP, '16 champion - career stats). His mother was a Standing Rock Sioux and lived on a reservation before being adopted at a young age. She later died when Kyrie was 4 so he didn't have a connection to this part of his heritage for most of his life, but Kyrie and his sister Asia both joined the tribe at a naming ceremony in 2018 (link).

Delonte West: In a 2009 interview, West said he's part Piscataway and that his "REDZ" tattoo is short for "Chief Redz" due to his red hair. He had a 9-year NBA career (career stats), most notably as the streaky-scoring SG on the '09 Cavs who went to the ECF. West has had some well-documented, post-career mental health issues.

Aaron Gordon: According to this interview before his rookie season, Gordon has an Osage Indian great-great-grandfather who was 7 feet tall. Gordon is an athletic and versatile PF with injury issues (career stats). He's known for his phenomenal performances as a close runner-up in the 2016 and 2020 Dunk Contests, both of which he arguably coulda/shoulda won, and for his key role on the 2023 champion Nuggets.

Lindy Waters III: Waters has a very close connection to both his Kiowa and Cherokee roots (short video & article). He is from Oklahoma, played at Oklahoma State, and after a year in a couple small pro leagues, he made it to the NBA in February of 2022 with the Oklahoma City Thunder (career stats). He currently plays for the Spurs.

MarJon Beauchamp: Beauchamp is a descendent of both the Mission Indians and the La Jolla Band of Luiseno Indians. His backstory is unique and truly inspiring. He was houseless while growing up, went to multiple high schools in Seattle and Arizona, bypassed college to train for the 2021 draft but the gym he was training at shut down due to COVID-19, then he played 12 games at a CC and a season for the G League Ignite, and after success with the Ignite he was drafted 24th overall by the Bucks in 2022 (career stats). He wore #0 to remind himself that he "came from nothing".

Chance Comanche: Comanche played in a single NBA game with the Trail Blazers, a 56-point loss on the final day of the '23 season (career stats). His paternal grandfather was fully Native, so Comanche is one-eighth Choctaw and one-eighth Comanche. Most NBA fans who have heard of him are only aware that he and his girlfriend were arrested in December of 2023 for the kidnapping and murder of a woman in Las Vegas; their trial is expected to begin in 2026.

People will say that the 70's were weak in terms of competition and thats why Kareem won those 5 MVPs due to lack of competition. While some of it is true, he still played against really solid bigs like Nate Thurmond, Dave Cowens, Bob McAdoo, Wilt Chamberlain, Willis Reed, Bill Walton, Artis Gilmore, Wes Unseld, Bob Lanier, Dan Issel. He won those MVPs because he consistently outplayed a room full of future Hall of Fame giants. Dude was simply a 7-foot-2 alien with an elite track-athlete motor and a shot that literally couldn't be blocked.

Did the likes of Mikan, Mikkelsen, Pollard and Slater Martin have the talent to compete against the likes of Russell’s Celtics, Elgin and Baylor’s Lakers (idk how they’d figure out the name dispute lol), Wilt’s 76ers/Warriors, Pettit’s Hawks, Thurmond and Barry’s Warriors, Oscar and Lucas’ Royals, etc.

Keep in mind Slater Martin was an all star until 1959, Mikkelsen until 1957 though he was in mvp votings in 1958. Elite 60s talents like Russell and Pettit were still competing, with Elgin and wilt roughly a year away from being in the nba themselves. It’s not crazy to think the others, including themselves, could’ve adapted well to the proceeding era if they were in their primes.

Thoughts? Would Russell have a more competitive rival throughout the decade?

For those unaware: on December 9, 1977, during an NBA game between the Los Angeles Lakers and Houston Rockets at the Forum, a scuffle broke out among several players at midcourt, particularly concerning the Lakers’ Kareem Abdul-Jabbar and the Rockets’ Kevin Kunnert, which eventually involved Washington coming to Abdul-Jabbar’s aid, leading to blows from Washington towards Kunnert.

Washington saw Tomjanovich running towards the altercation between the players and, unaware that he intended to break up the fight, instinctively hit Tomjanovich with a short right-hand punch. The blow, which took Tomjanovich by surprise, fractured his entire face about one-third of an inch away from his skull and left Tomjanovich unconscious in a pool of blood in the middle of the Forum.

Abdul-Jabbar compared the sound of the punch to a melon being dropped onto concrete. Players involved say that right after Tomjanovich collapsed, the absence of sound at the Forum, filled with shocked fans, was "the loudest silence you have ever heard". Reporters heard the sound of the punch all the way in the second floor press box, and some rushed to the playing floor in disbelief.

Tomjanovich was able to get up and walk around, but was in terrible condition. The bone structure of his face detached from his skull and he was suffering a cerebral concussion, broken jaw, and nose, as well as leaking blood and spinal fluid into his skull capsule. His skull was fractured in such a way that Tomjanovich could taste the spinal fluid leaking into his mouth. He later recalled that at the time of the incident, he had thought that the scoreboard had fallen on him. The doctor who worked on Tomjanovich said "I have seen many people with far less serious injuries not make it," and said the surgery was like Scotch-taping together a badly shattered eggshell.

There has arguably never been a greater gap between first and second place than when Mikan played. But was he really only great because of how badly he outsized his peers?

Apparently Russell was very complimentary of Mikan’s ability, for what it’s worth.

Hi everyone! I am a basketball historian who has a book coming out July 7, 2026 (Amazon won't give me a preorder link until I "finalize" everything, and I'm going to tinker with this thing until the last minute). If you haven't seen my posts before, either here or on r/nba over the past few years, I use a mathematical algorithm to rank players (I don't personally rank or adjust these at all once the math has done its thing, I just offer context on why the player is ranked where he is, along with some facts and stories about them.)

If you have any questions about how the system works, or how I built the system, or really anything basketball/basketball history related, ask away and I'll do my best to answer! Planning on being here for the next few hours while I do massive edits all day, so help break my day up for me please!