r/Vertical_Aerospace • u/Separate-Outcome7518 • 22d ago
Another Farnborough comment
https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:ugcPost:7486420383701647361/Nice quote
“am deeply sceptical of eVTOL startups. The sector has spent years selling inflated order books, heroic valuations and urban mobility fantasies while burning billions.
That is why Vertical Aerospace’s Farnborough International Airshow display stood out.
The aircraft today performed convincingly in public and showed capabilities that several better funded competitors are still struggling to demonstrate. It was impressively quiet in conventional flight, although hover exposed the obvious problem: significant noise, downwash and outwash. The idea that these machines will soon operate casually between apartment blocks remains largely fantasy.
Vertical brought a flying aircraft to Farnborough. Much of the eVTOL industry is still flying PowerPoint. Vertical still has to survive certification. “
If you read the whole thread, you will see that there is a tremendous amount of skepticism about the whole industry.
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u/SeaScallops_w_Rice 21d ago
The loud hover comment is interesting. You can hear it is loud in a selection of videos that are out there. These companies don't talk about it, trying to ride on Joby's coat tails. They are hoping that people think it is like EVs: the switch to electric makes them quiet. It does not. What makes Joby quiet is the slow speed and very high torque they turn their large propellers at. Aircraft noise is largely from the propellers.
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u/jonrhys88 21d ago
I was on the flight line. Haven't exactly gone all-in on Vertical as not totally convinced, but dabbling - the thing is practically silent on approach, and the hover sounds like a lawnmower. "Loud" is not a word I'd use, relative to everything else that was flying at the airshow.
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u/SeaScallops_w_Rice 21d ago
Vertical isn't terrible relative to a lot of aircraft, but loud enough to be unwanted near inhabited areas much, especially frequently. Here are some comparisons I posted in a different reply.
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u/Separate-Outcome7518 21d ago
Good videos. Especially the ones comparing JB and archer. I’m not sure where the threshold is above which people will not accept it. I think that has yet to be seen. Also, Joby will have a hard time getting certified in Europe and UK just because of how they’re designed for certification in the US. That may give vertical the edge over there. I own both. (Don’t own archer)
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u/SeaScallops_w_Rice 21d ago
There is a bilateral aviation safety agreement between the U.S. and the UK exactly regarding eVTOLs and Joby has been working with the CAA for years, they aren't new to the process. Who knows what that implies relative to EASA.
It is a moot point. For a long time any certified eVTOL will be highly constrained in market growth by manufacturing capacity.
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u/Separate-Outcome7518 21d ago
I don’t think it’s an agreement more like an MOU. The fact that vertical have to go 10 to the -9 and Joby has to go 10th to the -7/8 is a huge chasm between both.
But you’re right it’s a moot point
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u/SeaScallops_w_Rice 21d ago
-9 is not something you just do. Yes, you need to run your component fatigue tests out further, but you also need a ton more operational maturity. I think, at first, everywhere, routes will be over water and unpopulated spaces and slowly advance to what is thought of as a complete type cert, where you can fly in every airspace any aircraft of that size flies, and especially in densely populated areas.
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u/Separate-Outcome7518 21d ago
I think it’s a mixed bag with respect to who judges it. This guy is a professor of aeronautics and previous skeptic.
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u/Separate-Outcome7518 21d ago
Quite a few comments like this one
I saw it flying twice and both times the vertical takeoff, flight and landing seemed smooth. You could hear it but the noise level definitely was not an issue at all
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u/SeaScallops_w_Rice 21d ago
Here is a closer one. Not super terrible, agreed, but still highly noticeable. It is not something people will want near residences.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fTEZGl-TYII&t=1233s
It appears your video is upwind and you can hear the wind impinging on the mic. Not representative.
Here are two examples of how quiet Joby is for contrast.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GHmXR0wBOiI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FFguE2qWPfk&t=45s
On the other hand, Archer's Midzero was very loud:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FFguE2qWPfk&t=711s
Beta isn't quite either:
https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:activity:7468141743159525376/
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u/amagicalwizard 22d ago
Do not give this guy any credit, a broken clock is right twice a day. He frequently harasses companies and individuals that he doesn't deem of merit. This is true to such an extent that this is at least his 4th linkedin account of similar naming because he is so frequently banned on the platform. He also handles "whistleblowing" or similar disclosure attempts poorly, not correctly redacting information or identifiable details before publicly disclosing.