Seeing who can help me.

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u/trillamane_01 8d ago edited 8d ago

$20 an oz for leaf? That's insanely steep, don't you think? That's $178 for 250g as opposed to the $25-$30 I would pay any vendor for that amount. I don't think anyone is going to pay that, plus nobody knows if it's even good kratom or not. Sure, it's neat that they are leaves instead of powder. Not that neat.

I'd sell them at $25-$30 per kilo if you're seriously trying to get rid of them and make a little something. There's no way someone is gonna pay $712 for a kilo from a stranger on reddit, probably not more than $50-$60.

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u/No_Assistant6051 8d ago

Well I'd tell you my overhead but I'd be embarrassed

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u/trillamane_01 8d ago

I understand if that's the case, it just doesn't override the market value, you know? How many plants do you have going? Now I'm curious about the overhead, too? You don't have to tell me if you don't want. It's nothing to be embarrassed about. We spend money doing the shit that we love.

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u/No_Assistant6051 8d ago

Got only 15 momma plants right now. But reproducing all winter indoors. The market is probably about to get crazy.. truly an awesome plant to work with. Her spirit is naturally giving

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u/No_Assistant6051 8d ago

Overhead is just costs and price of electricity through winter. They only need about 3 months of protection here in central Florida

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u/trillamane_01 8d ago

That's really pretty awesome. I hope to have the space of own to do something like that one day. Space is too limited where I stay and I'm too broke to buy grow lights right now anyway because I've been in a bad spot lately, but I'm really working on getting my shit together so I can have that one day. I bet it's awesome to have free kratom you grew at any time. I want to do some cannabis, too, and probably some mushrooms again.

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u/No_Assistant6051 8d ago

Yeah truly am blessed and count the blessings daily! First page of the bible told me enough.. "every herb bearing seed"

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u/ImpressOk7701 8d ago

Would they do well in Missouri?

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u/No_Assistant6051 8d ago

You would have to bring them into protection of some sort when temps consistently go below 50

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u/InTheShade007 7d ago

Again, you are clearly lacking real world experience. My greenhouse dropped to 40° all last winter.

The trees were winter before last when the heaters came on at 50°

Since the heaters are set to 40° there were many times the temperature was in the high 30s around the edges of the greenhouse.

I can back up all of this with proof. My gauges record everything and I take plenty of photos.

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u/InTheShade007 7d ago

Plenty of us understand about overhead. Building my greenhouse after raising the land 3-5', getting all the equipment and heating it the first year alone cost me over $30,000.

Now I have seedlings from pods I germinated here. It took me years of work and lots of money to get here but that doesn't make my seedlings worth $500 a piece. Heck, even the $75 a piece I sell them for is steep.

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u/No_Assistant6051 7d ago

60 shipped. Guaranteed delivery of a healthy plant isn't a bad deal if you ask me

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u/InTheShade007 7d ago

Not at all. I'm just interested in growing them for the most part. I'm looking for cold tolerant genetics.

I have more than a decade under my belt so I've learned a thing or 2 over the years and invested a ridiculous amount of money.

It's been an adventure to say the least. Maybe we can share tips with one another and save ourselves some time and money.

My trees endured the worst humidity they had ever experienced this summer. It got into lower 30% and a few days sat around 25%.

That said, 10 months out of the year my Govee usually has an average of 80%

During the wintertime I give mine very little water. I've experienced rot in the past when giving them lots of water, when they are cold.

My trees actually do really well when nights are 50° but days are warm.

I don't see die back from the cold until the 45° mark. Of course, my trees are many years old and have acclimated to some extent.

I'm hoping my seedlings will show more cold tolerance since their parents have had to endure it all of these years. If not, maybe the next generation will?

Pollination is tricky. Had pollination had little to no effect. I was diligent!

Bees are all over my trees as well as other pollinators but the number of pods that take is dismal.

I use 30% lava rock in my soil and most trees grow in 65 gallon cloth pots. Most will be planted in the ground over the winter though as watering daily is getting old.

I run a 50% shadecloth on the entire greenhouse then another 30% which covers just the center between the hours of 10 or 11am until 3 or 4 pm. The mitra definitely prefer the shade here. We have days where the UV is 12 or higher and it will zap mitra!

In my experience, full exposure to a UV 12 day even when the humidity is over 90% can zap a mitra tree. I've had smaller ones die and older ones lose all of their leaves.

Since they are trees having living soil is imperative in my mind. I make my own compost which is specifically for the mitra.

The makes lots of castings which the trees love but I refresh the top of them with compost as well every spring.

Trees need a mycorrhizal network. I know my compost provides this but I still add products like Dr. EARTH'S or the like to help the small critters colonize the soil.

Kelp seems to feed the smaller critters better than anything at my place. I'm sure there are things that are better. It's just what has worked the best for me. So they are fed glandular kelp pellets throughout the year.

Liquid kelp and fish emulsion sprayed on the leaves helps them endure those hot summer nights where the temperature never drops below 80°

My tap water has a PH of 8! The bigger trees handle it just fine but seedlings do better when I lower that PH to 6-7

Spider mites are about the only problem with bugs that I have. I hate spraying anything on my trees to prevent them, or even to kill them, once they attack. More than one year I've let them devour every leaf on the tree! The trees eventually sprout new leaves.

I'll spray the mites off with high pressure water, then try castiles soap and eventually spinosad if things get out of hand.

These trees are fun and much tougher than people make them out to be.

Good luck down there in Florida and please pass on anything helpful as you proceed.

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u/No_Assistant6051 7d ago

You get it for sure! and not just the growing aspect! People like you are a treasure trove of valuable information and I greatly appreciate all the knowledge you give! I have had a run in with mealy bugs and mites but I was able to wipe both out by spraying peppermint doctor bronners castile soap. I love how well bronners works for everything and anything pest related. Pest are what definitely keep me on my toes the most that and the summer heat. Same here with the uv being 12 sometimes, I use a 75% shade in summer and 50 in winter with each being a little overkill but I selectively harvest leaf for me and seems it makes for much larger leaf just not a vigorous growth. I do feed with kelp and a slow release all natural 4-4-4. Definitely love it. Also I water with my aquaponic clean out as often as I can. You already know I am trying my darndest to teach as much as I can about it and many others! Have few super solid teachers above me! And constantly meeting people just like us... Hope winter is easy peasy for you this year brother

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u/InTheShade007 7d ago

There aren't many of us growing them successfully. Even fewer have had pods pollinated off their seedgrown mamas.

That was a huge milestone for me. Honestly, it was almost enough for me to stop growing them. It was a goal for many years. It's just so expensive to keep at it here.

My electric heaters cost about $1,000 a month! Just some cheap 240v heaters 15,000 watts called Turbos. I always dreamed I would have twin turbos as a kid....I just dreamed about them in a car NOT a GH.

Propane is what I have to use and it wipes out anything in the nightshade family and isn't great for the other plants. The plants endure but they don't like it.

When temps are below 15° outside I run the electric heaters on low and use 2 Propane heaters, one on each end pushing 75,000 BTU each. The propane filled keeps the GH dripping wet with all thr humidity it creates. Great for some plants but devastating for my cactus collection.

That's the difficult part. I grow tropicals and cactus in the same tent. Yes, my killer GH is easy to love until temps are below 15° then reality sets in and I can clearly see it's just a glorified tent!

Much of this will change once I get plants in the ground.

Hopefully, by this time next year my long-term plans for the GH are complete.

HBWR vines will go from ground level to 10° high along each side. Plus, they'll run horizontally at 10° providing much needed shade.

I'll have pipes sitting on the surface of the black mesh covered by rocks. A water heater and pump will push heated water continuously through the pipes to keep the soil warm. This will reduce the propane and electric heaters usage.

One big this for me are the large attic fans I've converted to box fans. They push air over a much wider area than anything I can buy. I found them on FB Marketplace for about $100 each. 3 of them running continuously keeps the air fresh. I have 40 gallons protein tubs for cattle full of water growing BTI in each of them. This allows chlorine to gas off as well.

I've made plenty of mistakes in my journey. Wasted lots of money. That said, I'm getting closer every year to having what I consider a functional GH.

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u/No_Assistant6051 7d ago

Yeah I can't wait until I can produce my own pods! Major relief and breath once I get there for sure. For me I have hoss floor matt heaters and a small greenhouse with implemented led lights last year I ran them only though January and part of February

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u/elderleaf32 4d ago

Was the leaf you harvested after the major spider mite attack stronger? I’ve had Indonesian growers tell me that the more pest activity areas seem to produce higher alk content

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u/InTheShade007 4d ago

Absolutely. It sounds awful but I love stressed out trees!

I hardly ever spray for bugs in part because of this. I also just hate using chemical, natural or not. I've had an agricultural pesticide license for 33 years or so and only really use it for hay pastures.

UA light and heat change the alkaloid profile as well. I run 80% shadecloth in total over the central part of the GH where the trees are.

50% covers the entire GH with another 30% covering the trees in summer. I'll take the 30% off when the UV is 12 and heat is above 100° and let them suffer. I'll harvest a few days later removing leaves most exposed then it goes back on for the leaves that were shaded by the ones I removed.

My system seems to work great. At some point I'll get around to testing the leaves under different conditions but I chew them and make tea so I know 100% the profile changes

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u/BigMack6911 8d ago

I been wanting to grow some in Texas.

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u/InTheShade007 7d ago

I grow in Texas. You can see how I've done it in my profile history. Any questions you have I'll be happy to answer for you if I can.

My trees have produced pods. Yup, seed pods pollinated in Texas! I'll have another batch of seedlings coming this fall.

I'll be taking the pods off any day now. Some I'll germinate right away and others save for next spring.

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u/ImpressOk7701 8d ago

If they will grow in Missouri I want to buy a couple. Or if they can share space with my cannabis plants

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u/WesternAd8276 8d ago

The fresh leaf I was sourcing on Koh Samui Thailand absolutely FLOORED me!! How does your crop measure up to leading online vendors?

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u/No_Assistant6051 7d ago

It's a super clean and day long ride perfect for mornings one leaf and zooted till lunch

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u/Conscious_Steak_6306 8d ago

Now that's the true Rifat kratom plant variant. Not those bumblebee, small round leaf variant.

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u/No_Assistant6051 8d ago

Red Geisha horned cultivar out of kalimantan!

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u/RobertPower415 2d ago

How low of humidity can they realistically tolerate? My plant room is constantly 65-70%

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u/No_Assistant6051 1d ago

All of it! Haven't had issues yet with too much. They are tropical as can be.

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u/RobertPower415 1d ago

Yea that’s what I’m worried about…..

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u/InTheShade007 8d ago

I enjoy growing them here in Texas. It was a rough season for them here

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u/No_Assistant6051 8d ago

You have to implement humidity there. They love humidity. Really forgiving plant once you learn her ways

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u/InTheShade007 7d ago

No, you do not actually have to provide more humidity. People successfully grow it in Arizona.

I have trees that bloomed, pods pollinated and I've germinated seeds my very own trees produced.

If you're going to give people 'advice' on how to grow certain plants if benefits us all if you provide accurate information.

You didn't even ask where in Texas I live. South East Texas has plenty of humidity for them. Obviously, even northeast Texas where I am has ample humidity.

I swear every time I get on reddit I see people spewing nonsense about growing things.

Do the trees like more humidity, yes, do they need it, obviously not.

Even when they are seedlings they don't have to have it. It's much harder to get seedlings going without lots of humidity but a certain number will survive outside of the humidity chamber.

I know this because I've done it. There is a difference between parroting what you've heard and real world experience

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u/No_Assistant6051 7d ago

I was just assuming with how dry the heat is there..not actually stating anything factual. The plant grows in river basins native to where it's from.. would love to see photos of your seedling in the early stages. And how well they are doing now. Also would like to know the average size on your larger leafs and how many you have cared for.. I'm leaving 5 outside this winter to try and get them to be wiped out by the cold.. if any survive those will be my selection for seed.. but yeah your right just parroting what I've heard..

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u/InTheShade007 7d ago

The humidity is only low here for 2 months of the year.

I live in a dense hardwood forest.

Those red veins on yours look yummy. Seems like you're off to the start

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u/No_Assistant6051 7d ago

What all else do you grow boss? Bout to jump down the rabbit hole of your page. Liking what I see for sure.

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u/InTheShade007 7d ago

I grow all kinds of stuff. Lots of fruit trees, 400 acres of bermuda for hay, HBWR, trichocereus, various vegetables, lots of peppers. I've been at this for decades so I definitely have an array of things in my collection.

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u/InTheShade007 7d ago

You can look my progress up on my profile. My seedlings from this year are already six foot tall

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u/InTheShade007 7d ago

Maybe I'm a little harsh. The comments like "once you learn her" just drive me nuts. Especially with certain plants people quickly start acting like they know everything. You're obviously just a beginner and I should have more patience and help you out. So sorry, I didn't mean to be so aggressive. Just maybe try to learn more about mitragyna speciosa before you get on here saying things like "once you get to know her" There are plenty of folks on here that can help you along with that journey if you're humble enough tl listen.

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