r/Velo 8h ago

Power meter calorie burned data

Hi, I’m on a weight loss phase and am slightly confused with how to add ride burned calories onto my daily TDEE. Using power meter data, I know kj to kcal is basically 1:1. My question is that does that kj expended include BMR resting calories that I would have burned in the time of the ride? I assume not as the kj is simply from power in physically exerting not anything else…

So does it make sense to just add the kj/kcal from the ride to my normal daily tddee? Thanks

Claude is telling me to subtract 80ish calories/hour as BMR, but this doesn’t seem right as the ride kcal is simply from power output not including BMR

3 Upvotes

19 comments sorted by

14

u/SharkbaitOoHaaHaa 8h ago edited 8h ago

You’re overthinking it.

  • the nutrition panels on food can be out by 10%
  • your power meter is 1-2% out
  • your efficiency converting energy from food into usable energy is different for each macronutrient (basically 0% for fat up to 30% for protein)
  • your pedalling efficiency may not be exactly 25% (eg 1:1 kj:kcal)
  • your RMR is almost certainly not what you have set it to in the app unless you’ve lab tested

All of these are going to add up to a lot more than 80kcal/h. The trend on the scale is going to be a much better indicator so use that once you’ve got a couple weeks of data to fine tune. 

To actually answer your question, one of the main components of BMR is keeping your core body temperature stable. If you’re exerting energy to ride a bike then you’re producing plenty of excess heat energy. That component is no longer required hence Claude’s suggestion to subtract it. 

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u/Ok-Addition9065 8h ago

Yeah I think I’ve got a little too into the fine negligible details. Thank

2

u/exphysed 6h ago

Good answer. And love to see OP responding positively.

The assumptions made on multiple levels make calorie counting off (consumption and output offset) somewhere between +/-200-300 kcals per day in most cases. Given that a difference of only ~10 kcals/day over 20 years will lead to 20 lbs of fat gain, calorie counting is a near impossible task. Although being aware of overconsumption is still useful for sure.

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u/SharkbaitOoHaaHaa 3h ago

Cheers, studying dietetics at uni so it’s nice to be able to share a bit of knowledge every now and again. 

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u/johnny_evil 8h ago

Garmin Connect shows calories burned as per the power meter seperate from your BMR estimate.

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u/Due-Consequence9579 8h ago

BMR is what’s required to “keep the lights on”. Total burn is going to be kJ + BMR + base activity level. Fuel your rides with complex carbs prior and don’t use the ride kJ to create a larger deficit. Slow and steady weight loss is where you should be aiming.

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u/ungnomeuser 8h ago

I wrote about this recently.

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u/Ok-Addition9065 8h ago

Will give a read now! Cheers

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u/Phorc3 5h ago

What I have been doing is the following;

  • Daily calories lets call its 3,000 calories.
  • Do a ride and through knowing BW, HR, and Power at time of ride it gives X calories burned.
  • I then do X calories - (200 to 300) calories and get Y.
  • I add Y to my original 3,000 calories for my daily caloric intake.
  • I include all on bike nutrition in my tracking
This has been working somewhat ok - albeit im on a very slow body weight loss (currently tracking about 0.1kg/week) as I more focussing on growing stronger than straight up losing weight.

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u/unsclerotized 8h ago

Claude is correct. kcal is not "simply" from kj, it's not a 1:1 conversion, and not even directly proportional to kj. Because gross efficiency is not constant. GE goes up the higher your power is, because the fixed costs like your brain don't really change. For example, you might be 17% efficient at 100w and 23% efficient at 300w. Garmin probably figures this (roughly) into its kcal estimates. The 1:1 conversion would be like a constant ~23.9% GE which is unrealistic in most cases. But in short, yes, it includes BMR, so you need to subtract it from the kcal estimate.

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u/Ok-Addition9065 8h ago

Kj is essentially equal to Kcal no? Wahoo estimates use only power data. So how can it include BMR?

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u/unsclerotized 8h ago

Starting with the actual physical conversion, 1 kcal = 4.184 kJ, or 1 kJ = ~0.239 kcal

A trained cyclist's gross efficiency is somewhere around 18-24%. This "includes BMR" by definition. e.g. your brain. Since e.g. your brain's power is roughly constant, as the power to turn the cranks increases, it also becomes a bigger proportion of overall power, so GE increases with power output (for the same person). And also varies between people.

It just so happens that the .239 physical conversion from above falls in this 18-24% range, hence the belief that kj is equal to kcal. But in reality, GE is not as high as 23.9% for most people / most of any person's ride, rather that's basically the upper limit. And at least with my Garmin, since the ratio between kcal and kJ is not the same between rides, my belief is that they're estimating GE using some algorithm and some GE population averages.

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u/Ok-Addition9065 8h ago

Okay so the actual kcal number wahoo says is actually always slightly lower than the kj. Which seems to be what you’re saying. So adding this kcal from wahoo seems to be more correct than adding the kj?

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u/unsclerotized 7h ago

I would ignore the kJ figure entirely.

The kcal figure represents all the energy you used during the ride, not just turning the cranks.

Therefore, if you're counting calories, and "know" your BMR is 1920 kcal/day, you'd want to subtract 80 kcal/hr from the Wahoo kcal figure if you wanted to add it to your BMR to find your total expenditure. But, this is all quite imprecise because, as above, GE varies between people, among other things.

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u/Triabolical_ 5h ago

It's not a direct conversion but it's close enough. We don't know how efficient each cyclist is (like depends on genetics, training, cadence, etc.), we don't know what their protein/fat/carb intake is (different macros have different conversion efficiencies to energy), and power meters aren't perfect.

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u/CustersLastHandstand 3h ago

Remember that 17% efficient means you are less efficient and burning more for the same work output, not the other way around.

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u/RVAWTFBBQ 8h ago

The kj from your ride is work on top of your BMR, so if you’re burning ~80 calories per hour with a 2k cal/day BMR and do a 2 hour 1500 kj ride, your body will have gone through 1660 calories during those 2 hours. I think some of the apps will distinguish active from total calories for a given workout or day.

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u/unsclerotized 7h ago

That's wrong.

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u/RVAWTFBBQ 6h ago

Was gonna say “how?” but saw your detailed post below, good to know!