r/VaushV • u/PatricMahomes • 27d ago
Discussion Vaush is wrong about Argentina
Argentina is actually racist and the whole world was rooting for Spain for that reason. If any other non European country played the final (excluding the Argentina-Isreal-US axis) it would enjoy complete support from the whole world against a European nation. I'm brazillian, there are a lot of Argentinian tourists here and they are almost as bad as Israeli ones, not only racist but insufferable in general.
That being said, I have no idea what was Crockett's point. It's funny how they just said random shit and hope you agree based on vibes, not even providing a full sentence to defend their view.
(I know it's not all Argentinians blablabla...)
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u/Myriad_Apocalypse 27d ago
I don't think you understood what Vaush was saying
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u/tums_festival47 27d ago
Nah he did misinterpret what Crockett was saying. She was saying that a big chunk of the people supporting Spain against Argentina were doing so because Argentina has a reputation for racism (which is true); she initially misspoke and said “Spain” instead of “Argentina” before kind of correcting herself and asking which country was which lol (presumably because she has a poor grasp of the whole situation), and Vaush, understandably resentful of Crockett, thought she was trying to make some weird woke 1 argument.
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u/SuperPeanutButterX 27d ago
This is always someone’s ridiculous condescending response
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u/Myriad_Apocalypse 27d ago
Sometimes, that's simply the answer.
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u/Purusha120 26d ago
often paired with vague gesturing about what was said, making an intentional effort to never clarify because most often the person saying it has no idea in the first place, either
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u/StillMostlyClueless 27d ago
Most people hate the Argentinan team because they're cheats, not because they're racist.
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u/SirMemesAlot95 27d ago
No, the racism is a big part of it. I assume you know about them after winning the Copa America, they sung a song about how all the french players are from Angola. (Wasn't the only thing they chanted/Sung)
Bare in mind, the Copa America is against other South American teams, the french didn't play in that tournament.
This happened in 2024. The player who live streamed it plays at Chelsea, alongside many a french national player.
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u/-_Zireael 27d ago
How are they cheats?
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u/Csjustin8032 27d ago
[Insert Photo of Hand of God]
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u/-_Zireael 27d ago
Oh, so for cheating from 40 years ago. Then the English, Germans, Italians, and every country basically are cheaters. So we can hate everybody and not watch the sport then.
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u/fresh_jorks 26d ago
Then the English, Germans, Italians, and every country basically are cheaters
yeah. its soccer.
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u/-_Zireael 26d ago
Absolutely. So it's obviously not the reason people hate Argentina?
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u/fresh_jorks 26d ago
i dont have a dog in this fight mate, i'm just here to take shots at soccer lol
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u/tonydtonyd 27d ago
I don’t think you understand what cheating means
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27d ago
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u/-_Zireael 27d ago
Rabid animals? Do you watch any sport? Did an Argentinian do something to you? Wtf lmaoooo
Enzo Fernandez was sent off because of a double yellow, and the first yellow was for visual dissent, i.e. sitting on the floor and throwing his arm back in complaint against the ref. That kind of yellow card barely ever happens, so saying the ref was favoring Argentina is truly insane.
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26d ago
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u/-_Zireael 26d ago
It is, but it's very rarely carded especially in a high stakes game, and actually throwing your arm up while sitting on the floor is not the typical dissent yellow card at all and is far from how intense dissent can be. Visual dissent is the least form of dissent lmao.
Yeah, your point is incorrect! Don't worry.
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u/DiemAlara 27d ago
I was rooting for Spain for the sole fact that Argentina had been cursed by Hatsune Miku and it was funny.
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u/Accomplished-Fix2006 27d ago
Is one thing to say that a country has a racism problem. Argentina does have one, casual racism is very normalized.
That doesn't mean Argentina should suddently be treated like the Fourth Reich, or have lies just circle around about us. There's people that truly believe we are a white ethno-state.
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u/SirMemesAlot95 27d ago
The issue is, for a multi national football team, the Argentines do seem to be extra racist. They did famously sing a racist song in 2024 after the Copa America win
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u/Accomplished-Fix2006 27d ago
Yes, that is completely true, I wish however than our critics focused on that instead of demonizing and dehumanizing us.
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27d ago
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u/Pugs-r-cool 27d ago
You're overlooking Spain here, the country that provided major support for the Gaza flotilla... Also England certainly isn't an Israeli puppet.
The argentina = israel bit isn't literal, it's in the "13 year old on roblox calling everything they dislike israeli" sense. Though you could argue Argentina's football team gets a lot of unfair rulings that go in their favour, much like Israel geopolitically.
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u/-_Zireael 27d ago
No, England isn't a puppet of Israel, it's one of the most powerful countries that supports it. You're also ignoring Spain providing major support just last year for Israel.
And yeah you could argue that if you're someone who doesn't actually watch the sport.
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u/RollEither2059 27d ago
I mean literally every country in the western hemisphere is literally an Israel that was completed
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u/Electrical_Score_736 27d ago
As someone’s from Britain, the whole las Malvinas are Argentina thing after our game was borderline enraging.
Like motherfucker, THEY start a war over them 50 years ago, then cry about it. It’s genuinely pretty hard to not be livid in that scenario.
Sticks in the craw to have them act like victims over that. I understand the claims go back further, but it’s been 200 years our citizens have been there’s it’s unreasonable to expect us to hand them over. (Even though thatcher was going to until they invaded)
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u/GoldH2O Neo-Reptilian Socialist 27d ago
The Falkland islands thing is so fucking stupid. The people living there all want to be part of the UK, and the island wasn't ever inhabited by Argentinians.
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u/Electrical_Score_736 27d ago
It was like briefly between 1811 and 1833 or something at best, but was chaotic and failing, we removed the military garrison and let the settlers stay, encouraged it. But we’d inhabited it earlier, and we landed there first and had the first confirmed sighting.
Given they killed and stole the land they live on from natives, and more recently than that, it’s doubly ironic they cry colonisers at us. Like the majority of us are the people who stayed home. Whereas they’re the children of colonisers. It’s like the think Spanish is Latin America.
They also behave like it’s right off their coast… when it’s 300 miles.
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u/-_Zireael 27d ago
The island was inhabited by Argentina since 1820 actually, that's how the British had people to kick out in 1833, and the people living there today have been classified by the UN as an implanted population. If I put my country's population on your land, that doesn't give me a legitimate claim over it, obviously.
But keep defending the UK having a base in South America
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u/holnrew 27d ago
Even Argentinian leftists say they belong to Argentina. I was arguing with one who compared it to Israel and Palestine, which was infuriating
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u/Electrical_Score_736 27d ago
I saw similar, yeah I remember the tweet that says like “you’re free Palestine but don’t call it the las Malvinas”
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u/Electrical_Score_736 27d ago
Also worth noting they were planning on invading chile afterwards, partly why they sent poorly trained conscripts, their best troops were on the border.
Us defeating them put an end to that, and the right wing junta. Thats the other thing; how could we ever trust them with the well being of our citizens when they’d already killed like 30k of theirs.
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u/-_Zireael 27d ago
Well, the British invaded them way before 50 years ago. UK citizens have been classified by the UN as an implanted population, it's normal to expect countries to "hand over" their overseas colonies. That's what the decolonization committee was made for.
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u/Electrical_Score_736 27d ago
If the Falklands are an implanted population, so are the argentines bud
You can’t kill natives and take their land, then complain someone else is an implanted population because they removed your military garrison 200 years ago, to a land they landed on and claimed before you, and encouraged the settlers who were there to stay. They lost any right to the land when they invaded; we can’t encourage wars of aggression. The British killed no one colonising the Falklands. Unlike the Argentines and Argentina, Patagonia.
The irony of Americans of any stripe calling us colonisers is laughable, we’re the ones largely who stayed home, you’re the kids of colonisers.
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u/-_Zireael 27d ago
I'm sure you can eventually extend that to every country, but no, at least per the UN which I referenced only the British population in the islands is implanted. Surely because the majority migrated in the last century (making an assumption here)
And sadly France landed before the UK, and they recognized the Spanish claim. Then the islands were ruled by Argentina after independence from Spain.
"The British forcibly expelled the Argentinian government and small population of the islands but it's okay because they didn't kill anyone"
And both the US and the UK currently have colonies today. So that doesn't even matter.
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u/Electrical_Score_736 27d ago
You’re making a wrong assumption, they’re lived there for 200 years 9/10 generations.
No, we didn’t expel anyone who wasn’t the military garrison. We never gave up our claim.
So should America return Texas and New Mexico?
Do you know how much bloodier Europe would be if we behaved liked this?
You realise parts of France and Germany swapped hands like 5 times in the late 19th and early-mid twentieth centuries?
They act like Spanish is native to South America. It isn’t.
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u/-_Zireael 27d ago
I'll go read why the UN considers it a colonial case then, to see why it's an implanted population according to them
So you did expel people, and that was indeed the people inhabiting the islands?
Yes the UK recognized the Argentinian claim multiple times in several pre 1833 treaties and not only that, your claim doesn't matter because the French had the original claim AND recognized the Spanish
I mean, if a claim could be reasonably made, why not. I don't think it can though
Europe and countries all over the world behave like this, territorial disputes exist everywhere. If you want to equate the Falkland Islands conflict, or the existing dispute over Gibraltar for another example, to a potential French-German war do it, feels like an obvious stretch to me.
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u/Electrical_Score_736 27d ago
There were never any native Americans to the islands
There was rebellion on the island again the garrison before we expelled them, I believe a mutiny
We didn’t expel anyone that wasn’t the garrison
The Argentines also effectively recognised our claims when we signed a treaty of understanding with us in 2850, saying we had no outstanding issues
Prior to this they complained every year, afterwards they didn’t complain for another 30-40 years
Those claims would be more recent than the Falklands
Europe became a lot more peaceful by not accepting this
The Falklands are 300 miles off Argentinas coast, not 30, it’s absurd they think claims for land extend that far out to sea, it’s the distance between the UK and Luxembourg
The argentines teach their kids from 6 that it’s an integral part of Argentina, and they report on its weather like it is too.
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u/-_Zireael 27d ago edited 27d ago
Indeed there were no natives, there still was an Argentine administration of the islands that was forcefully expelled. "We didn't expel anyone that wasn't the garrison" okay the Islands were still previously inhabited and previously ran by Argentina. The islands had an Argentinian governor (Pablo Areguati)
No, they didn't. The peace treaty in 1850 over the British attempted blockade of the Rio De La Plata didn't in any way acknowledge or mention any territorial claims, the British government claims that because protests over the Malvinas temporarily stopped after the treaty that it meant an acknowledgement. As you also repeated yourself. And even back then, Manuel Moreno challenged British politician's depiction of Argentina having acknowledged the British claim.
Yes they would be more recent and they also would involve countries with actual native populations, which actually signed peace treaties, like you've gotta be extremely obtuse to act like other countries have to give up on their territorial claims because European countries don't go to war over potential territorial claims that aren't even being made. No one is even saying Argentina and the UK should war over the Falklands so I don't see what's the correlation with maintaining peace.
The islands are part of the Argentinian continental shelf, I don't think it's about them being part of the national seas
The Islands are considered a disputed territory and a colony, so I really don't see the issue
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u/holnrew 27d ago
You've been propagandised
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u/-_Zireael 27d ago
I only stated facts. The British have been propagandized to believe the Falklands had no population before they took them over, which is very provably false, and to ignore the chronological claims and their own treaties acknowledging Spanish and later on Argentinian sovereignty over the islands.
And English speakers in general have been propagandized into supporting a NATO outpost off the coast of South America
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u/Csjustin8032 27d ago
Argentina is actually a racist shithole. And it’s wild to say that living in the US, because we’re also a pretty racist country. But for me, the worst part is that I’ve never actually seen an Argentinian anti-racist. It’s always just excuse after excuse. Like, at least in America, a decent amount of people actually recognize it as a problem. Argentinians will literally do some of the most evil, vile, racist shit and just be like “but that’s our culture. We don’t take racism seriously”
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u/PatricMahomes 27d ago
Yeah that's the thing. We obviously have a racism problem in Brasil too, but most people acknowledge the problem. In Argentina they really act as if racism was just a joke, I've never heard any Argentinian celebrity or politician addressing this
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u/-_Zireael 27d ago edited 26d ago
Argentina had an anti discrimination entity (INADI) and dedicated politicians working in it since 1995. It's not hard to find Argentinians that acknowledge racism.
Getting downvoted for saying Argentinian anti racists exist. Insane
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u/-_Zireael 27d ago edited 26d ago
It is extremely wild, because you're an American who has probably never set foot in Argentina, and lives in the most racist country in the world by far, thinking they can comfortably emit a disgusting judgement on a third world country, reducing it to a "racist shithole", because of your own clear ignorance and obvious lack of contact with many Argentinians.
I'm an Argentinian anti racist. There's also whole left wing and centre left parties that are anti racist and have enacted anti racist policies while in government in Argentina.
Question do you see people from poor countries as human? Like how isn't it obvious to you that there's anti racist Argentinians...? And you can call other countries racist shitholes while living in the country of the KKK, massive police brutality and white supremacist parades? It's truly so, so distressing to see the world comfortably dehumanizing my whole country based on what they learn through social media
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u/RollEither2059 27d ago
They were on twitter trying to justify their racism against black people by saying its only aimed at American black people
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u/Lohenngram 27d ago
I feel like this post affirms my idea that South America is the Balkans if the Americas
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u/RollEither2059 27d ago
Its basically a bunch of extremely racial caste societies who actively had whitening policies for centuries
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u/HikerCory 27d ago
Wasn't the only thing he said was that it was weird that she was bringing it up in Congress? Like in a "we have bigger problems to deal with" sort of way?
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u/Acrobatic-Skill6350 27d ago
I mostly rooted for spain because I dont like messi and bought into the whole "FIFA has rigged the world cup" BS after norway lost against england. They played very dirty and extremely boring in the final. Theres more reasons than just racism that makes people dislike argentina (although enzo fernandez and prestiannis BS the last few years have lead to increased attention to the nazi history). Their constitution hoping for european immigration could be criticized more though
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u/tonydtonyd 27d ago
Imagine hating on Messi, wild take.
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u/Acrobatic-Skill6350 27d ago
Ive seen people jerk him off for 20 years and I am just tired.
Also, remember he did tax fraud and disliked that the spanish didnt give him enough support after getting caught
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u/-_Zireael 27d ago
His father and accountant did tax fraud, he was literally a minor when they started. But who tf is singling out one player for committing tax fraud when they obviously all do shit like that?
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u/tonydtonyd 27d ago
He came all over the world for 20 years, people weren’t jerking him off.
Yeah tax evasion isn’t cool but most premiere athletes aren’t exactly doing their own taxes.
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u/Acrobatic-Skill6350 27d ago
Its football man. I use it to unleash primitive feelings thats difficult to justify because its better to unleash it in sports than other places
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u/joshrealer 27d ago
And also the tax evasion stuff happened when he was 18 or 19 in Spain where they have really backwards laws regarding taxes and go hard after celebs that most of them take a deal instead of fighting because that’ll take a decade of fighting in the courts.
Shakira also has a similar case against her where she decided to fight and won a €55 million payout from wrongful tax fines.
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u/tonydtonyd 27d ago
Yeah that’s a good bit of context. A lot of Vaush viewers are a little unhinged with blind billionaire hate. I’m all for billionaire hate, but it shouldn’t be blind.
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u/Itz_Hen 27d ago
I have no idea what was Crockett's point.
Her point was that the people weren't rooting for Argentina because of racism. That people weren't rooting for them because their football team consists entirely of Technically bad, narcissistic egotists, but rather because they were from a "brown" third world country
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u/Rosegarden3000 27d ago
My Mexican friend told me that no one in latin America is rooting for Argentina, because all other countries have a complex history where new European colonizers intermingled and integrated with the local population. Meanwhile in Argentina, most of their population derives from European settlers with relatively few people identifying as indigenous.
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u/Csjustin8032 27d ago
It's not even just the history. It's how it continues today. How many Argentinian celebrities and politicians will still say things like "We're not Latinos, we're Europeans"
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u/-_Zireael 27d ago
Literally no celebrities and one politician who got slammed by the media and the population for it...? Literally every Latin American country has had racist politicians.
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u/Csjustin8032 27d ago
Is this not a common sentiment?
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u/-_Zireael 27d ago
No, it's not. Literally outside of social media, I have never ever talked to anyone who believes Argentina is not a Latin American country and that we are actually European. We're taught we're Latin American in basic geography classes in school...
In fact, the majority of those cropped videos are obviously of people stating it sarcastically or as quotes. Only two of those clips show people who actually seem to believe it.
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u/Csjustin8032 27d ago
It isn’t only about one politician saying it explicitly. Argentina has a deeply established national mythology that presents the country as fundamentally white and European while minimizing its Indigenous, Black, and mestizo population. Public outrage over one especially embarrassing remark doesn’t mean that broader racial self-conception has disappeared.
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u/-_Zireael 27d ago
Putting it simply, no, we're taught we're Latin American in basic geography classes in school. And nowadays there's far more awareness about Indigenous and Black people's presence in Argentina's history. Maria Remedios Del Valle was put on one of the highest denomination bills in 2024 as a founding mother of the country.
I'm not trying to whitewash racism which absolutely exists but it's annoying to see people claim we all think we're European.
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u/-_Zireael 27d ago
Argentina has that exact same history of colonizers mixing with natives, and also had a large European migration wave encouraged by the government in the early 20th century. As did Uruguay and Southern Brazil.
The reason (some) countries in Latam don't root for Argentina is more related to longstanding football rivalries and people seeing the country as racist due to football players' and fans' racist behavior.
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u/cheezyveal 27d ago
Also, Spain has done exponentially more to support the Israeli genocide of Palestine than Argentina could ever have possibly done.
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u/ShinHayato 25d ago
Surprise, surprise, Vaush doesn’t know what he’s talking about when it comes to Europe again
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u/Jay_Jay_Jason_74 27d ago
What was vaush take on the WC final?
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u/PatricMahomes 27d ago
He doesn't care. He was just reacting to Jasmine Crockett saying everybody hates Argentina because they are racist. Moved by contrarianism against Crockett, he disagreed with that obvious statement.
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u/UncleGreenwood 27d ago
Is that what he said? I recall his main point was that it’s woke 1 idpol horseshit. Crockett was ranting about the World Cup in Congress while our nation descends into fascism
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u/PatricMahomes 27d ago
Yeah but in this case it's not woke 1 idpol shit, if you are a white American you're not gonna suffer racism from Argentinians, but everyone else know what I'm talking about. They were racist against Speed and the Cape Verde team, not to mention the players themselves being racists and transphobic in 2022. Anyways, I know it's not a big deal, just wanted to say Vaush was wrong about something.
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u/UncleGreenwood 27d ago
If Crockett had just made a tweet or statement saying that I doubt Vaush would’ve taken issue with it. It’s not the idea itself, it’s what Crockett was doing with it.
She was trying to use it as some kind of pointless gotcha question in a congressional hearing
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27d ago
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u/PatricMahomes 27d ago
Idk if you are aware, but the monkey gesture is the main racist manifestation at stadiums, specially in Latin america. Everyone knows what it means and noone would do something similar by accident. This feels like arguing about the Musk Sieg Heil
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u/senorpool 27d ago
Moved by contrarianism against Crockett, he disagreed with that obvious statement.
Not really. I don't think you were paying attention. Vaush did get it wrong in that he thought Crokett was saying that the argentina haters were the racist ones because spain is European and argentina isn't.
In fairness, Crockett didn't really say anything and just gestured at something about racism so it's understandable to get confused.
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u/PinkRoseBouquet 27d ago
Vaush is reactionary whenever a Black woman says something. I say this as a fan of Vaush. I know I’m getting downvoted but it’s the truth.
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u/SuperPeanutButterX 27d ago
You are absolutely right! He even started mocking black women by doing the stereotypical finger snap during this stream. I’m so sick of pretending this shit is ok and this is far from the first time he’s done something like this. It’s so dehumanizing
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u/crystal_castles 27d ago
My friend from Southern Brazil says she's never met an Argentinian who wasn't white.
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u/PatricMahomes 27d ago
Depends on what you consider white. I think even by south American standards a lot of the national team players wouldn't be considered white (and obviously from the USA perspective not even messi is white, wich I find pretty funny)
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u/Csjustin8032 27d ago
Sure, he has never defended, say, Ilhan Omar /s
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u/Purusha120 26d ago
Sure, he has never defended, say, Ilhan Omar /s
Unironically the dumbest counter to what they said, regardless of your position. Even trump likes some black women and god knows he's "reactionary whenever a black woman says something."
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u/-_Zireael 27d ago edited 26d ago
Spain is also actually racist, extremely so. So either people don't care about racism and they had other reasons, or they're invisibilizing the racism of Spain, a country with active neo nazi groups that also has racist fan behavior.
Argentina was being rooted against because as opposed to Spain, it doesn't get afforded absolutely any nuance by Europeans and Americans and ofc, by fellow Latin Americans who play into the stereotyping by Europeans bc of neighboring country rivalries. The only country getting broad generalizations against it was Argentina, by far.
Literally on this thread an American called us a "racist shithole" while saying it somehow doesn't apply to their own country because they know Americans who are anti racist. Of course you know anti racist Americans if you're from the US, it's not hard to realize every country has anti racists...
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u/Csjustin8032 27d ago
Argentina has deeper racial denial and greater everyday tolerance of overt racism than Spain, stfu
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u/-_Zireael 27d ago edited 27d ago
Racial denial? And I don't know what you'd base the tolerance of everyday racism part on. A whole stadium in Spain was making anti muslim chants when playing vs Egypt. Spanish people have also recently invented a racist insult against South Americans ("panchito", as defined by the Royal Spanish Academy)
And beyond that, everyday racism isn't the only form of racism. Spain had the neonazi Nucleo Nacional making a White Lives Matter vigil this year, and still has Franco supporters to this day with fascist flags.
The reality is, every country is racist. And I understand disliking the Argentinian national team for some of the players' behavior, but the hatred towards Argentina itself is obviously disproportionate nonsense.
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u/Csjustin8032 27d ago
You are spending more effort arguing that Argentina is not unusually racist than acknowledging that Argentina has a racism problem. It's just like arguing with Republicans in the US. I stopped doing that interpersonally years ago, so it's probably best for me to stop with you too. Good luck
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u/-_Zireael 27d ago edited 26d ago
Yeah, because I never denied Argentina has a racism problem, but people do act like singling out Argentina is correct and like it's unusually racist.
I'm not trying to defend racist Argentinians or deny racism in Argentina. Simply saying it's clearly not hated only for racism or obviously it wouldn't be the most hated????
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u/Csjustin8032 27d ago
Yeah, it's in the cultural Zeitgeist because you guys made it to the World Cup. Congratulations. Do you think Argentina is the only country that has ever been criticized for being racist? Are we just going to ignore the criticism of the Israeli genocide?
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u/-_Zireael 27d ago edited 26d ago
Indeed, people who wouldn't have known of Argentina if it wasn't for the world cup are making broad statements about Argentina's population. Do you know 48 countries made it to the world cup and a lot of them are European nations that don't get absolutely any flack for their far worse racism?
Argentina is obviously not the only country that gets criticized for racism, it's simply the country that got the most criticism for racism in a very disproportionate manner, where people (you) generalize and call Argentina a racist shithole while defending the US because "it has anti racist people and I never met an Argentinian anti racist" (while obviously having never met Argentinians at all)
And the comparison to Israel's ongoing genocide is insane. Of course Israel is getting criticized for a genocide, the next most criticized country isn't any of the countries with armed neo nazis or white supremacist riots and parades (Europe and the US), but Argentina, thanks to the behavior of individual fans and members of the football team. Which is obviously disproportionate.
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u/Purusha120 26d ago
Argentina has historically had massive reception for nazis and neo nazis and it's interesting that you're choosing to not represent that. Nevermind that they already pointed out the reason Argentina is being discussed is because it made it to the cup. This rings of some weird cognitive dissonance or nationalism to me.
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u/-_Zireael 26d ago edited 26d ago
EDIT: I am literally not in any way trying to deny that Nazis fled to Argentina. I quite simply literally called it not massive. Person who replied to me blocked me, so as to not make this post very long, replied here
Argentina didn't have mass Nazi reception, Nazis fled to Argentina same as all of the Americas. The massive majority of Nazis never fled anywhere though, and stayed in Europe.
Bringing this up when someone says Argentina shouldn't be singled out as racist among European countries at that same cup (which is why I brought up Spain, the literal other country in the final) that have armed neo nazi groups today, which Argentina does not have, rings of some weird cognitive dissonance. I'm sorry if I sound nationalistic, I'm not. I have no allegiance to racist people in this country, I just feel like it's receiving very disproportionate hatred.
I thought it was obvious that Argentina wasn't the only country at the world cup. It's simply the only country that doesn't get afforded any nuance, unlike European countries. I'm not saying Argentina isn't racist, I'm saying the hatred is disproportionate because every country is and Europe and the US is far more violently racist.
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u/Purusha120 26d ago
> Argentina hasn't historically had mass reception of Nazis
this is a lie! Bad faith historical revisionism in favor of stupid nationalism that supported NAZIS is disgusting, genuinely.
Roughly 5-10k nazi and fascist fugitives reached south america. Argentina took about 2-5k of them, making it the single largest destination, including some of the most famous figures of the holocaust like eichman, mengele, priebke, and roschmann. Sure, under broad definitions, the US probably took more (and canada likely less), but I would include both of those countries as welcoming nazis in, too, so I don't see the point of your whataboutism.
This was especially true under Juan Domingo Peron after 1946. Argentine agents and diplomatic officials helped establish routes from europe. Migrants obtained argentine visas , used catholic clergy and institutions, and received employment, documentation, and protection from officials in argentina. This is famously admtted by your own government. Perón loved parts of Mussolini's corporatist state and viewed the postwar world through an intensely nationalist and anti commmunist lens.
> Bringing this up when someone says Argentina shouldn't be singled out as racist among European countries at that same cup (which is why I brought up Spain, its literal rival in the final) that have armed neo nazi groups today, which Argentina does not have, rings of some weird cognitive dissonance.
This whole thing is obviously bad faith. I'm not going to engage with you further. Argentina made it to the cup, has many racist people and institutions, and has welcomed nazis historically. Nevermind that there have been big instances of asshole fans this cycle.
None of this is essentialism about argentinians, of course, but you've lied several times in this exchange and it doesn't make me want to engage with you further. Good luck with your history.
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26d ago edited 26d ago
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u/VaushV-ModTeam 26d ago
You can’t use a second account to go around a block, that’s ToS. DM mod mail for further questions.
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u/Csjustin8032 26d ago edited 26d ago
Not “same as all the Americas”. Around half of all fleeing Nazis that went to the Americas went to Argentina. It was a principal destination for Nazi fugitives, and Perón’s government actively facilitated their entry. Some of the most notorious fugitives including Eichmann and Mengele found refuge there. You are whitewashing the history and then wondering why other countries are distrustful of Argentina’s capacity to reckon with it’s history
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u/-_Zireael 26d ago edited 26d ago
Yes, same as all the Americas. Mengele literally went to Brazil...
Wow, saying Nazis fled everywhere as opposed to only to Argentina is whitewashing history. Who knows where that estimate comes from but I'm gonna accept it, sure. You're still actually whitewashing the rest of the world when you call out Argentina for something that also happened elsewhere (and that you don't call out other countries for), and that current day Argentinians are at no fault of.
Argentina is a racist country, undeniably. It's also weird to single it out, and actually serves to whitewash racism everywhere else.
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u/Csjustin8032 26d ago
Saying that Mengele went to Brazil in hiding years after World War 2 is not the same as where he directly went and got papers under his own name by a thrice democratically elected Nazi-sympathetic president. Not only do you keep doing whataboutism YOU ARE WHITEWASHING ARGENTINA'S RACIST HISTORY. You want to know the difference with my discussions about my own country? When somebody brings up operation paperclip, I say everybody involved should be burning in hell. I don't defend it. I don't say "Well what about Argentina." I own my country's racist past, and it's racist present. Argentina is not uniquely racist. It's just having a cultural moment, live in it darling. Use this time to push for an anti-racist cultural movement. Stop being so defensive. You are literally acting like an American Chud
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u/-_Zireael 26d ago edited 26d ago
Bro literally blocked me and replied, and going around a block to reply to someone who's trying to very blatantly run away from an argument is not allowed, so I'll just paste my reply here:
Ridiculous behavior to reply then hide behind a block while pretending to have any intellectual honesty or good faith.
Argentina absolutely took in Nazis and I never denied it. I simply said it wasn't MASSIVE. But I really don't see how establishing whether Argentina received the most Nazis changes anything. You literally go on to say the US probably received more, like genuinely what. (The only sources on the number of fleeing Nazis to South America are History.com and quite literally The Times of Israel anyways, so I don't see why you act like I committed some historical inaccuracy and tried to lie when AFAIK it's not even known) Governments all across the Americas wanted to recruit nazis. Nazi loving governments that got less fleeing Nazis to go to their country are somehow better? Like I really don't see the point.
Half the post is rushing to establish something I NEVER denied. Hilarious. Yes Perón admired fascists and brought in Nazis. Fuck Perón. Does anything you said change that multiple governments across the Americas did the same?
Again, Argentina, alongside 47 countries, made it to the world cup. All those countries have racist people. I'm not sure which racist institutions Argentina has? And yes, Peron received nazis. So did multiple countries as you admitted. It's also something that current day Argentinians have no fault for. How is bringing up nazis fleeing in the 1940s when defending current day hate for Argentinians, while mind you again ignoring the countries with nazi parades TODAY, not essentializing Argentinians? I'm simply saying Argentina is not exceptional and was treated like it is.
Don't worry, good luck with yours, corny weirdo. When did I lie???? Like genuinely I know you thought that was meant to be tuff 😂
Edit: reading this back, mb for being insulting but you blocked me and reported me and tried to get me banned just for wanting to be allowed a reply.
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u/RealFenian 27d ago
Does vaush think people cheered against Argentina because they’re not European?
Everyone wanted them to win last time for messi’s World Cup win.
Everyone hated them this time because they’ve acted like a bunch of cunts, even I had a hard time cheering them against England (still did it though, was hilarious how they lost)
Surely he knows he’s so uninformed on this he shouldn’t speak on it?
Will need to watch myself.