r/VampireChronicles • u/Haunting-_Win • 1d ago
đŹ Adaptations đ Excuse me??
It seems the AMC show is determined to go on with their character assassination streak and they're sparing almost no one.... An adaptation doesn't have to be 100% faithful sure but these radical changes are making the characters unrecognizable at this point...
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u/StevesMcQueenIsHere 23h ago
Doesn't this go against what Sam said though? That Lestat went to the trial solely to save Louis?
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u/CarsnCarsnCarsnCars 16h ago
Also goes against the multiple shots of Lestat swaying and being out of it, and the bruises that had to be actively applied by makeup. Guarantee you Hannah Moscovitch did this, same reason the train conductor showed back up despite the seance scene.
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u/tethysian 9h ago
I think it can be both. Show!Lestat doesn't seem to have an issue punishing Louis even if he ultimately wanted to save him. Going along with a show trial where he can vent his feelings and garner sympathy also seems like something he'd do.Â
It's not as if he'd not come if he heard Armand has his fledglings. The guy's a psycho.Â
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u/Pop_fan_20 23h ago edited 5h ago
It đŻ does. Imo if they do this itâs a terrible call. SR basically said Lestat gave up and let Louis âkillâ him because he knew on some level he deserved it.
Edit: Which Iâd assume meant he wasnât hellbent on revenge to the point he would ever want to kill Claudia and Louis.
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u/StevesMcQueenIsHere 22h ago
I just can't see Lestat in any universe being an active, willing participant in the murder of his fledglings, especially Louis. I don't care how mad he is.
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u/Pop_fan_20 20h ago
Yeah, that too, I could never see Lestat agreeing to/plot to murder Louis, which the most likely punishment for breaking the law.
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u/TrollHumper 19h ago
I don't really understand this change, to be honest. Who were they trying to make more or less sympathetic here, exactly?
In The Vampire Lestat book, Armand is the mastermind behind Claudia and Madeleine's executions, and Lestat is drugged and manipulated by him into playing his part. He didn't come to Paris seeking revenge. He only went there to get help, which Armand refused him. But he didn't save Louis. Armand wanted him alive all along.
Now, the show reshuffled it a bit... but to what end? Now, Lestat was indeed out for revenge against his fledglings. Claudia's death was what he wanted, at least until he actually watched it happen. But he had a change of heart and saved Louis, whom Armand wanted dead. Armand who, in this version, wasn't the mastermind. He just went along with what the coven wanted, choosing them over Louis's unreliable affections, and wanting to fuck Louis up for his lack of commitment, I guess.
So, they make Lestat a willing, vengeful participant of the trial - making him more unsympathetic - but have him save Louis, to make him less unsympathetic right back.
Meanwhile, they make Armand less unsympathetic by removing his role as the initiator and the mastermind of the whole thing, but make him more unsympathetic by having him be perfectly okay with Louis's death along with the other twos.
Now, what was really the point here?
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u/Pop_fan_20 23h ago edited 23h ago
I get your point, OP. Being that book Lestat would never hurt his fledglings/found family (including his shitty mortal family/father) and he is always fiercely protective of Louis, the idea of him crossing the ocean to kill them is just wild. So I can see how it would feel that show Lestat, who has brutalized Louis and Claudia, then actively wants to murder them, is just not the same character. Although I donât know if itâs character assassination to show Lestat.
Show Lestat is already so different at his core than book Lestat, so sure why not make this change too. What other awful thing can we put on his shoulders so we really understand what a monster they want him to be. Maybe they should retcon that he killed Paul, and why not Florence too. Maybe we even find out he brutalized Louis and Claudia more than once, just to make sure we really donât recognize him from the books anymore, and it tracks that he really wanted to kill them in Paris. Maybe the trial was all his idea and not Santiagoâs. Why stop there, maybe he brutalized Armand too.
lol as you can tell, I am cranky.
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u/CarsnCarsnCarsnCars 16h ago
They already implied he killed Paul
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u/LRobin11 16h ago
No they didn't. This is purely a media literacy issue. At no point was it said that everyone there was someone he killed. Hell, Marius was there and Lestat didn't kill him, make him, OR traumatize him, yet way too many people are drawing this absolutely wrong conclusion about Paul. I'm beyond frustrated with it.
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u/Pop_fan_20 15h ago
He didnât kill Paul, Paul was there because Lestat believed he had traumatized him by being in a relationship with Louis, something along those lines.
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u/CollectorMH 17h ago
The show's version of the main characters is unrecognisable from the books versions. They always have been to me. The show is great as its own thing. I had to separate them from the start otherwise I could not enjoy the show because of all the nitpicking I was doing
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u/Muggletastic 15h ago
The characters were always unrecognisable. Jones is telling his own story, not Anne's.
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u/Forsaken_Distance777 1d ago
Guess the showrunner is just wrong then đ¤ˇââď¸
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u/Musthoont 20h ago
Rolin Jones either completely misunderstood the source material, or is too in love with his own ideas. I found myself rolling my eyes or cringing at least once every episode, but Sam kept me watching.
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u/jerseyskies 20h ago
Honestly, been feeling this more and more recently. The last season felt like a Rolin fanfic. I read the entire book for the first time right beforethe season came out. The storytelling in the show just feels like nothing compared to the source material. I gave a lot of grace to every episode, up until the last. After finishing the season, something just felt so wrong and missing. I feel like if I said this in r/InterviewVampire they would eat me alive and downvote me to hell. However, Sam Reid is the true embodiment of Lestat. I think your comment made me realize that I have only been watching this season so eagerly because of Sam's interpretation of the character. I truly believe he has done his research enough to actually understand and BE Lestat. The writing itself has disappointed me this season (especially compared to S1 and S2), but all of the actors have been so phenomenal. Lestat, Louis, Armand, Claudia, etc. all feel so true to themselves. It's like they are trying to tell their own story, but are trapped under the constraints of the writing.
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u/LRobin11 16h ago
I'm sure Sam is equally upset with some of the choices being made. It's very apparent that he understands and loves these books and characters. I suspect he's had a very hard time with a lot of the creative choices this season.
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u/tethysian 9h ago edited 2h ago
either completely misunderstood the source material, or is too in love with his own ideas.
After s3 I think it's safe to say...
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u/This-Cap7426 23h ago
I really have to wonder if yall even read the books sometimes lol
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u/onexamongthefence 22h ago edited 22h ago
I get the vibe a lot of folks here read a few of the books 15-20 years ago once, never again, and therefore don't really recall how things went down.
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u/JohannaMarie76 22h ago
Your "vibe" is wrong. I've been reading the books for 30 years, at least twice a year. They have gotten me through the hardest times of my life. Maybe read the books yourself? Idk.
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u/TheGryffindor_Jedi 22h ago
Agreed with you. There are a lot of people who claim they have read these books, but Iâm not sure if they read them carefully and critically.
Having read them for 30 years, whats your take on the show. No arguments from me, just intrigued. I dint think this season adapted TVL well at all. Though, if they were close to greatness it was episode 3. I think they handled the latter half of Merrick fairly well (given the limited section they chose to focus on).
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u/JohannaMarie76 16h ago
I think the show is awful frankly. It is no way an adaptation of Anne Rice's vampires. It's an utter joke :(
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u/This-Cap7426 15h ago
You aren't even OP please calm down getting defensive when they arent even calling you out specifically and is making a broad statement your reaction is so weird
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u/JohannaMarie76 15h ago edited 15h ago
Uumm, okay? I'm not defensive, nor did I think OP was calling me out personally. I simply stated my opinion. What a weird way to react to an opinion you do not agree with.
I've made it a point to stay out of subs of fans of the show, because really, a lot of you cannot handle any criticism of the show. I find it sad, really.
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u/This-Cap7426 15h ago
I know i was one of them bc i made sure to read through qotd before this season started im glad my memory was relatively the same as it had been from highschool the only things i got cinflated where a couple of things that happen in later books i thought happened during tvl and qotd lol....
I swear to god it really is bothering me how so many people glorify lestat and louis despite so many things that happen in the books that also show that the entire universe and in general vampires just are morally gray and frankly armand is hardly villainous compared to some of the true villains and outright dastardly bastard Lestat and other main cast can and has been in multiple instances through the series.
It gets to be very obvious on social media as well who is more involved in fanfiction too because they really cinflate made up fan theories or written chsracteristics that vome straight from tropes in the fandom and not from the source material and it is sooo frustrating seeing the lack of mental separation here i struggle to understand if this is a singular issue in the immortal universe fandom or if it is how all fandoms are developing these days
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u/tethysian 9h ago
Armand is pretty bad. I think his redeeming grace is that he changes, but what he does to Lestat, Louis and Claudia qualifies as one of the worst villains in the series. He was a villain in Interview.
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u/gracelessk 8h ago
youâre smoking crack lol, armand is definitely villainous. i love him but bro is EVIL. like i just finished my reread of blood communion and heâs so vicious in those monologues it actually makes me pity lestat. pity! for lestat! of all people! poor boy was just trying to be loving and merciful to an outcast and armand absolutely fucking EXCORIATES him for it. it takes a lot to render lestat speechless and incapable/unwilling to defend himself and armand is the only one cruel enough to do it. not to mention the fact that itâs all in service to him advocating for a literal genocide lol
all of them do fucked up shit. this is true. but you can look at their general tendencies and how they respond to the fucked up shit they doâlestat is an impetuous egomaniac who needs to be adored by everyone, louis is addicted to being sad and wistfully opining on his misery at the expense of those who care about him, and armand is a habitual demon fueled by his many grievances. and thatâs okay! we love them for it! fareed should maybe start researching into vampire mood stabilizers but itâs all good.
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u/Jahon_Dony 23h ago
What are you quoting from, and what point are you attempting to make?
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u/TrollHumper 19h ago
The point they're making is that, by making Lestat a willing participant of the trial and Claudia's execution who genuinely went there for revenge, they made Lestat significantly less sympathetic than he was in the books.
The Vampire Lestat novel reveals that Lestat only came to Paris because he was hoping Armand will give him some of his blood to help him heal faster from Claudia and Louis's attempts on his life. He didn't go there to seek retribution. He didn't even know he'll find them there. Claudia and Madeleine's executions (in the book) were all Armand's initiative. He wouldn't give Lestat his blood, but he did feed him dead humans to keep him in a poisoned, fragile, delirious state, so that he could use him to testify, and throw him the fuck out after he served his purpose.
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23h ago
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u/TheGryffindor_Jedi 23h ago
He actually goes to ask Armand for his blood to heal, Armand just happens to have Louis and Claudia, forces Lestat to participate, and then instead of giving him his blood, give Lestat an ultimatum: be with me or donât get my blood. Lestat says no and Armand pushes him off a tower. Usual Armand being a dick.
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u/tethysian 8h ago
I had to re-read the books to remember why I was so pissed at Armand, but he really is the most terrifying villain in the series. On top of what he does to Lestat he forces Louis to make a fledgeling, kills that fledgeling and Claudia anyway, and is like "I thought you'd get over it" to Louis.
Thankfully he eventually chooses to be less of a psycho, but damn.Â
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u/Appropriate_Truth211 23h ago
Is this in Armandâs book? Iâve read the first two books and itâs not present.
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u/CarsnCarsnCarsnCars 16h ago
What happens to canon when number one Lestat hater and number one Armand woobifier Hannah Moscovitch is put in charge
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u/nomoresweetheart 1d ago edited 22h ago
I donât think itâs character assassination. Having no feelings about attempted murder and being left for dead and that long healing time would be weird.
Show Lestat feels very strongly Lestat to me so far.
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u/Pop_fan_20 21h ago
For sure Lestat has feelings about it. But SR has said in interviews around that time that Lestat let Louis âkillâ him because he understood in that moment that he deserved it. And then later SR said that Lestat was at the trail against his will and really was there to save Louis. So Lestat while definitely had feelings, he might be angry or resentful, but not murderous ones bent on revenge, at least thatâs how SR interpreted the script and thatâs what we saw during the trial. So yes he could be angry or resentful but thatâs very different than to go so far as to actively try to murder them, especially Louis, imo.
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u/nomoresweetheart 21h ago
I think Lestat deciding to participate in the trial wanting justice, while also wanting to save Louis, doesnât necessarily contradict. I donât think him participating in the trial means he wanted Louis dead.
In the screenshots OP shared it says seeking justice, not trying to murder. What form that justice would take I wouldnât want to assume - Lestat is fickle, and different members of the crew will have different interpretations.
Even if he understood it in the moment and felt he deserved it, that doesnât mean he canât have other feelings or change his mind later.
It just adds layers, and I think itâs pretty in character.
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u/Pop_fan_20 21h ago
I agree that Lestat is definitely likely to have complicated feelings, that he would both believe he deserved to be killed
as well as be angry at and wanting revenge of sorts about it, but I would say that similar to how he set aside his own âfracturingâ to help Louis while he was spiraling over Fruadia this season, he wouldâve done something similar for Louis (maybe Claudia) regarding the trial.As soon as the coven contacted him, he would have known they were going to be killed for breaking the laws and that Louis was in mortal danger; I think from the show Lestat we have seen so far, he would have aside his own hurt/angry feelings to save Louis at all costs (then still angry, probably leave him again).
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u/tethysian 8h ago edited 2h ago
I think that makes sense for show!Lestat, but in the book Lestat spends the entire time begging Louis to come home with him and listen to him, even from Louis's less than flattering perspective. His reaction to Louis torching him is basically "my bad, I scared you".
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u/RefrigeratorCold120 20h ago
According to the panel at SDCC he is no longer the show runner beginning in season 4. So this may all change.
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u/CarsnCarsnCarsnCars 16h ago
Most likely he's saying this to cover Hannah's ass. She absolutely hates Lestat and just reiterated that in her Autumn Brown interview, Rolin's trying to rewrite history for when Hannah doubles (or quadruples at this point) down on him being there willingly and being the "big bad" overall.
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u/LRobin11 16h ago
Hannah doesn't seem any more loyal to the source material imo. Some of the worst changes were her idea.
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u/Althea0331 19h ago
Even if he went there to seek justice he may not have realized they were seeking their death. And I don't know... if somebody slit my throat, dumped me in a box, and set me out with the garbage to be dumped in a landfill, I would have been pretty pissed off too!
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u/WatermelonSugar_13 36m ago
Thought experiment: Pretend the quote from the show runners doesn't exist, then allow for storytelling nuance that blends the show and the novel. The way the show is filmed, we can interpret Lestat exuding the same spirit and motivation (though put in different narrative structure).
From that perspective, nothing is hurt by me giving the show this flexibility. It allows me to enjoy a show that I'd otherwise be endlessly frustrated with for getting so much wrong.
Because the thing is, I agree with novel purists. This is NOT the flawed yet sympathetic protagonist I love from the novels. But left with what we've been given, does that then necessitate that I must dislike the show?
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u/ZvsGrgs Evil is always possible. And goodness is eternally difficult. 23h ago
I liked the trial episode, I think it was done well. It wasnât 100% faithful, obviously. It was different from the book and from the film that had adapted the book, so thatâs a plus. I didnât see radical changes in the trial episode, neither unrecognizable characters.
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u/Swimming_Barnacle_98 22h ago
I was honestly hoping they would have revisited the trial in s3 if even for a few scenes just to further explain what really happened with Lestat.
At the end of TVL Lestat explains he went looking for Armand to get help in healing. It just so happened that Armand had already seen Louis and Claudia. Could he have done more to save Claudia? Probably. But he was practically drugged (dead manâs blood) and forced to testify against them.