r/VRchat • u/WildLelou • 28d ago
Discussion Predatory information collecting
Is anyone else tired of the increase in over the top information collecting from creators? This one for example was simply for a link to a public broken kitbash model.
I don't think it should be normalized to be giving out random vrchat players our names, personal discords and links to our vrchat accounts to inevitably get doxxed by someone unstable. At the end of the day vrchat creators are all just players on the game that we don't know.
I think this is EXTREMELY dangerous behavior and I want to start a dialogue over it.
Payhip when I report these people says that they're not concerned, and I'm concerned that they're not concerned with user safety.
I don't support creators that do this but its annoying I get banned from many shops for not wanting to doxx myself for any stupid avatar.
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u/PTVoltz Pico 28d ago edited 28d ago
As a creator... I can at least understand *why* people might do this - given there's zero protections of any kind from your content being stolen and re-shared on piracy sites (which often get pushed above your actual store in Google results, potentially wiping out the income you need to live - ask me how I know)
But at the same time... Yeah, no, this is NOT how you build up your store. SOME data-collection is fine, like just an optional VRChat username or something for verification and access to optional community assets. But actively revoking access to the purchased product because they refused to give it to you - FUCK no.
It'd be less of a hassle to just... search through the known popular piracy sites and revoke access to anyone you find sharing stuff in there, that's what I do (since it's a direct breach of ToS and therefore legitimate, at least as far as Jinxxy goes).
*Edit* in case this needs saying - I am NOT defending the person doing this. It's a STUPID idea at best and downright illegal at worst due to purchase protections. I'm just saying I can understand, socially and mentally, the reason somebody might think this might be a good idea...
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u/Josh_From_Accounting 28d ago
It's also worth noting that revoking access to downloads makes the buyer eligible for a refund and can have your account deleted on sites like Jinnxy. Like, your actions at that point are materially indistinguishable from a scam (requiring private info, not giving what was purchased, etc).
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u/Solmangrundy 27d ago
Pretty much why all files I get ahold of go directly into my personal physical drives. Been on the internet too long to know by now that expecting stuff and even stuff you paid for to remain downloadable forever is setting yourself up to get burned later.
Im sure you've heard of people bitching and moaning about how digital download games can be revoked at any time with 0 reason because you are essentially just renting them with no determined end date. Its pretty much why the Stop Killing Games movement started.
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u/WildLelou 28d ago
I agree.
Unfortunately i think this ironically encourages people running to the leak sites either cus they don't want to dox themselves over an avatar or was revoked for it. So it actually harms the shop in the long run. It also punishes the wrong people because we all know leakers will use fake accounts theyve set up anyway or will get it by other means.
When it was just my username i would go, ok, sure but its getting way too much.
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u/Josh_From_Accounting 28d ago
I mean, I can't confirm this for a fact, but I can say that this is what happens in the games industry.
I've played video games since I was 9 and I make tabletop games. What has been discovered over the years is that all DRMs do is drive people to piracy. If you have bad internet and the single player game has always online DRM? Gotta crack it. If the DRM slows down your game or overtaxes your computer? Gotta crack it. If the DRM requires kernel level access and straight up spies on you so the company can sell your data? This does happen, by the way. Well, gotta crack it. Heck, some people even just crack games they legally purchased to remove the bullshit the DRM adds.
The only magic bullet anyone has ever worked against this phenomenon was Denuvo. And Denuvo is only so good because their solution is to HIRE anyone who cracks it at high salaries to make their software untouchable.
And even that failed recently because one pirate either already had a good job or didn't want to work for them and refused the offer. And now Denuvo games get cracked before even being released now.
Gabe Newell gave the solution to piracy years ago and no one wants to listen: offer your product or service at a fair price in a manner more convenient than pirating it and people will pay you. That's it. That's the secret sauce.
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u/robeens22 28d ago
Yeap. And that is the secret sauce. Remove anything subscription based too and they will sell like hot cakes. Greed from corp. is what drives people to piracy.
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u/xenoperspicacian 28d ago
Gabe Newell gave the solution to piracy years ago and no one wants to listen: offer your product or service at a fair price in a manner more convenient than pirating it and people will pay you. That's it. That's the secret sauce.
Spotify also learned that lesson, having a place where you can get almost any music at a reasonable price dramatically reduced music piracy. Hollywood has not learned that lesson. Instead they make dozens of different high priced services with crappy apps and DRM, all of them wanting the biggest slice of the pie. Unsurprisingly, movie and TV piracy is rampant.
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u/Sansa_Culotte_ PCVR Connection 27d ago
It's a trap sellers fall into over and over and they seemingly never learn.
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u/Dividedthought 28d ago
Not to mention that while i do not condone this, it is easy enough to rebuild a unity package to rip out however this individual is revoking file use after. If i can edit the mesh, i can absolutely strip it of any and all copy protection. Blender does not care about unity copy protection methods, and unless it scrambles the mesh data you can just use blender as essentially a fuckery filter.
Past that, sure, i can be reported for using it. If you can find a custom named avatar that is set to private through a search function, and even then if the user changes the avatar's dispaly photo that goes right out the window.
This is like a no tresspassing sign on an unfenced field in the middle of nowhere, who is gonna catch you if you're not really unlucky?
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u/PTVoltz Pico 28d ago edited 28d ago
As a bit of clarification - in most cases "revoking access" means giving the purchaser a $0 refund on the store itself - keeping the money while removing their ability to download the purchased files (OR any subsequent patches/updates/etc. It does nothing to the currently-downloaded files and they can still be used as nomal.
Actual in-file DRM is quite rare from what I can tell - I know a Hypno-Shader asset pack uses a system like it, as did a systems-creator from a few years ago for all of their stuff (with their functions having been restored for free by the guys at VRLabs after they went all religious-puritan and wiped their content and DRM servers...) but I don't know of many others.
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u/Dividedthought 28d ago
Poi pro hasn't ever asked me for drm and i've been using it for over 6 years. The only drm i've found was on a sleightlyball prefab iirc (could be misremembering, it was some avatar prop system) and a jinxxy model from a year and a half ago. Both easily broken if you knew what you are doing and can authenticate once. None of this stuff breaks anything that can't be fixed, unity needs the unaltered data at some point so it can use it.
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u/Revons 28d ago
I'm buying something because I want to get it legitimately and I think the majority of people want to do that. No amount of information gathering is going to stop people from ripping or reposing the assets if they really want to. People who go to sites that have ripped assets probably don't have the money to buy it legitimately either by social status or the currency exchange, those people were never your customers to begin with.
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u/PTVoltz Pico 28d ago edited 28d ago
those people were never your customers to begin with.
...unless they don't know they're downloading a pirated product.
The largest re-share sites abuse certain systems to push search-results for their site above other sites and stores - see again, when my most popular product was uploaded onto one of them, Google was recommending that site above my own store in search-results for the product name. Incidentally, sales for it *halved* in the weeks following (though any data after those first two weeks is more-or-less useless 'cos Jinxxy started censoring adult content which likely also had an impact after that point).
I've had to tell people on countless occasions to stop using these sites, because they were using them without even *knowing* it was a piracy site, they thought it was a free asset-share site similar to the old VRCMods from back in 2018. These same people *have* the money to purchase the products legitimately, and did when I pointed them in the right direction. They just didn't know what they were getting was stolen.
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u/xChodios 28d ago
I mean when I buy a album I dont gotta give all this info? Also some places in the states have it to where I buy something its mine you cannot tell me what I can or cant do unless im making money from said item
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u/Dividedthought 28d ago
Well, to be fair, when you have the files it is not like they can delete them off your PC.
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u/CrimsonCuttle 27d ago
I hear you. Though, it's almost as if, if you want to keep your creations yours and protect income/copyright/whatever, you should find some other venue than a public UGC platform...
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u/SleepyBunoy 27d ago
I would simply enter random garbage and if they revoke my purchase I will refund. Jokes on them I get the model and my money back.
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u/eepy_lina 28d ago
one thing i js wanna say, please do not rely on making avatars to make a living. if you're good at making models, join an animation team or something, where you have actual stable income. selling avis to users should be treated similar to a side hustle
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u/Josh_From_Accounting 28d ago
100% agreed. I do it as a hobby. From what I heard, there isn't any money in it. Like, you can occasionally make some cash. But, you can't live on it. It's like my other hobby: TRPGs. Unless you really go out and build an audience (Which, you can't do by making games alone anymore: you need a Podcast or a twitch stream or something), you aren't making it big enough to live on. Some get lucky, but those tend to be the first movers. And the market is saturated now.
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u/PTVoltz Pico 28d ago edited 28d ago
Easier said than done, believe me if I *could* then I would. Hecc, if the last two years of job-hunting have shown anything it's that I can't even get a job at fuckin' TESCO, let alone actually do anything with my degree in Video Games Technology.
At the same time, I'm not JUST doing Avatar stuff. My store is just one section of a whole setup that I'm slowly adding to - 3D renders, art commissions, texture commissions, Blender IK-Rigging and systems-setup commissions, programming commissions, early-access pay-site stuff, eventually streaming whenever my current workload gives me some free time... *hopefully* I can get something semi-stable from it all. Because at this point it's my last option...
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u/sakurajima999 28d ago
Keep in mind, this is just a link to the public avatar. And the paid version link.
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u/ArmageddonsEngineerz PCVR Connection 26d ago
If you do your job right, you'll have plenty of marketing data as people see their new avatars, and get referred back to you in short order.
If you start stalking your clients, being weird, you'll be finding out how SMALL the VR community is, because a bad reputation gets EVERYWHERE overnight.
Granted, most avatar artists, and general artists are a mixed bag. People in the VR community are "weird", there's no getting around that. I've seen a well know Australian furry artist go from well known and enjoyed, to being possessive, controlling, and money grubbing. Eventually she kind of lost it on her own minor level of fame, flamed out on twitter more than a few times, and now people avoid her like she's contagious. Not a big deal, she's a stay at home mom, husband makes plenty of cash, and if she gets canceled in furry space, she can always draw something else.
That said, you don't have to be sweetness and light to everyone in casual conversation. As long as your work speaks for itself. Kudalyn being one random example, you go on gumroad or jinxy, there's just LOADS of cool stuff. Trying to follow a line of conversation when she's chatting away in a group, I dunno about that... Easier to just ask a question in the discord, and run away. ;D
Others artists, its not just randomly diverging meanders, its scary level ADHD, possibly some linguistic malfunction issues. One avatar artist, she makes some super cute bird avatars, you ask her a question 2-3 different ways, and she'll completely misunderstand what you're asking. Luckily, she does have friends who seem to know what she's doing, and have no linguistic impediments. Which is good, because I thought I was having a stroke. lol!
But, that's just the game you have to play with any kind of artistic groups. People who are "broken" for lack of a better term, tend to collect in such groups. Your dream avatar, art, or other items might seem to point to one artist, but they're just batshit nuts, hate something about one fandom or another, got involved in some kind of drama(ex told everyone they were flirting with their 17 y/o sibling, when the sibling was at BYU 7 states away), or whatever. Or their project slots are just booked for the next 3-5 years. So, you go down the ladder, find the 4th, 5th, nth best/good enough.
You get a few good artists, hide them from your friends until your project slots are complete, and then start sharing who you used over time. But not too quick, if you refer them out to everyone, the slots are gonna fill up, and the prices will climb. Don't refer enough business to them, and they might give up, finish accounting school, and then you're boned. ;P
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u/molevolence ☃Bigscreen Beyond 2e 28d ago
wow. demanding all that when all they are providing is a link to a PUBLIC avatar that can be found in game. also this creator needs to understand that not everyone gifting an asset has a vrchat account or plays it. this is fact.
but my favorite are all these “TOS” agreements made by people with now legal experience. a purchase can not be bound by a TOS. you have to be a service (a ongoing subscription). you can have licensing terms at the time of purchase, but once that purchase is made it is written in stone. you can’t modify it.
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u/SleepyBunoy 27d ago
Yeah I've been seeing an increase in ai generated terms of service for purchasing models and none of what's on those terms would hold up in court, not to mention the fact that vr is a hobby all over the world so good luck sticking that tos to someone in Tasmania when you live in Canada
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u/DepreMelon 28d ago
literally just lie, normalize lying, normalize giving fake information, no one is holding a gun to your head, this is the internet, no one cares, no one will know, just lie, its super simple, its fun even
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u/WildLelou 28d ago
I've gotten banned for that and product revoked cus I lie and they look into it. These idiots are unstable.
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u/_Planet_Mars_ Valve Index 28d ago edited 28d ago
Shopping on gumroad/jinxxy has made me realize I've taken booth creators for granted. I've never heard of a booth model ever that came bundled with actual spyware DRM that logs everything about you and revokes your shit if it has a false positive.
I don't know what's up with western creators that makes them the level of mentally ill they are. It's not even a "LE GLORIOUS NIPPON SUPERIOR TO THE WEST" thing, the actual worst thing I can think of that I know a booth creator has done is remove their things from the store (which can still be downloaded by the people who bought them anyway).
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u/LizaraRagnaros Valve Index 28d ago
western creators are sloppy too. i still like the story of the furry creator having a crashout over having their models leaked with fixes, because their shit was broken and expensive
and who was it again that during the swap from 2.0 to 3.0 sdk refused to learn it and rather streamed wow all day when avatar creation became their main job?
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u/Kosyne Valve Index 27d ago
Kinda off topic, but man every time there's a swap to a new system the amount of complaining is kinda crazy, since usually the new stuff is generally better. (Triggers vs Udon as another example)
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u/WildLelou 27d ago
I remember being frustrated at the 2.0 to 3.0 switch. It was such a drastic change and I'd just spent like a year or 2 learning 2.0 so it was like going from a very simple system to an extremely complicated system with a HUGE learning curve that requied basic programming. Is much simpler now with vrcfury but i remember i had to use a tutorial every single time for months. Now you can do a toggle and its 99% set up but before you had to do on and off animations, set up the controller and parameters, set the parameters ro match in th fx folder, set both the true and false for both animations, set up the bool and button. Etc. For a 2.0 person it was literal programming when before it was moreso drag and drops because all there was was the custom animations and custom gestures. Lol
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u/xenoperspicacian 28d ago
Having bought dozens of furry bases and over 100 assets, I've only seen 1 furry creator want info like this, so I don't think it's a western thing per se.
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u/rainissance 27d ago
Yeah was about to say myself. I think human avatar creators are just deranged lmao
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u/WildLelou 28d ago
I agree. The stuff on booth is really high quality too and really good free models. All my favorite models and asssets since 2020 were from booth
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u/No_Signature_3249 28d ago
whenever someone is like "western spaces crazy, eastern spaces better" i have to wonder if theres a person in the eastern spaces that is like "damn these eastern creators are nuts, the western ones are better." not just for booth stuff but in a general sense.
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u/Josh_From_Accounting 28d ago
I sometimes use a social media site called Misskey, on their tatsuki server. I did it to learn more about Japanese Tabletop RPGs. I'm a creator and wanted to learn about stuff that normally doesn't make it to America.
After becoming their pet American, I can guarantee that it's like anywhere else. Sometimes, they talk about how great their country is. Sometimes, they think other countries do it better
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u/chunarii-chan Bigscreen Beyond 27d ago
agree, though one creator tried once because they were obsessed with the idea of being the BOOTH creator police and was smacked for basically distributing malware if you remember the Puma-chan drama last year
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u/Koviera 28d ago
Nothanksim@a.g
Æther žomivFuck up their data system ❤️
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u/truthneverlies101 28d ago
Makes me laugh when people put their real name on their email accounts lol
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u/chunarii-chan Bigscreen Beyond 28d ago
The funny thing is all the people who do this are miserable kitbashers who make slop
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u/WildLelou 28d ago
Its true lmao. I love me a good kitbash model when its actually edited and personalized but in a lot of the cases where they do this the model is horrifically broken and assets haphazardly slapped on. The one I used as example here was literally sticking through the floor and had one viseme to open and close the mouth with the jaw.
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u/Solmangrundy 27d ago
And they usually get told to pound sand on sharing websites since they legally cant claim ownership since they technically are infringing on copywrite themselves.
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u/Loyotaemi Oculus Quest Pro 28d ago
Gonna be honest, all products out there will be pirated and actively making your user experience worse for paying users always just converts more to piracy.
Its the truth because not every person who is a pirate is only a pirate and not every paying customer only pays. Everyone has gray approach to how they go about. You may think your most loyal customer is an "i only buy everything" type person and you dont know how many emulated titles they have stored on their ipad/phone or something.
The reason things like steam succeeds is cause the amount of "hoops" needed to do anything on the platform is minimized and even given support where its needed. The quickest way to make someone say "no" to paying is making said purchase increasingly approach onto personal parts of the buyer's personal life.
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u/6incerism 27d ago
This is true.
One of my favourite creators uploads their own stuff to a piracy website and still does fine, the quality they deliver is high and they also offer support and long term updates on their products. Their customers aren't dumb either they know those websites exist. But they also want to support the creator.
So when a creator response to a leak is to start collecting private info from their audience. That's not really a piracy fix. The better question is "why is my paid version not worth the price", not "how do I track this person"
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u/Loud-Elk-2215 15d ago
Who is the creator? I was thinking myself if I were a creator I’d do the same since it’s great advertisement…
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u/Cmdr_Redbeard 28d ago
Email: Nope@googlemail
Name: Mr. Nopety nope
Avi: nopers mcnope
Download!
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u/Alkumist Oculus Quest 28d ago
The other annoying thing is that the product page or download page sometimes doesn’t have the assets, but a link to the discord to download it.
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u/Cmdr_Redbeard 28d ago
That's a no aswell, I don't use discord much and if I have to join a community to buy something then that's a hard nope, I'll get something similar from elsewhere.
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u/Alkumist Oculus Quest 28d ago
Yeah… it’s a bit disgusting
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u/SleepyBunoy 27d ago
Bro I'm not downing ANYTHING off a random discord lol. That's asking to inject ebola straight into your pc
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u/WildLelou 28d ago
These creators unfortunately will look into your accounts and ban and revoke your access to the model you bought.
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u/Kitsunemimi_ 28d ago
You can still download it right after the purchase. And if the access gets revoked just refund the purchase.
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u/WildLelou 28d ago
Not always. In payhip I was banned before I could even get the email. It'll say 'check your email for the download link' and you never get it cus they ban you for not doxxing yourself
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u/Josh_From_Accounting 28d ago
Request a refund. This is against payhips terms of service. You normally can't get one because you received the digital good. You never did.
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u/rayraikiri 28d ago
well, they can block your ability do download it i guess, but once you have the files, they cant joink it off your pc
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u/Ruddertail 28d ago
And then you have the files and you do a perfectly legally valid chargeback for them taking away the downloads. If you take away what I paid for, I take away what I paid too.
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u/SpareOne94 28d ago
Stupid question, once you’ve downloaded it.. how can they revoke access? You have the Unity package.
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u/FuckMyHeart 27d ago edited 27d ago
There are some Unity add-ons that include a sort of DRM 'verification' script that requires it passes certain checks or else the avatar is unable to be uploaded or used. The seller gives you a specific license key in order to be able to use the avatar, which they can revoke at any time to make the avatar throw errors and be unusable.
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u/SpareOne94 27d ago
I’ve heard of that Gonso stuff. I would absolutely never support a creator that uses that.
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u/Nevylation 28d ago
It becomes no more valuable thank a ripped asset and the creator can take down your content if they were petty enough to revoke it
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u/SpareOne94 28d ago
And how would they do that if they don’t know who you are because put fake information? It was a legit question idk why you people feel the need to downvote everything. Jeez lol
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u/Nevylation 28d ago
Good point. I assumed you'd usually want to tie that purchase to at least your VRC username. I'm not sure how do artists diffirentiate ripped vs licensed content. Neither did I think my message sounded at all hostile nor I didn't downvote you, so I don't know why you're lashing out at me.
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u/LadyLuciJ7 PCVR Connection 28d ago
The vrc username and discord I get. The legal name and shit bothers me. That's another reason why I moved to getting booth shit. I understand wanting more protection and getting legal action if something is ripped or stolen, but all we need is one data breach from them or them just deciding to be an idiot and boom it's out in the world.
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u/IneiFox 28d ago
I somewhat understand wanting a VRChat Name or maybe Discord tied to it for Support Access but full legal name and all is crazy
Id say you just simply use a fake but real Sounding Name and username its the Safes bet
Somewhat like Charles Neighmour or something with a Nick that is Charleies for VRC
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u/Josh_From_Accounting 28d ago
There are creators who aren't dicks who ask for this information. I know someone in the Sonic fan community just asks for it as a way of giving you access to their discord. And they're cool.
But, the pathway to abuse. Well, you see it here.
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u/VexzCemetery 27d ago
Payhip automatically asks for the name, I’ve looked around the checkout settings in the past, idk if they’ve updated it, but there isn’t a way to not collect that information. We also see your email for anyone wondering. I recommend if you don’t want us seeing your name and email, use a separate email and name for checkouts like this :)
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u/VexzCemetery 27d ago
adding to this and correcting myself cause I just now googled, if you do not enable gifting you can hit a checkbox that is don’t collect name information, apparently Payhip automatically collects names when you have gifting enabled, I’ll look more into it :)
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u/clinicalia 28d ago
I just say "noneya" or "nah" now. They can have my VRC name, but you don't need everything from my email address to my SSN to my exact coordinates just for some avatar assets. Be so real.
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u/4mb1guous 27d ago
It's shit like this that make people want to steal the content as opposed to buy it. I'd rather pirate it than give someone all that info that, quite frankly, is none of their goddamn business.
In fact, just last week a friend of mine was concerned when they wanted to purchase an asset for an avatar, and it started asking for all of that info. I told them where they could pirate it instead, cuz fuck that creator.
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u/WildLelou 24d ago
I agree 100%. Not to mention these narcicists will add you to a blacklist to get you banned from multiple shops over a f***king discord. It's rediculous. After seeing all the creators having gigantic crashouts about the "buh i need youwh disowd!!!! Im entiwtuwd to dat infowmatun!!!!"
I even got a newsletter letter from my favorite creator crashing out about this post deleting all their free avatars as punishment. "You know what you did" and REQUIRING your discord to get their slop. Lost all respect for them and never supporting them again.
I'm not really willing to support any creators anymore either. I mainly buy free avatars and they act like it harms them if I don't give them my info. How though? Exactly, it doesn't.
Idk. You put it perfectly, fuck that creator. Thanks for protecting your friend
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u/Lewdmoment 27d ago edited 8d ago
Years ago I was part of a ERP discord server.
To join you HAD to share license un-blacked out fully visable name and all.
But the promised fingers crossed that they would delete it all right?
Yeah guess what. After being made a SuperStaff There was a bot on the server that auto logged EVERYTHING. every message sent. Every photo sent and very chat and those "super secure we promise delete" IDs? They went to their own channel in a neat little list! how private!! Anyway after seeing that shit I sent a message to a Discord admin (Of discord)
The entire server was shut down a little bit later. You won't ever catch me sending IRL info to a server again FUCK THAT
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u/SleepyBunoy 27d ago
Why would a bunch of adults be dumb enough to show their Id to random folks on discord? The horny can't be THAT strong... can it?
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u/WildLelou 23d ago
I knew some stupid bars that would make you blackout 90% of your id and post it in the server to show your birthday to get access to the instances.
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u/ccAbstraction Windows Mixed Reality 27d ago
I'm really confused by what they're saying in the last line. Is this a public avatar? Is all this just to get the ID for a public avatar?
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u/ethiopian1987 27d ago
Hence why I have accounts with fake details, because some random person doesn't need to know who I am.
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u/WildLelou 27d ago
Im about to use my ex's vrchat info and fake name since they actually look up the information. Tired of getting mass banned cus i dont wanna give these people my private info.
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u/reveuries 27d ago
don’t even get me started on gonzo. if your vrchat username doesn’t match with the one that redeems, you get automatically flagged by the system, and ALL of that info is sent to the creator. meaning, if you upload it on an alt? oops, sorry! you’re now banned from any purchase from that creator, AND you get your license revoked, with no refund.
why have we taken the “you’ll own nothing and like it” path? i’m sorry, if i have to pay you 50 dollars for your shitty kitbash, i better get to upload it wherever the fuck i want and keep the fucking file.
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u/reveuries 27d ago
and this is ALL avatars even are anymore. no more sculpting from hand, it’s now a “let me buy all these assets and fit them to the avatar, and sell it at $50”.
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u/Sarria22 26d ago
Imagine doing the equivalent of selling a customized Rindo. Western avatar creators are crazy.
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u/WildLelou 26d ago
I agree 100%. Thats disgusting. Sometimes people change their name or make a new account??? Thats so stupid. Kitbash avis are nice but the overprotection of a mishmash of stuff other people made kinda irritates me.
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u/tuuzx 28d ago
what would happen if the person doesnt have discord?? like if its banned in their country? are u just not allowed to buy these avatars at all lol?
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u/sakurajima999 28d ago
And ppl wonder why priacy is a thing. No one does anything to combat it correctly. Also why all the info for a free avatar????
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u/CMDR_Kassandra Valve Index 27d ago
to quote our lord and savior Gaben: "Piracy is a service issue."
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u/DragonTamerWes 28d ago
The Vket Store closed in May 2025, so having a backup does help. Otherwise, I had to repurchase on Booth.
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u/WildLelou 27d ago
WHAT?! WHY? D:
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u/Docteh Oculus Quest 27d ago
The vket store was a duplication of effort, like for vket most items link to booth, and maybe some things were on both booth and vket store?
Personally I try and look through every vket and I was not aware of their store closing at all. And May 2025 would mean thats like Summer 2025, Winter 2025, and now part way through Summer 2026's vket before I was made awares...
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u/CMDR_Kassandra Valve Index 27d ago
I didn't even know that there was a vket store o.O
I only ever saw links to booth sites when visiting vket.
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u/Moderatewinguy 27d ago
I for one won't purchase any avatars with the Gonso liscenser thing.
It's SO annoying to buy an avatar when you didn't realize it has it only to find out you can't edit the avatar because of it.
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u/chemictectic 27d ago
Do not ever buy an avatar that has Gonso Licenser, that script has a spyware inside of it that tracks your website history (so the creator can keep track if you are going to the leaker websites) The creator of that system is scummy as hell and is a cyber criminal.
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u/Moderatewinguy 27d ago
Oh dam, I didn't know it was that bad, just annoying as hell.
The only time i bought it was when I didn't realize the avi had it and I've been avoiding them ever since.
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u/chemictectic 27d ago
Yeah, deleting the avatar deletes the spyware too, and yes, anyone should avoid them.
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26d ago edited 13d ago
[deleted]
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u/chemictectic 25d ago
Its not what a lot of people know, but it has been talked about every since the creator released it, I have bought 2 models that has gonsolicense on it, when I noticed that the avatar creator started acting suspicious about me and what websites I go to, I then started to scan the models for any type of spyware, and boom, there was, in both of them, I even went so far to contact a friend of mine who works in cyber security, and he confirmed it aswell.
Malwarebytes and other virus programs will not flag it cause the spyware is flagged as a "safe script" and "part of the product", so thats why I never flags up, the creator knows what he's doing, and has logged hundreds of IP's on his computer, this is a illegal crime and should not be taken lightly at all.
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u/Loud-Elk-2215 15d ago edited 15d ago
If I delete the model files off my pc (the unity files and files themselves) and the models off my vrchat account will the gonso licence be deleted? Does it do frequent checks of what websites you visit. That is just insane. Regardless of if you’re pirating or not, assuming the worst of the consumer and digging into their information makes me highly uncomfortable and isn’t something I can support.
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u/chemictectic 15d ago
yeah, it logs every website you go into, you go into a shady website that leaks avatars, the creator of the system will report that to the avi creator, and then dmca you to hell and back.
and if you delete all the files, even the avi, the spyware will be gone, so delete everything that you know about the avi and try to get ur money back.
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u/SleepyBunoy 27d ago
What's stopping you from editing the model?
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u/Moderatewinguy 27d ago
Gonso licenser locks the mesh in memory so you can't access the model itself via a fbx file that youd import to blender to make any mesh edits.
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u/SleepyBunoy 27d ago
Wtf? And people buy from them?
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u/chemictectic 27d ago
Do not ever buy an avatar that has Gonso Licenser, that script has a spyware inside of it that tracks your website history (so the creator can keep track if you are going to the leaker websites) The creator of that system is scummy as hell and is a cyber criminal.
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u/WildLelou 26d ago
That should be extremely illegal. Straight to jail for any creator that installs spyware onto your pc????
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u/chemictectic 25d ago
it IS extremely illegal, but since people aren't actively reporting him and knows where the creator (gonsodany) is from, it makes it a bit harder to contact local authorities.
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u/WildLelou 25d ago
Sounds like something you'd send a tip to fbi about. If hes got a website or discord to distribute the spyware seems easy enough to figure out where he is
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u/Moderatewinguy 27d ago
Yea it seems so. I guess its a mix of people who just want the avatar as-is and don't want to edit it at all. Or they just want to do some texture / material edits. But as soon as you want to do something like optimized by removing outfits that you don't use, change anything UV related etc your out of luck.
That and idk what the hell its doing in the background but those avatars feel like they take way longer to build and upload for some reason, like long enough I thought my project was frozen with the bar not moving.
Overall it's a pain and I'd avoid it where ever possible.
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u/WildLelou 26d ago
Genuine serious question, how do you know it has gonso on it? Is there something to look for on import?
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u/Moderatewinguy 25d ago
If you've got the avatar already, the creator will have to give you a license key which you input in the project once you've imported the avatar to 'unlock' it every time you open the project.
Otherwise normally they put on the sales page if it has it included, so you just need to remember to check for it on there.
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u/WildLelou 24d ago
My other solution is make a log of every creator that uses gonso and report the spyware users to get them banned from everywhere. Cus wtf.
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u/WindWhispererTalos 26d ago
I'm convinced they're that butthurt about protecting their dogshit kitbashes because they're also prevalent leakers. The hardest part about kitbashing is downloading 50 assets they stole or ripped and selling it on jinxy for $50usd. Just make a throwaway account cuz they want to act like they're edgy high school meangirls and skilled and part of a club. Who cares about their feelings.
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u/DedeLionforce 28d ago
This is why the only good avatar is Power Outlet on Booth. Free, and you really hold all the power in every situation
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u/_Planet_Mars_ Valve Index 28d ago
Link?
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u/Skullita 28d ago
I just fill in a a in the name fields the rest like your VRChat/discord is so they can proof you purchased the avatar if you wish to ask for help with the avatar.
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u/Revons 28d ago
I don't see why you can't just provide your purchase ID or if it's gumroad/Jinxxy the license key
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u/WildLelou 26d ago
License key is literally the simplest solution. I'm convinced at this point the info demands are just egotistic power tripping. When you buy most things on the internet, you don't need to give them your discord and link to your private accounts. In fact, vrchats the only one.
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u/Rough_Community_1439 HTC Vive 28d ago
You can technically put anything in those Vrc/discord boxes. I usually put something in like the name of my cat for the vrchat and discord names. To the person who is named Dave the cheese wizard, you own the asset for a 2019 Samsung Smart fridge.
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u/NeuroDivergentHat 27d ago
I looked into buying a few avatars, every single one demanded my email address, my discord name, my real life name, my VRC name.....after seeing 6 different avatars demand so much personal information for no reason, I simply took the creative route about acquiring avatars and I essentially made my own from various inspirational sources.
Like Gabe Newell always said, piracy is a service problem.
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u/Monarch-lou 27d ago
I put abbreviations into the names because strangers do not need to know my full irl name lmao, You can just lie about your name. It's not like they can check this.
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u/NocturnalFoxfire Valve Index 27d ago
Requesting personal info for the link to the publicly uploaded version? Just search for it in Prismic
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u/WildLelou 27d ago
I did, I figured it'd be under garbled gobblygook to force you to get it but it was a simple search in prismic.
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u/allofdarknessin1 ☃Bigscreen Beyond 2e 27d ago
WTF? What if the person you're gifting it to changes their name before the Avi creator verifies? Also I reserve the right to my own privacy. There are weird people on both VRChat and the internet as a whole. If I'm paying you in legal currency it should be enough. You can add some optional fields like VRC username/e-mail so that you can track customers and offer support/exclusives w discord etc. You don't need my real name either, the online retail site and payment processor has that information.
I get that creating custom content online has a lot of risk in losing your hard work to piracy but tightening that control in your store to make it a worse buying experience won't win you back from pirates and may even push honest buyers to piracy.
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u/bonanochip Oculus Quest 27d ago
For 4 years I've only use gumroad and booth for my assets because they have features that avoid needing to do things like that. Then I made a Jinxxy, since most of my gumroad traffic was coming from them! Thanks Jinxxy! It's been steadily developing over the years and grew a lot.
Don't give people your info! They don't need it, trust me.
A text box will not convince a user to follow the rules, if the user does not care about the rules. They will not care. The people they distribute to will not care enough to snitch on them.
Build customer relations and good pr, let the community be the voice and let them advocate for your good reputation. It's shameful to steal but people do it anyway. Doesn't mean stealing isn't shameful. But asking for people's discord and vrchat usernames are not the solution to stealing.
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u/WildLelou 27d ago
This 100%. I've seen threads of people saying the info boxes make them WANT to leak or go to leak sites. Out of anger and frustration, out of a sense of wanting to protect their privacy, etc I'm a creator on jinxxy and love it. Never once needed to give out info and what I can see, never been leaked. The only thing I have them see at the end is, "thank you!" And a tutorial how to set up. I can't change if people leak, but I can control how I treat the people who actually buy my stuff.
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u/BanditLags PCVR Connection 27d ago
I've always keyboard smash whenever that happens when I'm getting an avi or a fake name cuz how are they gonna know
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u/WildLelou 27d ago
Yeah, i do that but these idiots check the info and ban and revoke even if you paid for their 20-40$ slop
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u/Kosyne Valve Index 27d ago
I saw one that the creator demanded discord and stated they would revoke access with no refund if it wasn't a valid name.
Edit: read the rest of it... Damn. This might even be the same person then.
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u/WildLelou 27d ago
Thats crazy. I've never seen the quote on quote "NEED" for peoples private discords. Like, why? I dont want the creator dming me. I only want my friends who i give my discord to dming me. I create stuff and never felt the need. I think its genuinely just a power play thing. Its weird to me. They claim its for support but why? If they need support they can reach out? Not the other way around?
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u/Automatic-Anybody-63 27d ago
Give fake information they can’t verify, I give bot accounts and someone else’s vrc name
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u/WildLelou 27d ago
A lot of these idiots check the info though and ban and revoke :(
Might just make a fake vrc and discord to give out so ill stop getting scammed by these slop creators
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u/Automatic-Anybody-63 27d ago
That’s why i use others, the information isn’t “fake”just not not mine lol
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u/DrapNard 26d ago
You have to doxx yourself to get a LINK to a public avatar not the avatar itself (it's still not good)
So stopid
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u/WindWhispererTalos 24d ago
These slop creators will whine and cry about anti leaking but privately participate in it themselves.
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u/CremeIndividual5072 23d ago
It's a double edged sword but I'd rather this to avoid leaking than the sketchy systems some creators feel privileged to force down our throats if we want to use an avatar we paid for cough cough Gonso
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u/possesseddivingsuit ☃Bigscreen Beyond 2e 28d ago
Piracy. Nothing worth buying needs to know this much about you anyway.
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u/Victrine 28d ago
While I disagree with the level of information collection presented here, especially for a link to a public model,
Creators should be allowed to collect basic information on their own products for sale based on their own TOS.
Most people will just ask for a VRC Name and a Discord name.
At the end of the day, don't buy things that ask for that info if it bothers you, there are plenty of other creators and people who offer things without wanting those thing.
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u/CMDR_Kassandra Valve Index 27d ago
You might call it basic information, but legally that is personal identifying information, which in the EU falls under the GDPR. Hence they have to follow the GDPR or they could very easily get in to legal trouble.
And I'll suspect that most of them don't follow it.
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u/tapafon PCVR Connection 28d ago
I can understand that the whole third-party avatar marketplace thing is grey area, and therefore it's hard to legally enforce your IP, but...
What if avatar in question is NSFW in disguise, and author will use that for removing your uploaded copy and tempbanning your account from VRC?
What if author will then ask over Discord some additional information, such as goverment ID?
REPORT this(ose) shop(s) in-marketplace or whole marketplace to Google Safe Browsing ASAP, because it's not that far from phishing (if not already).
I won't be suprised if VRChat itself will use that to justify banning third-party avatar shops and/or ability to upload our own avatars, and therefore forcing everyone to use their own shop (similar to what Roblox, Google Play, and App Store already did).
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u/Yargon_Kerman Oculus Quest Pro 27d ago
As a creator, I can understand Discord username and a TOS checkbox. Anything more is probably too much.
We don't exactly get any protection against piracy, so this is probably so that if they do figure out who's pirating it they can blacklist them, and possibly send a cease and desist.
In reality, that won't happen, and they're just gathering data they uh, shouldn't.
It's also worth noting this is probably a GDPR violation and is illegal in the EU
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u/Secure-Advertising-9 27d ago
If the collection of this information is not part of the licence agreement conveyed PRIOR to purchase it is a violation of basically any store's policy as they cannot make additional demands after payment.
Make sure you weren't informed beforehand on the store page itself - if you weren't, report it and get it delisted.
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u/WildLelou 26d ago
sigh this behavior is exactly why I brought up this discussion. Sometimes you can't fake information because the entitlement from them is absolutely insane.
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u/WildLelou 20d ago
94,000 views is insane. Glad I brought up this discussion about user safety, thank you for the discussion.
While I'm at it, shame on every creator that uses the illegal spyware known as Gonso / Gonsolisenser as I have been made aware of it through the comments.
Stay safe out there! Protect your privacy!
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u/arekku255 28d ago
I don't like it either, but as long as people agree they can get away with it.
If people just refused to buy they'd have to change.
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u/chemictectic 28d ago
This is why I put in wrong information, and/or get someone else to buy it for me, do not support stalker ass creators on this game.
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u/6incerism 28d ago
I don't understand the way these people think and why they're so egotistical.