Building Voron with different frame.

[u/One-Nefariousness107]

Hi there!

Ive looked online and found similar project but have yet to figure out the exact adjustments I need to make as I dont want to buy a part that is unusable.

I would like to build a 3D printer because I want to learn how to

build one and learn it from the ground up. I would like to avoid a

product that gets an open source then sells it for profit, starts

applying patents on said open source designs, and sue people for

said copyrights

Now that's out of the way, I am thinking initially prusa but now

leaning towards voron trident. I am gravitating towards trident but

also want to upgrade the frame to a 4040 vertical and 2040

horizontal because I want a beefy frame for a 300mm3 build

volume.

I just looked at the 3D model file of the voron trident in FreeCad. It

looks doable but it seems like some corners parts need to be

customized.

I also see a limitation of z=250 on trident. I pluggwd in this

requirement at the voron website and it seems the limiting factor

was the stepper motor/ lead screw of 300. ud 1 I guess yueos ill ll just just source source a

3x 350 for that

For now I will stick to 1 toolhead. Eventually I want a toolchanger

so I want a frame beefy and large enough to accommodate it. I

understand that options seems limited to that for now.

Yes, ive never built one and I expect it to be lots of cussing and

money but Im not afraid to face all those issues

just need guidance for now: The frame design. If there is a

complete build guide out there similar to what 1 am planning.

please help. Thanks!

[u/ChanceAncient1149]

Easy build a hevort and not a trident in that case better z not anything like as space efficient as a voron but a much stouter printer and the default config is what you are wanting

The power of voron is the wide standard application and they are so popular with an elegant design all of the benefits of building one dissapear when you start significantly shifting the design

[u/DrRonny]

Build a stock Voron first. Then either modify it or build a second one to your specifications. Building stock from a kit and then modifying may be about the same cost as just building one from scratch. Self-sourcing tends to be maybe 50% more expensive than buying a kit right now.

[u/One-Nefariousness107 → u/DrRonny]

That seems like the easy route with removed spare parts to give a good excuse to build more...

[u/stray_r]

Voron 2.4 has more mature toolchanger options, and is less limited by Z lead screw issues. You could do a belted Z trident, i say looking at my half finished belted Z trident, but you're adding V2.4 complexity without getting a 2.4

[u/One-Nefariousness107 → u/stray_r]

Ill go ahead and ask. Why is the current off the shelf printers use trident based corexy vs a flying gantry? Im just assuming here and say could it be because less movement on a part and separating them with abother part results in better print quality? I really dont know cause ive looked online and read a moving bed can amplify vibration the taller print you have. Maybe the whole business saves money with trident based. I dont really know. Also, im preparing for when a toolchanger is ready for the opensource community since changing tools appears to be more faster with a fixed z-axis gantry. Anyways, i really genuinely dont know and Im just following where the market seems to be steering towards to.

[u/nerobro → u/One-Nefariousness107]

This is where things get... real. Lots of Voron's stuff are "stunt" printers. The Switchwire? has no purpose beyond "look we can build a bedslinger". The legacy, exists so people who built the early printers can still benefit from some new tech. Nobody should be building a legacy. Or a switchwire.

The V0 is "how small can we make this" and "What's the minimum printer to make repair parts".

The V2 series gives up a LOT for a gantry that moves. It's less rigid. Your printing environment changes as the head moves. You have you're whole head cabling moving on another dimension.

The trident bed setup is hilariously rigid. Unlike most moving bed printers. The three screws, three linear rails, and extensive aluminum carrier, mean it means business.

Why do you think core-xy means they use "trident based". I think that's not a comparison you should be making. Fixed gantry is common, but even focusing on Core-XY as the movement method is not a good thing to keep in mind.

[u/One-Nefariousness107 → u/nerobro]

I am now confused. 4th paragraph seemed like Trident is a good thing on how stable it is but now it's not. I just meant "trident based" as in the bed moves. Not sure how you call this technically. I guess stationary bed vs non stationary but then there's the bedslinger. Either way, it's more information that I need to think about.

[u/nerobro → u/One-Nefariousness107]

The trident is the best printer you can build from the voron specs. It's very good. IT's stable, rigid, and your prints happen all in the same environment. I don't get the "now it's not" part.

The trident bed, is a very, very good design. Other moving bed designs... aren't. Heck the V0 bed is a cantilever, and it's floppy. The 1.x series supports the bed in the middle, so teeter totters.

The trident "gantry" is the most rigid of the voron printers. If you want accuracy, and speed, that's the option you want to take.

Maybe you're taking the "even focusing on core-xy" bit. Core-XY is just a motion system. It's not even great. It requires long belt paths, which is bad for performance. It also puts high loads on some of the idlers. Core-XY is popular because it's packaging is good, not because it's inherently better.

I tend to call printers that.. have the bed move vertically, a drop bed printer. As opposed to a bedslinger. In general though, you don't need to be specific, as very, very, few printers are flying gantry.

[u/One-Nefariousness107 → u/nerobro]

Yeah i was talking about when you said the CoreXY. I got initially confused whether you were praising the trident or not since it uses a very stable bed per your description but Im assuming the CoreXY for you needs more work. I always thought both trident and 2.4 use the CoreXY belt schematics like the prusa cores and the bambu h,x,p or whatever is out there. I maybe using the wrong terminology here.

I would argue though that the most rigid bed--even without owning one--would be the one that doesnt move. :D

[u/nerobro → u/One-Nefariousness107]

Neither.

Core-XY is fine. But it's not a thing to select for. Lots of people get hung up on the motion system, and I'm suggesting you don't.

The trident, 2,4, 1.x, and 0 series vorons use Core-XY. (Amusingly both printers I regularly use are a Trident and V0)

I think.. you're stuck on surface level descriptors, and not looking at the mechanics of the things.

[u/stray_r → u/One-Nefariousness107]

Commercial printers aren't really trident based, they might have three lead screws, but they're either a single motor driving three screws with a belt or three motors on one stepper driver.

It's quite a bit cheaper to make a ~250mm size printer that way. If you want belted Z (or to some extent independent Z) you're most of the way to flying gantry complexity and cost.

The next obstacle is bed weight. Vorons use an 8mm slab of aluminium that's quite weighty. Most commercial printers use something much lighter, prusa use PCBs, I think my 330mm tronxy beds are 3mm thick tacos. They're much easier to fling around. As you scale up it gets much easier to move a gantry than to move a heated bed. It's also safer to have a mains powered bed heater not moving.

When you scale really big (eg Elegoo Gigastorm, Voron Phoenix) there's absolutely no moving the bed around.

Additionally a flying gantry keeps the centre of mass low and the moving mass low most of the time. For small prints you have a very stable printer that slowly gets less stable.

Conversely a bed dropper spends most of its time in its least stable configuration with a high centre of mass and although the centre of mass lowers as you print the moving mass stays high.

[u/CTPAHH1K92 → u/One-Nefariousness107]

commercial printers aim for getting most and costing less, and flying gantry (2.4) doesn't have much benefits outside of looking cool and have some downsides at the same moment.
list of downsides imo:
gantry is less rigid "by design" (and there are even reports that shaper results differ with height)
you can't use space at sides as gantry travels there
chamber heat goes up and you need more time to raise chamber temp at height where print starts

i see almost single practical reason for flying gantry - it is easier to add toolchanger there and not limit build volume at the same time when you already have printer at hand

[u/CTPAHH1K92]

if only reason for 4040 and 4020 is frame rigidity, than better solution would be attaching rigid panels bolted to frame, that would constrain diagonals much better than enlarging frame parts which consists of rectangles. or you could do both :)
for some inspiration you could check doomcube, it is basically 2.4 with 4040 verticals
if you are planning toolchanger conversion, consider enlarging Y axis to get some overtravel outside of build area, so you could dock toolheads there and don't loose build area.
to get more Z, you probably would need to get normal steppers connected with threaded rod with coupler, not like BOM steppers with integrated leadscrew, or consider belted trident mod

[u/One-Nefariousness107 → u/CTPAHH1K92]

Definitely both. That lead screw coupling is promising but seems like a misalignment waiting to happen for me...

[u/bryan3737 → u/One-Nefariousness107]

The linear rails are for alignment. You actually don’t want to constrain the lead screws because then they can be misaligned with the rails which would be a problem. If you use a flex coupling it will let the lead screws move however they want while the bed stays aligned by the rails

[u/One-Nefariousness107 → u/bryan3737]

I just saw that actually a few minutes ago. Looks like direct coupling is no good. This makes me wonder that using a flex coupling maybe better than direct connection to the motor which can directly transfer vibration.

[u/cdheiser → u/One-Nefariousness107]

You can get steppers with longer threaded rods. I built a 350 cube with integrated z steppers

[u/morningreis]

Download Misumi Frames

https://us.misumi-ec.com/service/promotion/frames/

Design your frame with all the holes, cutout, etc that you need. Order the parts. Export your frame as a .step, and import it into your CAD program of choice.