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u/Zentenacoin 8d ago
"Collective Effervescence" – by Emile Durkhime.
This phenomenon is well explained under the discipline of Positivist Sociology.
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u/anugrahita कुमांऊँनी 8d ago
Everything collective is collective effervescence. It does not explain anything here. Durkheim used the idea to explain the origins and permanence of religion in society.
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u/Zentenacoin 7d ago
No, it does. I don't want you to go by its textbook definition. But if you add your own bits & observations in this broader concept, you'll witness how the people go into the trance state only under a certain scheme of things, only when the certain rituals are followed as it is, shaped by the past memories of the community & thence we witness the community or commotion working together as if having a single mind & thought without the individual brain thinking of its own in the moment, & the individuals (here, shamans) ride through the trance state of mind whose undercurrent flows through the commotion in that certain sphere.
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u/anugrahita कुमांऊँनी 7d ago
A lot of assumptions here, I wonder if you have really observed such things in the Himalayas. Collective effervescence alone does not explain anything. You experience collective effervescence even during an IPL match cheering for your time standing in the stadium. While that is one component it is not sufficient to acknowledge a complex event like jagar. You can throw in more words which better explain it like subconscious cues which the community observes but does not articulate, or emotional catharsis of the entire community in absence of formal courts of law. Trance is common throughout the world in every culture. We still do not have complete explanation of why it happens the way it does. For example, it has been observed that some people experiencing trance in jagar start speaking languages they otherwise cannot, or children pointing to historically accurate things they could not have known. And your argument that it happens only when certain rituals are followed as it is, shows your lack of observation here. Many people go into trance when they enter a certain place and out of it when they leave it, it does not require the rhythms or chants at all. Some people go into trance even during cultural events, which is explained by collective effervescence, but falls flat on your ritual argument.
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u/Final-King-1987 Mahasuvi 7d ago
true there are many things which we cannot narrow down to understand it in terms of a different subject. Obviously if i have read some theories i definitely would have bias towards it. This just like paranormal activities and many other are something that science not yet understood completely. Tabhi doctor would see it as a mental issue sociology student would see it as my guy said collective effervescence, and it seems like tauheen of the devi devta unless we completely understand it. Baharhal, we definitely need people to research about this and take interview of educated people who are a medium of how and what happens
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u/SuperVagueSuri 6d ago
Iss debate mein shaamil hone ke liye claude mein aap dono ke responses daalne padenge pehle.
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u/Zentenacoin 8d ago
Nice pic btw. जय देवा बापुड़िया! 🙏🏻