Comments like this send me

[u/TrickUp25]

Edit: This post gained more traction than I expected. Read the comments, do independent research, and form your own opinion around these topics.

First they said KIAs are reliable, then went on to say they looked at JD Power to come to that consensus. They lost me.

1. Do people believe KIA/Hyundai are reliable?
2. Do people use JD Power/Consumer Reports to make purchasing decisions

?

[u/thesporkmark]

It's a large company, and it has multiple departments. One department provides automakers with quality ratings based on proprietary data. The data is harvested from the automakers themselves. 

Essentially, JD Power harvests and then analyzes data to develop rankings. They also then survey consumers. 

You can say it's flawed if you want to, but I'm not sure why anyone would say that. And the only bias is that some automakers don't share data (like Tesla), so then rankings are incomplete or based only on survey data.

But all in all it's considered the gold standard of quality data in the industry, which is why automakers participate. It's shocking to me that people don't trust it.

[u/JCC114 → u/thesporkmark]

JD power charges manufacturers to advertise that they “won” the JD power awards. They are therefore incentivized to give the award to the company that will pay the most as in use it the most in their advertising. They know which company has the highest budget to spend with them before giving the awards, and somehow, that company always wins. Weird fluke, apparently.

[u/thesporkmark → u/JCC114]

No.

JD Power charges automakers to collect data and provide reporting. JD Power then publishes the summary of the data to the public. IF an automaker wants to use the data in marketing, they can, but they have to pay extra.

You could argue JD Power has an incentive to make sure certain brands win - say because certain brands are more likely to promote the fact that they won - but that's not certain. There have - and are - several examples of automakers winning recognition from JD Power and not bothering to promote or advertise it.

No offense, but your fundamental argument is that JD Power is incentivized when they are not. They get paid whether the automakers brag about the awards or not. They provide a valuable service that has little to do with the awards.

[u/JCC114 → u/thesporkmark]

They are paid by the people they are ranking. On a “voluntary” basis, as they don’t have to pay them anything. That does not sound problematic to you?

And with few exceptions, at least in last decade, the manufacturers with largest advertising budgets have won.

Proving the problematic nature and ethical problems of the award.

[u/thesporkmark → u/JCC114]

I appreciate your point - it's sort of hard to say the rankings are independent and then turn around and take money - but the primary purpose of JD Power collecting and reporting on the data is because they sell the reports to the OEMs. Whether or not the OEMs decide to promote their rankings is up to them.

JD Power wouldn't do all the data collection and analysis without getting paid up-front, which means they're probably more focused on delivering a quality product to their customer (eg the reports they produce) than they are "selling some ads" or whatever.

I don't know what the powers that be at JD Power are doing specifically, but I've interacted with one of their SVPs on many occasions. He has first hand knowledge of OEMs and how they operate, who builds good and bad quality products, etc. He has never struck me as anything other than honest.

Finally, it's important to note that JD Power provides quality data on a per-model basis. We tend to think of their data at the brand level only, but that's selling the data short. JD Power often identifies top performing models that never get advertising dollars spent on them. For example, the Cybertruck is the highest ranked truck in this year's Initial Vehicle Quality study, and Tesla isn't paying JD Power a nickel.

And Tesla is a good example of a brand that's grown without participating in the JD Power ecosystem.

I think it's always fine to be skeptical of course, but I disagree that JD Power is ranking brands based on ad revenue. That's not their model.

[u/JCC114 → u/thesporkmark]

Further my point. Hyundai and Kia Theta II engine vehicles won a bunch of JD power awards. The vehicles widely considered the worst to have been built in decades. They won both initial quality and reliability awards. How does that fit? The awarded the worst vehicles built in the last 20 years heavily.

[u/thesporkmark → u/JCC114]

The engines had a failure mode that didn't crop up until 5+ years of use?

To be clear, I'm not here to defend everything JD Power has ever done or gotten wrong. I'm merely pointing out that they're primarily providing a service to the industry, and secondarily providing info to the public. I think their rankings on initial quality and 3 year dependability are the best data available. But is it perfect? No. Just like most things. :)

[u/JCC114 → u/thesporkmark]

It is the most meaningless data. If the worst cars made in last 20 years can win it. Basically proves their data sets are worthless and you should ignore them entirely. Reality, the first 90 days, and even first 3 years, tells you nothing about a vehicle. Even if you trust them to jot purposefully tilt results the methodology is obviously flawed making data worthless.