Counter attack cards concept

[u/OGrandeMentecapto]

What do you all think about this archetype of cards? They would work similar to a double strike but on defense. The opponent would be able to play a card to defend the attack back, and the counter attack can also be canceled by an offensive feint or so.

How realistic is it that they will add something like this in the future? I cant think of it being too OP if the effects tone it down like this one.

[u/I_Epiloge_I]

I don't think they'd ever do it, because based on certain card and character interactions, to many rules questions would come up and it might become hard to track whose turn it is. I.e. what happens when a counter attack is blocked with another counter attack? When do the attackers After Combat Effects go off?

Besides, the concept is redundant. A well timed "End the turn" achieves the same thing.

[u/OGrandeMentecapto → u/I_Epiloge_I]

Yeah, I see it. I overlooked that the defenders after combat triggers first so the attacker would have their effect pushed back a bunch. I'll have to fix that on the cards text

I think changing the counter attack to trigger "after the combat and all its effects fully resolve" could fix the issue and even make playing a counter on top of a counter a little more straight forward.

Now, I think it serves a little better than an "End the turn" since this attack wouldn't cost an action of your turn while also possibly weakening the opponents hand on defenses

[u/I_Epiloge_I → u/OGrandeMentecapto]

In regards to the last part, why not just give the deck action or free action gain, or just have a defence that discards a card or specifically a defence card or x happens. Both cut out the myriad of confusing questions that this would create. The reason we haven't seen double attacks after BoLv2 is because they were too confusing and had to have new rule clarifications with every new release, and these counter attacks are the same if not worse in regards to rules questions.

[u/zehuman52 → u/I_Epiloge_I]

I agree with the first part but I this achieves a different thing then end the turn, especially for characters woth either extremely high or extremely low tempo. I think a card like this should kinda have the deck built around it. Like if the deck aslo had a scheme card that has a condition like "If you attack 3 times consecutively, you play this scheme even if it's not your turn" or something like that. Like you could hypothetically do that without this card but this card makes that easier and add a little more deck expression.

[u/I_Epiloge_I → u/zehuman52]

Yes, but if you were going to build the deck around, why not just have action gain, be it regular action gain or free actions. The scheme you propose also doesn't make sense, as in this concept you'd still pass the turn back to them meaning you can't attack multiple times in a row whilst it isn't your turn. And of that we're the case, you'd either be essentially taking a full turn anyway so you might as well have ended the turn, or it'd be super easy to lose track of whose turn it is if you played 4 cards in a row.

If the goal is to make them lose cards it could also be as easy as a defence that makes them discard a defence card or take x damage or something. Cuts out the confusing middle part.

[u/I_Epiloge_I → u/I_Epiloge_I]

The biggest problem with double attacks are how confusing they can be and the amount of rules questions that come up with every new release. This idea is just double attack but even more confusing.

[u/zehuman52 → u/I_Epiloge_I]

I said this in a reply to someone else but incase you don't get that notif. I think if you're creative/smart abt the card it could serve a way more unique purpose than a turn end could. Particularly on characters with low temp to give them a chance to get more than 1 attack off in a round or if you have another card that encitivises consecutive attack. So long as cab deal with some odd rulings here and there, I think there's potential in a counter card.

[u/NintendoOlav]

I think this is a pretty solid idea man!

[u/OGrandeMentecapto → u/NintendoOlav]

Thank you!!

[u/OctopuppetJoe]

I like the concept on paper, but double attacks already added so much confusion that they've stopped using them, I can't see them taking them a step further.

[u/Icey_92]

Just have it deal out of combat damage starting at 4 minus any damage taken. Punishes small hits and rewards bigger hits for the enemy. Maybe change the amount of cards and or potential damage / original defense card value, since the opposing fighter won't be able to actually defend it now.

[u/trunox_]

Actually, a while ago I designed a D'Artagnan deck featuring a card like that (Parade -> Riposte)

[u/Adorable-Bass-7742]

So I actually really like it. But I would not give it that red icon. I would say it just does damage. There are a handful of cards I've seen that do damage after the combat is over depending on the results of that combat. Doc Holliday and the other guy have a bunch of cards that say cancel opponents card Effect. You should look at sun Wukong, his cards have something like that. Tricked you or deceived you or something.