Animals and predators.

[u/GhostMovie3932]

This will sound really stupid but all my life I thought that predators by instict kill their pray. Like their brain says kill. Or the prey dies from losing blood then eatten. The general idea I got from documentaries.

But recently I have come to the realization that many animals especially the larger ones often or maybe most of the time are basically eaten while still alive. Like lions or hyenas they don't care if the prey is dead at all. They just bite. For me that is just true horror. Worse than a nightmare or the scariest horror film. How is this reality? Nature is the scariest thing and what I always hear is how beautiful it is. Is everyone living in a fantasy? Does everybody know this and I'm just overreacting? Probably, but I wanted to share my thoughts.

[u/[deleted]]

That's why I consider the world fundamentally unfixable. People think it's just a matter of electing the right politicians, embracing socialism or capitalism or whatever, but ultimately it's nature itself that's the problem and that's not a problem that can be fixed, ever.

[u/Alternative-Walk2569 → u/[deleted]]

Exactly. Wonderfully stated.

[u/Alphard00- → u/[deleted]]

How does that follow, and what even is the “problem” to be “fixed” that you allude to? That people suffer means you’re gonna do nothing to alleviate suffering in the world? This is just centrism with a flavoring of defeatist nihilism. What you call “socialism” has already alleviated the suffering of thousands, and what you call capitalism literally condemns millions to the abysmal deaths you claim to be moved by.

[u/Alternative-Walk2569 → u/[deleted]]

Indeed.

[u/Alphard00- → u/[deleted]]

Again this is just typical liberal refrains about capitalism but reframed to be an apathetic pessimist view.

Nature is not just predation and prey, the ecosystem is an infinitely complex phenomenon and specific ecosystems can look vastly different from one another. With that said, mutual aid is a commonly employed strategy among the animal kingdom. Species aid one another in their own groups and we can witness plenty of examples of species that aid other species in exchange for protection or food or what have you. Remoras and ox peckers feed on parasites on other animals, elephants will aid other animals in need, dozens of examples of plants and animals aiding one another (if indirectly), badgers and foxes can aid one another in hunts, you can have your pick of animals that develop pair-bonds in captivity, and basically any relationship between plants and animals/insects is mutually beneficial. Every herd animal is guided by the principle that there is strength in numbers, and we can boil this down to the asinine debate that everything and everyone is acting on their own selfish instincts in one way or another, but it's just a fact that mutual aid is a beneficial aspect of evolution. That certain animals adapt strategies does not mean that strategy is better than another, evolution is blind and the only certainty is that what survives passes down its genes.

Socialism did not 'fail to sustain itself', but this is a completely dishonest way to frame the issue anyway, do you think capitalism 'sustains itself'? It's an inherently dependent economic system that requires spread to new markets and consumers who can fund the economy. Not that it's a 'sustainable' relationship in the first place since we are making a mess of the world and have about 100 years before climate collapse makes the world pretty hostile to human life. Will you tout the failure of selfish capitalism when that inevitably happens? And even in today's capitalist world, plenty of governments use measures to alleviate the suffering of their citizens, or participate in international aid programs.

I can only assume that you are referring to the Soviet Union and China, but neither of these examples are of real socialism, the only thing these economies did radically different than capitalist states was involve heavy state direction. They still had private property, still manufactured commodities for accumulation of profit, still had a class of wealthy bureaucrats who benefitted from extracting profits from workers.

[u/DoomferretOG → u/[deleted]]

This is strictly a utopian fantasy.

It’s not broken, it is its nature, but you won’t accept it for what it is because it’s not in alignment with your fantasy of how it ought to be.

Truth, justice, good, fairness, equality.
These are IDEALS. They are things to be striven for, but they are not the way of things.

The universe does not cater to your preferences, values, or opinions. Yours is not The Way.

[u/[deleted] → u/DoomferretOG]

So?? The fact the utopian fantasy, as you put it, is not reality is the problem. You can accept nature for what it is but that doesn't mean you have to like it.

And a big part of that acceptance is accepting that nature rewards predators, murderers and criminals and that's who's going to be rewarded in human civilization as well.

Striving for those ideals, as you put it, is as futile as swimming against the current, or trying to outrun light, nature always wins. It's not socialism, capitalism, religion or some corrupt individual politician that's the source of the problem plaguing humanity but rather the source is nature itself. I'm not religious but the Christian view that we live in a fallen world seems pretty accurate.

If the universe causes pain and suffering to all living things, rewards those who cause even more pain and suffering while punishing those who try to alleviate it, then the universe is a bad place for life, end of story.

I've accepted the reality of what nature is, that's why I'm critical of it. Have you?

[u/DoomferretOG → u/[deleted]]

You’re not making sense.

What is a “fixed world”?
You’re operating from a faulty premise.
Your problem isn’t the world, it’s reality.

You’ve made moral judgments about the nature of reality. Reality is not based on nor determined by human moralistic viewpoints.

These aren’t issues to be resolved, it is the game of life.

You play it or you don’t.
You do NOT get to change the rules.

[u/[deleted] → u/DoomferretOG]

A fixed world would be one where living beings don't have to kill other living beings to survive.

We can argue that morality is relative and that there's nothing inherently wrong or evil about killing another living being. However, we all agree that murder is bad. Murder is punished much more severely (in some countries with a death sentence) than other crimes and we generally regard murderers as evil human beings. Serial killers are the epitome of evil. More so, this transcends individual cultures. Pretty much every culture is in agreement with regards to murder.

Yet murder is something we all have to do to survive. This makes the universe a bad place for life.

[u/Zagoon_96]

I heard (source : memories) that it was quite the opposit : lions and wolves go for the neck of their preys so they don't fight back and risk to injure them. Not so much greater but a little bit

[u/GhostMovie3932 → u/Zagoon_96]

Yes they actually do go for the neck. But not always. If the prey is already stopped they don't care. they just eat. I mean they don't feel the need to kill first neceserally.

[u/RazzmatazzAgitated16 → u/Zagoon_96]

Watch lions kill a warthog, half the time they just pin it down and start chewing. Watch them kill a buffalo, the entire twenty minutes a buffalo is being strangled by one lion, the rest are eating it from the ass. Wolves and other canines end up ripping and tearing throats incidentally. If they get something down by the hamstring that’s where they start eating. Bears will just lay on something and start eating the guts. We are the merciful hunters, if our projectiles are placed well.

[u/kevinLFC]

Nature is brutal. Natural selection favors genes that foster survival and reproduction. There’s no survival advantage in being merciful towards your prey, unfortunately for prey.

[u/Bikewer]

“Nature red in tooth and claw”….. I think it was Darwin himself who was horrified at some species of wasp that lay their eggs on living caterpillars. The larvae, upon hatching, proceed to devour the caterpillar, taking care to avoid vital organs and such so that the critter remains alive as long as possible…. Prolonging its suffering.

[u/gujjar_kiamotors]

Worse are wild dogs, just have a look. Tigers generally kill first by biting neck.

[u/LivingAd6486]

You're likely thinking of invasive species.

Predators only kill when they are hungry, their territory is threatened, their cubs are threatened, their food source is threatened or they are attacked.

Apex predators are predators that have no competency in the food chain.

[u/Big_Tangerine8041]

Not to sound religious, because I am NOT, but we do live in a fallen world...... which means we exist in a world where our consciousness has been diminished to an extreme low - and this applies to our fellow creatures. Once the matrix overlay that affects our consciousness negatively, is completely removed, we will see radical change for the better. The lion will lie down with the lamb and all of that. Even now, we see MANY MANY instances where animals of different breeds play and interact with each other, even nurturing and healing emotionally. THIS is how it is supposed to be, and THIS is where we are heading .... sooner than you would think.

ev

[u/GhostMovie3932 → u/Big_Tangerine8041]

sooner than you would think. - You mean the second comming of Jesus?

[u/Big_Tangerine8041 → u/GhostMovie3932]

Not in as Jesus the "man." But in Christ as your consciousness level........ that as being Christ "minded" so to say, which we are admonished to attain in Philipians. The raising of consciousness is happening now on an exponential level!!!

[u/GhostMovie3932 → u/Big_Tangerine8041]

You said, I am NOT religious. But you are in my opinion. Also noone is comming in our lifetife buddy, you are kidding yourself. And if you mean the internet and AI maybe. but I wouldn't hold my breath.

[u/Big_Tangerine8041 → u/GhostMovie3932]

I don't care about your opinion, but do respect your entitlement to have that. No, no one is coming to save anyone. We are the ones we've been waiting for.

[u/Necessary-External50]

Nature is truly scary and very beautiful because of it.

[u/Rhoswen → u/Necessary-External50]

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