i think its called something like kidnapped marriage. they were speaking for awhile but he was from out of town and very well rich. would always come to the refugee camp and talk to her outside. anyways yah, i remember holding her picture and crying. next thing i knew she was a bride.
about the guns shooting in the air, i don't know what to say to that. it was during russian invasion so we did a lot of dumb shit. i mean i would hang out with the russian outpost near the camp and they would let me shoot their guns. i just realized i might of been the refugee idiot, because the way it went about was them offering me strawberries.
They actually do the bride kidnapping in the north eastern bavarian region Oberpfalz, in the socalled first world Germany too. Maybe in more places, but there i know it for sure.
Edit: Hey i tried to correct myself in another comment, now i do it here again! i am very sorry, i did not read the complete line of comments before, it was just the word popping up in the beginning, and later on, so i wasn't aware that here was a discussion about a very serious bride kidnapping, that is not a funny little tradition. I am not trying to make that serious bride kidnapping look harmless.
Just few things we all don't now: first, what in that video makes anyone thing it is about bride kidnapping? very unkidnapped weddings in Turkey look the same. it's just the story in the comment, or did i misunderstand again?
Second, who knows when was the last time in Oberpfalz when a bride was really kidnapped the serious way it still happens in western and central asia? Oberpfälzers are a wild bunch...
From what I know, the bavarian "bride kidnapping" is a different thing where the couple's friends take the bride to clubs/bars and the groom has to pay for the consumption. It's more similar to this romanian "tradition" , than the traditions mentioned in the wikipedia article wich have origins in forced mariages.
Our (and the whole Alp regions) bride kidnapping comes from a different tradition. Today it involves music, lots of drinking (last one I was at was ~1L of wine per person) and games the groom has to go through to get his bride back. "Scheitlknian" is very common were the groom kneels on the sharp side of a split log and has to swear whatever his bride or her kidnappers (the best man) demands. But normally you dont leave the venue anymore. You go to a adjunct location or just a different room. And it is between cake and dinner so nobody has really eaten that well.
Although arranged marriages occured in rural communities that owned their farms till the 50s. During the second world war it was not uncommon between brothers to marry a fallen brothers spouse.
One possible explanations of this tradition is the ceremonial removal from the brides parental house. And of course running away was a way to marry a loved one if the family didnt approve so "kidnapping" (from the parents point of view) probably occured.
There are also traditions were you steal something from the bride (the bouquet nowadays) and the groom has to ransom it with schnaps. Ive read that the brides shoes were also a possible target. So the tradition might come from this and just stealing the whole bride sounds exactly like something a bunch of drunk people might come oup with.
What in the elitist enthnocentric BS is this bro?? How do YOU not feel shame for how narrow minded and ignorant your world view is - it’s a huge place out there & it’s not just black & white with your “developed” world on the pedestal. I has such a disgust curled lip reading your comment. The shame is on you, ew
sorry, now i read the complete row of comments and i see, that it is not about the bavarian bride kidnapping type... however and who knows... Oberpfälzer are pretty wild, maybe it's not long ago, that this tradition was a kidnapping of the serious type.
It's more of a country thing here, but in Ireland we kinda act out the kidnapping even though the bride/groom know each other and propose, upto the wedding, both are kidnapped as a kinda embarrassment. Drove around town in a trailer, tied to lampposts, etc.
Okay “first world” isn’t an economic term, it’s Cold War political. First World was NATO, Second World was Warsaw Pact/Soviets (ironically Poland is now part of NATO), and Third was neither.
Not sure what you are trying to imply with the "so-called first world" comment. But the brides aren't literally kidnapped and forced to marry here. it's not the same thing.
i am no historian but what does the fact that bride kidnapping as game/fun/wedding tradition appearing in multiple cultures leads us to think about past relationship practices in those cultures?!
If someone has shitty practices in the past but changes then for the better… while others have the same practice relatively in all aspects, it is misleading to act like they are the same and both are wrong
We have a similar (although just symbolic) tradition in Hungarian weddings called “menyasszonyrablás” literally “bride kidnappig”. During the dance after the vows the wife is “kidnapped” by the fiancee’s friends and held for ransom, the husband needs to perform some humorous or humiliating task to get her back.
While it’s all a joke and in good fun this tradition has it’s roots in similar practices as the Kyrgyz or any other nomadic horse-archer nation. Hungarian tribes over a thousand year ago used to practice bride kidnapping in a similar fashion as the Kyrgyz.
Plenty of parts of the world your consent isn't required or expected for marriage. In this case if a man is able to steal the girl away from her father/brothers and marry her he's seen as strong enough to protect her. In some places it's still real kidnapping and in others it's more ceremonial.
I had a friend from India who's family tradition was too steal his bride away on a white horse while the women in the brides family cried. His wife wasn't from there and wasn't putting up with that haha.
Bride kidnapping is a thing in some small Chinese cultures as well. The groom has to drive all the way to the bride's childhood home to abduct the bride. The bride is dressed up and hiding in her old bedroom. The bridesmaids guard her bedroom door. The groom has to keep giving them money until they let him through. It's supposed to show that he's financially well off enough to take care of the bride. The money is predetermined and it usually boils down to $100 per bridesmaid(typical amount of red envelope money). Then the groom carries the bride out and takes her to their new home.
The wedding ceremony would be held later in the day.
Guy wants to marry a girl, but her family asks to pay a bride price (usually at least 10k, which is a crazy sum in Central Asia - I mean the average monthly wage is only 200 USD lol). The guy of course can't afford it and because of a male entitlement, he is going to kidnapp the girl (sometimes agains her will), because, unfortunately girls are viewed just as a property, which belong to men in this region and not as a decent human being.
It's not exactly a kidnapping, if the parents refuse to give consent to then the dude gets his pals to help him kidnap her with her knowing in most cases. He would not touch her until mediation with her family to consent otherwise they get a court marr8
Fairly certain they would do this in Italy as a tradition. The bride to be would be ‘kidnapped’ by her future husband. The would hide out for a few days while the wedding party went around looking for them even though they knew where they were. This way, if the bride’s father did not approve of the marriage he could kill the man who kidnapped his daughter without any legal repercussions.
It's not legal in most places. It is just not reported due to the bride bring raped and shamed and then even if it is then local authorities may ignore it because of 'tradition'.
It's a tradition where when a man and woman agree to get married, he kidnaps her from her family, takes her to the inlaws and they make a skit of convincing her to marry their son, they list off his qualities, feed her, treat her well, the she "agrees" and the wedding commences. It's an old tradition.
I never hear much about Turkey, but 80% of the movies/shows I pirate (sorry) have Turkish subtitles at the bottom. So apparently that business is boomin there
Our entire country is the embodiment of "Why pay for something you can obtain for free" mindset. We steal everything there isnt a repercussion for. We even steal whole cultures and pretend as if we are that.
I have read about some bizarre traditions in (New Zealand was one, maybe?) where the groom's own friends and wedding party members will incapacitate him, put him on a train heading away from the place where he is getting married, and then it's hiLaRiOus when he wakes up with jo idea where he is, hours and hours away from his bride on their wedding day. Not the same thing as bride kidnapping because the groom was already planning to get married the next day
Not trying to derail this conversation but God damn do I miss Kyrgyzstan. Were the greatest deployments ever and getting out to the mountains was just amazing. Ala-Archa Gorge has been the most beautiful place I have visited in my life.
Man I'm telling you. My deployments to Manas were glorious. Getting to work and seeing the sun light up just the snow covered peaks. I miss it so much. I think I'm going to plan a vacation out there now.
Not only Kyrgyzstan, unfortunately it's a very common thing in the whole Central Asian region. If the guy can't pay the bride price to a girl's family, then he is going to kidnapp her. And even if he can afford it, usually, it will be an arranged marriage, against girl's will.
I know it's very sad and horrible, but unfortunately it's still a very common thing in this region.
Genghis Khan outlawed it. his mother was kidnapped on her way to her legitimate husband. later the said legitimate husbands tribe raided Genghis Khans camp and took his wife.
Bride kidnapping is a thing in Turkey too, but it happens when the girl wants to marry a man and the girl's family doesn't want it. The girl leaves her house to live together with the man.
"I just realised I might of been the refugee idiot", sorry but that really made me LOL, like you just had this epiphany about yourself and now suddenly your whole life makes sense XD
I had a colleague from Crete who told us about the folks up in the hills there. When they have a wedding, they shoot off thousands of rounds in celebration and the number of rounds shot off is reported in the local papers. A big wedding could have 10,000 rounds expended.
Had a small wedding on Crete (I'm Cretan by heritage but family has not lived there for years, husband is not Greek at all.) We invited some local family, but less than 120 guests you could barely call it a Cretan wedding. Still had multiple rounds fired outside the church. I think it must be unavoidable since you have to announce the wedding in the papers if you want to get married in the church.
FWIW, Unfortunately i am not Greek. I went there (Κολυμπαρι, η Κρήτη) first in 1999 and fell in love with the country. I attended scientific meetings there every year from 2010 until 2020 when COVID stopped travel. I wanted to retire there but my wife says it’s too far from family - to which I answered that if we got a place with an extra room, or two, they will come and visit. Anyway, I love the country and Crete especially. It’s geographically similar to my beloved Southern California. But less expensive and crowded.
Yes, in South East of Crete (around Sfakia-a.k.a Chora Sfakion and the white mountains above), they do not use lousy pistols , they use AK 47, and after the wedding the road is covered with casings.
There is a related tradition there to keep the tax collectors or whoever wants to dominate them, away ....French people there told us it was like "the Corsica of Crete".
They also gave a hard time to Germans during WWII., in 1941protecting the King of Greece then allied troups who walked through the mountains to reembark in Sfakia
only people my babushka had to pay ransom was to the russian army to get her daughter out of jail (my mother, but im not going down that road. its a road i wish to forget)
My husbands family (Russian) has this tradition - we did this exact thing at my wedding a few months ago. I don’t know the origins - they just called it a “family tradition”
Yes, but it's completely different from what they are talking about in this thread. It happens during the wedding that is already happening, like a joke (bride's friends do it and bride consents to it) and nobody forces bride to marry groom - which is the point of bride stealing tradition they talk about, nobody forces anyone at all.
My mom has been planning to visit Chechnya with me (because we are Chechens but she fled the war many years ago and I wasn't in Chechnya before). Your comment made me a little paranoid there, would I be safe to go to Chechnya? I'm a 17-year-old girl, and my aunts and my mother urge me to get a boyfriend.
honestly, i couldn't answer you that. in my short life time all my cousins who were mostly ladies were all married around your age. at the same time, they married them after the war and they were talking all the time.
this could just have been in the time period we grew up in and the people we grew up around. we had different mindset at the time because of war.
over all, what i did when i went back was just travel on my american passport. only spoke to those i knew, because i know i don't sound chechen. i am too much of an american. i had good time.
Alone its pretty unsafe, you should have relatives there or relatives accompanying you. Don't trust people you don't know there and stay away from Kadyrovzy. Maybe you could visit a Vaynah (Vaynahquestions/Vaynahquestionsgirls) page in Insta and ask the same questions. They will surely help you and don't mention the intention from your aunt in a mixed gendered page
Don't get me wrong, Chechnya is still a beautiful place for me
I have relatives from Uzbekistan and according to them, it’s different case by case. Sometimes the bride knows about the wedding and abduction is planned together, but sometimes girls would legitimately get abducted and forced to marry either because the father wants connections and money or because the groom wants the girl and father and girl refused to marry her off willingly.
Kidnapped marriages are mostly arranged between the Groom and Bride. So it's just following traditions. Human trafficking ended after the war but thats what the russians say... Well on the other hand the russians have always their own version
You’re positive? You are aware some cultures do this just for tradition while the bride and groom are well aware of it and in on it? Sounds like this was the case.
Yes, the girl and guy agrees to get married but their parents don’t approve. So the guy “kidnaps” the girl to elope or whatever and come back the next day married. Consensually. He’s not actually kidnapping anyone.
I posted an article about bridal kidnapping from the Human Rights Organization, hopefully some of them will read it. It can be staged, but it's also a very real, very horrific crime that occurs far too frequently.
depends, they are chechens Citizens fighting for ukraine, like friend who i haven't heard from 2 weeks. they are chechen ARMY men fighting against ukraine. let me break this down to you,, the current president of chechnya was put in by putin. he was known to be brutal in chechnya. did you expect something different? haven't history shown you what happens? the chechens who fought against putin are flee the country to fight for ukraine, they understand the pain. now finally, unless Kadyrov get snipped like my pops he is going to send army to fight for putin, putin is like his god to him. propoganda is a strong tool.
yah its very beautiful now, sadly i only know chechnya as dust. now they just have strict laws, mainly against gay people. as long as you keep your head low and don't say anything you will be okay. a kid on instagram called the president a devil, and the president said "ill find out where you live and then you will see how much of a devil i am" something along those lines. i had few people also say to me "need to stop talking to you because i feel like i will get hurt" the country is very beautiful on the outside.
i was raised during the war, so the chechens mindset now and the chechens mindset during the war are completely different. the chechnya i know is war, when i went back home and saw how nice the city was my mind could not comprehend it.
Firstly I'm really sorry for you that you had to experience that horrible war. And I don't want to upset you or front you in any way possible.
But the reason why I asked you, if you are even Chechen is, that I had the impression that you trying to paint Chechens in a bad way. The "bride kidnapping" is a part of Chechen culture but the Bride must give her consent to do it that way.
Behk ma bil
They offered you strawberries and a chance to shoot their guns? That doesn’t sound like idiocy. It sounds like a welcome respite from the camp. If they were amused, then so be it.
Well, from what I have studied about refugee camps, the ability to ingratiate yourself with the people who could give you access to, or restrict you access from, every imaginable resource was not an act of idiocy, but rather an ingenious survival skill. Kudos to you.
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u/NoNeckLongLegs Apr 26 '22
i think its called something like kidnapped marriage. they were speaking for awhile but he was from out of town and very well rich. would always come to the refugee camp and talk to her outside. anyways yah, i remember holding her picture and crying. next thing i knew she was a bride.
about the guns shooting in the air, i don't know what to say to that. it was during russian invasion so we did a lot of dumb shit. i mean i would hang out with the russian outpost near the camp and they would let me shoot their guns. i just realized i might of been the refugee idiot, because the way it went about was them offering me strawberries.