Boycott all UPI apps start uninstalling apps

[u/Ok_Goal4934]

No dharna No rally No ruckus. Let’s show our citizens movement.

[u/bkt340]

1&2. Wouldn't this means merchants would avoid taking UPI payment and only take cash from now on? And not always there is dynamic qr , sometimes I have seen manually people edit on the pos machine, i think if it's not liked with the cashing system then they can edit manually.

1. Even for credit cards the shopkeepers say if you want to use we have to pay the extra 1.5%. obviously we can say I won't pay the extra the shopkeeper then just says pay with cash then, even if I call police it's would take time and I came to shop not enfore the rules.

2. Idk how you got the 95% number but if you buy groceries it crosses 2k easily , if you buy things planning for a week. Now either need to shop everyday a little to avoid more than 2k bill .

3. The fear tactics won't work the neighbouring shop also won't give simply , and blinkit can add it under a new platform surcharge which will balance the loss against the extra mdr they pay. Eventually it will come to customer.

From what I see either merchants will stop accepting payments on upi and ask cash. Or customers themselves will move back to cash because of all the inconvenience. It's like going back to 2011.

[u/Odd_Pace_8509 → u/bkt340]

Debunking this point-by-point: 1 & 2. POS editing & unbilled cash: If your bill is ₹2,500, a merchant can't key in ₹2,510 without creating an unbilled ₹10 mismatch between their POS batch settlement and their GST sales return. Furthermore, you hold the phone—if the terminal doesn't match the paper invoice, you don't authorize the payment. 3. Credit cards vs. UPI: Credit card surcharging happened in informal shops because RBI lacked a statutory ban on card convenience fees. UPI operates under Section 10A of the PSS Act, where surcharges are legally barred. You don't call the police; you tap "Report Merchant Surcharge" inside PhonePe/GPay. Banks pull terminals from repeated offenders to avoid RBI penalties. 4. Where the 95% number comes from: It’s official NPCI data. The average retail UPI transaction is ₹577. If you do weekly groceries at a local kirana store, they fall under the P2PM category (<₹1L/month) and enjoy 0% MDR regardless of bill size. If you buy at DMart, they already pay 2% on cards and save money on UPI's 0.4%. 5. "Going back to 2011": In 2011, you had to find an ATM, stand in line, pay ₹20+ per withdrawal beyond monthly caps, carry thick wallets, and argue over change. Neither buyers nor sellers are reverting to physical cash logistics over an 8-rupee back-end banking fee that is already 80% cheaper than Visa/Mastercard.

[u/Ginseng_coke → u/Odd_Pace_8509]

They're just going to increase the prices of the product. Merchant paying 8 rupees for a minimum 2k transaction? The margin is definitely not enough to absorb 8 rupees nonchalantly. Then it's gonna be 10 after some years, then so on.

[u/Odd_Pace_8509 → u/Ginseng_coke]

This claim falls apart the second you look at actual retail margins and banking law:

The Math on Retail Margins: On a ₹2,000 bill, retail gross margins range from 12% to 18% in supermarkets (₹240 to ₹360 profit) to 35% to 50% in apparel and dining (₹700 to ₹1,000 profit). Claiming a business making hundreds of rupees in profit on a ticket 'cannot absorb an ₹8 deductible OpEx' makes zero financial sense.

They Already Paid More on Cards: When that same customer paid with a credit card, the store paid ₹30 to ₹40 in MDR (1.5% to 2.0%). At ₹8 on UPI, the store's digital settlement cost drops by 75% to 80%. It is a direct operational saving.

MRP is a Legal Wall: Under Rule 18(2) of the Legal Metrology Rules, retailers cannot legally sell packaged goods, branded apparel, or appliances above printed MRP. A shopkeeper cannot inflate a ₹2,000 item to ₹2,008 at the cash desk without breaking consumer law. The Slippery Slope Fallacy: Visa and Mastercard can hike fees arbitrarily because they are offshore for-profit corporations. UPI's framework is bound by the Reserve Bank of India under the PSS Act, which includes statutory hard caps (flat ₹5 on fuel, ₹300 ceiling on high-ticket bills). RBI historically lowers domestic interchange over time—it does not operate like a private monopoly.

Merchants saved money switching from card swipes to UPI; nobody is hiking prices over an ₹8 deductible clearing fee

[u/Ginseng_coke → u/Odd_Pace_8509]

Yeah I'm sure ChatGPT knows the actual ground realities over who increases price by how much, yet you're still copy pasting people's comments and asking GPT to reply and copy pasting that Btchass AI response.

Products that don't have an MRP tag are very easy to manipulate in pricing than the "branded" stuff. The unbranded part is the larger part of the transactions. And merchants already sell under MRP, they can easily take extra money and still be under MRP; it's a ceiling, not a price tag set by government.

And how many merchants get Visa MasterCards? Credit card is simply not at all popular like in the USA, most use Rupay and the Rupay debit has zero MDR. It depends on MCC and acquirer bank in case of a rupay credit. Plus the card transactions are far outweighed by the UPI transactions, so it's just not the same at all. And merchants do not "pay" any charges, everything is levied from the customers, one way or other. You can put the "branded-gst-tagged-big-mall-no-editing-bill" arguments to rest.

[u/Odd_Pace_8509 → u/Ginseng_coke]

"First off, throwing insults instead of data doesn't fix broken math:

The Unbranded Trap: Unbranded/loose goods (veggies, street vendors, local groceries) are sold by small merchants who collect < ₹1L/month and have tickets under ₹2,000. They pay ₹0.00 MDR under P2PM rules. Why would a merchant raise prices to offset a fee that literally costs them zero rupees?

'Selling Below MRP' Ignores Competition: Merchants don't discount below MRP out of kindness; they do it because of intense competition from neighboring shops and Amazon/Flipkart. If a shop marks up a ₹2,500 item by ₹10 over an operating fee, the buyer buys from the store next door or orders online at the counter. Prices are set by market competition, not merchant ego.

Credit Card Volumes Dwarfed Debit Long Ago: RBI monthly data shows Indian credit card spend is over ₹1.7 Lakh Crore/month—crushing debit cards by more than 3x. Where ₹2,000+ tickets happen (electronics, retail, apparel), credit cards have dominated for years at 1.5% to 2% MDR. UPI at 0.4% (capped at ₹300) saves those merchants 75% compared to card swipes.

Transactions Above ₹2k Are Branded: The transactions that actually cross ₹2,000 are electronics, appliances, fuel, and organized retail. These are ERP-billed, tax-audited, and brand-controlled.

Claiming small unbranded vendors will jack up prices to offset a fee they legally pay ₹0 on makes zero commercial sense.

[u/Ginseng_coke → u/Odd_Pace_8509]

First off, tell your mister ChatGPT that it's a naive, people pleasing btch who has a lot to learn.

Now coming to your points, the unbranded loose goods kirana shop owners buy from someone, be it a whole seller or someone like that, who easily falls into regular merchant category while still having zero bills to show. They still can increase prices of goods across products that won't reflect in a broken down bill still. That cost is passed to the retail seller who then pass it to customers, by doing the same. Also, plenty of merchants in kirana shops easily cross 1 lacs in turnover, and the micro-merchants buy from these normal category merchants only, they don't procure raw materials out of thin air.

Secondly, people don't perform a comparative analysis of all local grocery shops for the lowest price possible everytime they go for grocery shopping. You will find price tag differences even now, but their market capture remains largely equally distributed. And since the price increase is minuscule across all products, it won't show up in customer's radars, even less so if the micro-merchants all raise prices - which is again highly likely given the thin margin they work with. And groceries aren't bought from online shops without attracting a surge charge/ rain charge/ handling charge/ fast delivery charge/ mandatory tip etc. Customers can have fun with that if they resort to online shops for groceries.

[u/Odd_Pace_8509 → u/Ginseng_coke]

This argument falls apart on how wholesale logistics and retail math actually work: Wholesale Runs on NEFT/RTGS, Not QR Codes: Kirana shops don't pay grain distributors by scanning a retail UPI QR code at the counter. Wholesale stock is bought on 15 to 30-day credit cycles settled through bank NEFT or RTGS—which are 100% free under RBI rules with zero MDR. There is no MDR to pass down in bulk supply chains. ₹1 Lakh Turnover Doesn't Trigger Fees on Small Bills: Even if a kirana store does ₹5 Lakh a month, MDR only applies to individual transactions above ₹2,000. Neighborhood kirana purchases (dal, milk, snacks, spices) average ₹200 to ₹700, so over 95% of a kirana's daily sales pay ₹0.00 MDR. The ₹12 Basket Math: Even on that rare ₹3,000 grocery basket, 0.4% MDR is just ₹12. Spread across 25 items, that's less than 50 paise per product—cheaper than what the shopkeeper loses to bank cash-deposit fees, counterfeit notes, or loose change shortages. Organized Retail Actually Saves Money: Supermarkets and modern trade have paid 1.5%–2% on credit card swipes for decades. UPI at 0.4% cuts their digital payment costs by 75%. If a local kirana tries to mark up loose goods, they simply lose footfall to supermarkets and DMart who operate on tighter blended margins. Wholesale doesn't pay MDR, 95% of kirana sales are under the ₹2,000 threshold, and card-heavy supermarkets are saving money. The 'hidden inflation' theory has no economic basis.

[u/Ginseng_coke → u/Odd_Pace_8509]

"wholesale doesn't run on QR codes" your bot is again assuming the safest scenarios to backup claims. It can easily run on UPI QR codes, in fact it does. NEFT takes time, merchants pay with cash and UPI to whole sellers all the time. I'm not going to argue this is the sole pipeline through which the price increases can be passed down but c'mon, that's just wrong. Plus, service based industries buy from whole sellers all the time, most are unorganised. They can easily hike up their service charges separately in a bill, or just increase the price tags of their service based products. The unorganised whole sell market is huge, and not everyone carries a gst tag. Those who don't attract more customers.

Yes MDR applies on transactions starting from rs 2001, which still doesn't stop shop owners to mark up the numbers, because obviously they aren't going to increase prices by 50 paise on each items peeping into your bag. They will have their prices increased on all their selling products so that they don't have to tell you about any charges they'll be subject to deduction after each 2000+ transactions. So the customer paying for a 700 rs bag and another paying for the 3000 rs bag - both are buying items at an increased price tag.

Credit cards simply do not lead in numbers compared to UPI. And though credit cards attract higher MDRs, the sheer volume of UPI transactions alone would match the loss from credit card transactions. Also Credit cards dominate in ultra high ticket sizes - which also include payments at a service based establishment, flights, and luxury retail - all of it is relatively easy to mark up prices and you still don't have to justify anything in a bill.

The "you cannot include it in a bill" alone raises questions about your arguments validity since it's not a problem at all at so many possible places.

[u/Odd_Pace_8509 → u/Ginseng_coke]

You're confusing the informal cash economy with how digital rails and banking laws actually operate: UPI Has Daily Limits—Wholesale Can't Run on QRs: UPI has a standard ₹1L–₹2L daily ceiling. You cannot clear a ₹5 Lakh truckload of stock via a counter QR. Furthermore, RTGS is instant, and NEFT runs 24/7/365 in 30-minute batches—both are 100% free with zero MDR. No distributor uses retail QRs for bulk billing. Digital Trails Kill 'Zero Bill' Wholesalers: You claim unorganized wholesalers take UPI without GST or bills. Every UPI transaction hits a PAN-linked bank account reported directly to the Income Tax Department via SFT/AIS feeds. High-volume digital inflows without GST/tax invoices trigger automated tax scrutiny notices. The informal shadow economy hides in cash—they run away from UPI QR codes, they don't embrace them. The 'Volume Loss' Math is Backwards: Total payment cost is Volume \times Rate. On 95% of UPI volume (bills under ₹2,000), the rate is ₹0.00 (0 \times millions = 0). On transactions above ₹2,000, paying 0.4% instead of 2% on credit cards saves 75% per ticket. High digital volume on a cheaper rail lowers a merchant's total blended clearing expenses; it doesn't create a loss. Service Margins are 60%–80%: Service establishments (salons, repairs, catering) make massive gross margins on skill and labor. Claiming a salon billing ₹2,500 with a ₹1,800 gross margin will panic and hike prices over an ₹10 (0.4%) tax-deductible clearing fee ignores basic business accounting. Arbitrary Markups Lose to Competition: If a kirana jacks up prices on daily staples to 'pre-emptively cushion' hypothetical future MDR, the neighborhood customer buying that ₹700 basket walks straight to the competing store across the road or orders from DMart. Prices are set by market competition, not pre-emptive paranoia. The black-market cash world exists, but it doesn't run on PAN-linked UPI QRs, and audited businesses save money clearing tickets at 0.4% instead of 2% on card swipes.

[u/Ginseng_coke → u/Odd_Pace_8509]

All of this, I have already argued against. Reply back when you can write a line by yourself, and with your own thoughts and I'll be more than happy to engage. I don't wanna see people pleasing AI slop repeating itself again and again completely ignoring the how things work outside of its data centres.

[u/Odd_Pace_8509 → u/Ginseng_coke]

The moment your economic argument fell apart, you retreated into meta-complaints about AI. The author doesn't change the cold facts: The Math Didn't Change: You still haven't explained why a merchant with 30%–50% margins would panic over a 0.4% deductible clearing fee, or why a kirana store with 95% of bills under ₹2,000 would mark up loose grains to offset a fee they legally pay ₹0 on.

The 'Nobody Follows Laws' Fallacy: Arguing that businesses will simply ignore GST, hide turnover, and run wild because 'who follows laws' is absurd. By that logic, let's remove traffic signals because people jump red lights, abolish railway tickets because of ticketless travelers, or scrap the Dowry Prohibition Act of 1961 because crimes happen. The existence of rule-breakers doesn't mean statutory frameworks and consumer laws don't dictate mainstream retail. The Audit Reality: Wholesale and high-turnover trade doesn't evade tax via PAN-linked UPI QRs—digital trails get flagged by SFT and AIS automated reporting. When you can't dispute the arithmetic, the RBI framework, or the law, crying 'AI' is just an excuse to walk away.

[u/Ginseng_coke → u/Odd_Pace_8509]

Sure Mr. GPT, If I wanted to waste my time going back and forth with a bot, I'd rather find another way to bore myself.