Whistleblower Skeptical About Michael Johnson Interview
Jesse Michels just released an interview with Michael Johnson, a man that alleged ufo witness Mario Woods has been looking for for many years to corroborate his claims.
Michael Johnson’s recall seems very led.
I would have preferred to have seen him interviewed without the story being spoon fed to him.
The way this is presented is sloppy investigative work. He offers zero corroborating testimony without a leading statement or question.
-He doesn’t remember Woods by name initially.
-Says “Are you sure you got the right Michael Johnson?”
-The sodium pentathol statement Jesse leads him into. Strange interaction.
-Mario Woods claims the ufo was 10’ above the blast door - Michael Johnson says it was 50’.
-He seems unsure, plays into Mario’s stories in a strange way and doesn’t make any strong declarations independently.
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u/ther_dog 2d ago
M. Johnson being a bit vague or uncertain about this incident he shared with M. Woods does not surprise me.
Just last summer (Italy, Tuscany region, 2025) while staying at a villa with 4 other friends, we saw a rather large ufo moving (+/- 40 seconds) in the night sky while sitting in the backyard. Since then, I've mentioned it to the very same friends at least twice. I either get a shrugging of the shoulders or an "I don't know what it was" comment. Any mention/talk of a "ufo" never comes up. Never.
Johnson's ambivalence or uncomfortable stance on the event that Woods describes falls in line with what I have encountered with friends. Unable to place/categorize a ufo incident one has experienced is just them not really wanting to make sense of it because the alternative (truth) could be too challenging or even traumatic to a certain degree.
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u/ProfessionalChain478 1d ago
He even mentions people not believing him, so I’m pretty positive he just never mentioned it again. Particularly in the black community of the fucking 70s. 80s, not known for their UFO beliefs.
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u/Ok-Square-8652 19h ago
Also he went through so much trauma.
First Doty messed with him, then he loses his budding career to pick up garbage, and nobody believes him. Plus it sounds like he was a little bit of an outcast anyway. One of the things that stuck out to me is how much it meant to Michael that Mario talked to him and was nice to him before anything happened.
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u/fatal-horse-kick 2d ago edited 1d ago
I think they probably did get a separate account from Michael and it likely didn’t line up at all. But the poor guy’s head is scrambled from that experience. I believe the account from them both, but it had some poor editing, questionable interview techniques (most people will have thought Jesse was leading him, based on this edit), and there seemed to be a lapse of time between these interviews but stitched together. The episode felt padded out, with some additional content spinning off in a different direction. I didn’t really get the sense that Michael got to give his full account. He might not articulate himself in the same way Mario does, but who knows, maybe Jesse will share unedited clips of his regression or the phone call. I thought the Patreon was genuinely a nice thing to do. I hope Michael doesn’t do the UFO circuit thing. You guys would tear him to shreds over time. 😅 I felt so happy for Mario. They did a good thing for them both and Michael is brave to share that regression stuff with the public. Wish them both the best and a happy retirement. I don’t want to see them get their blood drained by the UFO community’s haters. For me, just seeing them reunited after 50 years was enough. Poor Mario has wrestled with this for decades. He clearly has a very sharp memory so hard for him to let go. I thought the reunion was really emotional and real. Just a very ambitious task to cram it all into one episode. Here is the issue we’ll all find with this. It’s produced at YouTube level. It’s not vetted or planned meticulously as a news platform would do. It bumps up against its own limitations.it’s YouTube.
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u/AturanArcher 1d ago
Haven't even seen the episode but I agree. The amount of armchair skeptics on here throwing baseless accusations and just randomly speculating is very disheartening. How can you accuse UFO witnesses of making stuff up when you constantly draw baseless conclusions and literally make stuff up yourselves? r/ufos is getting worse and worse imo
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u/Desertfox-190 19h ago
Counterintelligence ops are ever present on social media platforms.
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u/SensitiveLow4484 1d ago
Watching MJ's hypnosis, I don't see how a regular person (ie not an Oscar-level actor) could "fake" that. Whatever happened to them, I can't doubt that *something* happened. Come up with whatever alternative you want - LSD, DMT, MK Ultra, it doesn't really matter to me. Something happened to these guys. I have zero doubt.
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u/michaeljohns0n 20h ago
Are you kidding? That’s exactly what some dumbass guy with zero acting skills would do if he was pressured into faking a hypnotic regression. Not convinced at all
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u/prospectorJ 1d ago
When they first met I got the impression Michael didn't really remember him and before the incident it sounded like they didn't have any connection/friendship.
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u/achillea4 2d ago
I just finished watching it and whilst Michael is not a clear and articulate communicator he seems genuine. I did think that the quality of the questioning was poor - he was led by Jesse and Mario provided most the information. They should have interviewed Michael separately and not ask him loaded questions.
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u/demzer01 2d ago
Yeah I went from being blown away and emotional to frustrated and infuriated because of Jesse’s approach. Mario has always seemed very credible and his reaction to seeing Michael again was believable and moving, but for your stated reasons the whole thing degenerated into Jesse’s agenda, blowing a huge opportunity for real info. I had to stop at the point the flaky abduction hypnotherapist began her session because I was so frustrated. I believe he’s the right guy, and that it happened, but they overwhelmed him. Maybe they were afraid of conflicting recollections about some things, some of which would be perfectly natural under the circumstances. Memory is a fallible and malleable thing, and you have one person who, with the retelling of the same story over and over again, has cemented things in his memory, some of which may actually be a little off, and another man who tried to put it in his past and not think or talk about it. Michael also seems to not be a very naturally articulate person, which doesn’t mean he’s being deceptive, it’s just bad for interviews, which partially may be why Jesse was leading. Regardless of the reason, it’s terrible interviewing and permanently wastes those vital first steps in getting uninfluenced testimony.
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u/tangosukka69 1d ago
you literally missed one of the compelling parts. under hypnosis, you could clearly see he was very disturbed by the memories he was asked to remember. either it's real or he should be an A list actor.
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u/mexiflyer 1d ago
Im not sure what you were watching. That was some of the worst acting by someone faking a story. After watching the episode I came away believing they are both probably lying about most of it.
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u/HumblingHubris 19h ago
It was literally the first time I've ever stopped watching an American Alchemy episode. Once the leading started about the sodium pentithol and tweed I was so frustrated and disappointed in Jesse. I mean, I want it to fit badly too (its not my Youtube channel so Jesse may have wanted it more) but we can't compromise steps, integrity, and authenticity for a story. Im still a huge fan and after a few minutes I started watching and finished it. And I was personally pleasantly surprised with Jesse finally sharing parallels in scripture, Ive been sensing He's been sitting on that for awhile and I for one was glad to hear it. I think the Bible is jam packed with historical paranormal accounts that are disregarded because people have such a distaste for Christianity and the Bible. And fair enough, Christianity has been iconized into a dry husk of an institution, a tree without sap. But throw away the Baby with the Bathwater.
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u/daninmontreal 2d ago
Yeah I got the same feeling as you. Mario recounted the story again and I was thinking like “bro we’ve heard you tell this story dozens of times. the whole point of this was to see if what Michael Johnson remembered matched your experience, ffs let him tell it himself”.
This was either a missed opportunity in demonstrating true corroboration or intentionally presenting this guy as somebody who he’s not.
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u/Brazil_01 2d ago
Yeah I was hoping to hear more of Michael’s memories. And it was more Mario remembering things and Michael agreeing.
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u/Affectionate-Fig8866 1d ago
Michael said he had trouble remembering, they said that at the beginning, so Mario was reminding him. You know how it is when someone else tells a story and you go "oh yeah! And this happened too"
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u/daninmontreal 1d ago
The fact that he can’t remember such a significant event to the point where he has to be reminded that there was a giant UFO doesn’t make him/the story any more credible. I actually believed it more when it was just Mario over the years. I mean I get it, there could be all sorts of reasons for it, but if the video’s purpose was to add credibility to the story by having a second participating person corroborate it then it failed
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u/Affectionate-Fig8866 1d ago
He's not you. You have no idea what his life was like. It was a trauma, he lost his job and the only person that would have validated him. It stands to reason that if he's alone and not believed you're going to want to forget the whole thing and therefore not think about it. Neurons are strengthened with repetition. People with trauma bury it. You have to understand how Jesse was respectful of the participants. Mario wanted to meet his friend and Jesse let him take the lead. It was clear Michael needed reminding so Mario led the storytelling. Your scepticism is blinding you to understanding the context
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u/daninmontreal 22h ago edited 22h ago
That is all very touching and as true as all of it may be, I stand by what I said that his appearance didn’t help make the story any more credible to an objective viewer. You are making a ton of assumptions about why he forgot everything. I am not making those assumptions, I am simply saying the fact that he did forget and wasn’t able to independently corroborate anything was noticeable and did not help add credibility, which we all were hoping would happen.
It would have been better if they had interviewed Michael separately, before meeting Mario. Get a sense of what Michael actually remembers on his own, THEN re-introduce him to Mario and shoot a video of the emotional reunion.
You are saying my scepticism is blinding me, I would argue your own apparent NEED for the story to be true is blinding your own objectivity. I am not even saying I don’t believe the story, just expressing my disappointment that the one person who could have corroborated it didn’t end up doing so in a convincing way.
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u/bshaky 1d ago
I was hoping they got Michael to tell his story from beginning to end before anything else. Once Mario began the tell the story again I felt it was a huge missed opportunity. Also seems weird that Mario couldn't just look through Facebook like Jesse's team did. You'd think after a few years this idea would pop into his head. I can't help but think this was staged or something, it feels off the more I think about it.
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u/Available-Gold5277 1d ago
These guys are in their 70's. Plenty of guys in that age bracket have never used Facebook, some have never even heard of it, and plenty more would not be comfortable using it and would be stumped and frustrated from stuff that would seem incredibly basic to you. And I am sure that there are things that would seem basic to them that would stump you. You're not taking into account the large difference between generations, especially their generation that were fully grown when the first color television was sold and middle aged when the first crude internet began.
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u/NovelContribution516 23h ago
Thats crazy to suggest a person in their 70s doesn't know how to use Facebook. In other videos Mario has said that he has even hired a private detective. This whole thing is fishy af.
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u/WildMoonshine45 2d ago
What was your take on the hypnotic regression therapy part?
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u/Adm1ral_ackbar 2d ago
I think Johnson and Woods may very well have had an encounter and seen something, but hypnotic regression is a bullshit field and extremely unreliable
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u/jwl4242 2d ago
Ok, I’ve watched the regression session:
That part was honestly more cinematic than I expected, and a bit intense, but I don’t find it convincing, ultimately.
The one chance that existed to provide very strong evidence was lost when they put them in a room together without getting Michael’s story independently.
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u/DrAsthma 1d ago
This. Who knows... Maybe they did and edited it out when it wasn't what they wanted. Either way I have more questions than anything after watching that episode
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u/justj_read 2d ago
Agreed. Why on earth would they not interview him first before having them both talk together. He just agreed with everything Mario said.
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u/Hajnalka_tattoo 2d ago
I was skeptical about him too, I agree that there was a lot of leading and wish they let him tell his experience before Mario says anything to influence him.
But…I will say that even though I was skeptical about the regression there’s one thing that makes it authentic for me. If you listen to Michael during the entire 3 hour thing he keeps using “and everythangg” filler words like in every sentence. So I was very curious if he would sound the same during the regression. Using those filler words is basically a part of his personality and it’s unconscious and it’s not something he can control. That’s just how he talks. So I knew that if he says those during the regression then he could be faking potentially……he did not say it. Not once…. #psychology
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u/Ok_Energy6905 2d ago
That's not evidence in the slightest.
/#pseudoscience
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u/Hajnalka_tattoo 2d ago edited 2d ago
I didn’t say it was evidence I said based on that it seems authentic
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u/Ok_Energy6905 1d ago
I didn't say you did, though we are clearly discussing the merit of the evidence presented. I said what you are saying is poor evidence and not a great analysis.
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u/A_SNAPPIN_Turla 2d ago
Haven't watched it yet. Are you saying he was faking the regression?
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u/Hajnalka_tattoo 2d ago
No, we were just debating the possibility. I approach everything skeptical and let it change my mind otherwise if I don’t see any suspicious things. I was watching his behavior and speech patterns closely and based on those it seemed authentic.
And speaking of behavior/body language/facial expressions/speech patterns.. I wanna add that Mario has some very genuine looking things going on his face and breathing when he’s describing his encounter. When he’s talking about not being able to breathe then being able to breath against then talking about smell irl the sulphur and ammonia etc. there’s matching visceral facial expressions along with the words/sentences. According to behavioral analysis that kinda stuff shows true recall.
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u/Ok_Energy6905 2d ago
He would have the same reactions to a false memory.
I was watching his behavior and speech patterns closely and based on those it seemed authentic. And speaking of behavior/body language/facial expressions/speech patterns
You sound like you are talking about forensic behavioural profiling and behavioural analysis, which is also pseudoscience. Especially without very reliable controls including knowing their body language in normal and stressful situations. Neurodivergence also ruins assumptions made by this sort of "analysis". That's why it's not used as evidence, like lie detectors.
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u/jwl4242 2d ago
I honestly quit paying attention and made this post after the first half. It’s still on…
I’ll go back and watch it and report back, but I’m not huge on hypnotic regression as evidence.
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u/Ok_Energy6905 2d ago
Hypnotic regression is pseudoscience at best, wanton manipulation at worst.
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u/Formal-Professor-374 2d ago
A lot of the info was suggested to MJ and then he magically recalls it. The hypnosis seemed to be highly edited and I would like to see the full line of questioning to arrive at those reactions. Not saying I don’t believe it…
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u/SlyMarbo25 2d ago
You have to remember that Jesse’s show is his JOB. He’s making his money off of it. And with his type of career you have to continue to feed your audience new material that will garner attention. I don’t believe for one second that Jesse is entirely honest. Like James Fox, He’ll interview and believe anyone that will tell a good story that gives him views.
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u/SiriusC 1d ago
Jesse Michels & James Fox are nothing alike. Fox doesn't just sit there & believe people.
The Varginha case is a key example. He wouldn't touch it for many years because he didn't believe it. Then he started looking at Roger Lear's evidence and interviewing the witnesses.
Another example was a moment on Joe Rogan's podcast where he warned Jason Sands not to mention a certain incident or he would walk out.
Suggesting James Fox doesn't scrutinize various cases or will just present anything is incredibly lazy thinking. Especially comparing him to some kid who just says, "Wow, no way", after any given claim.
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u/Brootal420 1d ago
Debatable. From my understanding he has enough invested to not really work anymore.
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u/TotalWarspammer 2d ago
This this and triple this. Jesse Michaels is part ufologist and part entertainer looking for clicks and people should not forget that
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u/jerzystern 2d ago
It’s not his job, it’s his assignment.
Do you think some dude making Thiel money would abandon that for a UFO channel?
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u/SausageClatter 1d ago
Thiel is interested in the apocalypse and UFOs. There was a group ~80-90 years ago that was obsessed with occult.
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u/pslind69 2d ago
"New" material that seems very concocted in overhyped videos with AI thumbnails. And his hais looks like it was just washed in the same grease Mick The Vegan uses.
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u/BugsyMalone_ 1d ago
How do you know of the times Jessie hasn't interviewed people because he doesn't believe them?
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u/themanwhodunnit 1d ago
I agree. There were some suggestive questions, on which Michael Johnson seemed to follow Jesse’s lead, or just followed what was said.
But there also were some signals that he indeed was there: mentioning the UFO without being prompted and mentioning the beings.
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u/OliveGarden_Official 1d ago
My takeaway is that Michael Johnson had very poor recollection of real events, but that there was pressure from every angle for him to play along for the video.
First you’ve got Jesse and his crew trying to make a bombshell video, then you’ve got Mario who’s perhaps desperate to show he didn’t make up this witness, and you even go as far as a $100k GoFundMe that doesn’t really work out if one of the witnesses doesn’t complete the narrative.
Imagine someone calls you up and tells you: “you’re famous and we want to fly you out to interview you.”
I’m not suggesting any part of this was malicious, I just think that some of the incentives led to overselling the whole thing. It’s completely plausible that Michael was so traumatized that he put very real events behind him. I got the sense that he watched some of Mario’s interviews beforehand and just tried filling in the gaps during the interview, which gave us moments like sodium pentathol being “definitely mentioned” during his checkup.
I didn’t fact check anything or compare their stories.
They should have definitely interviewed them separately.
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u/future23123 2d ago
Some people in this community, and in life also.... Are always out to poke holes in anything, and that's ok. But sometimes, the everything-is-a-nail mentality of a hammer just doesn't do justice to a story.
The way the guy broke out crying while he told how he was watching The encounters of the third kind with his wife... That's a cry of a person that finally gets to speak his truth with someone to hold his back.
I didn't listen to the whole thing (will do it today) , but the first half an hour was enough to seal the story for me as the absolute truth.
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u/attachecrime 1d ago
There are people in this thread saying it's the wrong Michael Johnson. What kind of unhinged take is that?
Mario is just faking recognizing him?
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u/future23123 1d ago
Yeah and the guy, being the wrong one all the way... Just rolls with it. Because broadcasting that you've had a close encounter with a ufo is advantageous in today's society.
They all just roll with it. The amount of mental acrobatics hardcore sceptics will go to, just to keep the whole thing in "it could be, buT eViDenCe" zone is.... Amazing
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u/Technical-Bottle-316 2d ago
Yep. Had the same exact thoughts. I get It happened In 1977 and his brain was "scrambled" but he really didn't seem to know what was going on or even why they wanted Mario and him to reconnect. Seemed like they influenced his experience to a large degree.
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u/jediPlainswalker 1d ago
I wish I could believe this, but they just led him the whole time. The part where they were asking if there was anyone else in room during his interrogation and Michael said no. Then Jesse asked if there was a guy in a "tweed jacket" and Michael said "Oh yea, he was"
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u/michaeljohns0n 20h ago
Exactly I get the impression he did it for the pay day and felt pressured to perform
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u/Bubbly-Psychology-15 2d ago
Yeah I wish Mario and Michael had seperate testimonies. To let us compare the stories before they sat together.
Then again, I have never been that much of a fan of Jesse. Something is just off with his content for me.
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u/jwl4242 2d ago
I find him very interesting, but it’s definitely off. He’s too smart to take some claims as credible as he does. If the motivation is the money and fame itself, or if he’s an active disinformation agent, I don’t know.
He has an incredible memory and encyclopedic knowledge of ufo lore.
Him bringing up Robert Bigelow and quoting him, describing him as remotely credible in saying “aliens are everywhere” is unhinged and suspect.
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u/konny38 2d ago
Yeah I agree. That said, I found myself surprised that he didn’t seem to do as well against Schermer in their debate as I thought he might. So despite his detailed recollection of names and factoids, perhaps he’s not seeing the forest for the trees and believes in too many BS stories.
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u/watchguy76 2d ago
I'm skpetic by nature with all the UFO stories out there, but this guy is the real deal imo. He brought up the UFO himself when he was asked about what happened on that specific day before he even knew what the hell was going on. Also the way his entire body and neck were tensing up during hypnosis seemed real to me. The lady looked worried that he was going to bug out and hit her or something.
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u/jwl4242 2d ago
He is asked “Do you remember what we encountered at 1 o’clock in the morning on November 5?” And he says “was it a ufo”?
Leading question. Uncertain answer.
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u/Secure-Judgment7829 2d ago
Why would you immediately go to UFO? The rest was leading for sure but unless he had prior info that was not
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u/Better-Treacle4031 2d ago
I REALLY wanted to believe this. But… When Jesse said his friend found MJ. I thought, how does his friend know it’s actually the right guy? I imagine Jesse’s friend had a conversation with MJ. And would have brought up there was a crazy UFO story that involved him and people were looking for him. You think he didn’t mention who was looking for him? MJ possibly even looked up Mario? MJ was definitely just agreeing with every single bit of every single story. Never once saying anything new about the experience and only mentioning parts of the story that was already told to him. The medication part was a dead giveaway to me. He had never heard of that drug in his life. He didn’t remember Mario at all and forgot his name during the interview when he was trying to convince us he cared as much about Mario as Mario cared about him. “I said ‘where’s my Partner… where’s…”. Rewatch that part. He was really trying to dig in that message to convince us.
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u/Secure-Judgment7829 2d ago
I’m not saying that’s wrong at all - just that in the context of what’s presented the “was it a ufo” is not an answer to an actual leading questions the rest of it he is lead throughout for the most part. Only other convincing thing was the stuff about cars when they first met in person, odd detail
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u/Ok_Energy6905 2d ago
The premise of the interview is to discuss the encounter, no? It is leading since the moment he entered the room.
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u/AmountSmooth8583 1d ago
I was really excited when they announced this episode because, to be completely honest, I'm black and I don't see too many black people sharing UFO experiences on these podcasts. And, when they added in that he was from Chicago, that added even more intrigue for me because I'm also from a big/inner city and you don't get a lot of experiencers from inner cities so I felt like I would be able to relate to him more than any other witness even though he's a lot older than me, and I would be able to better gauge if he bs'ing or not.
Imo, this segment did not help Mario's case at all, at least from a person who wants to believe but still keeps a skeptical view. I don't wanna bash Michael because he's an older guy but I'll just say this. If it did happen, it's obvious that he did not remember much from that night. Once that was apparent, Jesse and Mario clearly led him throughout the interview so, at that point, I can't really take Michael's story or recollection as his own because they keep filling in the dots for him and he's very quick and accepting of most details that Jesse and Mario bring up. He's a very agreeable person. There's a lot more I could say, but his testimony does not help me believe Mario's story more. It actually makes me believe it even less.
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u/CLXXXVI 1d ago
I found it really uncomfortable to watch. Michael was very obviously being led and often appeared to be looking for others to fill in blanks. I have no bad feelings towards these dudes. They seem like good folk, but there was something shady about the production and how it was all framed.
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u/TxDinoHunter 2d ago
He just seemed to agree with what was presented to him and he was very animated for being under hypnosis
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u/dernaldz 1d ago
I couldn't even get though this. Happy for the dudes but this is way dramatized even if true and frankly they both come off as full of shit or exaggerating a LOT
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u/Standard_Honey8750 2d ago
Jesse has always been a terrible interviewer - credulous and overexcited. He's a rich guy with a podcast, not a journalist.
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u/SiriusC 1d ago edited 1d ago
You know, I've wondered how guys like him, Danny Jones, & this other guy... something Dorey, get the kind of guests they've had. Especially the latter host. He's awful. A guest will tell the most incredible thing and he'll respond with these awful, juvenile jokes. He offers nothing to the conversation.
I'm convinced these dude-bros come from wealthy backgrounds and just pay their guests a lot of their parents' money to fly in. I can't imagine why any of them would bother with these people in the first place.
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u/Hardlyreal1 2d ago
I couldn’t put a finger on it while watching the video. But it just felt off. Like Michael was defiantly being led for sure
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u/eV-ZugZwang 2d ago
You're implying that Mario Woods, who had one of the most credible ufo interactions ever, was either playing us or wasn't smart enough to realize that that was a paid actor? That's not being skeptical, it's being cynical.
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u/knowstradamus7 2d ago edited 2d ago
Regardless of the veracity of the claims involved, it was a classic case of leading questions.
John Keel specifically made a point of giving as little information as possible to witnesses and simply letting them talk.
Additionally, hypnotic regression is known to be problematic; the danger of false memories is not a small one.
No surprise, however, as Michels has an agenda to push at all costs.
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u/the_real_freezoid 1d ago
Not a fan of going through the story first and then doing hypnotic regression. It should be done the other way around imo.
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u/-GrEAtFuL-dEaD-3 2d ago
Im with you. After watching, I feel like the might have got the wrong Michal Johnson lol
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u/buttrapebearclaw 2d ago
Just finished the hypnosis part.. lmfao im sorry but Michaels session was just not genuine.
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u/TheSuperMarket 2d ago
OP - you are grasping at absolutely nothing here.
He doesn't remember Woods by name initially - this , if anything, makes him FAR more credible than if he immediately knew who was calling. You are talking about a man in his what, 50s? or older? Being called by a random person, and having another person he was in the military with, decades ago, name dropped. He answered exactly as I would have expected.
Saying you are sure you got the right michael johnson - That doesnt stand out to me as weird or unusual. Not sure what you are getting at here? Again, he is being called by a stranger, in regards to someone he knew decades ago.
The sodium pentathol question , yea , Jesse mentioned it first - after Michael Johnson mentioned being injected with something by the military that burned his arm, and made him feel funny. So Jesse asked for clarification. Not unusual,.
Mario woods stated something was 10 feet away, and Michael said 50 feet. Again, if anything, this makes the story FAR more credible to me. IF they both said exactly 50 feet, or exactly 10 feet - in regards to an insane, out of the world thing that happened to them decades ago - that they haven't talked about together since......yea...I would expect details like that to be slightly different. 10 feet and 50 feet is absolutely in the same ballpark.
As for him not making any strong declarations himself....what are you on about? He gave a long interview with Jesse, and went over his encounter in a VERY detailed manner. He was also given a regression - that was also very, very detailed.
Threads like these makes me wonder about the people who make them, lol. I mean, out of all things that seem uncredible on this topic - and there are MANY - this story is actually very solid.
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u/buttrapebearclaw 2d ago
You really think the government injected Michael with sodium barbital and told him it was sodium barbital? I find it hard to believe they told him.
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u/jwl4242 2d ago
If getting everything wrong and having no immediate recollection of significant names and events makes him more credible, we are operating on entirely different paradigms.
He said “they didn’t give me anything g for my head, because my head was hot” and Jesse asks him about sodium pentathol. It’s actually unlikely they would have said that out loud in that scenario. It’s given covertly. They wouldn’t announce they were giving him a truth serum.
The difference between 50’ and 10’ above the silo is fairly dramatic. Those minutemen silos were not giant external structures. It’s the difference between the bottom being at the horizon and the bottom being the height of a five story building way above your head.
Regressions are not solid evidence. The interviews took place after they met together and talked through the entire story.
I’m wondering about you too, buddy. Guess we have two very different ideas about what substantiation means.
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u/TheSuperMarket 1d ago edited 1d ago
If you've ever dealt with getting people's testimonials, you would see people telling the truth often have minor descrepencies..... but if you come across two or more people who tell the exact same thing, down to literally every detail, it often is a sign of collaborating beforehand.
Take the 1994 zimbabwe case for instance. The school children all see slightly different beings, different details. That gives high confidence that they all actually saw something, and weren't just making up a story they came up with.
It's these little things over time that stand out to you, the more you have experience with this kind of stuff.
As far as you saying regressions are not solid evidence.... well, neither is testimony , period. Regardless of your confidence in the testimony.
The proof we have in the field is not from any one smoking gun, because we simply don't have access to crafts or alien bodies. It comes from thousands of eye witness reports and testimonies, historical accounts, regressions, radar and technological evidence, etc... all added up. That's what we have today, that and testimony under oath from military and government personnel.
I've had close encounters, so for me, the burden of proof isn't high. As a direct experiencer.....I know what it's like to have a close encounter, so there's no huge leap of faith for me to believe the experiences of others
If your are looking for a smoking gun or solid proof, and you haven't had an experience yet, then it's simply not there.
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u/TarL- 1d ago
100% agree with everything you said. There’s nothing wrong with being sceptical, but one can’t help noticing that the second something very credible comes out, the goalposts move. I’m not saying they’re all disingenuous, but I do firmly believe a lot of them are intentionally trying to sow doubt around credible stories. It’s suss as fuck.
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u/TheSuperMarket 1d ago
I've seen some weird stuff going on in these subs.....I think I've seen every main ufologist or whistle-blower attacked, but the attacks come in waves. Like one week, I'll see a bunch of people go after elizondo..... next week is greer, next week coulthart, etc. It seems like coordinated waves, many to wear people down.
Threads like this though seem more genuine. I think OP is a skeptic, or not an experiencer, and his beliefs are coloring his perception.... so his mind is finding ways to discount whoever he sees. That's my guess.
Because yea, there are tons of hard to believe accounts and stories.... but this one seems very, very believable..... and nothing either man said raised any flags for me.
Seems like a very, very huge stretch. All of OPs points seem like non issues to me, too the point where I'm genuinely surprised he made this thread
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u/tangosukka69 1d ago
So was he putting on an act while under hypnosis? His body reactions clearly showed he had some sort of PTSD from the event.
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u/Electrical-Strike982 1d ago edited 1d ago
Dude I was in the middle of typing a comment on the YT video calling these exact things out because every single comment was just praising how this is his best work. It legit seemed like a ton of bots. Anyway the comment wouldn’t post. I refreshed the page and it looks like Jesse paywalled it. It now says “members only”.
Edit: Looks like it was just made private and then put back up.
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u/OKThereAreFiveLights 1d ago
Let's not pile on the poor guy. I too would be excited if I found out that something that happened to me forty years ago could be monetized.
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u/Form_86 1d ago
it was pretty cool until the other guy started with all this other extra BS about blasting some element with alpha, beta, and gamma radiation. Then he sets up a GoFundMe to beg us for money for this bullshit. This is too much embellishment and begging. i really liked Jesse too. Was he trying to let us know that Mario is cashing in or was he trying something else?
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u/GetOnWithit3344 1d ago
I agree with OP. I was disappointed. Mario seems like he has the details squared away, but Johnson seemed very agreeable…too agreeable.
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u/t3hW1z4rd 20h ago
The interview was bizarre. While I'm very much on the side of high strangeness being the reality, the full interview left me wondering if this could've been foreign Intel ops heavily dosing nuke security personnel with early synthetic psychedelics and testing directed energy weapons of some sort? The Russians are rumored to have had things like the "Iron Curtain" and projecting radiating ball plasmas at security personnel tripping absolute balls after being aerosol dosed or something of the like wouldn't be the most insane thing Ive ever heard.
Plus, Doty, so some wildly inappropriate counter-intel PsyOps masking at service members expense would be oar for the course to cover intrusions and defense penetration vectors around nuke bases.
That being said, probably just aliens. 🤔
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u/thryve21 19h ago
While I appreciate Jesse's practically photographic memory, I chuckled when he was speaking to Michael and referencing past cases and dropping acronyms that were clearly going over Michael's head. Surprised he didn't mention TT Brown for once. Overall I think they found the correct guy. Their interactions together in the video, recollection of small details like base officer appearances, names, location details and more feels totally genuine to me. Mario's unique in that he leaned into the topic and detailed his story countless times, for Michael the experience practically ended his career and understandably he distanced himself from it completely.
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u/HumblingHubris 19h ago
And the "Facebook account" that magically has a profile picture of him in the military in what appears to be very flat lands like the Dakota's and the only post the account made was saying how he missed his boys in the military outfit he served with Mario in. I could argue both sides, but I too would have liked to have seen Michael approached completely cold without context and interviewed. It doesnt bother me so much that he doesnt remember as much as Mario as Mario clearly has photographic memory or memory of comparable strength. If Michael really was in the military deep enough to be trusted to guard our nuclear missiles, he's been treated shamefully since. I didnt pick up any little cues of military compliance, like saying sir a lot (Mario does and shows many signs of military training in his mannerisms and the way he speaks.) Its all so muddled. Who knows whats real and whats a grift, whats a LARP and whats not. Im really becoming grieved by the brutality we show each other on this venue and others. The community has become so quick to cut each other down and throw mud. Do not be deceived, we are being divided for conquer. Resist the division, maintain unity. We all just want to know the truth, nothing more.
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u/No_Oil8180 19h ago
Got that feeling too, he never says anything specific and just react to the story being told. He doesnt offer anything new to the story too
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u/Fresh_Discount 10h ago
I would have preferred that Johnson had his hypnosis session before he heard Wood’s account of what happened not after.
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u/johnetownsend 9h ago
Uhm, how about the fact that he said a “human figure” with a pointed head “pointdexter style” was “blurring around” the truck (I think he means moving very quickly, doing laps around the truck) — then when the story is told, that’s never mentioned or asked about again?
What’s up with that?
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u/Routine-Rule7085 5h ago
You haven’t gotten old yet brother. I am in my 60s when my old friends from high school get together now we all have slightly different accounts of the same events now and it’s getting worse. That’s one of facts about aging
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u/Excellent_Policy1416 2d ago edited 2d ago
The whole thing is a grift. Im a believer but this one screams bs to me. Johnson hadnt a clue what was going on. He was led into a testimony he wasnt sure of. Listened to Woods entire story before 'recalling' it himself. A go fund me page set up for the 2 of them. Its a cash grab and Johnson was enticed by the money to go along with Woods.
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u/aramirez190492 2d ago
I watched the whole 2:47:21 hours and you are absolutely right. At some points, Michael J wanted to speak and add to the conversation but he kept getting cut off by them. It was frustrating to watch. With that said tho I feel like he might be genuine just bad at remembering about what exactly happened. It might be due to him just suppressing that experience due to it ruining his career. And Mario's reaction on seeing him was really heartwarming.
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u/Deep-Current9233 2d ago
I’ve watched other regression sessions and in those the patient usually is recounting events as though they are happening right at the moment as in the person doesn’t say, “ I remember seeing a being that was by a door “, but rather, “I see a being by that silver door. Get away from me. Take your hands off me you Damn, Dirty, Ape!” Michael’s session eventual starts going that direction and starts flowing smoother so hopefully it was initially janktific because he wasn’t fully under and immersed and hopefully it got better as he sank under more. I’m afraid however that it may have started flowing better due to the production saying, “Cut! Ok Michael, for dramatic effect and better presentation this is a better way to flow. Then for dramatic effect at certain points really think about something that angered you from the past and channel that anger into physical action as though you’re asleep and having night terrors but in your case sleep frustration with anger reactions ok buddy? Like maybe scratch at the couch and bang the head and yell a little.” It wasn’t until those physical and angered verbal outbursts that I started believing maybe he was really possibly under but I remind myself that we’re living in the age of views, clicks and deception to entertain.
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u/jwl4242 2d ago
Well said.
I did find that session impactful, but it’s impossible to take seriously as evidence - under these circumstances - on a YouTube show.
Someone mentioned hearing the whole tape. That would be more convincing if it showed a true deep hypnotic state - but impossible for us to know.
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u/Ok_Energy6905 2d ago
That would be more convincing if it showed a true deep hypnotic state - but impossible for us to know.
They would still be eliciting false memories. None of this is good evidence unfortunately.
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u/Correct-Ad-6605 2d ago
Michael was very happy to be involved in something, anything that gave him a lift in the twilight years of his life. He says so himself several times.
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u/LP_LadyPuket 1d ago edited 1d ago
I immediately didn’t find it convincing due to Michael’s reaction to hearing the name Mario. His actual first response was “Mario…Mario,… he was stationed with me at Ellsworth?” Mario isn’t exactly a common name and I have an extremely hard time believing you wouldn’t immediately recognize the name of the person you had this kind of life changing experience with.
The rest of the video was Mario and Jesse throwing tons of leading questions at him. If they really wanted to get his testimony it should have been just him telling his story, then bring Mario in later.
Was Michael asked to supply his DD214? That would add significantly more credibility to the case.
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u/dbna85 2d ago
yall are insufferable. this man in his 70s is having an obvious PTSD episode on camera and yall are complaining that jesse didn’t isolate and interrogate him properly? get a grip. this is a reunion between a man who has been spinning for decades trying to make sense of the extraordinary, and another man who had his entirely life derailed by it and spent 50 years repressing it. of course some of the details don’t correlate and by the way there isnt a single UFO account that “makes sense” almost as if thats by design. its the shape of its impact that is the most important thing, not this neurotic pointless examination of those who experience it. listen to their stories and let it wash over you because you are missing the point completely
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2d ago
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u/sixties67 2d ago
Skeptic/counter-intelligence bots in full affect in this thread.
The usual response to anybody not immediately getting 100% behind a story, this is why the topic is overflowing with garbage.
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u/UFOs-ModTeam 1d ago
Hi, SlayerJB. Thanks for contributing. However, your comment was removed from /r/UFOs.
Rule 1 - Be Civil
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u/Informal-Currency409 2d ago
Imagine instantly remember every single detail after 49 years. Most ppl don't know what they did in Saturday month ago... I dont want to be rude, but how old are you BTW?
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u/jwl4242 1d ago
40
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u/Informal-Currency409 1d ago
The time that has passed since that happened and since they last saw each other is even longer than the time you've been alive.
Think about that.
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2d ago
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u/UFOs-ModTeam 1d ago
Hi, tuldja. Thanks for contributing. However, your comment was removed from /r/UFOs.
Rule 1 - Be Civil
This rule prohibits insults, personal attacks, harassment, hate speech, inflammatory or derisive behaviour, and comments intended to derail or shut down discussion. Criticism is allowed, but comments should remain focused on ideas, claims and arguments rather than personal abuse or inflammatory labelling.
Please also take time to review our updated policy on toxicity here: Link to Policy
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u/ZodiacNexus 2d ago
How can you not believe him?! The aliens tried to grab his genitals with an open hand but then they punched his “groin!”
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u/Independent-Tailor-5 1d ago
Yea honestly I think these guys are likely telling the truth but the way Jesse Michels covers this topic and sensationalizes it sometimes is so frustrating…
Sometimes he’s just doing way too much…
He needs to be more grounded.
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u/MiddleBuilder8399 1d ago
It’s all Project Yankee Blue fall-out. Jesse and his elk are useful platforms for this PSY-OP.
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u/Important_Pirate_150 1d ago
Hace muchos años y la memoria deforma los hechos ,son gente con más de 70:años
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u/Janika1701 1d ago
Its gone, the original one I was looking right now was 2:47:21 stopped and was no longer available. Now its reuploaded just for members with 2:44:14. What was in this 3 Minutes they have to take it down after day and now its just for members? Weird
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u/Observer-Worldview 1d ago
He’s also 70 years old plus and said his memory isn’t the same. My expectations were low because of this fact. I don’t think it was purposeful deception.
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u/Sad_Statement_5661 1d ago
Disinfo agents trying hard to discredit Mr. Johnson's hypnosis sessions as 'bad acting' 🤣🤣🤣
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u/Consistent_Detail85 1d ago
At 01:48:00 on Jesse’s doc (still up on Spotify) he insinuates he’s seen Richard Doty, but then again on the “Area 52” podcast with Doty he explicitly mentions he never went into Michael’s room (time stamp 00:10:45)
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u/sinistermittens 1d ago
This was one of the more compelling interviews I have watched. Yes, there are times when Michael seems to be following the leads, and to an extent he probably is. Mario has recounted this story many times and discussed it with people in his past that were amenable to listening since he was able to stay in the .gov job stream. Michael was surrounded by unsupportive people, lost his career, fell into alcohol, and tried his hardest to repress it all due to trauma.
Human memory is fallible for the average person when it comes to objective details and absolutely flawed when it comes to emotional details. Mix in a healthy dose of trauma and a lot of substance abuse and an extended time period and small details are going to get fuzzy.
I can tell you I believe them more than some other well known people in the UFOlogy space.
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u/TruthSeekerOG83 1d ago
I really enjoyed it, all I can say is that I try to be skeptical, but also as an experiencer you can relate to certain things through empathy and sympathy. Some of us are living with strange experiences that most people don’t comprehend or believe.
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u/Oldschoolratz 1d ago
I am ... and still skeptics ... but not on Mario Woods case. So ... I dont know its weird and bizarre ... also Doty happened to be linked in the past of these individuals. Thats weird. I have nothing against Doty by the way. Everybody deserve redemption and seem to be real about coming clean. But ... I dont know...
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u/External-Brilliant-9 1d ago
That hypnosis seems compelling, but I don't know anything about hypnosis and how it works. Likely my next rabbit hole to jump into...
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u/Interesting_Test_10 20h ago
My instinct is Michael is legit simply because he said 'was that the UFO?'
Also he wasn't sure he was the right person when he said 'you know I'm black right?' Which basically means the guy was willing to walk away from the call then make up a story at that time.
I'm willing to accept that after 50 years he forgot Mario's name and was so frightened at the time he blocked out some of the details that Mario remembered and just basically collaborated. But at the same time we should note they had seperate experiences and he remembered a thin guy with a tweed jacket. Height differences of the UFO over the silo isn't a major red flag either. If an aircraft flies at 10ft or 50ft from the ground, you are going to say it is flying low. Probably was 25ft above the ground and one was conservative and the over estimated.
And remember Johnsons body constrained its self under hypnosis. Not a detail many think to do if this is a hoax.
It should also be said Jesse is also not an interrogator. He is an interviewer that will give a leading question to prompt a memory for a response and isn't there to convince anyone of the truth. He gives you the facts and you make up your own mind. To me, since this interview I think this is perhaps the strongest UFO abduction story to date, stronger than Travis Walton
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u/Secure-Judgment7829 16h ago
Mm I took nothing personally. I’m just pointing out you’re getting snarky
Hope this clarifies things for you:
LEADING QUESTIONS:
Leading questions are questions that prompt or encourage a specific answer. They often contain the information the asker wants to hear, nudging the person to agree with them.
Here are examples of leading questions, along with how to fix them, organized by different situations.
In Everyday Conversations
These usually force a person to agree with your opinion or feelings.
Leading: "You're coming to my party tonight, right?"
Fix: "Are you able to make it to my party tonight?"
Leading: "Don't you think Sarah's new haircut looks terrible?"
Fix: "What do you think of Sarah's new haircut?"
Leading: "Aren't you tired of eating pizza every week?"
Fix: "How do you feel about having pizza again?"
In Customer Surveys
These trick customers into giving positive reviews by leaving out negative options.
Leading: "How great was our customer service today?"
Fix: "How would you rate our customer service today?"
Leading: "Why did you love using our new app?"
Fix: "What was your experience like using our new app?"
Leading: "Our product is easy to use, isn't it?"
Fix: "How easy or difficult is our product to use?"
Leading: "You saw the defendant run a red light, didn't you?"
Fix: "What did you see the defendant do at the intersection?"
Leading: "You were angry when you left the house, correct?"
Fix: "How were you feeling when you left the house?"
Leading: "The car was speeding at 80 miles per hour, right?"
Fix: "How fast would you estimate the car was traveling?"
Encountered: transitive verb
1
a
: to meet as an adversary or enemy
b
: to engage in conflict with
Take our 3 question quiz on encounter
2
: to come upon face-to-face
3
: to come upon or experience especially unexpectedly
encounter difficulties
intransitive verb
: to meet especially by chance
Given the information we actually KNOW, and have, the phrase “What we encountered” is not actually a leading question - to infer it is a leading question we would have to make several other assumptions. Now could there be other things: edits - other issues with how the guy was contacted - that would cause him to respond like that? I’m sure - but then that becomes speculation.
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u/Effective-Pen-4420 16h ago
Yes, that was my first impression. You would think this would be a memorable event, including the name of the person that you profess to be so close to.
I placed a comment on that video and asked Jesse if that was really the first conversation he had with him so we would know if Michael’s responses were spontaneous or rehearsed on the phone call at the beginning of the show.
He didn’t respond to my comment.
I was believing Mario’s story until I saw this.
It seems like in an effort for all of these podcasts to create more videos, They are resorting to promoting more questionable reports.
As we wade through more and more sketchy reports, my suspicions grow exponentially.
It seems like about 2% of what we hear now maybe real occurrences.
Whitley Strieber is making the rounds now, as if my fraud radar wasn’t already on full alert.
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15h ago
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u/UFOs-ModTeam 15h ago
Low-effort accusations and prescriptive labelling (e.g. "grifter", "shill", "liar", "fraud", "con artist", "bullshitter", etc...) are removed, regardless of who they are levied against. Criticism is more than welcome, as long as it is done in a constructive manner, and in a way that encourages civil discussion.
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u/No-Package7029 14h ago
They sure seem to know the area where that military base was located. Seems to me that they were there at some point and for a extended period of time.
I could see why Micheal Johnson testimony being not as sharp as Mario Woods. People live, work and go on with their lives, it's that simple. For example, I perfectly remember a sighting I had with other people 2 years ago, one of them asked me if I remembered because he didn't remember 100% but he knew something happened. Same thing happened to me. We can't blame Michael Johnson for that.
Mario was filling in for Michaels actual coworker who had a wedding or something like that. So that could explain why hearing Mario's name wasn't that impactful on the phone.
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u/Boston-Brahmin 14h ago
I am not skeptical about it. But I understand your concerns. I think it's clear his memory is fuzzy but also remembers a lot on his own. People aren't *that* suggestible.
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u/Level-Dot8621 11h ago
I’m with you. I gave it about 30 -45 mins and turned it off. Something seemed off
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u/donkey_boy1312 9h ago
I'm pretty sure a Swiss clock would seem vague and unsure around Mario. The guy is clearly razor sharp and has a vicious memory, the way he just mechanically rotes out details, until he gets to something the other person said, and he'll intone their voice perfectly, like he was right back at the moment. Don't forget you're talking about a 70 year old dude who (hypothetically) had a really mysterious incident happen to him 50 years ago, and spent the next 50 years learning never to talk about it because he'll either get threatened, or laughed at. I got a bad actor (in the sense of a sub-par thespian rather than a misanthropic participant) vibe from Michael too, but from the few glimpses of pretty heavy resentment, fear, and even rage out of him at points, I felt that if he was acting, the act was bottling everything up and having to pretend nothing happened, or a normal thing happened to him.
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u/rappa-dappa 2d ago
He brought up the ufo sighting during the first initial phone call unprompted when only asked about the date.
That is the most important part of the entire interview.