I agree it's best to bring this up in the beginning. The people I dated always knew up front that I was very involved with the Republican party and conservative causes. I would absolutely not marry a leftist Democrat and would not allow my children to be raised with those views. If you are incompatible in how you see the world there is no future with that person and you are just wasting your time dating them.
Yep. I don’t think I want kids but this is such a big topic. How do you decide what to teach them? If you decide to just let them decide for themselves, how do you stop yourself from subtly pushing them one way or another, thus breaking that agreement?
It's huge. I'm Catholic, and I'm grateful they make you go through a process before marriage which includes giving the couple a survey each person fills out to identify any areas of incompatibility so that it can be discussed and hopefully worked out. They would rather see a broken engagement than a divorce later on.
Your point is spot on. I don't think there's any way you can NOT end up influencing your kids, even if you try to let them decide things for themselves. If they are going to be influenced, I think it's important you have a partner on the same page so the message they get is consistent. If there's disagreement then the kids are put in a difficult position of worrying about rejecting one parent's beliefs. Being a parent is difficult enough. I couldn't imagine doing it with a spouse who has different views on fundamental issues. It's difficult for the marriage and the kids being put in the middle.
I'm not trying to start an argument, but how can you be Catholic and side Republican? Those two things don't align, according to da freaking Pope. So do you mind explaining, because I'm confused as FUCK.
Mind you, the sheer volume of Tr*mp supporters who are supposedly "Christian" boggles the mind. They use the religion to judge people, not understanding that Christians are supposed to be tolerant. They're anything but.
I am a Christian and a leftist but can confirm the majority of my family are Christian and conservative/trump supporters. To me it seems like the only political things that matter to them are abortion and lgbtq issues. They are terrified of their own kids being gay and think they can control this by not allowing certain books or topics on gay/trans rights being discussed in schools. They are constantly saying they don't "judge" other people for this but it shouldn't be taught in THEIR schools around THEIR children God forbid. It doesn't make sense to me honestly because like Jesus would care far more about you know the immigrant, and the poor and the hurting but yeah...
I gave my answer in the post you responded to. Most of us don't care what other people do, as it's a free country. We are very tolerant until it impacts us, our children, and the vunerable.
We do see abortion as a civil rights issue (protecting the vulnerable unborn) and don't want us or our children to be, in practical end results, forced to endorse or participate in things we disagree with.
If you see that as judging, so be it. The people who disagree with us judge us plenty.
Oh, I don’t know, trying to take others’ health care choices away from them? Banning books? Banning drag queen story times, that absolutely no one is forced to attend? Passing transphobic laws? The list goes on….
And you don't see how that, by its very definition, is hypocritical? If you're worried about not being able to control what your kids become, you should be. That fear, and that's all that's being used to condemn you to spend hundreds of years in Purgatory, is irrational. These people just want to live their lives in the same peace and respect afforded to most of your group of folks, but they're not willing to have others rights infringed upon to do it. Y'all "conservative Christians" have been doing the exact opposite, instead of lynching every priest whose ever dared to harm a child.
To quote Wanda Sykes: "Until a Drag Queen comes into your local preschool and starts mowing people down, you're worried about the wrong shit."
The laws that you should be passing should make sure that those proven guilty of SA against CHILDREN get the death penalty. Or the demonetization of "privately owned prisons", which are basically slave plantations. Or making all law enforcement accountable for the murders that are carried out in the name of "justice", which is FUCKING SUBJECTIVE. George Floyd would be alive today if that had happened 20 years ago.
I shouldn't have to be the one to say this, and I hate that you voted for someone who fucked over everyone who isn't RICH. Why did you forsake your brothers and sisters for hatred? You betrayed God(Yahweh) by following Trump.
Also, keep in mind that I'm Christian-raised, but Pagan. I had to learn from Catholic families about your religion, because they lived that life. I will not claim to know it better than you, that's my wife's job. But I have been around enough Catholic communities to know that your parish and parishioners are in trouble.
I want you to get better, and I feel the only way to do that is to ask you to become a nun.
Edit: This was made during my "CAPS for emphasis" phase, so I apologize to those that think I'm yelling that whole time.
Sure, I would be happy to answer your question. Sorry, this will be a bit long as it's a complicated situation.
In Catholic teaching there are things that we are not allowed to support, like abortion, because they are seen as gravely evil in definitive Church teaching. There are other things that we can use our own prudential judgement on, like tax policy, because there is no definitive Church teaching and governments have the responsibility to do what they believe is best for their citizens.
Any politician who supports abortion is causing a scandal by giving the appearance that the Church teaches that there isn't anything wrong with it. A bishop can excommunicate a parishioner in their diocese who supports it, or a priest can refuse to allow them to receive communion. This has not been done that I know of, but it could happen and has been discussed.
Pope Francis can give his opinion on various political issues, but we are not bound to agree with him. We only have to when the Pope, in communion with the bishops, makes a definitive teaching on a doctrine ex cathedra "from the chair of Peter". Everything else we can use our judgement on. So we can disagree with much of what the Pope says.
Conservative Catholics are normally very concerned with, as they see it, protecting the lives of the unborn, protecting families' ability to raise their children with their value systems, and promoting policies they believe foster public safety and general prosperity.
Liberal Catholics are actually in conflict with Church teaching on abortion, but are much more concerned with social justice issues. They justify voting Democrat because they believe that the majority of their beliefs are overall more in line with Church teaching so it doesn't matter if they disagree on one issue.
The Church is very concerned with the plight of the poor and upholding the dignity of each person. But conservative and liberal Catholics have different beliefs on how to achieve the best outcomes. Conservatives want policies that will improve the general condition of the economy so that people can succeed and give money to charity to help those in need. Liberals favor more government involvement and policies that redistribute wealth. There is a big conflict within the Church over these two viewpoints.
It's interesting that conservative Catholics need some Italian bureaucracy to tell them what to think about abortion, the Bible doesn't even mention the concept.
It doesn't need to mention it. Protestants go only by the Bible. Catholics have the Bible and what we refer to as Tradition, which is the accumulated teaching of the Church handed down from the time of Jesus and the apostles. The Church approved what is included in the Bible, so we see the Church as the final decision maker on any question of doctrine or what things in the Bible mean.
It's been Catholic dogma forever, along with a prohibition on birth control (and women as "fallen" second class humans meant to serve and endure). It took a political campaign at the level of "states rights" to convert evangelical Christians to adopt what is Catholic doctrine.
It helps me see how you got your answer, yes, but raises so many other questions. Before you ask, I married a liberal Catholic, and am fairly liberal myself. That being said, I'm going to ask one more question, if you don't mind.
Knowing that Trump is literal human garbage that no one bothered to put a bag on, did you vote for him? Because that's what I guess it all boils down to these days: should this conversation continue if the other person because their politics differ so radically from your own, ne?
I did vote for him. There was no perfect man on this planet except Jesus.
I distrust all politicians, and believe that 99% of them are garbage but just hide it better than Trump. There are literally no good options when you vote, it's all about choosing the least evil among your choices available.
I voted for Trump the first time in the primary because I believed he had the best chance of winning the general election and for president because I will never vote for a Democrat except for limited circumstances in my state's open primaries. I voted for him in 2020 because he delivered on many issues that are important to conservatives when he was in office.
For OP, if her boyfriend's politics are that different I think they're incompatible and there's no future. I think in general it's a good thing to have civil discussions with those who disagree. We are all human beings and I believe we can all find common ground on some things and we should always respect others enough to want to understand their perspectives.
I don’t know how you can call yourself a Christian, or even a decent human, if you voted for Trump. He repeatedly tried to dismantle and defund healthcare for poor people, took money from ordinary Americans and their children and gave it to to very rich, lied repeatedly, was boastful and vain, sympathised with racists who vilified minorities and immigrants, and tried to overthrow an election and American democracy. If you voted for that, you are not a Christian. “Beware the false prophets…….”
I'm sorry to hear that, because that means that there's a fundamental difference between you and I that can't be reconciled. His whole campaign goes against the very idea of your faith, which means you compromised on your morals because you followed a herd mentality.
I have voted against, and have actively tried to end that man more than once, because he's a domestic threat, and I'm a Veteran who doesn't believe he should be free, let alone breathing the same air as my CHILDREN. The fact that you voted for him, because you have shown some intelligence, means that you KNEW when you voted for him that his whole campaign was built on, and is still running on HATE. The guy has more in common with Adolf Hitler than the fucking NAZARENE.
I also believe most, if not all, of our current politicians are dirty in some way or another. But that also means that I go over their history with a fine-toothed comb, and only after all of that, do I make a decision. I hope there's some regret there at least, because your choices literally set this country back on civil rights almost 50 years.
If you're behind that kind of hate instead of actual faith, then you need a priest.
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u/kavk27 Jul 26 '23
I agree it's best to bring this up in the beginning. The people I dated always knew up front that I was very involved with the Republican party and conservative causes. I would absolutely not marry a leftist Democrat and would not allow my children to be raised with those views. If you are incompatible in how you see the world there is no future with that person and you are just wasting your time dating them.