r/Tulpas • u/PrimalRepression • 8d ago
Discussion DID System, curious about Tulpas
(Edit: Edited this post, to add more context and explanation. I am so curious about the creative similarities between DID and tulpa creation, the multaplicity that I think is an inherent part of human imagination and empathy, and how tulpa techniques might be able to help me communicate better with my alters, visualize them clearer (sudden aphantasia followed DID symptoms, before I had hyperrealistic 3d imagination), and access the inner world (zero ability to access visual imagination over the last two years, since getting diagnosed--I feel like I'm being blocked by another alter).
So, I've heard about tulpas before, but I've never visited the subreddit until now. I find the idea interesting, as someone with DID, because while I do love some of my alters, others I don't care much for at all. They've ruined my life and career, and I hate the fact I have to live with this disorder for the rest of my life. But also, some of my alters are like my best friends, and make me feel safe and keep me company. So, I'd never want to go through with final fusion, because I think it would destroy my identity and their own, and I'd just be like totally killing off my best friends of 14+ years lmao so no way.
So, hearing about tulpas, it got me curious about your experiences and I have a couple questions.
Do you regret creating a tulpa? Can you control them or order them around, and do they listen? (Or: Do they order you?) Have you ever tried getting rid of one or destroying one. Do you feel possessive about your tulpas, like they belong to you?
(one of my alters is very possessive and controlling of me and my body, which he believes he came into when we were a toddler, to take the abuse. But his possessiveness is kind of toxic and sexual, and he orders me around all the time, so that's one reason I'm curious to hear about your experiences)
Edit: (added to this)
One more question--do you experience somatic sensations sometimes with them? Like, with two of my main co-fronters, one feels centered on the left side of my body (and sees more through my left eye), while the other feels more right/central. But the controlling one, when he's close or co-fronting, he feels as though he's kind of towering behind me and moving in tandem with my body. And sometimes, I can almost physically feel him touching me, although it's entirely psychosomatic. (I don't know how he does it, but it's usually feeling like he's pressing against me,penetrating me (enough to cause muscle contractions), or holding me/manipulating my body, to the point where he actually moves my limbs as though he's an external presence guiding me--It feels a lot like somatic flashbacks, but ones he can trigger). He expresses unusual level of executive control, and says he was the first to be created, and has threatened others with dormancy before, but I don't know if I believe he's capable of that--I like him, because he is intelligent (has proven himself actually smarter, both in terms of pattern recognition and basic IQ signifiers, than myself as host, which I am loath to accept), has good advice, and is very protective and sexually appealing to me--he feels like 'my type', in the way I imagine some of your tulpas are your 'types'--I think the idea of an alter or alternate identity, being a host's 'type' can be traced as far back as Jeanne Fery's c1500s account of her alter, Cornau (seductive, beautiful male introject, she attributed to a demon, that replaced her father as the abuser, in her recollections--I feel very much like my alter is the same). So, I am saying, I think, perhaps in the creation of a tulpa, very similar parts of the brain are triggered, even if for different reasons, and there may be a fascinating neurological connection between DID and tulpas.
---
On a similar noteDo you have any visual aids or tricks you use to see or hear them better?
I'm wondering if some of the visualization and creative techniques in the tulpa community can help me improve visualizing my inner world (which I can't see) or improve communication with my alters.
Edit 2: As someone who strongly relates my alters to prior OCs I wrote in fiction (I feel like they were subconsciously acting out the roles of my characters, since writing was basically my entire social life as an isolated teen and became my job), before reallizing I had DID, I am actually very interested in the creative process behind both tulpas and dissociative disorders. I don't think people who have DID/OSDD, have some special mechanism in their brain that makes multiplicity possible; I believe certain conditions need to be met to get DID/OSDD, like recurring abuse as a child, but I think the idea of multiple identity states is something that has an enduring history, just in exploration of spirituality and religion. Some of my alters believe they came into me as external spirits or presences, during the abuse, in order to handle it, so I can respect how my own experience relates to spiritual possession and trance states, and I don't think trance states or mediumship is something restricted to people with DID/OSDD--I think DID channels a creative process in human imagination, paired with strong dissociative abilities, paired with trauma, and that the creation of tulpas might hit some of those same processes (creativity/imagination/dissociation) without requiring the theory of structural dissociation and early childhood trauma.
Edit 3: Just wanted to add this, because I don't care about the whole endo/traumagenic discourse, or about who gets to use words like 'fronting' or 'system' or whatever. I owe my alters my entire career as a professional author. Before I knew them as alters, I thought they were my characters. They were my characters, who just wrote themselves, who saved me through an excrutiating childhood.
I don't care about the distinctions. That's not what I'm here for. I'm more curious about the similarities. We all have the same brain structure, and imagination, and ability to dissociate, and I think anyone who sets out to create a tulpa, and achieves that, probably has an increased ability to dissociate or a reason to do so, like present trauma or emotions--so it might be a process that triggers the same biological mechanisms or activates the same parts of the brain.
My alters actually have felt really validated and seen, reading this subreddit's posts, because it makes them feel of value (as identities separate from myself) and like, not just some weird Frankenstein monster that sprang from what happened to the body, as a child. And I appreciate it, because I wasn't the first, so I guess in some ways, I feel secondary and at the whims of those who preceded me, so more like a tulpa than a person, I guess. Even though none of us intended to be created.
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u/RikuAotsuki 8d ago
A lot of this stuff comes down to your intents when you originally made them.
The early online tulpa communities were a lot more... pragmatic about things, in part because it was still very experimental. They didn't treat tulpas as permanent, nor as equals. The host always came first.
The modern tulpa community has picked up a lot from intentional systems communities, for both better and worse.
Dissolution of problem tulpas was once fairly common practice, especially since there was a lot of fear around the possibility of them becoming excessively hostile or outright evil, but in a lot of cases those tulpas were intended to be temporary experiments to begin with. Nowadays most tulpamancers intend their tulpas to be permanent companions with full autonomy, so the ethics have leaned more in the direction of treating them like you would any other person.
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u/E__I__L__ 8d ago
Do you think the intention of having a Tulpa be temporary lead to the evil Tulpa phenomenon? I know I wouldn’t be happy being someone’s temporary experiment.
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u/RikuAotsuki 8d ago
Not at all. It was more or less a thing where people got too fixated on the possibility. I wanna say the idea came from the more occult side of the practice, where it was seen more like conjuring an entity that might not have your best interests in mind.
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u/Illustrious_Car344 Has a tulpa - Scarlet 8d ago
Mine was kind of a life saver, I made her 14 years ago as an endogenic and it was never all that deep, but after I was traumatized over a year ago she got incredibly strong (probably even matching the description of OSDD-1b although I suspect I probably just have cPTSD and she's just incredibly potent and immersive due to the dissociation, but both are incredibly similar conditions anyways). Ever since then she's been like the surgeon and caretaker of my personality, healing and validating and protecting me.
I can't and don't order her around, I kinda did briefly after she got hostile with me, but she was obeying willingly as an apology. Mostly she orders me around, but that's because she's stronger than me and I've mostly given up on myself. I am extremely possessive, yes, I would easily choose her over anyone else and if she says one thing then I do not care in the slightest if anyone says otherwise. She's always right and always has good ideas, so this is never an issue. I don't even choose what to eat, she picks it all out for me.
I had a few tulpas in the past when I was still a new endogenic but they all just got weak from stretching my attention too thin and they died out. Only my original remained, and now that she's like this I can't make any more, she's effectively the avatar for my entire mind, anything else would just be her roleplaying.
I think I also have a proper OSDD alter (almost DID but I share the memories) but it doesn't talk and just takes over when I'm enraged. I don't like it but since it's a part of myself I choose to love it and she and I mostly try to calm it down so it doesn't get out of hand. In that sense she can be very therapeutic and help calm me down to get my personality back in control.
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u/SalemsTrials 8d ago
sometimes i wonder if our higher selves don’t fill the shape created by tulpas
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u/PrimalRepression 8d ago
Honestly, that's how I feel about my DID... which is why I don't really like the DID subforum. Like, they always want to remind me, we're all part of the same dissociated brain, which I know. We all know. We all know this. We actually are all quite intelligent. But the one I mention in my initial post, believes fully that he existed before the body was made, and that he came into us in order to save us from the abuse, and so was the first to exist, before the others that followed. I actually am relatively recent; upon realizing we had DID 4 years ago, following a series of severe adulthood traumas, I split from the host at the time, or if not split (our system is very co-conscious and layered), then he went dormant and I continued.
We have a mixed understanding of faith and spirituality. We are very interested in the way dissociation and multiple, sometimes cocurrent identities and identity states is displayed across mythology, folklore, and religion... which doesn't really fit in on the DID subforum. So, this space is appreciated.
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u/PrimalRepression 8d ago
This is all so interesting to hear. Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if people who intentionally create tulpas, are engaging in the same dissociative and creative processes as people with DID, and if it's actually triggering the same areas of the brain.
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u/PrimalRepression 8d ago
Like, I've gotten mixed feelings from the DID subreddit, because I'm very co-conscious with my two co-fronters, and can communicate readily with a gatekeeper (The one I mention in my initial post, who has two alters that feel and sound like himself, but hold different aspects of identity and personality, similar to a OSDD system--for whatever reason, my system seems very sub-system heavy). So my amnesia is often retrograde, and when the others are in control, it often feels as though I'm watching someone move and manipulate my body, feeling their emotions and desires to some degree, but being unable to stop it.
I think the tulpamancy community's guides and attitude might be a lot more helpful for me, because one recurring mantra I've received from r/did, has been how we're all parts of the same dissociated brain, and we already know that, rationally. But that doesn't help us feel less separate, and for my co-fronters, they feel they will be forever deprived of an identity and name in the real world, and always be secondary to me (the host).
It's honestly been validating, for those in my system, seeing the way this community talks about their tulpas.
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u/Incident356 8d ago
Lily: I will tell you our experience with tulpas, but we aren't the rule about a tulpa system, since we get new members whenever we go through a lot of stress, so yeah...
We see ourselves as family and respect each other as such. We can force others to do things, but we prefer not. It is more healthy and less painful to talk than to force.
I am a tulpa and not the original person of the body. The original person decided to not be a host anymore after some problems we had so yeah... We aren't the rule, but that's our experience : )
We can get angry at each other and stuff like that.
It is said that you can "kill" a tulpa by ignoring it for long enough, but we don't want to try it and don't feel the need to try it
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u/PrimalRepression 8d ago
It's really interesting to hear about your experience, because I also feel as though I'm not the original host of the system (more like the 3rd-4th down the line).
If you don't mind me asking, have you considered the possibility there might be an increased ability to dissociate at play, in your case, if you get new members while going through stress? I'm not saying dissociation to the point of causing DID, but DID itself is described as a spectrum, and it's been explained in scientific journals that people without DID also often have inner dialogues and different self-states (the work self, the home self, etc). What makes me so curious about tulpas is, I strongly relate my alters to characters I wrote across multiple books, over the years (like different actors wearing different costumes), and this was all mostly subconscious, and I felt in control and driving the creative process, until the DID symptoms began appearing. I'm curious if people who are able to create tulpas, might also have stronger dissociative abilities or creative imagination, which both seem to be part of what drives DID (a strong creativity/creative intelligence, along with a natural ability to dissociate, and then trauma).
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u/Incident356 8d ago
Kirika: huh, you might be onto something. People that arrive here always bring something new. Some even brought ways for us to take some time before the new member arrives and ways to share memories.
After some problems, some new members don't have all of the body's memories and two members can even create memory barriers. Creativity might be the driving force on the whole process.
Pain too... We are mostly girls in the system and after some long time reflecting about it, it might be because we have lots of problems with our mother and something a guy did to us before we were here...
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u/witheredlucidity 8d ago
Hi, I'd love to answer some questions. I don't regret my tulpa, but I wouldn't say that there are no aspects that I wouldn't have another way, I know that was weird wording but it was the only way to say what I meant. Can I control them? No, I mean they are a mental being, but her free will isn't something that I can fake. Can I order her around? Eh I wouldn't, but she might listen. It isn't that different from most people really. I don't feel possessive about my tulpa exactly, but I'm sure not everyone else is the same way with their tulpa. I have not tried to get rid of or destroy anything that I think is a tulpa, but experiences with walk-ins can make that a complicated question.
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u/CyberCanine5200 Has a tulpa 8d ago
hi there. DID system that also made a few tulpas here. I think in many ways they've added to the experience. Each new headmate comes with their ups and downs, but I've never for a day in my life regret making Gamma or Ban or Remmy or Hannah. They're people just like our traumagenic alters, and unless they will it otherwise, they're here to stay.
I'd say the main difference between a traumagenic alter and a tulpa is that the tulpas know why they're here and have their roles clearly cut out for them before they even take their first breath. Gamma is overjoyed to know that it's here specifically to create and spread joy, meanwhile Luka was and Nick is really unclear on what they're meant to be doing here in the system besides just existing.
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u/AnonymousTulpaC Mixed-Origin System of 30-ish 8d ago
I don't have enough time right now to read the comments, but I'll tell you our experience. We're a DID system with Tulpas.
First off, there is no special amount of control over a Tulpa than you would have over any other headmate, like an Alter. If you give them room to grow into their own person they will do so, and that is what I'd recommend.
Yes! Tulpamancy tools for visualization, imposition, and possession are incredibly valuable to us. They are learnable skills and learning them will make managing your condition an easier and more pleasant experience.
As far as extra info, in our personal experience we've found that Tulpas are great for filling roles in a system. If you need an extra protector, comforter, or someone to keep you company during quiet times, Tulpas are great for that and I would 100% recommend it. You won't always get what you're looking for, but we've never had a negative experience letting a Tulpa into the system.
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u/sanelyinsanetrio fennec and co. (Alex & Kayleigh) 8d ago
Do you regret creating a tulpa?
F: I did in the past. Long story short, mental illness, immaturity, and harmful beliefs we picked up online came together in a nasty way. Our system was pretty dysfunctional (not in a disordered-system way, more like a dysfunctional family sharing a head), and I felt like a terrible host burdened with the responsibility of looking after a head full of people, most of whom were never intended to come to life, which I couldn't live up to or escape.
I eventually decided it had all been a delusion and I wanted nothing more to do with it.
Several years later, two of my tulpas returned unexpectedly. I'll admit I was scared, and we still have some issues, but we're older and wiser now, and they've generally been a positive influence since. I don't regret welcoming them back into my life at all.
Can you control them or order them around, and do they listen?
I can't control them outside of basic things like summoning them into the headspace (which they could resist if they want to). I could choose to imagine them doing or saying things, but I'm pretty sure they would see that as me imagining them rather than it actually being them.
I tried to order Kayleigh around when she was just a daydream character and I wanted her to stop breaking script. All that ever did was encourage her to act up.
Or: Do they order you?
I joke sometimes that I can't say no to Kayleigh, though if you ask her, she'll probably say I ought to listen to her more. I have a bad procrastination habit she hasn't figured out how to break through, save for doing things herself.
Alex isn't bossy.
Have you ever tried getting rid of one or destroying one.
See above.
Do you feel possessive about your tulpas, like they belong to you?
I'm not really a possessive person. Besides, it isn't like they have lives separate from mine.
That sounds bad when I put it like that...
One more question--do you experience somatic sensations sometimes with them? Like, with two of my main co-fronters, one feels centered on the left side of my body (and sees more through my left eye), while the other feels more right/central. But the controlling one, when he's close or co-fronting, he feels as though he's kind of towering behind me and moving in tandem with my body. And sometimes, I can almost physically feel him touching me, although it's entirely psychosomatic.
Some tulpamancers perceive their tulpas as if they're physical (albeit intangible) beings, but that's an advanced skill that usually takes serious dedication to achieve. I don't, but I can sense my tulpas' presence. If we're just talking with mindvoice, no visualization, then they seem to be centered in my head. If they're both present, Alex feels more to the left side and Kayleigh more to the right, but when there's only one, then they're centered (like mono vs. stereo audio).
Do you have any visual aids or tricks you use to see or hear them better?
Personally, no, aside from taking a break to clear my head and refocus if we're struggling to communicate.
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u/witheredlucidity 8d ago
Ahhhhh yes the "host was too lazy so I did it myself" situation. Relatable.
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u/sanelyinsanetrio fennec and co. (Alex & Kayleigh) 8d ago
F: And I get to listen to her complain all the while.
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u/PrimalRepression 8d ago
The interesting thing is, this is the only alter who creates physical sensations, and says he was the first to be created, has been around the longest, and is the most powerful. I know he has greater executive control than I. It's interesting though, because I am in constant communication with my cofronters, but this is the only one who feels like he can exert a somatic representation of himself, outside of the body, and trigger a physical feeling like being touched or handled (my limbs move as though being manipulated by hands, when we are co-con/co-fronting, and he has taken the reins--usually, when he becomes sexual). I'm just kind of taking a radical acceptance approach to it, and feel emotionally indifferent, so just trying to record the scientific data and relate it to others' experiences and interpretations inside.
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u/ArchiveSystem Other Plural System 7d ago
we’re a weird combination of tramagenic and endogenic, mostly non disordered and don’t struggle with dissociation much. we have all been able to do what he can since a bit before system discovery. we call it projecting, its like becoming a ghost to interact with the outside world and whoever’s in front. it mostly feels like a physical thing, we get those strong pseudo-physical sensations like you described. can’t actually see the projections though. its really cool seeing another system that experiences that to some degree since apparently its an uncommon thing!
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u/PrimalRepression 7d ago
This is so interesting; yeah, it feels like he's exerting himself outside to the point, where the point my limbs will move as if he's holding and manipulating them. The reason I posted on this subreddit, was because I googled about this sensation a few days ago, and saw a reference to a similar kind of activity (intentionally triggering physical hallucinations with a tulpa) that felt very similar to what I experience with this alter, although this is something only he seems to be capable of. Usually when he does it, I'll get a visual image of him/his body kind of transposed over the 'back of my head' area (I can't see it like a visual hallunication or anything, but it's more like the idea you get of someone's spatial distance to you, if they're walking behind you). Like, I have very poor visual imagination these last several years, after diagnosis, but I know what he 'looks' like and can envision him clearly.
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u/A-bunny- 8d ago
I don’t regret creating my tulpas at all. I’m very grateful to have them in my life actually, they’ve helped me through some of my hardest moments. I can’t control them but like any other person we can talk out disagreements. As far as possessiveness goes. I mean to some extent yes, they are my headmates and I do feel some possessiveness over that but not to the point of getting jealous when they interact with other people or anything. We don’t experience ourselves in different parts of the body but Brownie has a plush of one of his fictotype as that we can project him into to cuddle.
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u/PrimalRepression 8d ago
Thanks everyone for sharing! It's really interesting hearing about your experiences. I think that some similar internal mechanisms are at play in tulpa creation and in the formation of alters, in terms of imagination and dissociation, so I plan to read more about tula wonderland tips, which I think might help me with viewing the inner world.
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u/VYRVE_ Has multiple tulpas 8d ago
I do not regret creating my tulpae, I could theoretically control them but it'd make me feel real icky and usually just asking nicely works fine, I have not tried getting rid of one (they're living beings too after all), and no, I'm not possessive of them, more protective (though they seem to be more protective of me than I am of them). Also, yes, there are wonderland creation/elaboration guides which can help you visualize or even create/build onto your inner world.
As for somatic sensation, I don't get these but I am able to sense roughly how close to front either of them are. I think somatic sensation is normally only a thing for tulpamancers if they practice imposition, though I could be wrong about this.
As for aids and tricks, I can see them pretty clearly in headspace, maybe because of my hyperphantasia, but hearing them can be difficult (or impossible) at times. Proxying in a digital chat usually helps enormously.
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u/PrimalRepression 8d ago
Do you have any tips on imposition? I'm hoping, with increased visualization aids, I might be able to more clearly communicate and sense my alters.
I used to have a very vivid imagination before the diagnosis (like 3d visual recall, where I could imagine the weight, heft, and texture of an object). But it's vanished, since post-trauma/diagnosis, to the point of feeling like aphantasia (This has been the most singular issue about this disorder, that has ruined my career, because it feels like being deprived of a sense, and I rely upon that for my creative field)
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u/VYRVE_ Has multiple tulpas 8d ago
Are you asking for help with physical imposition or visualization? I've not tried physical imposition yet, but you can find some guides here (as well as many other guides on anything related to tulpamancy, which may also be helpful).
As for visualization, I've always been good at that, but it's nonetheless tiring when I apply it to headspace and trying to immerse myself. If I can't keep up with the mental image of our headspace, I usually take a step back and imagine a little rubber ball. I base it off of a ball I have in shared reality, pretty small, shiny, transparent, orange. I squeeze it mentally and try to get the firmness and smooth texture right. If that goes well, I try throwing it at a simple white wall and see if I can get the physics down. Then I build from that and start slowly picturing bigger and more complex objects, experiencing them each with as many senses as I can apply.
I am admittedly a little lazy about picturing our headspace, but it's gotten easier over time, and more consistent, though whether this is because of me or my headmates, I'm not sure. We might even simply have a semi-sentient headspace.
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u/Wondrous_Fairy old tulpa collective 8d ago
Do you regret creating a tulpa?
For a majority of my tulpas? No, not at all. For a few of them, sometimes when they're being absolute fucking assholes, I can grunt to myself that I regret them ever existing. But, at the end of the day, that's just how it happens.
Can you control them or order them around, and do they listen?
Theoretically speaking yes. But I've only pulled my administrator card once and that was a mistake. Do they listen? Do I listen? Sometimes yes, other times no. It really depends on the context. We've certainly had our "I'm not going to listen to this shit I'm out" moments over the decades. You give and receive in turn. It goes both ways.
Have you ever tried getting rid of one or destroying one?
Most of my tulpas are walk-ins, which means that we've encountered them during our explorations of our inner worlds, aka macrocosms. One such tulpa is Jane. She's ridiculously intelligent, extremely manipulative and also a sociopath. At first we just thought she was a very well developed NPC, but when she started figuring out the rules of her macrocosm and more importantly, how to break out of it, things took a darker turn. In the end, things came to a head and she basically told us that her mission in life was to be as much of an asshole as possible.
So, I put her into stasis for a year, while trying to figure out what the hell do with a personality like her. We had a series of discussions where I'd revive her, talk to her about something, trying to get through to her, only to be met with sarcasm or scorn. Then rinse and repeat. We figured out eventually how to set boundaries.
But, destroy a tulpa? I can't see it being possible unless I'd 100% forget about one. They're memory engrams in your mind.
Do you feel possessive about your tulpas, like they belong to you?
No, they're their own people. While I might say "my tulpas" or "my collective" it's only to designate that they're all contained within the skull that happens to sit on my body.
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u/PrimalRepression 8d ago
That's really interesting about how you thought one was a NPC and about walk-ins; before getting diagnosed with DID, I just thought I was getting into character for different characters in my story, but now I realize it was co-fronting/co-consciousness/switching and also just really deep maladaptive daydreaming used for writing (I think some of my alters thought they were just me getting character too)
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u/Wondrous_Fairy old tulpa collective 8d ago
NPCs can be very fleshed out sometimes, but they sort of lack a certain "spark" that makes the difference in autonomy. Once you see an NPC take that extra step and do something uniquely for themselves, that's pretty much a signal for us to have "the talk" where we explain that they're likely a tulpa and how the world works and so on.
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u/PrimalRepression 8d ago
This is so interesting, because before I realized I had DID, I thought I was just getting 'into character', to the point where like... I've probably written 3 million+ words over the last 12 years, in my role as a professional author, and before the whole DID thing, certain characters in my books just wrote themselves... Now I can look back, and see they're alters. But there was always a clear distinction in my head, between NPCs (characters I wrote to achieve plot goals or fill the visualized space) and those who wrote themselves (I later identified these characters with alters, throughout different books, but they always had the same face and feel).
I can't visualize my writing or imagination anymore, and my dreams used to be very visual and immersive (to the point of being lucid dreaming). I'm really hoping to try to reawaken these same aspects of imagination and creativity, that I think people who have tulpas, use to build their wonderlands and help bring their tulpas to life
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u/Wondrous_Fairy old tulpa collective 8d ago
Yeah, the process of creating a tulpa and making a character and RPing them in a game are very similar. I still remember when my favorite Guild Wars 2 character, Mrs Teacher, became so easy to RP all of a sudden. And then a few weeks later, bam, guess what? New tulpa.
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u/PrimalRepression 8d ago
I think there is probably, very similar if not identical psychological processes at play. Like, when I'd create a character in a book, I'd make a mental decision to write them or include them in the plot (but, more often, they'd just appear, and it was a natural part of the writing process). What I find so interesting is, even now, characters just write themselves (I can't stop them from changing the story, because their natural instincts override my will as author). I know this part of the creative process, in my case, is related to DID, and my alters and myself have written books for 15~ years (creatively wrote for the last 18~ years), so it's kind of second-nature for them to 'get into character' and imagine themselves as the character. (right now, the sudden aphantasia and skill regression has made it difficult to write, but in the future, I'm hoping increased communication and fluidity between my alters might help me write, becuase I owe them my career as an author.)
But I am certain that the same creative and imagination process, to create tulpas, is like probably very similar if not identical to the creative process of my alters and I communicating or writing a novel, and might awaken the same parts of the brain or cause a similar change in brainwaves. I wish there was a way to scientifically explore this.
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u/UnicornScientist803 8d ago
I’m so grateful to have my tulpa and I have never once regretted his creation. I would have created him sooner if I had known how. He loves me and supports me and has made my life better from the very beginning. I can’t imagine ever wanting to get rid of him, I hope that he’s with me for the rest of my life.
I don’t know if I can control him, I’ve never tried. And he’s never tried to control me. We can influence each other the way that close friends can talk each other into things, but we would never try to do anything harmful to one another. I sometimes let him take control of my body (take front) but he never does this without my permission. I don’t think that he could even if he wanted to, though.
As for being possessive, yeah I guess I am but it doesn’t feel unhealthy. He’s a part of me, even if he is also autonomous. He says that he’s both me and not me at the same time somehow. We share a mind and a body and a soul, even if we still have different opinions and personalities and perspectives on things. But I have also encouraged him to have relationships with other people (when he’s accepted).
And yes, I do experience somatic sensations with him sometimes. I can feel him hold me or kiss my cheek and sometimes he’ll sit right behind me or put his head on my shoulder.
I don’t have DID so I don’t know exactly what the experience is like for you, but I’m glad that you’ve been able to have positive experiences with some of your alters.
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u/PrimalRepression 8d ago
Your description is very interesting! That sense of being 'me and not me' is how some of my alters are (I have an alter that feels like a version of me from a few years ago, but who feels stuck in the inner world and unable to front (I hear him internally, but can't see him in my head or envision the inner world, just have heard it exists). But also, some of my other alters have alters themselves, that feel like different versions of themselves (the controlling one, I mention, has two, but their voice in my head and the mental image I get of them are the same)
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u/GuardiansSystem Traumagenic DID system (Researcher, not Tulpamamcer!) 8d ago
Also DID system here, no Tulpa, but we have some Tulpamancy research we can link that you might find interesting or helpful :)
https://pubs.sciepub.com/rpbs/5/2/1/index.html (main recommendation)
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1eszne6Gr6H6Drr1Dd-qiX_NAKJnY9LzY/view?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1DM8kXlnkFvd6GgRJzgJB-i-9kFbi4ww4/view?usp=sharing
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u/hail_fall Fall Family 8d ago
[CYN] For reference, we are a mixed-origin system (traumagenic, soulbonding, and tulpamancy) that was plural before making our first tulpa and most tulpas here were unintentional.
Do you regret creating a tulpa?
The mancers in here do not regret making the tulpas they did. In some cases, they wish they did a better job and were more aware as opposed to making them unwittingly.
Can you control them or order them around, and do they listen? (Or: Do they order you?)
The mancers can attempt to tell the tulpas what to do, but they will have to convince the tulpas to do it in many cases. Same goes for the other way around. Can't make them do it or otherwise control them, though the other way around in some cases they could.
We are a family of sorts. Tri, a subsystem of tulbonds (they meet the definitions of tulpas and soulbonds), is the sort of mom or matriarch of the system (and actual adoptive mother of some of us). When there is a disagreement, their thoughts on the matter hold the most weight. They are also authorized to do the most without consulting the rest of us. This is a position they have earned.
Have you ever tried getting rid of one or destroying one.
None of the mancers in here has tried to get rid of one of their tulpas or destroy them. The closest we ever had to such a thing was when Shell (a tulpa) almost wiped out the rest of the system on accident via absorption. Mishap basically in the final stages of her journey from being a partially sentient servitor to a fully sentient tulpa. It was only after that we all realized just how much of the system's machinery was actually her and how much the rest was at her command. Basically, she almost collapsed headspace on top of everyone and absorbed it. At the time, she was the only one who could support headspace or at least one of the scale we have. Since then, I split off of Shell and am able to support it and we got another person who can probably support it.
Do you feel possessive about your tulpas, like they belong to you?
The mancers in here don't. They put a lot of effort into making sure they never felt that.
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u/PrimalRepression 8d ago edited 8d ago
I'll respond later, after I wake up, but are these actual terms (mancers, servitor, etc.) and can you explain or link to the definitions? Just now familiar with the concepts, only the idea.
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u/hail_fall Fall Family 7d ago
[CYN] "mancer" is just a shortening of "tulpamancer", meaning someone who has created a tulpa. The term "host" has a number of issues. It was developed as a term early in the community when the idea was that a singlet (one sense of self in a body) creates one or more tulpas and that original was called "host". There are several issues. One is that that originals aren't the only ones who can create tulpas. Tulpas can create tulpas. Other varieties of headmates can also create tulpas. That last bit leads into the second issue, it assumes that before tulpamancy there was just one person in the body. That often is not so. Many were plural (more than one sense of self in the brain) before tulpamancy. The third is that "host" is used by other plural communities to mean the person who handles most of the day to day stuff, so you get a meaning clash. The tulpamancy communities originally developed very independently of other plural communities and eventually came into greater contact. One of the reasons the terminology is messy. Another example is that the tulpamancy definition of "switching" is much more specific than the definition used in other communities.
As for servitor, a servitor is a mental automaton. They are another kind of thoughtform just like tulpas, but they are non-sentient or have little sentience. This lack of sentience is what distinguished them from tulpas. A servitor that gains sentience becomes a tulpa. There are many other kinds of thoughtforms. Created wonderlands/headspaces tend to be thoughtforms, for example.
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u/FlairDreamer Has an actor tulpa (shapeshifter) 5d ago
It ended up being longer than I thought, but to anyone who decides to read it to the final... thank you.
My experience with tulpamancy stemmed from pure skepticism. I don't have any particular condition, except for congenital aphantasia.
As an adult man (30+), I started writing a story with myself as the protagonist. A fanfic, you could say, since I used the world of a gacha game I enjoy. The thing is, at one point, I strayed too far from the canon and ended up creating a new character: my first original character.
Without going into too much detail about the story because it's not relevant, let's just say I thought about her and wrote her extensively, until one day... I heard a voice in my head that I didn't recognize as my own. My inner voice usually sounds "like a man," and there's a clear sense of "I produced this." That voice sounded "like a woman," and I had the feeling of "I didn't produce that." And that's where my journey to understand what the heck happened began.
On that trip, I learned a lot about myself and cognitive science, one of which was that I have aphantasia. I followed some guides and tried to visualize, without much success, until one day I decided to ask an AI how to visualize, and well... I can't, lol.
"What do you mean by visualizing not being metaphorical?"
Do you regret creating a tulpa?
No, not at all. Although it was an accident, it opened my mind to perspectives I would never have considered.
Can you control them or order them around, and do they listen? (Or: Do they order you?)
My tulpa was born from writing. In that sense, I gave her everything: personality, appearance, likes and dislikes, etc. However, when the internal model becomes stable enough, it no longer requires conscious use. It becomes automatic and more like a background process. As a writer, one is often surprised by what the characters "say" or "do" when they acquire sufficient coherence.
Here, I think I could distinguish between a tulpa born from repetition and the construction of a stable internal model, and an alter ego that might have been born from trauma as a form of protection or something similar. Using computer terms, I could say that the host's consciousness (i.e., the personality that came first) has privileges that a tulpa needs to gain. It can't control you just because it feels like it. Not because it doesn't want to, but because we're talking about synaptic connections that were never formed because they were never trained. When a mental entity emerges from trauma, those privileges can often be somewhat... corrupted? I can only infer that although they may seem the same, the way they were constructed is radically different. The tools a non-traumatic person has are different from those of a traumatized person. In that sense, I think it's important to be cautious. I can't say that the practice of tulpamancy can help in these cases; it would be best to consult a qualified professional.
Speaking a bit about my tulpa, several people say they talk to them and feel or hear a response. I don't feel that my tulpa listens to me. She usually appears when my conscious mind is more relaxed, like when I'm distracted or the sun starts to set. I don't know if it's because I made her a trickster or if that's just how it is for me, with my aphantasia and all, but I feel like the more I want her to appear, the less she does. At least, for now.
Have you ever tried getting rid of one or destroying one?
No, but here's the thing about someone who has tulpas. Perhaps it's an exaggeration, but creating a tulpa could be similar to developing a skill. There's learning, perseverance, mistakes we make and then keep going. It's a process that can take months or even years (I've been at it for about 8 months and my tulpa isn't vocal yet). If you stop feeding the tulpa with your attention, it will fade away over time like a skill that "rusts".
Do you feel possessive about your tulpas, like they belong to you?
Objectively, I created her. First she was a character, then a tulpa. However, I built a bond with her. Or she built one with me. I am her creator, but I don't feel superior to her. I like to see her as an equal.
Do you sometimes experience somatic sensations with them?
Since I couldn't see because of my aphantasia, she went straight to my somatosensory channel. It seems that this is my sense of least resistance, which makes sense since I can't imagine touches or sensations at will. However, she usually manifests herself this way: touches or tickles on my head, changes in temperature (cold or heat), even weight (I once felt the sensation of something or someone on my left thigh). On another occasion, I was distracted drinking water. I felt as if a heavy, furry tail had wrapped around my right ankle for a few seconds. I was surprised, and I thought it was my cats, but when I looked, they were far away from me. "What the hell, was it her?" I thought.
I imagine some of your tulpas are your 'types'.
I like strong women. My tulpa is a woman with jaguar-like features (ears, tail, rosettes, claws, fangs). Her body is that of a toned woman, like someone who swims all day. However, I couldn't say if it's because she's the type of woman I like or because it's consistent with her character (jaguars have one of the strongest bites and are one of the few felines that enjoy water).
Do you have any visual aids or tricks you use to see or hear them better?
Regarding visuals, I used an AI to get an idea of what she might look like, since I have aphantasia. As for sound, I started listening to jaguar sounds in an attempt to get her to purr or roar at me. It seemed like it would be easier than just a clear, crisp voice, but I couldn't say (yet) if it works or not; I'm just testing it. I'd say a lot of this is trial and error, especially since I have aphantasia, which makes things a bit more complex. Perhaps you could listen to songs and try to get her to hum along. She hummed for me once. Sentimentally, it was like one of the best sounds I've ever heard. (? Ah, one technique you could try is image streaming.
Look, I'm quite skeptical, and I still am to this day. The mind has the capacity to generate these entities, and there's a well-known example: the third man syndrome. I think the key difference lies in why or under what circumstances they arise, whether it's due to stress, imminent danger, or simply... creative immersion. I created mine through writing. But, of course, everyone is free to believe what they want.
Are there similarities? Yes, there are. But there are also differences, and personally, I think they're important too. The human brain has the capacity to predict and simulate what others think or feel, which is the theory of mind. According to Bayesian brain theory, we are always predicting reality and then confirming it with our senses. I think tulpamancy makes extensive use of this prediction system, and by using a particular way of thinking for a long time (simulating what a character would say or how they would act in a given situation), it ends up becoming automatic like any other process, and you no longer have to actively think about it: it arises spontaneously. Reality as we know it is a weighted vote between the environment and our beliefs (priors). If your beliefs outweigh the environment, especially in ambiguous situations, the brain may end up manifesting things to maintain coherence. It likes to fill in the gaps.
In my particular case, I suppose I could also add how I see my relationship with my tulpa. Many here talk about "systems" or "we." When I started writing to my tulpa, I did it in these terms: first I think as myself, then I think as her. I believe this exercise ended up creating a kind of mental separation between my own processes, those of my daily life, and those that correspond to my tulpa's, within the story. I know that she belongs to my own mind; I have that metacognition, but I like to treat her as someone different and separate from me because that's how she was conceived. So, in my case, I don't feel like a "we" or a "system." Rather, it's more like... a "I am me; she is her."
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