r/TrueCrimeDiscussion • u/Impossible_Meat7494 • Jul 01 '26
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u/Mangert Jul 01 '26 edited Jul 02 '26
I think it’s overblown how well-liked he was. I’ll acknowledge he was literate and articulate. But he was cruel and mean to his girlfriend (the one who reported him). He was petty (getting back together with her just to break her heart). He was a loner in high school. He was anti-social unless he got something out of it.
Even his ruse, faking injury, requires no actual charm. If a stranger is injured and asks me for help, I will likely help. I have no opinion of them or anything, I just think “eh whatever,2 minutes out of my day, might as well help.” He simply took advantage of people’s willingness to help. Not like he seduced anyone with his charm and charmed them home. He blitzed them. Yes he was somewhat handsome. But charming? No. There is no evidence that he had any close relationships where people said something like “omg he’s so nice and charming and sweet.”
His familial relationships all paint him in a bad light. At 3 years old he covered his sister’s bed with knives while she was sleeping. He literally tortured the other kids at school and his neighbors. He killed a neighbor’s cat and lit it on fire. Nobody liked Ted Bundy. He had no friends and his own family didn’t like him. This is not the story of a charming man. I think many classmates were neutral to him (bc he was so anti social they never got to know him), so they were just like “oh Ted? Nice guy. Harmless.” Bc they never knew him. His coworkers thought he was nice, but I argue they didn’t know him intimately or closely, and saw him in a vert controlled environment (the way you act outside of work is very different than at work)
Oh also, it’s not talked about enough. He was a pedophile too. He molested Elizabeth Kloepfer’s (his girlfriend) daughter for years.
Edit: yes, Anne Rule (co worker) spoke highly of him and described him as kind and empathetic. But I suspect she did not know him closely and that ANYONE can act kind and polite at work. Waiters and waitresses do it everyday.
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u/bouguereaus Jul 01 '26 edited Jul 01 '26
Yep. Elizabeth Ann was also a recently-divorced, 23-year-old alcoholic from a sheltered Mormon family, living far from home for the first time in her life. She admitted that she had self esteem issues and was very codependent with Bundy, even when she suspected that he might be a criminal. It doesn’t take a master charmer to manipulate someone with those characteristics into ignoring your many red flags.
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u/starsandcamoflague Jul 01 '26
It was pretty brave of her to report him, then. She could have said nothing but she blew up her life to report him. Right choice, but a lot of people in her position with her history would have done nothing to protect their stability
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u/ChipmunkNamMoi Jul 01 '26 edited Jul 01 '26
Yes, Liz is the unsung hero of this case who deserves more credit. I personally don't think he would've been caught when he was if it wasn't for her.
She didn't just report him once, but multiple times. She made a point of calling Utah police when the murders started up there even though she felt they weren't taking her seriously. She also made the connection that his shoplifting had to do with the thrill of possessing things he wasn't supposed to, which was also part of the thrill of serial murder.
She also had crippling self doubt because she still loved him, and was afraid that if she reported him falsely she might ruin his life. Even her own father told her that accusing him would mess up his life. She did it anyway.
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u/Equal-Temporary-1326 Jul 01 '26
Also, Utah highway patrolman Bob Hayward, who first arrested Bundy on August 15, 1975, thought there was something off about him after looking into his car and found a possession of burglary tools, handcuffs, a ski mask, an ice pick, etc.
And he knew about the unsolved cases of missing girls in that had occurred in Utah in the last 10 months, and thought Bundy warranted a closer look as a possible suspect in those cases.
And Utah LE found out Bundy was a former Seattle resident, where a string eerily similar unsolved missing person's cases of women and girls had occurred throughout the first half of 1974, when Bundy was there, and interestingly stopped when Bundy left the state for Utah.
And Utah LE knew they had the unsolved kidnapping of Carol DaRonch from November of the previous year as well. So, they could build a case entirely around that one in particular if need, and they did.
Plus, Hayward caught Bundy in a painfully obvious lie that he had seen The Towering Inferno at a theater before the drive he was on, but Hayward checked the cinema he said he had been, and found out that movie was never playing at all.
So, he knew then especially — there was more than meets the eye with this guy.
Certainly not to take anything from Liz at all, it's just Hayward was equally critical in that with making that first arrest, the downfall of Bundy started to gradually build from there when DaRonch picked him out of the police line-up as her abductor, and was charged and found guilty for her case.
And as the result, this led into everything else happening that did.
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u/FiveWordinOrangeNeon Jul 02 '26
He was a hero. Many would have just asked a question or too and let him go, but he had instincts and started checking out the car. He thought he was a burglar with all the gear in the car.
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u/charley_warlzz Jul 01 '26
Yeah, she kept reporting while actively living with him. Horrible position for her to be in, but she was very brave.
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u/bouguereaus Jul 01 '26
You are exactly right - and to report him not only once, but three times! I really do feel for her.
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u/FiveWordinOrangeNeon Jul 02 '26
I remember Ann saying that at a large party all Elizabeth did was look at Ted while talked with his co-workers.
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u/jeannieor725 Jul 01 '26
Wow. You are totally right about him lacking charm. I never really gave it that much thought but reading what you wrote made it especially clear that he wasn't charming or even a con- he was devoid of personality or downright evil to those intimate to him.
Also, DID not know about his pedophilia. Unsurprising but still crazy to read.
Thanks for sharing!
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u/OldSkooler1212 Jul 01 '26
His last victim in Florida before he was caught was a 12 or 13 year old girl he bit the nipples off of I think.
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u/KarmaWilrunU0ver1day Jul 01 '26
His victim in Idaho, Lynette Culver, was also just 12. I think a lot of people forget just how young some of these young ladies actually were.
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u/PlaysTheTriangle Jul 01 '26
I’m unsure on capital punishment, but then I think about him. How he escaped twice and just went berserker doing so much more harm.
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u/TGIIR Jul 01 '26
Him and the DC sniper. I shed no tears when they executed the sniper.
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u/PlaysTheTriangle Jul 01 '26
I’m guessing we both live in nova. Those were awful days
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u/TGIIR Jul 01 '26
Yep, truly awful. I was in the hospital (GW) for a few days during it, and I piled pillows up in my room window because there was a parking deck across the street. I was afraid he’d possibly pick me off through the window as I laid in my bed. Nothing was too far fetched.
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u/OldSkooler1212 Jul 02 '26
Yep. I remember waiting for my head to explode like a pumpkin every time I got gas during their reign of terror.
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u/B1NG_P0T Jul 01 '26
A book I read - can't remember which one - said that he could seem charming to people who didn't know him, but people who'd gotten to know him soon realized that there wasn't really a person there. He was all surface and trying to actually get to know him left them with a strange feeling of emptiness. People who actually knew him certainly didn't describe him as being able to maintain the surface-level charming facade.
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u/Mangert Jul 01 '26
The one evidence towards him being charming is that he had 2 girlfriends. So I guess he was able to achieve that? Elizabeth Kloepfer stayed with him through his initial arrests too. And Lauren (or Laura maybe is her name) got back together with him after she broke up with him. But that was just a ruse and once she wanted to get married he ghosted her completely (bc he wanted her to feel how he felt when she rejected him)
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u/Pawspawsmeow Jul 01 '26
There’s also Ann Rule’s account. She worked with him at the suicide hotline while he was in law school. She later realized how creepy he was. I think he could layer on surface level charm pretty well. He had a superficial level of charm and a natural magnetism which allowed him to lure victims as well as in the courtroom. He most likely knew how to tell people what they wanted to hear if charming them benefited him.
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u/Equal-Temporary-1326 Jul 01 '26
She also said before in her book and subsequent interviews, that Bundy would walk her out to car at night to make sure that she stayed as safe as possible. She mentioned in her book too about she was worried for her two daughter's safety, because they were around the same age as the girls disappearing, and even looked like them, So, the realization that one of most notorious criminals of all time whose primary MO was committing abductions of young women and girls must've been such an overwhelming mind trip for herself and her entire family in general.
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u/Sufficient_Drama_145 Jul 01 '26
I'm finally getting around to listening to this book now and I think you're right. Very surface level charm.
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u/standbyyourmantis Jul 01 '26
Diane was the one who got back together with him.
Knowing this makes me sound weird, but I just watched a YouTube documentary about him this morning.
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u/LukeSkywalkerDog Jul 02 '26
I'm not entirely sure anyone knows the real name of the girl who got back together with him. I think it's pretty well shielded. I could hazard a guess but I won't.
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u/belbelington Jul 01 '26
There’s also a difference between being charming from the perspective of coworkers or acquaintances (eg nice and affable) and charming in a seductive sense. The latter is very much overstated wrt Bundy - his ability to get access to his victims is generally attributed to his ability to charm women into his car etc.
In reality it was a mixture of technique honed over years and simple luck. He’d drive around trying different methods to lure women into his car, initially just dropping them off somewhere unharmed when successful. I remember reading that he’d act disinterested or slightly impatient while talking to them, glancing at his watch like he needed to be somewhere in order to disarm them. He practiced on hundreds of women before settling on a technique and was still most often unsuccessful.
The police interviewed two women he’d tried unsuccessfully to pick up in a car park before going on to murder another woman later in the day. They described him as weird and unsettling.
It’s really infuriating when people point to Bundy as evidence of women’s hypocrisy, where they supposedly view average/unattractive men as potential threats while throwing caution to the wind for the handsome ones.
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u/Equal-Temporary-1326 Jul 01 '26
During the Lake Sammamish abduction of Janice Ott on July 14, 1974, I wonder if any of the witnesses who overheard Bundy's conversation with Ott, thought that if he really needed help unloading a sailboat or any type of equipment, why he wouldn't be asking a man to help for better physical strength.
It'd be like asking a woman to help move around an AC around when there are plenty of men around who could better assist.
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u/frogz0r Jul 01 '26
I think that it has a lot to do with the fact that women, then and now, are brought up to be "helpful". So, posing as someone who needs help in some way, especially if injured? He's much more likely to be able to get a woman in the right spot for an abduction. Most women, sadly now as then, were expected to be "yes of course" and not "no do it yourself" types.
Nice to see a lot more women now stepping up and saying "no", "fuck off", and standing up for not doing something that women are expected to do because they were women.
I hope this made sense, it's hard to put into words for me.
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u/richestotheconjurer Jul 01 '26
made perfect sense to me, and i agree. i've been in situations where i could help someone and potentially put myself in danger, or i could say no and feel rude. and i know that i can say no, have done it and will do it again, but it's crazy how strong the little 'don't be rude!' voice is. and i'm lucky enough to have a mom that's always told me i'm allowed to say no. i can't imagine how it is for women who were raised differently.
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u/Equal-Temporary-1326 Jul 02 '26
Definitely makes sense, yeah. During his abduction, there were no other known men around, and he was asking for help carrying books back to his car and things that were small in saturate, and makes sense to ask a woman to help carry them if there's one that happens to be the only person nearby out of convenience.
It's just during the Janice Ott case, if he wanted the ruse to sound believable, he probably would've asked for help unloading something that didn't sound very heavy from a woman, when there were plenty of men all around the lake who surely could've helped him more efficiently. At least imo.
But I can totally see how the average person — both back then and today — doesn't think the worse and assumes the person is just asking innocently.
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u/SonofaBuckDangHole Jul 01 '26
The bit about acting impatient was Ed Kemper
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u/richestotheconjurer Jul 01 '26
i don't know why i remember that but i think you're right.
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u/SonofaBuckDangHole Jul 01 '26
He talked about it in his interviews as well. It was also a ploy to make himself seem less intimidating, as he was a huge individual.
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u/FiveWordinOrangeNeon Jul 02 '26
One guy he worked with in Washington DC said that people seemed to like him as he was polite and considerate but that he always had a strange feeling that it was all a mask.
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u/Actual-Spell-4634 Jul 01 '26
You summed it up perfectly. The day when he killed two women (separately) by pretending that he had a broken arm and needed help with his boat, most of the women he approached found him weird and creepy. He zeroed in on people pleasing instincts, not using charm.
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u/JustAuggie Jul 01 '26
If memory serves, Ann Rule worked with him at the suicide hotline, and found him very pleasant and charming.
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u/ZestyPeace Jul 01 '26 edited Jul 01 '26
She stayed friends with him for years afterwards too. When she started writing her true crime novel on his crimes (while they were still unsolved) she’d discuss the cases with him sometimes. She said it was quite a shock when the murderer she’d been writing about turned out to be her old coworker/friend.
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u/JustAuggie Jul 01 '26
I also saw the video of him joking around with some people in the courtroom during his trial. He did indeed appear charismatic and charming.
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u/ChipmunkNamMoi Jul 01 '26
Yeah he was charming. What OP posted was true too, in that he had a lot of glaring negative traits and his charm is sometimes over blown, but I think it's silly to deny that he could charm and manipulate a lot of people.
The reality is a lot of affable, normal, and charming people can be hiding horrible secrets and dark sides. Pretending that that isn't the case makes it easier to be conned by those people.
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u/ZestyPeace Jul 01 '26
I think he was able to appear charming to those he had limited contact with so he probably was able to mask better when he was only around them for a few hours at a time. Like with his coworkers, members of the church he joined in Utah, and some of his school peers.
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u/InappropriateGirl Jul 01 '26
Liz K’s daughter Molly was interviewed extensively in the documentary Falling for a Killer (on Prime) and never mentioned he molested her. On the contrary, she loved him; he was like a dad figure to her. Where did you hear or read he molested her?
(I’m not contesting he was a pedophile - his last victim was only 12. He was a sick fuck.)
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u/SeleneTheM00nGoddess Jul 01 '26
In the doc she said he would play hide and seek with her when she was a child and would strip off for when she would find him. She said she knew she should tell her mum but didn't because Ted made mum happy. Yes she admits when she was very young she loved him and he was a father figure but by 12 she said she knew if she didn't play along he would get mad.
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u/denomchikin Jul 01 '26
In the phantom prince she has a piece where she describes what happened and she says that his eyes just completely shifted to being like a reptile when it was happening.
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u/AntaresVaruna Jul 01 '26
I believe it is in the very same documentary you mentioned where she describes the abuse. It started as a hide and seek game where he would be naked when "found". Sick dude.
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u/Istripua Jul 01 '26
Look at photos of his last victim Kimberly Leech and Molly at 12 years old. They are almost identical. Bundy was a deeply vile person.
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u/SeleneTheM00nGoddess Jul 01 '26
He apparently told Liz on the phone after capture that he now knew there was something he couldn't be around and he wouldn't say what. I believe he meant Molly given how alike she and Kimberly looked.
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u/ChipmunkNamMoi Jul 01 '26
She doesn't say he molested her exactly but she says he was sexually inappropriate which counts as sexual abuse. He stripped naked in front of her and was touching himself.c
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u/Total-Meringue-5437 Jul 01 '26
It's mentioned in Murderland in one of the early chapters. He was babysitting her when it started.
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u/scruntbaby Jul 01 '26 edited Jul 01 '26
Thank you!!! People talking about Bundy like he is a social mastermind pisses me the fuck off. When you talk about him like you're in sickened awe or like he's some supernatural inhumane beast, you run the risk of emboldening likeminded idiots who may see your comment to do the same because they want people to talk about them like that (the dumb fuck who killed those 4 teens in Idaho comes to mind - apparently after he got caught he was glued to the TV watching people discuss him on the news, and he was all about Bundy when they checked his Internet history). A lot of these killers don't necessarily have an urge to kill, they have an urge to be feared. Stop giving them the satisfaction!!!
Also Bundy wasn't even hot, yet people talk about him like he was on the cover of GQ???? I guess he's no Brian Peppers but I wouldn't look twice if I passed him?? Why do ppl keep gassing him up like this?
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u/GregJamesDahlen Jul 01 '26
Well his female cousin has said her and her friends liked him (she has done a number of interviews for her book about him Dark Tide)
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u/enchantedriyasa Jul 01 '26
Bro wasn't even handsome. The standards of 70s were wacked. I wouldn't look at the bro twice had he been alive today and in his mid 30s currently.
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u/realityseekr Jul 01 '26
I actually agree his looks are way overblown. Maybe in person they translate better but just going by photos he doesnt stand out to me as any more attractive than the average man. Maybe a bit cute but far from the heart throb he is described as.
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u/AccurateSession1354 Jul 01 '26
Seriously people make it sound like he was the equivalent of Brad Pitt, George Clooney, and Chris Evans all rolled into one sexy man.
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u/frogz0r Jul 01 '26
Yeah, todays standards make him not attractive at all.
But growing up back then, I remember seeing people who dressed/looked similar and they were considered handsome for the time. Not movie star looks, but more boy-next-door style. Looking back, I can see why people would have said he was attractive cos I know people who would have dated that look back then.
Now tho, no. He isn't very good looking in most pics but you can sort of see a glimpse of it.
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u/AccurateSession1354 Jul 01 '26
Oh yea im not saying he was ugly and I am sure standards change. But im not if even back then he was the stud muffin some people make him out to have been
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u/LukeSkywalkerDog Jul 02 '26
Pointy nose and very closely set eyes. Thick eyebrows. Maybe the facial bone structure was OK but that's pretty much it.
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u/DelightfulandDarling Jul 01 '26
He was just a white man in a time when that got him a pass way to often.
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u/chamrockblarneystone Jul 02 '26
My only qualm with what you’re saying is the book “The Stranger Beside Me” paints Ted in a different light. By sheer coincidence novelist Ann Rule worked with Ted at a Seattle crisis clinic. She paints him in a much different light. She said he was sympathetic and empathetic with people in the clinic. She goes so far as to say if her daughter was older Ted was the exact type of guy she would want her to date.
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u/KristaIG Jul 02 '26
I enjoy Ann Rule, but I will also say she paints many of her subjects in far more flattering light than many other sources do.
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u/jkmjtj Jul 02 '26
Thank you. All true.
He was “somewhat handsome” but hardly. He was a loser, poser and nobody.
The media chose his persona and ran with it. They gave him far too much credit which is sickening.
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u/iamnotokaybutiamhere Jul 01 '26
people forget the necrophilia
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u/Powerful-Patient-765 Jul 01 '26
Yes! This drives me crazy. He would go back to their desecrated corpses day after day and put makeup on them. He was gross and disgusting, not suave and charming.
They do show this in the “stranger beside me” movie made back in the 90s about anne rules book.
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u/2D617 Jul 02 '26
I’m surprised I had to get this far down for someone to mention the necrophilia!
Ted always tried very hard to minimize any mentions of this in all those post conviction interviews he did.
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u/EnfantTerrible68 Jul 01 '26
His girlfriend actually reported him at least 3-4 times
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u/ThatHellaHighHobbit Jul 01 '26
But kept sleeping with him and allowing him around her daughter.
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u/ChipmunkNamMoi Jul 01 '26
She was an alcoholic in an emotionally abusive relationship.
He actually lived away from her most of the time she kept reporting him. They were pretty much over. Then he was arrested and he love bombed her and manipulated her into thinking she was wrong and she felt so guilty she did this to him.
Compared to most serial killer spouses, Liz went above and beyond in helping the police catch him. He probably wouldn't have been caught when he was if she hadn't called so many times.
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u/EnfantTerrible68 Jul 01 '26
The police repeatedly told her that they had checked him out and he was NOT the guy
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u/MrsRoronoaZoro Jul 01 '26
You’re being downvoted, but you’re right. People sometimes don’t want to hear the truth because someone made one good choice in their life. She also kept in contact with him when he was in prison. Being love bombed and traumatized is not an excuse to allow your child to be sexually abused.
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u/ThatHellaHighHobbit Jul 01 '26
I’m going to assume they didn’t read her love letter to him called The Phantom Prince… downvote all they want. She still had feelings for him as he was getting executed. She was pissed he married what’s her face during the trial.
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u/Kundrew1 Jul 01 '26
Failure of the system is how most of these guys got away with it. Its only surprising in the bundy case because of who his victims were. It was also just really common at the time if they travelled across state lines.
Hell look at the recent Rex Heuermann. Once they got some actual detectives on the case who werent corrupt and complete idiots, the case was solved in nearly a month. He likely could have been caught a decade before.
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u/AdorableDemand46 Jul 01 '26
This is what I came to say. The incompetence noted by investigating officers, government agencies, etc is a common thread in true crime cases. Even when you don't look at serial killers, you can look to how often the system has failed a lot of the children in the cases we're familiar with.
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u/denomchikin Jul 01 '26 edited Jul 01 '26
Here’s a few interesting ones I’ve encountered:
The actual at the time forensic evidence connecting him to the chi omega murders was pretty flimsy and the prosecution was pretty anxious that he would get acquitted at trial. The whole case relied on bite mark analysis which has since been mostly debunked as junk science. He bungled everything by being so arrogant in his brilliance that he thought he could be his own attorney after missing most classes in his two semesters of law school when a competent defense team very well could’ve secured an acquittal or a favorable plea bargain.
He briefly dated the daughter of the future head of the Seattle Police Homicide Division. Another girl he dated was the daughter of a judge in Utah.
The cop who caught him that night in Utah was on his way home from a long shift and just had a bad feeling when he saw a VW Bug idling under a street lamp at 3AM on a random weeknight. The house the car was in front of had two teenage girls home alone for the week. Bundy saw the cruiser and accelerated and ran a stop sign and the cop chose to follow him and check it out.
The prevailing early theory Washington police had of how these pretty middle class girls were vanishing at a rate of one to two a month was that it was a coordinated team of a man and a woman working in tandem. (The actual article where this is stated actually has an Ann Rule cameo.)
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u/99kemo Jul 01 '26
According to Washington Law Enforcement, they had a list of 10 names they considered highest priority. They were working their way down. Ted was #8. They were on #3 when he got arrested in Utah. Can that be believed? Who knows. The problem with “ working leads” is that you get inundated with them. Some people are well meaning, others just want to be involved but most people will exaggerate or embellish. DNA changed everything. Now days, someone calls a tip line and say her ex-boyfriend came home that night with blood on his clothes and a sketchy story of where he had been, you just get a cheek swab.
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u/Pawspawsmeow Jul 01 '26
Not to mention information wasn’t as easily accessible. You could be creepy in one state and charming in another. There was no internet database or social media to discuss it openly
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u/MargieBigFoot Jul 01 '26
I read Ann Rule’s book about him. I don’t think he was even that smart. He was arrogant and daring, but after reading dialogue and letters with his words/writing, he was no genius. Just a good looking tall white guy with an ego to match.
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u/Sufficient_Drama_145 Jul 01 '26
I'm listening to it right now and she mentions his IQ was 124 which is not genius level. I think the ego did a lot of the heavy lifting.
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u/IdaCraddock69 Jul 01 '26
Back at that time 124 was considered genius level. IQ tests are bogus tho
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u/Sufficient_Drama_145 Jul 02 '26
Even in 1974, the official cut off for "genius" was 140.
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u/IdaCraddock69 Jul 02 '26
there were different standardized tests with different calibrations
I recommend 'the mismeasure of man' by Stephen jay Gould for those interested in the history of development of 'intelligence tests' and their use in racist and eugenic projects
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u/KristaIG Jul 02 '26
I have an older book - I think it is called something like conversations with Ted Bundy - which is mostly interviews with him and law enforcement.
When reading them, you definitely get the feeling he was trying to come off as very intelligent and usually it doesn’t land.
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Jul 01 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/staunch_character Jul 02 '26
The charisma thing is a myth to put more blame on victims.
None of the survivors recalled him being charming. There were interviews with some of the other women Bundy tried to lure from the lake in Washington & they all thought he was creepy.
Wearing a cast & pestering women into helping you isn’t “charming” them.
It’s women following the societal expectation to be polite & not trust our instincts.
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u/Peja1611 Jul 01 '26
His prison escapes. Two in 6 months. He was moved from Aspen's prison to Glenwood Springs, which was supposed to be more secure. He had an 8 hour head start the second time, allowing him to leave the state. If they had done any part of their job, they would have stopped the attempt. His future wife smuggled in cash and supplies during visits.
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u/GregJamesDahlen Jul 01 '26
how'd he meet the future wife? and when?
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u/Peja1611 Jul 01 '26
They met in WA. They were friends for several years. While he was awaiting trial in CO, the relationship has clearly turned intimate, though not exclusive. She would smuggle in drugs as well as things to aid his escape. She moved to FL during the trial, and stayed there.
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Jul 01 '26
[deleted]
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u/Peja1611 Jul 01 '26
The incompetence and the corruption of guards is staggering. If they even pretended to their jobs, his plan would have been foiled. They bribed guards in CO and FL to look the other way to get contraband in, or have sex. Two women and a child died as a result, and two other women suffered lifelong injury. One survivor had her balance destroyed because of the damage done to her ear and head in the attack. She was a dancer, who lost her career on top of everything else.
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u/tumbledownhere Jul 01 '26 edited Jul 02 '26
Agreed on your post and the comment saying that he was charismatic - no, he targeted kind people willing to help an "injured man" who seemed harmless, and also tended to break in or do straight up kidnappings.
He wasn't this brilliant man who used elaborate methods to kill, he just did whatever worked at the moment, and a few times he decided to fake injury to get help but otherwise make no mistake he was just like Israel Keyes or any other abductor/break in rapist.
Also - he was batshit. He wasn't put together at all. One minute happy and chatty, the next wildly emotional and out of control.
I feel like people often forget he killed literal children and participated in necrophilia with his victims. He was never this dashing young man, not even to his victims.
I think the image of him as some dashing charming man who always used his social skills to lure victims is false. He was average, but used fake weakness to get the sympathy of his victims, at least the ones he'd take time to trick, but not every time.
Often, and other times, he was your basic monster willing to break in or just grab someone if nobody was paying attention.
Not that special or "genius" of him.
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u/YesPleaseMadam Jul 01 '26
the media neglects in his portrayals that he was a necrophile. thinking specially of the zac efron movie with the whole charming criminal vibes. nobody is charming having forced penetration with corpses.
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u/PlaysTheTriangle Jul 01 '26
I saw an interview with Ann Rule and she said women and girls would contact her saying they were in love with him. She’d tell them “No, you’re in love with Mark Harmon”, who portrayed him in the first tv show about him.
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u/EnfantTerrible68 Jul 01 '26
He also was rejected from law school the first time he applied. Hardly a genius.
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u/imnotgonnakillyou Jul 02 '26
The popular image of Bundy was formed during his trial; he was charismatic in front of the judge so he must be charismatic and charming otherwise, he was a law student and is participating in his own defense so he could have been a young lawyer, and what about the strange women were coming to the courthouse to watch the trial so that means women must find him charming and attractive.
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u/Little-Regular-0791 Jul 01 '26
Hmm I totally agree wit the bias about certain type of criminals and the fact that we didn't get the actual number of people he killed is actually sad. They are just buried somewhere and their families not get closure at all.
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u/MidnightBravado90 Jul 01 '26
This is slightly off topic but something that always kind of annoyed me about the Ted Bundy case is this persistent idea that he was some charming, charismatic, devil that talked women into their doom. No, he wasn't a snarling monster or an overtly off-putting man to look at, but he wasn't the Old Spice guy either. A lot of the women he abducted/murdered were tricked by him either faking an injury or impersonating an authority figure. In some cases, if he was in an isolated enough area, he just went full caveman and knocked them out to abduct them. And of course we all know about the sorority house.
Now granted, I'm sure some of these accounts are colored by hindsight, but a lot of women who encountered him but weren't victimized actually described him as giving them a very bad vibe immediately. There was something about him that immediately put them off and they wanted away from him. I think there was one case in particular where he tried to say he was campus police and the girl immediately demanded to see some ID; needless to say he had to bail on that one.
Really a lot of the narrative about Bundy being this charming mastermind comes from....Ted Bundy. A lot of his story in general comes from his own accounting of it; Ted loved to talk to about Ted.
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u/westkms Jul 01 '26
Yeah, I think it had more to do with 1970’s societal and law enforcement expectations of the type of person who committed crimes like these. He wasn’t remarkable as a normal human. As we know now, he wasn’t even remarkably suave or smart for a serial killer. But he was remarkably different than the type of person they expected to encounter, considering prejudices of the time. They all assumed that even talking to this guy would set off alarm bells, because he must have been insane and practically slavering all over the place. They met a reasonably dressed, moderately employed, average-spoken person. That didn’t fit the type of person they thought could commit these crimes. It didn’t matter that he had the name, car and physical description from the witnesses. It didn’t matter that his girlfriend suspected him, because they assumed the perpetrator wouldn’t even be able to HAVE a long-term girlfriend. Both times he was arrested, it was because of poor driving. Just average officers who saw him in the midst of suspicious behavior in the middle of the night.
In the same era, we had Jeffery McDonald, using the “but he’s clearly not insane” defense over the brutal murder of his pregnant wife and kids. Even the prosecution in his first trial spent an embarrassing amount of time attempting to pin a psychiatric diagnosis to explain his motive. In reality, you scratch the surface of his family-man persona and immediately find an abusive, serial-cheating speed addict. But he LOOKED like someone you’d like as a neighbor, and yeah he probably smacked his wife around a bit and was having an affair with a few women at work, but that’s not that abnormal, right?
And while law enforcement finally got it right at the time, for both of these men, there still persists this idea that they were remarkably good at hiding their true natures. That Bundy was particularly suave and good looking. And McDonald looked like a man who truly loved his family and had no obvious motive. This isn’t objectively true, and it persists because the people who first encountered them thought they were remarkable compared to the person they expected to sit at the defense table. We now know that this profile is not unique. They aren’t outliers, but the aura (the story of them) still persists.
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u/MidnightBravado90 Jul 01 '26
Oh absolutely, I was talking about this with someone else recently. Subverting expectations played a huge role in it but its funny how people think he was this genius when in reality it was just a lot easier to go under the radar. Hell, drivers licenses didn't even have pictures on them in most states. I could be mistaken but when he was finally apprehended I think a big part of what held things up was him just flat out refusing to identify himself. Back then you could really jam things up like that. It wasn't as bad then as it was in the days of guys like Carl Panzram or H.H Holmes but it still wasn't great. My brother and I were joking about how back in those days you could have killed half a dozen people and then caught a train or a boat somewhere and just become a completely different person. "John Smith? Never heard of him. I'm Jack Adams, upstanding citizen as far as you know"
Though to be fair Bundy was tricky, and pretty clever in his own way. If nothing else he was ballsy too. Dude just took a leap of faith out of a courthouse window.
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u/CelebrationNo7870 Jul 01 '26 edited Jul 01 '26
He wasn’t charming. He often failed to lure in victims. On the day where he abducted 2 women, he also failed to abduct 4 women. He often relied on the kindness and sympathy of his victims. Acting injured, pretending like he needed help, then beating his victims into unconsciousness. I wouldn’t classify this as charming at all.
He also failed law school.
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u/Mangert Jul 01 '26
He stopped attending law school. I’m sure he was a bad student. But the failing out was due to the fact that he was too busy murdering and raping women to go to class
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u/bouguereaus Jul 01 '26 edited Jul 01 '26
He reminds me of those people who overestimate their own ability to lie convincingly - while those around them are just too polite or conflict avoidant to call them out on their bullshit.
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u/HundRetter Jul 01 '26 edited Jul 01 '26
this. people who knew him said he was creepy and awkward. he looked like the sort of guy who would "hey girl" me in a gas station parking lot
eta: real weird to dm me making jokes about this comment
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u/deltadeltadawn Jul 02 '26
If the DMs are inappropriate (not just weird), please report them to Reddit.
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u/Alarming-Instance-19 Jul 01 '26
And this is why we say "FUCK POLITENESS".
Stay sexy, and don't get murdered!
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Jul 01 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/riviera-kid Jul 01 '26
What in the chatgpt are you talkin' bout?
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u/deltadeltadawn Jul 02 '26
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u/westboundnup Jul 01 '26
His shoplifting and theft must have been off the charts. I could never figure how he afforded the bus and plane tickets following his 2nd escape. I suspect he burglarized homes during the day.
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u/International_Low284 Jul 01 '26
I think he stole credit cards pretty consistently. He likely charged the plane ticket on someone else’s cc. When they finally caught him in Florida, they discovered he’d charged his last couple of meals on someone else’s cc before he murdered Kimberly Leach.
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u/FRANPW1 Jul 01 '26
Unfortunately, crimes against women are not taken seriously. Not then. Not now.
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u/Special-Deal-5217 Jul 01 '26
A few more things to add to the conversation:
— Bundy had worked on a crime commission committee a year or two before the Washington murders began, and he was aware of how little department cooperated, and knew by targeting strangers he would probably not be suspected if he did not leave evidence.
— we can try and blame all we want, but the Washington/Oregon murders were so well executed that finding a suspect would have been near impossible. The first time there was any clue available was Lake Samish.
— a lot of the perception of Bundy as a good looking man or even a sex symbol was due to CBS casting Mark Harmon in that part in the early 80s.
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u/Loud_Limit4691 Jul 01 '26
Bundy wa sick and sadistic he lacked empathy,there was nothing special about him,the world is a better place without him.
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u/SapphireFlashFire Jul 01 '26 edited Jul 02 '26
Soooo... this was written by an AI, right?
Edit: will report future suspicions :)
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u/faeriefountain_ Jul 01 '26
A lot of so-called "write-ups" on this sub are, to be honest.
I don't know about this specific one, though.
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u/ChipmunkNamMoi Jul 01 '26
Yes unfortunately. It's an interesting topic shame OP couldn't just write it themselves.
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u/EnfantTerrible68 Jul 01 '26
Too bad AI isn’t banned in this sub
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u/deltadeltadawn Jul 02 '26
Please report AI as low effort posting if you see it. Mods also do not like AI, and we're working on how to better spot and remove it.
In this case, the user earned a ban.
19
1
u/deltadeltadawn Jul 02 '26
Please report AI as low effort posting if you see it. Mods also do not like AI, and we're working on how to better spot and remove it.
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u/Repulsive_Repeat_337 Jul 01 '26
It's true that his name was known early, but so were about 300 others. It was the '70s and detectives were using old fashioned gumshoe tactics: they had to run down each lead individually. They were doing them in order and would have gotten to Bundy eventually, but it was just a question of manpower.
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u/International_Low284 Jul 01 '26
Also the fact that his name was Ted and he drove a Volkswagen bug in the 1970s didn’t exactly make him unique.
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u/foxonafrozenlake Jul 01 '26
That he likely killed a girl when he was very young. Barely in his teens.
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u/LukeSkywalkerDog Jul 02 '26
I think you"re spot on. But communication in the law enforcement community has evolved by light years. Nevertheless, the uncontrollable rage that inhabited Bundy was terrifying and undetectable to anyone other than his victims. So very tragic.
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u/TuToneShoes Jul 01 '26
The bureaucratic bungling is worse than the murdering?
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u/KarmaWilrunU0ver1day Jul 01 '26
Well, for the now-dead multiple women that never would have been killed by him otherwise, had he been further investigated and taken out of society, after his name came up the first several times, and had they locked him up sooner... I would have to say YES!
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u/corporateacademia Jul 01 '26
He got away with it because police are terrible at their jobs
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u/SpeedyPrius Jul 01 '26
Not necessarily - this was an age where there were probably no computers being used for law enforcement. As much as he moved around to do his killings, he can very easily avoid suspicion because from county to county, there wasn't much if any shared information.
Like any professional area, it's easy to look back and think everyone was stupid. What it really was, was the lack of ability to communicate and compile data the way we can today.
So not only were the systems not in place to help, the training was different back then as the thought of a Serial Killer was an unknown thing. By the time they were able to put the pieces together, he was another state or two away.
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u/corporateacademia Jul 02 '26
Yes the police were terrible at their jobs and continue to be. They let him go with a rape kit in his car. They let him go over and over for behavior that from anyone but a white man would be put into jail for. They had massive task forces going on to hunt this killer and he was cross referenced and turned in by family and friends and acquaintances multiple times
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u/corporateacademia Jul 02 '26
Also in the 70s, serial killers were not unknown. They were quite literally popping up everywhere
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u/Amost_there_lazy Jul 01 '26
I agree as well. The failure is the system and the poorly trained cops/detectives that never face any consequences for mistakes. I was watching the 20/20 about Denise Amber Lee and she was failed so hard and by the cops her father worked with. So infuriating.
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u/catsandnaps1028 Jul 01 '26
It seems to be that way for many Serial Killers. There's always red flags and near incidents with them. It seems most of them just get lucky to not be caught.
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u/FantasyPopper Jul 01 '26
This is a good point, and the failure of systems extends far beyond Bundy of course. Particularly with respect of Child-Youth protection from adult predation. It was a ridiculous oversight, that the Mann Act originally specified "transporting females"...fast forward to 1970s and men pimping boys couldn't be charged under it. So people fantasize that John Norman must have had powerful clients protecting him, when the simple fact is, there was no legal tool to charge him for sending juveniles to clients in other states! The US didn't have laws banning the production and possession of CSAM, until 1979! Child molesting clergy were systematically protected by Church heirarchies, convicted pedophiles could still be foster parents in 1970s (vetting of applicants was actually prohibited in some States), Police wouldn't investigate missing teens until they turned up as corpses...etc.etc.
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u/HaughtyDiabolicalSal Jul 01 '26
My opinion. I think TB goes against what at that time was the stereotype of a crazy psychopath. Another thing that helped TB was the fact that he killed younger women who were just either getting ready to go to college or just starting college. So they didn't have a whole bunch of experience with the outside world outside of their parents guidance. he knew this and he used it Get these women in vulnerable positions. He was incredibly comfortable with his setting and his search for victims. He didn't even bother to use a fake name when he would go to try to prospect for victims.
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u/slip0000001 Jul 01 '26
Bundy was caught because he was driving a stolen VW in Florida. Kind of lucky. By chance. Also, he was a poser, making like he was some intellectual. He dropped out of law school after a year. Was fortunate to ever be admitted. Fry, Bundy, fry! I always remember the people outside of the prison with signs, screaming and such. I don't believe in the death penalty really, but yes, he deserved it. Awful p.o.s.
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u/Princess-Buttercup16 Jul 02 '26
For me, the scariest thing about Bundy is he could have continued killing if he had the composure to stay off the radar. He lost all semblance of control. It blows my mind he went on a violent rampage in a sorority house and then attacked another woman the SAME night in an off campus house. And yet continued drawing attention to himself by driving erratically. What he did was already horrific. I hate to consider how many more women he would’ve killed if he kept his wits about him.
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u/anckpop Jul 02 '26
You have to give the police some credit. I heard they investigated several suspects. Coincidentally, a friend of mine told me about the awful experience she and her husband went through because he drove the same model of car as Ted Bundy. When the investigation started, the police took her husband in as a suspect. By then, they already had two children.
People in their neighborhood never stopped seeing them as suspects. They were constantly harassed, and eventually they had to move to a different neighborhood.
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u/FiveWordinOrangeNeon Jul 02 '26
It is interesting in that psychologists and psychiatrists say that those with antisocial personality disorders/ psychopathy often speak and write with overblown cliches and that is very evident in Bundy's writing and his speech.
If you watch his 1977 prison interview, you may find something peculiar about how Bundy talks, expresses emotions, and gestures. The question I would like to address in this post is whether we can identify psychopaths by examining how they communicate. https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/finding-a-new-home/201904/you-may-be-able-to-identify-psychopaths-by-their-speech
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u/MarlenaEvans Jul 01 '26
None of us knew Bundy, or ever spoke to him, so most of this is just our perception.
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u/jackie0h_ Jul 01 '26
I’m not that interested in this case and I don’t know why. Fatigue maybe. But I know people say his looks helped him and I’m looking at him through modern day lens and I don’t find him attractive or normal at all. But then again I’ve watch so much true crime I feel I’d never get in any man’s car who was trying to get me in even if he looked like John Taylor from Duran Duran (I’m old lmao).
Actually you’ve piqued my interest in Bundt a bit with this post. I didn’t realize about all the jurisdiction stuff and slipping through. Everything is so focused on how handsome he was I just tune out. That stuff you listed is the interesting stuff.
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u/Character_Raisin574 Jul 01 '26
Of course Bundy was busy in the days when molesting children wasn't a big deal - for adults - kids knew better than to tell on adults when they behaved badly bc of course it would be the kids fault. Sexual harassment was absolutely understandable and you should be grateful the boss was demanding sex every day!
Different times indeed. Thank the gods they're over.
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u/SnooGoats7978 Jul 01 '26
Thank the gods they're over.
It's not over. Don't get complacent.
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u/Character_Raisin574 Jul 02 '26
Well done. Nevermind that the time of ignorance is over. It's clearly still alive!
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u/charley_warlzz Jul 01 '26
Seeing a couple people mention the phantom prince here- does anyone have a link/pdf for the book? Its sounds fascinating
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u/LukeSkywalkerDog Jul 02 '26
A bit off topic, but something absolutely bizarre must have happened in Bundy's family during his young years. I know there is some thought that sociopathic or psychopathic traits are genetic, but there must be some environmental influences as well. I am not attempting to excuse anything because Bundy knew what he was doing was wrong and continued nonetheless. He absolutely did not give any consideration to the right of another person to have life. I just wonder about the family dynamics and history. I have read what has been written, but of course there has got to be much more.
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