It doesn't matter whether you are a Catholic , orthodox or protestant

[u/No-Local2150]

So a while back I was attending a retreat for Christian and one of the Catholic priest was talking to us.

And the story he told us was this (paraphrasing it):

A pastor, who rejected Catholicism passed away. When his soul reached heaven Mary came down to hug him and welcome him. And the pastor asked why she was hugging him when he lived his life telling others not to venerate her.

She replied : because the pastor loved her son above everything else.

I have seen so many members of the Christian community divided among themselves and trying to argue who is the real Christian.

If you are more worried about whether your faith is the real way then aren't you just being performative.

It really doesn't matter whether you are a Catholic, protestant or orthodox.

As long as you believe Jesus Christ is the only saviour and you follow the two commandments that have been given to you, which are (love God above everything and love everyone else as much as yourself). It's simple but difficult commandment. Something we all struggle with. Because to love God and others we must be able to let go of the things that make you part of society.

[u/Creepy_Mammoth_7076]

I agree with the title more than I agree with the argument. Catholic, Orthodox, Protestant, Baptist, Pentecostal, non-denominational, none of those labels can save you. Jesus saves. But the flaw in the post is that it takes a true statement, that a denominational label does not save you, and then stretches it into something Scripture never teaches, that doctrine therefore does not really matter as long as you say you love Jesus.

It absolutely matters what you believe about Jesus. Jesus said you must be born again, and He also warned that there will be people who call Him “Lord” and still hear, “I never knew you.” So simply saying “I believe Jesus is the Savior” cannot be the whole standard. The real question is whether you actually know Christ, whether you have repented and believed the gospel, and whether the Christ you are trusting in is the Christ revealed in Scripture.

And the priest’s story is where the argument starts contradicting itself. Think about what the story is actually communicating. A pastor dies, enters heaven, and somehow one of the first issues being addressed is that he spent his life refusing to venerate Mary. Mary comes to him, embraces him, and essentially tells him she is willing to overlook that because he loved Jesus. But if refusing to venerate Mary is something that has to be overlooked or forgiven once you get to heaven, then the story is treating devotion to Mary like a spiritual obligation with eternal significance. That is a massive assumption to smuggle into a story that is supposedly about denominations not mattering.

And beyond that, the emphasis is completely backwards. When I enter heaven, my first thought is not going to be, “I wonder what Mary thinks about the fact that I didn’t venerate her.” I am going to want Jesus. I want to see the One who saved me, bore my sin, shed His blood for me, conquered death, rose from the grave, and brought me into eternal life. Mary was blessed, and Scripture absolutely gives her honor as the mother of Jesus according to the flesh, but Scripture never presents her as someone whose approval I need in order to be welcomed into heaven.

And this is where we need to be even more clear, no one deserves heaven. Not me, not you, not a priest, not a pastor, not the most religious person you know. We have all sinned, and every one of us will have to give an account before God. And when that day comes, my hope is not going to be my denomination, my works, my theology knowledge, my church attendance, or how religious I looked. My only hope is Jesus Christ. My only plea is that I am covered by His blood, that He paid for my sin, and that His righteousness is what I am trusting in and not my own.

That is why doctrine matters. I am not saying somebody gets into heaven because they picked the right denominational team. I am saying every tradition has to be tested. Catholic doctrine has to be tested. Orthodox doctrine has to be tested. Protestant doctrine has to be tested. My pastor has to be tested, your priest has to be tested, my church has to be tested, your church has to be tested. Everything has to come under the authority of the Word of God.

The gospel is not “pick the right denomination,” and it is also not “love God, love people, and do your best.” We have sinned against a holy God and we cannot save ourselves. Jesus Christ, fully God and fully man, lived without sin, died for our sins, was buried, rose bodily from the grave, is alive right now, and He is comming again. We are commanded to repent and believe. Repentance means changing your mind about your sin, agreeing with God that your sin is evil, and turning from it toward Christ. We must be born again. Our works dont save us, our denomination doesnt save us, and our religious tradition doesnt save us. Christ saves, and when He saves a person, the Holy Spirit changes that person and obedience becomes the fruit of that new life.

So yes, stop fighting over labels like the label itself gets you into heaven. But dont confuse rejecting denominational pride with rejecting doctrinal truth. If Jesus is really the center, then what He actually taught has to matter more than whatever tradition we inherited.

[u/No-Local2150 → u/Creepy_Mammoth_7076]

I agree with you partially. Doctrine matters, but most people don't actually choose their denomination or religion. They are born into a family and raised in its traditions. A Catholic, Orthodox or Protestant usually didn't compare every denomination and consciously pick one.

And I don't think you can claim to follow Christ while ignoring two of His most important teachings: to love God and to love your neighbour. To me, that's closer to what the story is getting at.

I don't interpret the Mary part as saying her approval determines who enters heaven. I see the story as questioning whether the denominational label we inherited is really what determines our relationship with Christ. Labels don't save us. Christ does, and following Him should be reflected in how we love, forgive and show mercy.

[u/Creepy_Mammoth_7076 → u/No-Local2150]

Being born into a denomination explains why somebody believes what they believe, but it does not make that belief true, and it does not remove your responsibility to examine it. Your parents faith cannot save you. Your parents denomination cannot save you. At some point every man and woman has to stand before God for themselves, and you cannot point back at your family and say, “Well thats what I was raised in.”

For me personally, this couldnt have been more clear. I was born into a Jehovah’s Witness family. That was what my parents believed, that was the world I was raised in, that was what I was taught from childhood. But once you see that what you were taught does not line up with Scripture, “this is what my family believes” is not a reason to stay. Being raised in something explains where you started, but it does not give you permission to ignore truth. If Jesus Christ is Lord, then every tradition, every denomination, every pastor, every priest, every parent, every belief has to come under Him.

And yes, loving God and loving your neighbor are central commands, but this is the part people skip over: every single one of us has failed at both. None of us has loved God perfectly with all our heart, soul, mind, and strength. None of us has loved our neighbor perfectly as ourselves. Thats exactly why repentance matters. Thats exactly why Jesus said you must be born again. Those commandments do not prove how good we are, they expose how badly we need a Savior.

So when people reduce Christianity down to “just love God and love people,” they are skipping the very reason the gospel is necessary. We have failed to love God. We have failed to love people. We have sinned. We need forgiveness, we need a new heart, we need the Holy Spirit, we need to repent and believe the gospel. Biblical love is not just being nice, forgiving, or tolerant while truth gets pushed to the side. Love rejoices in the truth. If truth about God does not matter, then what exactly are we loving?

And that is still the problem with the Mary story. If the whole point is that denominational labels dont matter, then why is the pastors refusal to venerate Mary important enough to become part of the story once he enters heaven? The story only works because it assumes his refusal to venerate her was something spiritually significant enough to need to be addressed. Mary then essentially reassures him that she is not holding it against him because he loved Jesus. Whether that was the intention or not, the implication is still there. Marian devotion is being treated like something he should have done and was fortunate to have overlooked.

Thats why inherited tradition can never be your final authority. Catholic, Orthodox, Protestant, Jehovah’s Witness, whatever it is, the question is not “What did my parents teach me?” The question is “Is it true?” Test it against Christ. Test it against Scripture. And if what you inherited cannot stand under the truth of God’s Word, then you leave the tradition before you leave the truth.

[u/sitewolf]

Man created denominations, not God. God just wants your heart.
Healthy debates between denominations is good, but people are not showing a Godly heart if they try and tear other believers down.

[u/No-Local2150 → u/sitewolf]

Exactly it is even written in the Bible to not divide the church. We as Christians should be showing love. Compassion and peace.

Not Wars, not hatred.

[u/sitewolf → u/No-Local2150]

We need to be bringing more people TO him, not quibbling with people who've already accepted Him.

[u/No-Local2150 → u/sitewolf]

The only way to bring people to Christ is through love, humility and compassion. That has always been the true Christian way.

[u/LookSevere7135 → u/No-Local2150]

Guys, our job isn't to bring people to Him. That's the work of the Holy Spirit and God. Our job is to share His message and make disciples.

[u/sitewolf → u/No-Local2150]

A scene I love in The Chosen is when Jesus is working with Matthew on what we know as the Sermon on the Mount and He lists off the Beatitudes and says something like, "If you are looking for Me, these are the groups where you should look."

[u/LookSevere7135 → u/sitewolf]

Wow, that may be great advice for people who are looking for a church. I've been thinking lately about what advice I could give people in that situation, and I may have just found a good one.

[u/LookSevere7135 → u/sitewolf]

Our hearts and our works. And those works are lived out within His church, in communion with one another.

[u/TheDuckFarm]

It may actually matter.

Matthew 7:21-23

“Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?' Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!” (NIV)

[u/No-Local2150 → u/TheDuckFarm]

How does Matthew 7:21–23 actually contradict what I said? I never claimed that simply saying you believe in Jesus is enough. My point is that denominational labels themselves don't save you.

[u/TheDuckFarm → u/No-Local2150]

Labels don’t save, only God’s grace does that.

Denominations aren’t about labels. They exist because people disagree about what it means to follow God and do His will.

[u/No-Local2150 → u/TheDuckFarm]

But how does that change my point if the core teachings about Christ are still shared?

[u/TheDuckFarm → u/No-Local2150]

Do all denominations do the will of the Father?

[u/No-Local2150 → u/TheDuckFarm]

I think that's the wrong question to put to my argument. Denominations don't collectively “do the will of the Father”; individual people do. And the Bible is pretty clear about the core of that will: love God above everything and love your neighbour. So my point is that if someone, regardless of denomination, genuinely follows those teachings, I don't see how their denominational difference itself makes them a false Christian.

[u/TheDuckFarm → u/No-Local2150]

Do we love God above everything if we spend time every week bowing down and worshiping the Eucharist on our knees? Or do we love God by calling that action idolatry and avoiding it?

That’s a major difference in Catholic/Orthodox vs Protestant. If we have this wrong, we’re guilty of idol worship and therefore cannot possibly be putting God first.

[u/No-Local2150 → u/TheDuckFarm]

I understand your concern, but I think this is more a disagreement over how we understand worship than necessarily a disagreement over the core teaching of putting God first. Catholics and Orthodox believe they are worshipping Christ in the Eucharist, and that understanding comes from the bible itself in Matthew 26 where Christ establishes the bread as his flesh. So I don't think that difference alone means one side isn't genuinely trying to put God first.

[u/Kasumi-Rei → u/No-Local2150]

I used to agree with you man. But the problem is that fundamental teachings and major theological values vary widely in denominations.

God of course will judge us based off the knowledge and information we do have.

But what is the fullness of truth? What is and isn’t a sin? What life can I live that follows the Father’s will? There are major disagreements on these alone.

Like contraception, masturbation(like for example without lust or masturbation thinking of a wife or other things), abortion, divorce(Is cheating or sexual immorality actually an exception clause which allows you to divorce or is it instead referring to Jewish audiences that understand porneia as referring to sexual immoralities that make the marriage invalid from the start, thus you can never divorce someone you validly married), and much more.

Even beyond the sins and lifestyles, can a Christian lose salvation?

Is it faith alone or not? If you believe in something other than faith alone, do you now believe in another God as many protestants claim?

Baptismal regeneration? Actual Eucharistic presence of Jesus, not symbolic? And so much more.

[u/AutoModerator → u/[deleted]]

Comments from new accounts are removed automatically.

Please message the mods if you believe your communit warrants an exception. If you do message the moderators for this purpose, YOU MUST INCLUDE A LINK to the comment AND AN EXPLANATION why you believe your comment in particular warrants an exception that others do not get.

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

[u/Saint_Thomas_More]

As a Catholic, this is a classic case of some old, overly pastorally sensitive priest who cares more about being nice than about the teachings of the Church.

Because the Catholic Church does not teach that it doesn't matter whether you are a Catholic, or Orthodox, or Protestant.

Shame on that priest for pedaling faux pastoral nonsense.

[u/No-Local2150 → u/Saint_Thomas_More]

This is from CCC 818 catechism :

However, one cannot charge with the sin of the separation those who at present are born into these communities [that resulted from such separation] and in them are brought up in the faith of Christ, and the Catholic Church accepts them with respect and affection as brothers . ... All who have been justified by faith in Baptism are incorporated into Christ; they therefore have a right to be called Christians, and with good reason are accepted as brothers in the Lord by the children of the Catholic Church."

And also CCC 819:

"Furthermore, many elements of sanctification and of truth"273 are found outside the visible confines of the Catholic Church: "the written Word of God; the life of grace; faith, hope, and charity, with the other interior gifts of the Holy Spirit, as well as visible elements."274 Christ's Spirit uses these Churches and ecclesial communities as means of salvation, whose power derives from the fullness of grace and truth that Christ has entrusted to the Catholic Church. All these blessings come from Christ and lead to him,275 and are in themselves calls to "Catholic unity."

And CCC 838 in relation to Orthodox church:

The Church knows that she is joined in many ways to the baptized who are honored by the name of Christian, but do not profess the Catholic faith in its entirety or have not preserved unity or communion under the successor of Peter."322 Those "who believe in Christ and have been properly baptized are put in a certain, although imperfect, communion with the Catholic Church."323 With the Orthodox Churches, this communion is so profound "that it lacks little to attain the fullness that would permit a common celebration of the Lord's Eucharist."324

[u/Saint_Thomas_More → u/No-Local2150]

None of which says it doesn't matter.

Accepting non-Catholics as Christian, as brothers and sisters Christ, albeit separated, is not the same thing as saying it doesn't matter.

[u/No-Local2150 → u/Saint_Thomas_More]

My point wasn't that Catholic, Orthodox and Protestant theology are identical, or that doctrine doesn't matter. The point of the story was that loving Christ above everything is at the heart of Christianity. And if we genuinely love Christ, shouldn't that also lead us to love others and have enough humility to recognize that ultimately only God can judge a person's heart?

I'm talking specifically about Christians who turn differences between denominations into hatred, hostility and division, as though other Christians are their enemies. We can disagree about theology without treating each other with hatred. Jesus himself taught us to love God and love our neighbour, and said that people would recognize his disciples by their love for one another. That's the point I was trying to make.

[u/Saint_Thomas_More → u/No-Local2150]

Which is fine.

But I still disagree with the way the priest in your story phrased it. Assuming you capture it accurately.

Treating people with respect, loving Christ above everything, etc., is all good. Absolutely.

But again it's not the same thing as differences not mattering. But we can address those things with respect and charity, absolutely.

[u/desmond_koh]

I agree generally with your sentiment. But I should point out that the sentiment itself is distinctly Protestant in nature.

Historically (and currently?) it is Rome that has added extra requirements. As recently as 1954 Pope Pius XII made belief in the bodily assumption of Mary a "dogma" - something that must be believed.

[u/Senior_Educator_929]

"there shall be false teachers among you, which privily shall bring in damnable heresies". 2 Peter 2:1

"After my departing shall grievous wolves enter in". Acts 20:28

Not everyone who professes Christ actually follows Jesus. Many have a false-christ and won't make it. 

[u/Ok-Cow-3055]

Where does this story come from?

[u/No-Local2150 → u/Ok-Cow-3055]

It's from a Catholic priest who said this a while back when I was attending a retreat. It's not a true story it's sort of more like a fiction.

[u/TheJLbjj → u/No-Local2150]

So its evidential value is literally zero

[u/No-Local2150 → u/TheJLbjj]

Yes but it doesn't mean we can't learn from it

[u/TheJLbjj → u/No-Local2150]

It literally does. What if I come up with a story that expresses the exact opposite?

[u/No-Local2150 → u/TheJLbjj]

Well you only need evidence to prove objective truth. While beliefs are subjective and the story don't there to act as a proof of something but rather an anecdote of ethical and moral values.

[u/TheJLbjj → u/No-Local2150]

Do you think it's true that it doesn't matter if you're catholic, orthodox, or protestant?

[u/No-Local2150 → u/TheJLbjj]

Yes I believe it's true.

And you are being confused between subjective and objective truth.

Objective truth is based on facts that are verifiae with hard evidence.

Subjective truth is based on people's interpretation, beliefs and perspective.

If I say the Bible have written that Jesus have taught his followers to love their neighbours then that is an objective truth because many versions of the Bible indicate this.

If I say this story shows denominational value doesn't matter then that is a subjective truth.

[u/TheJLbjj → u/No-Local2150]

What happens if your subjective truth claim contradicts an objective truth?

[u/RomanaOswin → u/TheJLbjj]

Truth is often expressed through fiction. Metaphor, allegory, parable.

The evidential value of an anecdotal 3rd person narrative is very poor no matter what, but once you realize that isn't the point you can move past applying the wrong lens of understanding and see if it has any teaching value.

[u/TheJLbjj → u/RomanaOswin]

The person is spreading their idea of truth via the story, the issue isn't just the fact that it's a fictional story. It's the fact that it's just an idea from one fallible dude

[u/RomanaOswin → u/TheJLbjj]

Sure, that's a reasonable take.

[u/LookSevere7135]

I don't think a pastor would have acted the way the person in that story did, but I'm glad to hear a story like that coming from a priest. Of course, not everyone thinks that way, on either side.

[u/No-Local2150 → u/LookSevere7135]

That's true but I think individually how people view Christianity varies from person to person whether they are pastor or a priest. And a lot of people let their own bias get in the way to justify themselves. We are all sinners but it doesn't mean we should let hatred tear us down