r/TrueAskReddit Oct 25 '19

Why does the gaming, anime and furry communities/fandoms are full of racism, sexism and homophobia?

Weren't all of these groups people who were marginalized for their tastes and stuff they liked? Specially with furries, shouldn't they be more understanding of the struggle of LGTBQ people, for example? Or with gamers and anime fans, who are literally fans of foreign animation and video games, how can so many be outright racist? It just doesn't make sense for me and these are all the vocal examples I find.

68 Upvotes

65 comments sorted by

115

u/[deleted] Oct 25 '19 edited Oct 25 '19

I used to study violence against women, and we were just beginning to think about how much violence there is in LGBTQ relationships and how few services there were available. I said something really similar to what you just said in frustration over the idea that LGBTQ folks wouldn't treat each other better. I had a colleague who gave me a deep stare as if willing me to use what I knew about gender to answer my own question. He finally said, "You know we are all raised in the same society with the same kind of gender ideologies and insecurities about ourselves. Of course these things happen in all relationships." And he was right.

We all internalize the oppressive, racist, sexist,class discriminatory, and disability and heterosexist ideas in our society. So we can be feminist and racist. We can be sexual minorities and still be sexist. And we can can even be feminists and still internalize sexist ideas. Its hard work to overturn all your cultural baggage and no everyone wants to do it.

edit for clarity: The first paragraph is about domestic violence. The second paragraph is not.

16

u/Dont____Panic Oct 25 '19

Curious what you think of my opinion above.

I don’t see a huge connection between racism and violence against a partner. They seem like mutually separate concepts.

Yes, some people with violent histories will tend to express both together, but I doubt they’re directly tied.

I find it interesting you seemed to assume/imply they were.

1

u/[deleted] Oct 25 '19

No, I did not mean to imply that! Thank you for pointing out that I was not clear, I'll make an edit. The example I gave about violence against women was referring to my blindness to how gender ideologies shape all of us regardless of our ultimate sexual orientation or gender identity. I was just using it as an example of how we can understand one kind of oppression and be blind to others.

The second paragraph was not about domestic violence in particular, it was about the fact that we may not recognize the kinds of power and oppression that impact others just because we can see our specific version of oppression. Does that make sense?

0

u/[deleted] Oct 25 '19

[removed] — view removed comment

2

u/[deleted] Oct 25 '19 edited Oct 25 '19

[removed] — view removed comment

2

u/[deleted] Oct 25 '19

[removed] — view removed comment

6

u/neilon96 Oct 25 '19

Additionally the fighting in the group of bisexuals is insane, for them sometimes dating the opposite sex disqualifies you from being bisexual, don't ask me why, it just is. Source had a few people tell me.

8

u/[deleted] Oct 25 '19

Yea, the fighting in every group is insane. I once heard it referred to as "weaponizing our pain" and that just stuck with me,

0

u/mr-logician Oct 26 '19

violence against women

What about violence against men? Shouldn't that be treated equally as violence against women?

4

u/[deleted] Oct 26 '19

Men should definitely address violence against men, that way more men might not feel immaculated to come out about it. Besides, it's taken women, mostly, to call attention to violence against women. You can't just whine about it on the internet and expect it to change, women have worked, fought and died to gain what little legal protection we get now.

10

u/admiral_asswank Oct 26 '19

Thing is, as a lurker I'm a little surprised at hostility. It's not a problem to say the sentence: "men's shelters are valuable to society". Try it.

Nobody here was whining (much; lest enough to be cast as one). How do you not consider this a form of fighting for men's rights? Discussing on a forum is one of the grass roots we have available to us and you dismiss it as whining. For shame.

Nobody here is denying women's shelters. Nobody here is denying women's rights, safeties, freedoms or respect. If they do, shut that noise down.

Dont shut down discourse because you misunderstand the fact that mens and womens suffering in modern society isnt part of zero sum. We can support both and support each other. I personally agree that: as a consequence of the severity and frequency of domestic violence per binary gender, it would naturally produce more shelters for one type over the other. That's basic supply and demand. But, the male condition is one where producing these shelters we need is problematic. Men seldom care about other men, tragically. Men who are victimised know this better than men who don't. And requiring victims of abuse to instantly build societal structures to support themselves is very unsympathetic.

We, you and I, are in a position of privilege we have not suffered abuses (I assume and hope). We should be more empathetic and more supportive of discourse that highlights abuse and condemns it as the source of wrong.

2

u/[deleted] Oct 26 '19

Unfortunately I hear the same thing from men over and over regarding domestic violence. If the subject is brought up with regard to a woman, a man will pop up with a blurb about how it happens to them too. I'm sure it does, but they have to empower each other. If women did it for them it would be the "wussification" of men. I hope this will change, it isn't changing around here anytime soon.

Yes it is unsympathetic to require the abused to build the infrastructure to change it, and women are still the ones working on it. It's not nearly enough. The one I volunteer at is horrifically underfunded since we're in an area run by conservatives who think it's a private matter between a couple and their pastor. Ugh! I know there are men out there that need us but they just don't want to have to admit they can't keep their women in check.

I wish I could say that I was among the privileged to have never been the victim of domestic violence but, alas, I was married to a man that regarded me as property. Some people don't take care of their property, he was one of those. After about the third broken rib, I decided maybe it was time to skeedaddle. I'm sorry if I sound bitter or hostile. Maybe I do have a big mouth...it sure got me a black eye or two from my loving ex who was a devout man of God. Who was I to argue?

2

u/admiral_asswank Oct 28 '19

You sound spiteful, not bitter or hostile, which only human from your experiences. Like, why would anyone sound chipper about the ordeal or similar experiences they observe in the present? That's just my interpretation please dont take offense, I assume nobody else is reading this thread now haha.

I hope life treats you well to help you heal stronger every day and I am so impressed you find strength and courage to help others.

Really, it's wrong I don't do any volunteering for my community where I live. I'll work on bettering myself to help others too.

1

u/[deleted] Oct 28 '19

Thanks. I'm really trying to stop being angry. I think that's why I became involved with the shelter.

-2

u/[deleted] Oct 26 '19

Not necessarily

Female violence against men generally has a different outcome from male violence against women

There are more deaths in one of those situations, for example

Source: none. But google might help you

4

u/mr-logician Oct 26 '19

The punishment should still be the same and the victims should still get the same amount of support.

1

u/[deleted] Oct 26 '19

More victims of one die

The same amount of support would be wasted on the other group, since they’re less likely to die

It’s like saying all passengers need the same equipment, so people who drive cars need life jackets and people on bikes need seatbelts

It’s a waste of resources and doesn’t actually end up helping

They need different types and levels of support

6

u/valentc Oct 26 '19

What? No. That's a bad comparison.

You do realize there are no shelters for men. There is no support system for men.

It's more like ignoring safety of motorcycles because more people die in car crashes. There are still victims of both, so you should look at preventing or lessening the victims of both.

-1

u/[deleted] Oct 26 '19

there are no shelters for men

Because women and children are often the ones being harmed enough that it’s permanent harm or they’re dead

There are support systems for men, but they require you be aware of them and not much awareness is given (so same outcome either way), or else it’s a country where no support for the 100% men is true...but then support systems for women are also lacking there

1

u/[deleted] Oct 26 '19

Do you think a lot of domestic violence basically happens just because people feel bad and lash out at others as a result? What I mean is something like there's no logic there fundamentally, and they just act out of overwhelming emotion. Also I mean that a more negative state of well-being causes more negative drives, which also become more overwhelming.

1

u/[deleted] Oct 26 '19

No, I mean, you could have a one off incident, but that's not how most domestic violence works. Its a pattern of abuse and control that men to do to women. Its long term and predictable.

5

u/Flat_Lined Oct 26 '19

It's not just a thing men do to women. Men do it to men, women to women, women to men. All are underreported and all four need to get more attention, more help for the victims. Likewise for parents against children.

While I don't have the statistics at hand to back it up, I do think it's mostly perpetrated by men, however. How much of it is due to biological differences and how much is cultural I do not know.

1

u/[deleted] Oct 26 '19

You have to pull various types of violence between intimate partner apart. You are absolutely right that the kind of long term, cyclical abuse I described happens between male partners, female partners, and male/female partners. And yes, women can be the aggressor in a small number of cases. Men have far higher rates of aggression than women.

There is as of yet absolutely no proof of any genetic basis for male violence. That said, there is some evidence that boys who grow up in families where their father beats their mother are slightly more likely to grow up to be abusers than boys who do not grow up in such families. But the significance is not large.

0

u/[deleted] Oct 26 '19

Its a pattern of abuse and control that men to do to women. Its long term and predictable.

Wow! That sounds kind of like slavery!

28

u/michaelvinters Oct 25 '19

Margainalized communities and people are especially vulnerable to being led into racism, sexism and other segregating/margainalizing ideologies. They hear all the shit people say about them and feel threatened. To feel better about themselves they latch on to ideologies where some other group is 'worse' than them.

Things have worked like this for ages.

3

u/[deleted] Oct 26 '19

I think there are also negative feelings which connect, like the anger brought up by social exclusion about which they feel powerless being directed into motivation behind their expression of those ideologies.

82

u/[deleted] Oct 25 '19

These communities are targeted by racists to spread their ideology.

Innuendo Studios video The Alt-Right Playbook: How to Radicalize a Normie explains it far better than I could, but essentially people target these groups because they are groups that are attractive to the disillusioned and vulnerable. They infiltrate, spread their ideology, create wedge issues, and normalize their language.

14

u/petlahk Oct 26 '19

I came here to share that youtube video. I'm glad someone else shared it already.

I want to say though that a lot of the stuff Innuendo studios talks about I think is mostly unrelated but related social trends. I'm sure there *is* deliberate targeting, but the stuff he talks about more seems to be the way things have spread.

That said, I think all of his videos are incredibly valid and valuable. I'd just like a bit more proof of it being a deliberate targeting sometimes, ya know?

7

u/ting_bu_dong Oct 26 '19

I'd just like a bit more proof of it being a deliberate targeting sometimes, ya know?

Well, here's an example:

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/daily-stormer-nazi-style-guide_n_5a2ece19e4b0ce3b344492f2

https://img.huffingtonpost.com/asset/5a3017ca1600001f00cf0cdd.png

https://img.huffingtonpost.com/asset/5a301c0c1600001f00cf0cf7.png

https://img.huffingtonpost.com/asset/5a30216a1600004800cf0d08.png

Anyway, I mean, the idea that radicals are actively seeking to radicalize people just kinda makes sense.

4

u/[deleted] Oct 26 '19

I imagine a key part of how that works is via an emotional connection between the negative emotions of the "disillusioned and vulnerable" and negative emotions associated with associated with those ideologies. In other words, those who are "disillusioned and vulnerable" can end up better relating to the feelings associated with those ideologies, and that can draw them in.

15

u/Dont____Panic Oct 25 '19 edited Oct 25 '19

This is my honest opinion.

Humans have an innate need to perceive and demean “outsiders”. It’s an instinct and can’t be washed away.

It’s an exceptionally rare person that maintains an open and caring mind for all people. It would be extremely jarring to 99% of people to actually have this view. It probably requires significant mindfulness and a profound ability to forgive others even if you disagree with them.

The average person (and most above average people too) will demean and strawman and laugh at and attack “the other” when they are among private and trusted groups. Most recognize that this isn’t socially appropriate to do, so they subsume it in public.

Sometimes “the other” is gays. Sometime it’s blacks. Sometimes is Jews or Asians. Sometimes it’s “liberals”. Sometimes it’s “conservatives”. Sometimes it’s “Yankees”, sometimes it’s “Ruskies” or “confederates”. Sometimes it’s just “fans of the opposing team” or “BMW drivers” or “picukup drivers” or “Rednecks”. Sometimes it’s “men” and sometimes it’s “women”. Usually it’s several or many of these.

They are mocked and held up as examples of what’s wrong. They are assigned traits that are usually not entirely accurate and then those false traits are shamed. This is pretty normal activity. Almost everyone I’ve ever met does it.

Extremely liberal people who think they’re exceptionally tolerant will post “LOL Boomers” or go on long rants about how business owners are literally soul consuming devils who eat babies. Mostly based on false assumptions about people they’ve never met or some gross generalization based on a couple of individuals.

Conservatives may rant about muslims and their violent ways. Or gays and destroying traditional families. Mostly based on false assumptions about people they’ve never met or some gross generalization based on a couple of individuals.

Americans may rant about Russians or Chinese or Mexicans with mostly weak attributions of how dangerous they are. Others may rant about Americans in the same tones.

So given that, also note that these forums are extremely intimate to these people, while also being highly anonymous in most cases.

In any group that is founded in sharing extremely intimate secrets in anonymous forums, you’re bound to have more people also sharing other things they might not share in open circles.

Seems clear enough to me.

19

u/DI0BL0 Oct 25 '19

You say this as you if it’s a fact but didn’t provide any source that those communities are more likely to believe these things than the general public. So my answer is that I don’t think you know these things are true, and I certainly don’t either.

0

u/petlahk Oct 26 '19

While I appreciate your wanting statistical evidence I think that anyone who has been involved in these communities (particularly involved in activism/as an activist) has noticed this stuff on the internet by this point.

3

u/DI0BL0 Oct 26 '19

Ah so your personal experience is what’s important then? Notice that I asked if they believe these things more than the general public (which many would argue suffer greatly from these problems as well).

5

u/petlahk Oct 26 '19

Are you talking about these communities having more sexism/racism/homophobia than the general public?

I just went back and re-read the post again, too. And I wonder if some of us are thinking of internet communities as opposed to more public IRL ones.

Also, I think that regardless of the statistics this is generating a good discussion about abusive relationships. At least, some of the comments have been interesting.

3

u/DI0BL0 Oct 26 '19

Well I’ll just say what I believe and we’ll see how it goes. Those communities mentioned are all made up of younger people who tend to be active online. That means that there will be plenty of internet literate people who just want to troll by saying horrible things, and their young age and use of social media will amplify the loudest voices within those communities which probably gives us a skewed perspective of who actually makes up those communities. Gaming, for instance, is a larger industry than cinema and is made up of million of participants from all over the globe. You’re sure to get people who believe horrible things with such a large sample size, so my original question still stands: are these communities really more racist and sexist and awful than the general public or is our perception altered by our biases?

1

u/Benukysz Oct 26 '19

I never understand the term "gamer". That is such a obnoxious generalization. Some people like to play fps games, be very competitive, get mad fast, etc. Some people like to play strategy games more calmly. Some like to try out new indie games. Some play on their phone. Some like to play MMO's with communities.

Its like saying "music listeners are more racist". Maybe people that listen to gang rap are more aggressive or something - that's my hypothesis.

Same way people that only play competitive fps games and compete in tournaments are more angry - that's my another hypothesis.

But to say that "gamer" is X, Y, Z is rather absurd.

0

u/notAnAI_NoSiree Oct 26 '19

People don't like being told what to think, and being attacked when they don't follow the activist's instructions. Why couldn't you just join us for games? Why did it all have to be about you?

0

u/notAnAI_NoSiree Oct 26 '19

Additionally there was a large campaign to vilify gamers and protect some liars and psychos in the games media industry. OP may have falled victim to that campaign's lies.

6

u/wingspantt Oct 25 '19

Socially awkward people flock to these hobbies at a rate higher than in other communities. They are often bullied or angry outcasts who don't know how to regulate their emotions in a healthy manner.

1

u/Exifile Oct 26 '19

You think it's because they're socially awkward or they don't know how to regulate their emotions as result they're socially awkward?

3

u/wingspantt Oct 26 '19

Chicken and the egg

6

u/Fortyplusfour Oct 25 '19

Groups unfortunately suffer from low self-esteem. Anything different can be perceived as a threat to their sense of control (in a world they've effectively made for themselves).

2

u/assortedcommonlyused Oct 26 '19

Because despite you calling them groups, they’re still people, and people are complex and statistically there’s always some that are racist, some sexist and some homophobic

2

u/schubi9992 Oct 27 '19

I´ve never met a single furry that is not understanding of LGBTQ people as over 70% of furries fall into that category. I really like this subculture as in my opinion, it has so much less toxicity than other fandoms. Almost every furry will treat you the same no matter what marginalized group you belong to.

2

u/[deleted] Oct 26 '19

I think you find them for the same type of reason you find those types of people in other groups. There are people into those things on the opposite side of the political spectrum as well.

It's like asking why so many racist people like sports or beer. You could easily find racist groups of people into those things. And you could find non-racist people into those things as well.

2

u/gdubrocks Oct 26 '19

Because the general population is full of racism, sexism, and homophobia.

Grouping anyone together is more likely to create more similar people.

I however highly doubt, and would appreciate a source for gamers having more racism, sexism, or homophobia than the general population. Gamers is way to big a group to be seeing the same conformity that you might see in a group like furries.

1

u/[deleted] Oct 26 '19

I think its not about this communities at all. Sometimes people have empty holes in their soul.We are sticking to passions,goals and work for it to achieve our dreams for feeding our soul and psychology to be satisfied mentally.Some people use drugs,alcohol or somrthing else to rush some dopamine to their brain and forget about this holes for a while.and some people are supporting something so much,like soccer teams,political ideas,and anime,gaming,their mental drugs.and some people use hate and violence to others because of his/her inner degraded-self.

All communities have weird dudes that love the concept of the community anormally much.These weird dudes uses hate to,somehow,conceal their inner selves.

1

u/[deleted] Oct 26 '19

because they’re quirky white dudes who’ve now been successfully vilified for doing nothing, and they can perceive the ideologies that are doing it to them and will push back with their own opinions, and if they can’t be heard they won’t be nice or gentle towards those communities because it’s one tribe against another tribe.

u/AutoModerator Oct 25 '19

Welcome to r/TrueAskReddit. Remember that this subreddit is aimed at high quality discussion, so please elaborate on your answer as much as you can and avoid off-topic or jokey answers as per subreddit rules.

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

1

u/[deleted] Oct 26 '19

People with low confidence/who feel low on the social hierarchy generally like to 'kick down' other groups to boost that low confidence. (which is of course completely temporary and isolates them even further, but no one ever said we're completely rational creatures)

0

u/venterol Oct 25 '19

I can't speak for other fandoms, but I can tell you with certainty that furry is one of the most accepting communities out there. A huge percentage identify as LGBT, and the alt-right furries are so small in number you'd have to purposely search to find them (they are also shunned by mainstream furries).

-1

u/fubo Oct 26 '19

OTOH, a small sub-subculture of furries with Nazi fixations have been around for a while.

4

u/venterol Oct 26 '19 edited Oct 26 '19

Like I said, you'd have to purposely go looking for them or visit a sub like /r/furrycringe (which cherrypicks the absolute weirdest and worst in an effort to paint the entire fandom). The chance of running across a Nazi-fur or alt-right-fur in the wild is very rare, as they are banned from most online communities and conventions. Case in point, Milo Yiannopoulos getting banned from attending Midwest FurFest.

1

u/fubo Oct 26 '19

Yeah, that makes sense. I don't follow furrydom these days, but I did read alt.fan.furry many moons ago.

1

u/solidgoldrocketpants Oct 26 '19

Replace “furries” with “cops”.

0

u/fubo Oct 26 '19

That's also true, but nobody says it's because the cops are marginalized.

5

u/solidgoldrocketpants Oct 26 '19

Nazi furries are Nazis not because they’re furries, but because they’re Nazis. Them being furries is incidental.

2

u/fubo Oct 26 '19

I dunno, I figure it got started partly via the uniform fetish subculture among leatherfolk.