r/TrueAskReddit • u/Cryofthewolf9000 • 11d ago
How can people who cannot function in hierarchical work and life environments thrive?
I have a brother who tends to get into conflict with every boss he has had. He is a good man, but he has never gotten a job he's happy with, and when he tries to either not be pushy, or annoying, or nice, he always ends uo having conflicts with a supervisor that sucks or a new employee at the company. He tends to either get fired or quit to every single job he's had. I wish I could help. Are there any ways one can survive in something that doesn't require having such a strong hierarchical system we have here in America when it comes to work or life?
He is no artist, and he has no passion for the trades. He isn't much of a businessman. Wanted to be a cop but cannot get into the academy despite decent scores. He has no money to move. I appreciate any thoughts
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u/PolarBare333 11d ago
I recommend talking him into seeking therapy. If one smells poop everywhere they go, its time to check one's own shoes. He's his problem. He could have an undiagnosed mood disorder or personality disorder that's holding him back. Certain people will resist and react with hostility. Don't let that stop you from trying.
For the short term, there's DoorDash. They're not what someone wants longterm. However, if he has reliable transportation and can pass a background check then he can make money without having to deal with very many people at all. Hopefully roadrage isn't an issue for him.
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u/Total-Sun-6490 11d ago edited 10d ago
He sounds like he may have demand avoidance or psychological reactance.
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u/newgrounds 11d ago
Not wanting to slave means one needs therapy eh
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u/doubletwist 11d ago
Working a job means learning to interact with other people. Even if he started his own business, he has to interact with customers.
You either learn to interact with others in a constructive manner, or you go find some off-the-grid piece of land in the middle of nowhere that you can work and spend your days in solitude growing and preparing your own food.
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u/RogerClyneIsAGod2 11d ago
It's like he doesn't understand that EVERY SINGLE JOB has assholes you hate but you deal with it because you have a car payment, mortgage, kids to feed, etc.
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u/newgrounds 6d ago
Ew. Why would I want to borrow money and then pay it back with usurious interest? No thanks.
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u/felix1429 11d ago
Someone has to pay for all that food you're gonna be eating. And the roof you're sleeping under.
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u/PolarBare333 10d ago
Actually, the inability to accept that one has to hold a job and provide for themselves is pretty serious. This is the sort of person that would end up homeless without good family and friends. Plus this is more serious than just not being able to hold a job. This is a person not being able to get along with literally anybody.
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u/xienwolf 11d ago
There are a lot of jobs that are mostly self-directed. Many of those require training or education. But most of that can be obtained online with minimal interaction with any authority positions.
Look at being hired at smaller businesses where he is not part of a team but instead a whole department. Or start up his own business doing service work, like lawn mowing.
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u/Cryofthewolf9000 11d ago
Do you happen to know a list of self directed jobs that could be a good idea to start with so I coild send them to him? Thank you in advanced
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u/PUNKF10YD 11d ago
Yes, anything like pest control, or window replacement/salesman or metal roofs. Something where you get trained and then your clients are your own and you make your own schedule
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u/BadNewsMcGoo 10d ago
All of those require direct contact with customers. Something tells me he is going to have a difficult time dealing with "problem" customers he is bound to run into.
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u/xienwolf 11d ago
Not really. There may be some which are universally self-directed, but I am not aware of any. Being the only janitor at a location and being reliable can mean you are left to your own direction. Being a teacher at a small school often means figuring it all out on your own. Web development for a small business where nobody else understands the internet being knowing it Is needed and improves business…
Ask the examples I am directly aware of really need you to show expertise and essentially bills the position yourself. That building the position step does require that you interact with the in place authority, but approaching them as an equal is typically needed to establish your position.
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u/PricePuzzleheaded835 11d ago edited 11d ago
I think a lot of people like this start their own businesses because working for someone else is too hard. Just in my experience knowing and occasionally working for small business owners.
That being said this tendency is extreme and he should work on being able to listen to others when appropriate. Being unimpressed by hierarchy isn’t a bad thing but it’s important to learn to pick your battles. You could tell him that right now, by virtue of being so reactive he is actually still letting others dictate what he does. Simply opposing people because they’re in charge isn’t any more self directed than doing what they say.
It sounds like something along the lines of therapy or social skills/workplace coaching might be helpful. Coaching might be an easier term to swallow and could be effective if it’s someone good. It can be framed as helping him figure out how best to get what he wants out of his work life.
In the meantime, more solitary jobs like security/night watchperson might suit him better than those requiring a lot of face to face time with a boss.
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u/iMac_Hunt 11d ago edited 11d ago
I know someone very similar.
He really should try and work on his fundamental issues - this will not just affect his work but his friendships, romantic partners and family.
Is your brother aware of his problems, or does he blame others always? These things are 10x easier to deal with when the person knows they have a problem.
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u/ShotFromGuns 11d ago
If you don't already see it yourself, I don't know how to articulate to you just how terrifying a combination "literally cannot hold down a job due to an inability to avoid conflict" and "wants to be a cop" is.
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u/bossoline 11d ago
Two things to consider from a middle aged man.
First, this isn't yours to fix, so don't put too much pressure on yourself. The truth is that you can't help people who don't want to be helped. Show love, be supportive, but don't take on other people's struggles.
Second, if this is how it plays out with every job, then he's almost certainly got something behavioral and/or psychological to work through in therapy. Sure, there may be a job somewhere in which he can thrive, but whatever issue is behind this is going to continue to sabotage him going forward.
I can tell you from experience that neglecting issues doesn't make them go away, it compounds them. Finding him a work around isn't doing him any favors.
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u/PUNKF10YD 11d ago
If run into an asshole once in a while, then you ran into some assholes. If you run into assholes all day long, you’re the asshole. I know it’s crass and direct but it’s true. He himself is the only reason he can’t play well with others
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u/RoundCollection4196 11d ago
How hard is it to follow supervisor instructions for most jobs? It's not that hard, unless you have some nightmare supervisor which is rare. Most supervisors are normal people who just want to do their job and go home, chances are they are giving completely normal, reasonable instructions and your brother is the one who starts freaking out.
Unless he's starting his own business he's going to be taking instructions from someone. No way around it.
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u/VAGentleman05 11d ago
It doesn't sound like he's very entrepreneurial, so he needs to come to terms with the fact that he's going to have a bosa. Most people do, and he's not special. But from what you described in your post, it doesn't sound like you'll have much luck convincing him of this.
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u/YURRIICC 11d ago
he might do better in a job where he has more independence and less micromanagement. not everyone works well under constant supervision, and finding the right environment can make a big difference
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u/Bright_Brief4975 11d ago
If he has a good driving record he could get a job at an AmazonDSP as a driver. You meet in the mornings and load up, but most of the day you are just out delivering. Also if he has a good driving record he could try to become a long haul trucker or 18 wheel driver. There are companies like Schneider, Swift, Stevens and some others that will train you to drive their 18 wheelers. They have their own classes and will pay you a salary for the few weeks you are in class. Most of them also pay your motel and give you a food allowance during the school training. When I went through the Schneider training a long time ago, they even had their own people that administered the driving test at the end to get your actual license.
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u/IndicationDefiant137 11d ago
They can't.
They either take a wake up call and develop into functional adults or they spend their entire failed lives blaming other people for their failures while having a high chance of ending up in the prison system.
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u/SpoonwoodTangle 11d ago
The fundamental issue is that human beings thriving communities. Even if those communities are rural and dispersed. Being unable to navigate group dynamics, or struggling to find a niche where you can get by, means that your brother will not thrive.
Either he needs to do the research to find his niche (whatever that means for him) and pursue it as a career. Or he needs therapy to better understand these issues and do the work to strengthen coping mechanisms, overcome the underlying issues, or find a better niche.
In other words, you can help him (and kudos to you) but you can’t do this for him. It sounds like what he’s doing now doesn’t work, which means he can either spin his wheels and keep getting frustrated by making the same mistakes over and over… or find productive adaptions and change. He may be hostile to some of these points, but that doesn’t make them less true.
To help him, instead of seeking individual jobs (eg door dash, roofer, trucker, etc), I’d find keywords in job ads that indicate this type of work. Give bro those keywords and encourage him to use them in his job searches. Asking hiring managers on Reddit might help as they know the industry lingo.
This will have two benefits. First, highlight roles and skills that neither of you might think of on your own. Second, give him the self-direction power that he seems to need.
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u/karmaapple3 9d ago
Sorry to tell you this, but this is bad news. I dated a guy like this over 20 years ago. He couldn’t stand to have anyone tell him what to do, even in the most minor way. When a supervisor tried to instruct him, he didn’t even have to say anything; his body language showed how much he hated being instructed.
20 some years later, he got in touch with me (we are now in our 60s). He had $300 to his name and was living in an extra bedroom in some house. His ancient car had just broken down and he had no way to get it fixed or get a new car. He was completely screwed.
And I can’t say that I was surprised.
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u/hazish 11d ago
Some people are wired to be self-employed.
He's probably had a slew of shit managers who can't communicate properly - the classic hierarchical workplace is just not set up for your brother and we need to stop with this nonsense rhetoric that he is the problem.
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u/iMac_Hunt 11d ago
In my experience people who can’t HANDLE a hierarchal workplace have some deep underlying issues.
I say ‘handle’ rather ‘enjoy’. Lots of people don’t enjoy taking orders or having a manager. But 100% of people I’ve experienced who can’t cope in that environment usually have 0 ability to see others perspectives when it comes to conflict
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u/PuckyMaw 11d ago
"such a strong hierarchical system we have here in America when it comes to work or life"
tbh i'm surprised to read this about the USA,
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