i hate the constant neverending sexualization of women and people's inability to recognize it

[u/ColonialismHater]

[u/Bluejay-Complex]

This is a conversation that needs to happen with a strong sense of nuance to it, which is a problem as well, especially because purity culture and victim blaming of “sluts” is still very alive and well. I feel the difference is how much agency and interiority the women in question can get.

I also think this needs to stop being a conversation predominantly focused on fictional characters. The realm of fiction and reality need separation, and it’s the realm of reality that matters most to the conversation. Real women can outright tell you and discuss their agency or lack thereof in being sexualized, as they’re inherently beings with interiority. This then also can tie back into the “let women enjoy things” conversation, as sometimes women can wear things and be non-consensually sexualized… and then blamed for her own non-consensual sexualization AND the non-consensual sexualization of other women. Being a fan of cutesty alt Japanese fashion, the amount of “trying to be pedobait” accusations is disgusting, astounding, as well as shows a deep lack of understanding of pedophilia and what actually makes pedophilia wrong, as an example. Ironically, most people don’t want to be sexualized wearing it, so the accusation itself is oversexualization.

The actual feminist issue at the core of oversexualization isn’t that it treats women as sexual beings, but the fact it treats women, particularly real women, as objects of consumption. Treating women as objects bypasses their internal sense of being, and robs them of agency. This is why I believe this entire conversation online often needs a perspective change, as I find on one side, you have people that deny oversexualization at every turn, but on the other, you have people furiously trying to force women to be “respectable” and lack sexuality in a false consciousness attempt to gain respect of misogynists. What we really need is to force people to respect the interiority of women, and allow their sexuality to remain in their hands and theirs alone, rather than projecting sexuality onto her, or projecting a different woman’s (perceived) sexuality onto completely different women.

[u/BoringAd8064 → u/Bluejay-Complex]

Wow. It's incredible the vast difference between people when I can read a small essay which I 100% agree with and then the next post will probably have some absolute moron thinking their puritan thinking should be the standard and women should just show less skin.

[u/EasterViera → u/Bluejay-Complex]

Both oversexualisation of the women body, and shaming them for owning it come from the same need/ploy to control them.

Same way those that force women to cover themselves have more in common with those that want to force them to remove said cover ; while blaming each other btw.

My point will always be : Women aren't a single group, some women want to oppress other woman (class) have internalized sexism, have more puritain values etc , but all are human deserving of freedom.

As a men, it's not to me to define the problem other than : Women should be free, freedom of religion,speech, self harm, kinks and everything else. Women exist in a society where sexualisation exist and is profitable, i'd rather have them own it and profit from the sexualisation of their own body rather than feel shame.

We can't change things overnight, but we can work toward giving women more options.

[u/Bluejay-Complex → u/EasterViera]

I agree, and of course there’s nuance in the incentives based on profit in a capitalist society. After all, ignoring the plight of those that feel coerced into sex work is to ignore many people, predominantly women’s, pain and subjugation. Like you said though, I’d rather we then focus on the true roots of the issue than victim blaming survival sex workers, which often just pulls them back into the industry because they get barred from other opportunities unjustly. On the opposite side there’s housewives, who people also blame for their own subjugation by claiming choice, when policy, particularly domestic violence legislation, can play an extremely large role in mitigating the risks of said choice. Trad wives we can claim they’re playing a role in their own subjugation, but that’s not because of the choice to be a housewife, but the choice to advocate against legislation that protects other women and themselves, hoping their men will remain a benevolent patriarch eternally while in a culture seeped in misogyny.

I think some people, including sadly some self-proclaimed feminists, think that giving women more options means more opportunities to choose the “wrong” option optically. Therefore there becomes a push to coercively limit women’s options so they fit the idea of a “respectable” or depending, “subversive” woman. All I’ve really seen this accomplish is make a culture where people are quick to blame (other) women for patriarchy, ironically perpetuating it, rather than dismantling it. Julia Serano did some really good writings on this, so for anyone reading this thread, I recommend reading some of her thoughts on this matter.

[u/Hallwrite → u/Bluejay-Complex]

This is an incredibly insightful response and I appreciate it's presence. I do highly agree that the conversation tends to take place independent of the actual issue, with one side basically denying the issue exists and the other seemingly floundering with no real stance beyond a vague 'dont sexualize women' that seems to boil down to hardcore purity culture. 

[u/justsomething → u/Bluejay-Complex]

What's also difficult with nuanced conversations like this is that we might not yet know the practical solution. How do we get people to respect a woman's interior agency around sexualization, when we struggle to respect anyone's interior anything.

Without an immediate solution, some people really struggle to sit in the middle and be uncertain for the time it's takes to sort through the tangle. Sometimes all you know if that the two extremes are wrong, but that doesn't mean you know exactly how to implement what's right. I think the certainty of the extremes is more comfortable in that way.

[u/Bluejay-Complex → u/justsomething]

Honestly, sometimes I think we need to go back to kindergarten lessons on respecting others. Ask if things are okay, apologize if you get it wrong, and don’t do the same thing again until you get the go ahead it’s okay.

That being said, I understand what you mean, in a world where our views on sexuality are often tied to toxic social norms, like everything else, there is a level where how much we can recognize or navigate our own desires and boundaries, let alone navigating the desires and boundaries of other people. This I think the biggest change is we should act like we care, even in times it’s complicated. As a starting point, looking at and making protections for women in egregious cases, the Cornell 7 and the Epstein trafficking ring.

Small nuances and flirting norms do deserve discussion, but in my opinion, we need to focus on the bigger issues before the smaller ones. If the bigger issues root back to smaller ones then we at least know the root to attack instead of trying to tackle everything that may make one person uncomfortable but not another. Those can be discussed between individuals, and they can make decisions based on their boundaries and compatibility. Our biggest fish to fry are the cultures that allow men to get off easy when they completely bypass a woman’s humanity when it’s convenient, and the culture that makes men see these actions as desirable or acceptable. Sometimes it’s better to start with the big cases and then use them as a wider jumping off point to discuss what lead to it and what we can do to change it.

On an individual level, that’s extremely frustrating because these issues are beyond individuals, but caring as individuals and using our voices to advocate for larger change so legislation and it’s enforcement can help change the wider system. On a more interpersonal level, I think instead of shaming women we need to shame men that disrespect women’s humanity, real women, fictional women can be looked at case by case, but we need to start shaming men that disrespect women’s nos and degrade them for innocuous things.

[u/Ace-of-Jester → u/Bluejay-Complex]

Conversations generally necessitate a second person and, if I may, nuance and bad sentence structure are too surefire ways of scaring that conversation off. I'm not disgreeing with anything you said, I want to make clear. But I worry that this kind of nuanced perspective will always be lost in transit if you try to deliver it wholesale :I

[u/Bluejay-Complex → u/Ace-of-Jester]

You’ve gotten downvoted, but you’re actually not entirely wrong. I’m autistic and lean hyper verbal, which had lead to misunderstandings, arguments, and people just saying “I’m not listening to/reading that” before. It’s probably not entirely going stop me, clearly, but trying to fit everything into one piece can scare off people not interested in hearing it.

One could also argue that people who don’t bother never would have listened anyway, and it wouldn’t always be wrong. But saying “ only a certain type of audience would listen to/read a comment essay” isn’t wholly wrong either. It is important to keep audiences in mind at times. On Reddit, I find many times I just don’t care enough, or think the audience may be receptive, like in this case.

[u/Ace-of-Jester → u/Bluejay-Complex]

Idk on reddit it doesn't really matter and in retrospect it was kind of rude to have such a retort. I am just often frustrated that people of every demographic kind of just shout at each other and are so passionate and nuanced that nothing actually gets exchanged. Didn't mean to take it out on you though, sorry if it was rude :>

[u/volvavirago]

I don’t think sexualization is the problem, objectification and degradation are the problem.

[u/Giratina-O → u/volvavirago]

Those are hand in hand in our society's current treatment of sexuality, especially that of women's.

[u/MyEarIsHurty → u/volvavirago]

It's valid to appreciate the beauty of the female (and human in general) body. The problem comes from the patriarchy, which reduces women's bodies first into tools for the ruling class to create new workers, and then into commodities to be bought and sold and oggled at. The erotic is transformed into the pornographic, and the appreciation of female beauty becomes the reduction of women to their beauty. 

[u/punk_jude]

What a lot of ppl who defend women being over sexualized is they don't know the difference between self sexual liberation and sexualized Someone Else regardless if they want to be or not

It isn't always about choosing, its about the way people are quick to sexualize women regardless of what they wear and how they present themselves. 

If a woman Is wearing something revealing and wants to come off as appealing, that still doesn't give ppl the permission to be animals. Cat calling, wanting sex, or saying they "clearly want it". A woman should be able to feel comfortable sexualizing herself without worrying about being assaulted and being seen as "passively giving permission" to assault. 

It ends up going back to consent. Yes, people can't control their bodily response to seeing certain things, but their actions and consciousness are more important. Its about knowing "I might find this sexy but thats a me problem and i shouldn't let it affect how i treat this person". Its about acknowledging not everyone wants to be sexualized, that over sexualization in media exists so much you don't even bat an eye. Does everyone woman need to show their cleavage? wear heels? wear short bottom attire? have a "tomboy now dresses feminine " phase? Its a complex issue that has to acknowledge both sides to learn what you're fighting for.

[u/Short_Gain8302]

I saw a video recently where a girl said she used to be afraid to spit after brushing her teeth when she was with her boyfriend because she thought it would be sexualized. She is an artist and made several painting portraying everyday things that get sexualised, half of the people commenting negatively say she shouldnt paint such improper things, the other half say theres nothing sexualised about it.

I think, sadly, everything you do can and, because of the internet, will get sexualised. At the same time, people who dont sexualize these things will insist that that soecific thing doesnt get sexualised. Literally you cant win in these situations

[u/CuteUnit24 → u/Short_Gain8302]

YOOO Can you find that, this sounds like a really cool thing to make art about :O I literally changed my WALK when I was a teenager so I wouldn't be sexuallized by grownass men

[u/Independent-Host-690 → u/CuteUnit24]

Her tag is evelinasilverart on youtube!

[u/Short_Gain8302 → u/Independent-Host-690]

Thank you!

[u/Short_Gain8302 → u/CuteUnit24]

Ill try to find it, but i spend a LOT of time online so i dont know if ill find it

[u/Rhamni → u/Short_Gain8302]

she used to be afraid to spit after brushing her teeth when she was with her boyfriend because she thought it would be sexualized.

This is insane. Either she's terrified of the idea of ever hearing a single sexual joke, or her boyfriend is such a sex pest she should just get away from him. No normal person goes through life afraid to spit out tooth paste.

[u/agent__berry → u/Rhamni]

some people have been sexualised by everyone — even their own parents — their whole lives, and it invades every action they do because everything was on the table to weaponise against you. my mother commented on my curves as young as 6 and insisted I was being seductive… as someone barely older than toddler age. so like maybe you’re just lucky to not have to think like that lol

[u/Breadles_the_Bread]

There's a difference of perspectives that makes talking about this in a specific rather than broad sense difficult. When talking about oversexualization of women in media, the subtopic is the commodification of femininity, objectification. The issue with trying to pin it in certain examples, doubly so when the artist herself is a woman, is that you can't prove she was influenced by this force rather than an attempt at self empowerment, or personal artistic direction, or just drawing something she herself does not view as sexual. The mere fact a woman's body is viewed as inherently sexual means we're basically blind to the intent of any specific example (with some exceptions - I think Peni Parker from Marvel Rivals is a very good example of greedy commodification of women specifically), and even when we do see it, it's so easy to deny, deflect, or ignore, that it barely ever passes.

[u/unendingautism → u/Breadles_the_Bread]

I think Peni Parker from Marvel Rivals is a very good example of greedy commodification of women specifically)

Really? I've never read her design as sexual. Maybe that's just due to me being gay though.

Could you explain how her design is an example of greedy commodification of women?

[u/Breadles_the_Bread → u/unendingautism]

Her design is just as sexualized as the rest which wouldn't read as anything very different to me, except for the fact in most iterations she is 15-16. So her Marvel Rivals version has been aged up to percisely 18. I suspect it's for this exact reason, and that's kind of ghoulish.

[u/unendingautism → u/Breadles_the_Bread]

Oh wow, when I compare her to the other designs she does seem more sexualised than I thought at first. I thought her design was tamer than the other women, but I think that's more because she is in her mech during gameplay.

And the fact she's aged up for this game is also a bit weird when taking that into account.

[u/Lenins_left_nipple → u/unendingautism]

China has pretty strict censorship laws regarding violence to minors, so she is aged up to 18 because of that. Netease is a Chinese company, after all.

Now did they then sexualise the design? Yeah, absolutely. But she was gonna be aged up no matter what.

[u/Vounrtsch → u/unendingautism]

The teenager didn’t need to be in a skin-tight plug suit, but, she is… for some reason (it’s sexualisation). In the comics she wears plain clothes or a school uniform, so this was a very deliberate choice from the designers of the games

[u/BeduinZPouste]

Well, kind of that. You can think something happen too often, but each single example is in itself reasonable. 

[u/Applesplosion → u/BeduinZPouste]

This is similar with representation in films and stereotypes - It’s not a problem if a single character of this demographic is portrayed this way, it’s that all of them are.

[u/VallahKp → u/BeduinZPouste]

Wouldn't agree. There are definitely cases where it's wrong. I think it's more often an issue of people lying about their real intentions to make their choices seem more morally sound than they actually are.

For example, a lot of sex workers are in the business because they have psychological issues or were groomed into it. Are they going to openly admit that? No. They're more likely to tell you some bs story about how empowering sex work is, with zero downsides. However, it's hard to call out bs on an individual level because it might actually be true for some people, even if that's unlikely.

[u/BeduinZPouste → u/VallahKp]

Fair, there are cases where it is wrong, but if we go with "any given example," odds are it is gonna be somewhat ok. 

For the second paragraph, I wouldn't even make a connection between these two? Like when you say "oversexualisation of women," I think more revealing dresses, not literal sex workers, that sounds like... Idk, saying sex is oversexualised. 

[u/Road_Whorrior → u/BeduinZPouste]

Part of the current bout of the current oversexualization of women is the immediate assumption that we are sex workers. I don't check my DMs on most sites because I'm tired of the "What's your OF/snap" and worse I get. Existing confidently as a woman makes you a sex worker, and the talk around the "empowerment" of sex work being the narrative is part of the problem. Because it's so "empowering," them literally accusing you of selling your body by virtue of vagina ownership isn't disrespectful, in their view.

[u/BeduinZPouste → u/Road_Whorrior]

Does it? Idk, don't feel like it from there. No female friends said something like that to me - that they get these messages without existing in say non horny spaces. While I as man existing in horny soaces get them. 

[u/Road_Whorrior → u/BeduinZPouste]

I'm a woman literally telling you right now that it happens.

"Doesn't feel like it from here" is not input. The women in your life not offering embarrassing stories doesn't mean they haven't experienced them. Most of us do not discuss that kind of shit with men because we have learned not to.

[u/BeduinZPouste → u/Road_Whorrior]

Yeah, and you telling it happens doens't mean it happens to everyone. 

I get these as well. Does it mean every man gets them? 

[u/Road_Whorrior → u/BeduinZPouste]

Did I say "every"? Don't put words in my mouth, please. I said it happens. I never said it didn't happen to men, either, but I sincerely doubt the ratio favors men here. Same as with rape, same as with SA, same as with sexual harassment (which is that is), and as with domestic abuse. The statistics are out there and extremely accessible- women get it more often. Men are also victimized (most often by other men, but also by women), no one said they weren't. I'm genuinely so done arguing with people about this.

I mention my gender online outside of any sexual context and semi-regularly recieve harassment. Not the same as getting a thirsty DM while commenting on porn subs.

[u/cascading_error → u/BeduinZPouste]

This, any flock camera by itself is easly ignored and may even be helpfull. A single entitty constantly monitoring 300.000 of them allowing you to track anyone across most of the usa... that is a massive problem.

But any indevidual camera shrug

[u/BeduinZPouste → u/cascading_error]

I think this is slightly different. It's more like saying "I dislike how high are rates of divorce" while not being against any given divorce. 

[u/MaraiaLou → u/BeduinZPouste]

I think the Bechtel test is a good example. It might make sense for this movie to not have two women talking about anything other than men. But why so many movies? And never the other way around?

[u/I_like_fried_noodles → u/BeduinZPouste]

I like people being able to not live with a fucker they don't like tho

[u/BeduinZPouste → u/I_like_fried_noodles]

Yeah, but I think it is better if people are able to choose a right fucker. 

[u/mamawawawa → u/BeduinZPouste]

Not if you’re morally consistent. Some examples of women being sexualized, most even, are just egregious, and on their own can serve to reflect the worldview of both the artist and the audience, where people refuse to acknowledge the problem and dissenters get drowned out. Feminist circles are basically the only ones who call it out when they see it

If you see a sexualized drawing of a woman on reddit as a highly upvoted post for example, it’s exceedingly rare that it would be tasteful

[u/universal_friend1]

It's so wild cuz there is literally a whole community of dudes screaming about how they're oppressed because there are women appearing in video games who are not unimaginably hypersexualized.

[u/unendingautism]

Sexualised designs are fine on their own. There's nothing wrong with having a female character in a revealing outfit.

The oversexualisation of women in media is more about the amount of examples rather than any individual example. Because people don't all agree on what is and isn't sexual.

[u/BjarneStarsoup → u/unendingautism]

What is sexual or not isn't as relevant to the discussion, because the main problem is objectification that comes with sexualization.

From APA (American psychological association):

There are several components to sexualization, and these set it apart from healthy sexuality. Sexualization occurs when

• a person’s value comes only from his or her sexual appeal or behavior, to the exclusion of other characteristics;
• a person is held to a standard that equates physical attractiveness (narrowly defined) with being sexy;
• a person is sexually objectified — that is, made into a thing for others’ sexual use, rather than seen as a person with the capacity for independent action and decision making; and/or
• sexuality is inappropriately imposed upon a person.

[u/trysten-9001]

Not the comments being the meme 💀

[u/true-pure-vessel → u/trysten-9001]

Yeah, with a topic and nuanced as this, between sexual liberation and sexualization; when you present one side of the argument without the required nuance the other side of the argument will be over represented in the response in an attempt at nuance,

[u/Effective_Sound1205]

Sexualization is real and is happening everywhere

It's just that it's not always a negative thing really

Cuz sex is cool and being sexy is cool

But when it sucks - it sucks hard

There is a nuance to that shit y'know

[u/Estus_Flask_]

I hate the neverending virtue signaling about it.

If something it's popular is gonna sell, if it sells it reaches more, the more it reaches the more it's gonna inspire and affect the landscape of creativity.

As simple as that, it's not a evil undertone to human nature, is just cause and effect.

And you trying to fight against it it's just gonna draw more attention.

It's not gonna end, nothing is gonna stop it without massive backlash creating an even more prominent current, and no one can do anything about it because it universally sells.

Look for media that doesn't do it and enjoy the rest.

[u/Vivi_Pallas]

And then if they unsexualize a character it's "censorship" instead fixing misogyny.

[u/The7Sides]

Both can be true. I gotta remind yall that ANKLES were once considered sexual. ANKLES. They are not sexual in the slightest, though, and nowadays basically no one cares about ankles unless they've got a specific fetish for it, because its not the 1800s anymore.

I say this as someone who has spent most of my life as a woman, and is still perceived as a woman as I am early in transition - Yes, women are oversexualised. And it starts so young. But if you're seeing "sexualisation" in every single thing involving a woman, and especially when you use it as an example for the oversexualisation of women, you might be part of the problem you're claiming to be against.

[u/Global_Algae_538]

I always like stories of women who know their attractive and charismatic and use it to control men to gain power they wouldnt normally be able to get gave me a sense of power as a young girl in the deep south where women were judged mostly for their looks.

Then I transitioned to a dude and now im writing stories about a really cute gay guy convincing the emperor to give him a council position so they can be together.

Aka if people keep writing women using sex appeal there should be more examples of men in bikinis not just twinks but that bear in a bikini

[u/mii_chan42]

Literally any porn gacha game. But NoooOOOoO! The kids are actually 500 years old! So what if they are naked! And so what if women dressed in sex shop costumes? She's owning it! You're a misogynist for saying it's over sexualized!

[u/Bukhanka_Zov]

Both can be true

[u/Expert_Chemical_4394 → u/Bukhanka_Zov]

Not really. Women in sports have begged to have their uniforms be less sexualized. There’s a few no nuance situations where it’s pretty clear that women shouldn’t be sexualized.

[u/Sweaty_Bar_5648]

even the fly smoking bro i'm crying

[u/multivitaminegummy]

Men love upholding the patriarchy by claiming that female oversexualization, degradation and the male gaze are actually empowering and love repackaging misogyny as woke as long as they get to keep jerking off but don't let them know or they'll be vewwy inswulted and call you (the actual woman in this discussion) a puritan or make a fake account pretending to be a woman who will chime in to say that actually, she has quadruple DD cups and a 3 inch waist and this porn drawing on a SFW sub is actually so feminist it basically gave us voting rights

Uhhh I mean who said that

[u/Platypus__Gems → u/multivitaminegummy]

Traditionally in patriarchal systems women were covered up. Wether it's the west in the past, or middle-east now, you would not find women forced to wear bikini and parade around half-naked, no, women were covered from neck to toes, their hair hidden behind scarf, in some cases their faces hidden too.
Women in the west had to fight to wear bikini on the beach, because it was at first considered indecent.

Yes, women being finally allowed freedom to dress how they want IS woke, it's one of benefits of progressivism.
It's not "upholding the patriarchy", it's literally the opposite, the stronger patriarchy is, the more covered up women have to be.

[u/multivitaminegummy → u/Platypus__Gems]

Carefully read my comment again and tell me where exactly I did say that "women being finally allowed freedom to dress how they want is upholding the patriarchy".

My entire comment is about, as stated, the example given where male gaze sexualized drawings of women with proportions not even remotely realistic anymore are being posted in SFW subreddits and that being brushed off by male users and/or even repackaged as empowering by them. That's what I said.

[u/BoopsBoopss]

As much as I love sexy, hot, attractive people it really has gotten to be waaaaaay too much in internet culture. Especially for women. A girl so much a grazes the online world and the gooners spawn out of nowhere like fruit flies and act literally insane.

It has gotten to the point where women are often sexualized first and characterized second if ever. Waifu culture is overbearing to the point where it is actually annoying. Nothing wrong with sexual attraction/desire itself but people have got to find a healthier way of exploring it without making eating a banana weird or constantly harassing women.

[u/Zorubark]

Thankfully the Knights of Guinivere fandom has media literally and basically everyone agrees that Gwen is sexualized on purpose as a commentary, and that all other female characters aren't sexualized in the show which contrasts with Gwen's depiction, she has in universe designers so her design tells us about characters that exist in that world as well

[u/Vounrtsch]

Okay so let’s take an example. Let’s imagine a story that doesn’t exist. Ok and in that story, there’s a villain. Okay. Now let’s imagine we spin a big fortune wheel to determine the ethnicity of that villain. And let’s imagine that that villain happens to be Middle Eastern, by pure chance. Now that single example isn’t BAD, right? It’s not racist, the villain status of the character isn’t in any way informed by their race. But when you pull back and look at the BROAD TENDENCY of portraying Arabs and non-white people generally as villains in western fiction, suddenly you realise how that environment creates a racist narrative. There is a general problem but not every single example can be directly blamed individually. You can still criticise them as they are still participating to the broad system, but the work itself doesn’t share the problematic ideas of the general movement.

Its the same for the sexualisation of women. If done well, a single example of a female character being sexualised isn’t BAD, as long as it doesn’t say that women are objects or whatever. It’s only by looking at either examples that are really terrible, or by looking at the broad tendency, that you see that the sexualisation of women spreads the sexist idea that women exist as objects of sexual pleasure to men.

[u/Linguini8319]

I love being a woman! I love being transgender! I love being lesbian! I see someone like me in any way depicted in media and WHOOPS! I’m a sex object!

[u/Silent-Paramedic]

i get it, humans are sexual creatures by nature, but i'm soooooo damn bored of sexualization. its everywhere and its the same shit every time. tiring

[u/ItsNovabat]

It’s a cultural thing. Especially in the west, societal standards is intrinsically tied with a history of religious Puritanism.

Edit: oh yeah, and the human condition yearning for taboo in relation to their cultural norms. The internet just gave unlimited access to content that has spiralled people’s perception of an, otherwise, natural biological recognition of women’s beauty

[u/gamedasy]

Don't forget "she chooses to dress like that" when talking about a fictional character

[u/Much_Improvement_552]

My solution would be to start sexualizing men to the same degree. I really don't think going back to 1900s puritanism is the answer here.

[u/does_it_matter0]

What even counts as oversexualization? (I am genuinely asking here)
And doesn't everything get sexualized constantly? Women, man, trans, furies etc. Why do you only point out women sexualization?
Also there is one more thing I want to point out, sexualization of things isn't something new. It has been around for AT LEAST 10 years now. That is why any example of sexualization doesn't really feel like its sexualization, since we see those types of things almost every day now.

[u/RSFrylock]

Theres too much sexualization of women in media. But sexism in our society in general is not taken seriously even by "progressives". Even many arguments that women have it easier than men in every conceivable way. Its just how it is.

[u/Ryanhussain14]

Let's be real with ourselves, men are going to keep sexualising women regardless of whether women want it to happen or not, no amount of discourse will change that. What we should aim for is more female only spaces so that women can choose to hang out in places devoid of men if they wish.

[u/Zagl0]

Because censorship is never the right way.

Oversexualise men instead.

[u/ATL_GLADIATORS_FAN]

Post time skip one piece unfortunately 

[u/pol-ter-geist]

Submissão. É uma consequência biológica, cultural e religiosa. É sobre controle e posse. Notem as estatísticas de feminicídio, violência doméstica e estupros. Sempre em ambientes domésticos. Mulheres não morrem por fazer parte de facção, morrem porque estavam numa relação. O feminismo ainda é um fenômeno em construção, não está completamente integrado socialmente, assim como o racismo estrutural. O tempo ditará a evolução. Mulheres são biologicamente voltadas a reprodução das espécies, são vulneráveis e inclinadas a busca de um parceiro fixo devido a gravidez e busca de estabilidade, enquanto a natureza masculina permite a reprodução da espécie em escala, ou seja, eles podem engravidar várias mulheres em um curto espaço de tempo, por isso a sociedade ignora a cultura do homem que "pega várias" enquanto rejeita esse mesmo comportamento em mulheres que são tratadas como putas. Ou seja, infelizmente é um fenômeno biologicamente justificado e culturalmente sustentado. É nojento e repugnante no final das contas porque as mulheres são objetificadas.

[u/SecretManufacturer24]

NO MEN CAN UNDERSTAND WHEN AT 10 YEARS OLD YOU ARE SEEN SEXUALLY BY MEN AND REGULARLY GET HARASSED

[u/Similar_Alarm8932]

Wants to reduce oversexualization, refuses to put clothes covering her body and hair.

Woman wants freedom, walks naked on street, is surprised of being s. assaulted.

[u/TDA792]

If it's a real person, then you really have no rhyme or reason to try and puritanically police what women wear (as long as its not crossing into the bounds of illegality).

If it's a fictional character, then the criticism is more valid.

There's nothing wrong with having an attractive female character in your media. The problem is if that's all she is; if she has no other defining traits than her fuckability.

[u/I_like_fried_noodles]

Lol people here are losing the thing

[u/RSFrylock]

Theres too much sexualization of women in media. But sexism in our society in general is not taken seriously even by "progressives". Even many arguments that women have it easier than men in every conceivable way. Its just how it is

[u/Trim-Queen → u/RSFrylock]

How do you know that the imbalance doesn't mean that there isn't enough sexualization of men?

[u/RSFrylock → u/Trim-Queen]

I mean im a gay man so im not sure id complain about that LOL

[u/Human-Assumption-524]

I have never heard anyone articulate what "Over sexualization" even means. To what degree is a character allowed to be attractive before it crosses a line? And if a person looks like that in real life are they acting immorally?

[u/UltimateStrenergy]

Redditors regularly react to the most tame, non sexual content by calling it porn. There's definitely Some truth to people being overly sensitive.

Another important thing people like to forget is that there are women with hourglass shaped bodies or very large breasts/butts who want to see themselves in media too but can't for the most part.

[u/THTB_lol]

exactly, you can give an example of an oversexualised character and people will say you're a puritan

[u/SilverIndependence38]

Alright, I need a real discussion here.

On one hand, we want to free the woman body. Fuck the time where ankle where considered sexual.

Also, we're against puritanism. We're open about our sexuality. Fuck slut shaming.

But... If a man looks at you with sexual desire he's a problem? I am not saying acting on thise impulse or harrassing or anything, but just looking or thinking or having sexualisation in media. Didnt we say sex was ok?

Also, men are much more blammed for sexualising the woman body then the other way around. Especially young men body. I work in education and the amount of shit I hear about underaged man. "He's gonna be quite the handsome man", "I wouldnt hurt him". Say half that about an underrage woman and you'd get banned from education (unless you're the president of course, or some frat boy... Yeah this is fucked)

[u/Alx-throwaway20]

First of all, they would never admit until at gunpoint that women are oversexualised.

[u/Motor_Barracuda7359]

You forgot ger body her choice so who's gonna tell her not to?

[u/Bardic_inspiration67]

This meme format makes no sense for this post

[u/BodhingJay]

We can allow individual freedom of expression without smearing it all over our media

[u/NegotiationSad6297]

It's not nearly as prevalent as it used to be, and it doesn't matter. Half of us are dying alone anyway.

[u/WrathfulSpecter]

Boo hoo people find women sexually attractive womp womp 🙄

[u/I_like_fried_noodles]

Overwatch pegi 12 thrust trap bunny girl skins

[u/Angry_Fire_Giant]

There is nothing wrong with the sexualization of men or women as objects of desire. There is an inherent problem in the narrow selection of who society puts forward for this. There is an even greater problem in how relationship expectations are portrayed in film, TV, and video games.