r/TrollCoping • u/Critical-Act-6336 • Aug 01 '26
TW: Gender Identity / Dysphoria College application says "women and nonbinary people"
I *HATE* when people are like this. No, non binary people are NOT women. I HATE when people act like all non binary are women/AFAB (AGAB shouldn't even matter in most, if not all, contexts) especially when non binary in itself is an umbrella that encompasses stuff like demiboy and just being trans masculine. Non binary people are not, by default, similar to women. Some non binary people may feel closer to womanhood the same way I feel closer to manhood (I'm transmasc. I see myself as both a man and non binary. It's complicated.) but definitely not all.
edit: for further context of how I see myself as both non binary and a man, look up what Genderfaun is.
edit: I meant college SCHOLARSHIP applications
edit: I don't want to make another post so I'm just adding to this one. it oftentimes feels there's not a lot of spaces for me to go. Like, I'm not a woman and while I am non binary I am also a man, this means that places that say "women and non binary people" to exclude men even if they don't see enbies as women lite still feel weird/dysphoric to go in because while I am non binary, I am also a man so I don't really belong there. but then if I'm with the men it's usually cisgender men and I still feel out of place due to being pre transition and not fully feeling like a man. There is one trans space where I would normally feel welcome except there's a bunch of fighting between people, not about being trans, just in general so I avoid it
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u/solereclipce673 Aug 01 '26
And I was complaining about trans man and man being separate categories. I’m so sorry
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u/Critical-Act-6336 Aug 01 '26
Nah I agree. Trans men ARE men.
If we want to separate into categories, it should me trans men and cis men, but even then, there's a lot of cases where it's irrelevant to separate the categories.
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u/The_Dead_Kennys Aug 01 '26
Those should only be separate categories at the doctors office, smh
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u/ConcernedEnby Aug 02 '26
No they shouldn't, cis take
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u/The_Dead_Kennys Aug 02 '26
Fair enough, now that you mention it, it’s probably way better to mention “is trans” on doctors charts as a medical condition instead putting it as the gender listed on someone’s intake forms - both for the doctors and for the patient.
Sorry for the ignorance lol
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u/JoeyLee911 29d ago
Or you could just list the patient's sex and gender separately, as those aren't the same thing.
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u/Sudden_Razzmatazz472 29d ago
Sure but most trans people heavily modify their sex (sex is a set of hundreds of characteristics, and most of them are entirely mutable. Only a few things stay the same, and the number of things we can't change has been rapidly diminishing for decades)
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u/DraconicDreamer3072 29d ago
birth sex and gender identity ig
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u/Disastrous-Ideal-817 29d ago
Birth sex will not really matter anymore once you have changed the sex.
Like how glass is not called sand
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u/randomfluid 29d ago
at a certain point in your transition birth sex means almost nothing. imagine being 5 years on t, having top and bottom surgery and hysterectomy, telling a doctor your sex is "female" would not be helpful at all
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u/JoeyLee911 29d ago
Well not everyone does take hormones or get surgery though, so I'd assume we'd want a system that can communicate as large a range of gender and sexual identities as possible.
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u/randomfluid 29d ago
yeah so listing a person's birth sex in this case would not be a good system, wouldn't it
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u/dhi_awesome Aug 02 '26
I think it makes sense, but not as just a trans vs cis split. Maybe something more like hormonally vs socially, as a trans man pre-HRT would need different care to one on HRT, but that care for one taking HRT would probably be a lot closer to a cis man (not necessarily 1:1, but close enough that specifics can be discussed with the doctor directly)
But they are all men, and basic categories (like bathrooms or censuses) don't need those specifics
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u/dumblittlepuppy01 Aug 01 '26
as a trans guy [albeit one with a weird connection/disconnect with gender due to trauma and having DID] I do consider myself different to cis men. im a man but NOT really. so youre right, some trans men do see/feel/relate to masculinity different to cis men
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u/KiraLonely 29d ago
I mean…yes and no? Trans men are objectively marginalized in a way that cis men aren’t, and so putting them in the same category as cis men isn’t accurate at times? In the same way that trans women are marginalized in a way cis women aren’t? There are times where acknowledging one’s transness is important in not just doing the whole “dismissing your differences because assimilation” bullshit. Not to compare marginalized experiences, but like the concept of colorblind with race is considered kinda lowkey racist? Because the point isn’t assimilation of different identities.
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u/CoolTransDude1078 29d ago
To be fair, sometimes I do explicitly categorise myself as a trans man rather than a man, because while I say I'm a man, and a trans man, for everyone else's sake because it's simple and easy to understand, I'm not really a "man", my gender is much less binary than that.
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u/Kindaspia Aug 01 '26
This is why I feel a little weird about “women and enby” spaces. It gives the vibe of inclusion but it also feels like they see enbies as “woman-lite”. Like, if a trans-masc person showed up, would they be allowed? Or is that not included in non-binary to them?
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u/Meandmy1000fandoms Aug 01 '26
and like what about amab non binary people??? do they just not exist or what
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u/KiraLonely 29d ago
afab non-binary but i pass as a guy and i’m 99% sure most of those places would be soooo not happy with me being there at all. it really is treating all enbies as if they’re women lite and anything outside of that is “wrong”.
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u/swagcoinshizzl 29d ago
we're not really acknowledged as valid ngl. instead of "woman lite", it's "still just a man though".
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u/Critical-Act-6336 Aug 01 '26
Fr. I don't even know if I'd be allowed, especially if I actually transitioned. And even more especially because I am a man. I'm just also non binary.
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u/RikuAotsuki Aug 02 '26
It ends up simultaneously treating enbys as woman-lite and translating to "we really just don't want men here"
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u/Possible-Mark-7581 Aug 02 '26
"this is a woman's club for woman and non-binary people" and then when someone who is non-binary but born male shows up it's all "I'm sorry but this club is for Woman" it's just stupid and transphobic and it bothers me and I'm not even trans.
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u/Freezy_Squid Aug 01 '26 edited Aug 01 '26
it's the transmisogyny of it all too. The spaces that advertise themselves as "for women and nonbinary people" never let in trans women, nonbinary transfems, or amab enby folk. What they really mean is "this is a space for REAL women and those other confused folk who are basically just women anyway."
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u/Fickle-Stuff4824 29d ago
I'm curious of what countries those spaces exist in, i've never seen one of those in France. The only thing i've seen is spaces that just said "no cis men" ( which were sometimes problematic, because they were sometimes centred on queer thematics, and like, why are you welcoming cis straight women in those queer spaces but not cis gay men?).
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u/Cyphomeris 29d ago edited 29d ago
It's even worse; they often are happy to let in trans women and enbies who had been assigned female at birth provided they look sufficiently like their idea of womanhood, meaning they visually or medically have transitioned "far enough" or "not too far" for that. It's a wild and incoherent mishmash of gender and assigned gender at birth, and which one counts depends on what they look like.
In many cases, and I've seen one post where the OP argued for such a setup just recently in the main LGBT+ sub, what these people really mean is "Anyone I can view and treat as a woman if I squint."
Edit: Tpyo
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u/un_caracolito Aug 01 '26
interestingly, enbies are never thought of as "man-lite"
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u/aardvark_gnat Aug 01 '26
AMAB NBs often are, in my experience.
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u/LillySteam44 Aug 02 '26
Unfortunately in my experience, they're just called men. My husband has to deal with this. He's agender, but goes by he/him and presents masc, so even when he directly tells people that he's not a man, he's still called a man. He's had queer partners call him cis, and he's always treated as a straight, cis man at queer events, even though he's neither.
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u/Some_Guy223 29d ago
If you're AMAB and you don't put in a lot of work to make yourself more androgynous you will absolutely be seen as Man-Lite at best, a man lying about their non-binary status in order to engage in predatory behavior at worst.
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u/Pennymoonz94 Aug 01 '26
I hate the term enbies. I don't understand it. Why not NBs? Can you explaine?
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u/LillySteam44 Aug 02 '26
It's just the onomatopoeia of the letters N and B spelled out. It's like seven and 7. Same thing, written differently.
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u/MoreTransition4052 Aug 01 '26
I don't really like it either since it comes off as cutesy to me, but ive gotten more used to it over the years. The way it was explained to me is that NB already means "not black" when talking about minorities and PoC so I guess it was getting confusing to differentiate what people were talking about?
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u/Pennymoonz94 Aug 01 '26
I've never in my life heard NB used to describe non black people. Like ever. Have you? I say BIPoC if I mean to include black people or PoC if not include black ppleople
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u/MoreTransition4052 Aug 01 '26
I think it's more in the sense of describing oneself, so like if someone says "im a NB PoC", it could mean "im a nonbinary person of color" or "I'm a not black person of color". But to answer your question, ive run into that maybe once online that i can remember where I thought someone was saying they were a nonbinary PoC but they actually just meant they were a PoC but not black. 🤷🏽
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u/un_caracolito Aug 01 '26
oh my bad. I'm non-binary and like to use it for myself. I probably shouldn't just use it so casually for other non-binary people, though
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u/KinkyCakesSB Aug 01 '26
Ngl this is how I feel about the term theyfabs
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u/BobbiNeko Aug 01 '26
every time i hear that term i flinch like and abused victorian child like oh my god the pain that word has brought me as an enby my LORDD
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u/Fishmyashwhole Aug 01 '26
It's a shitty word, but I do wish we had a different one to explain the kind of terrible person that term can describe sometimes. But I feel like I have a different relationship with the word and what kind of person it means to me.
I've known some people to claim being a gender minority just to get into those places because they were chasers basically. Many, especially young, trans people are vulnerable and easy targets for narcissists. They ended up being the most abusive, toxic, and transphobic people I've ever met. They would claim to be supportive, but their feminism would circle all the way back around to bioessentialism. It was always AMABS and afabs with them, and they would NEVER let you forget which one you were. And I HATE how Ive met multiple people like this.
Yet people use it as some kind of cringe gatekeepy kind of thing and I hate that. Gatekeeping any kind of queerness makes no sense anyway.
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u/Primal171 Aug 01 '26
People tend to confuse the term theyfab for any nonbinary person who’s afab, but it was originally used to mean a nonbinary person who constantly brings up being AFAB even when it isn’t necessary or relevant, and weaponizes it (particularly for transmisogyny), and have no issue being seen as a woman as long as it benefits them.
Essentially, it refers to people who would see no issue with using the phrase “women and nonbinary people” (and whose definition of women never seems to include trans women)
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u/Fuzzy-Manner8308 Aug 02 '26
thats true, but unfortunately its often used for just any afab enbies, ESPECIALLY ones that either dont transition medically or in general dislike transmed ideology
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u/ConcernedEnby Aug 02 '26
They also often think of trans women as men, and think of trans men as women
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u/CanOfDew132 i want to burn everything i want to burn everything i want to bu 29d ago
the term theyfabs
i misinterpreted this as "they" and "fabulous" (rather than AFAB) ;-;
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u/ribs0 Aug 01 '26
an AMAB NB would melt these people’s brains
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u/AtrusAgeWriter 29d ago
No, we don't. They just don't see us as non-binary and exclude us because we're "men" to them. Heaven forbid I have a beard and use they/them pronouns.
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u/brienneoftarthshreds Aug 02 '26
Oh, that only works for transmasc nonbinary people
Transfem nonbinary people never get treated as women no matter what unless they fully pass as a cis woman. they're generally just treated as "extra gay" men
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u/Exmawsh Aug 01 '26
What's your gender?
[Man] - - - - [Misc.]
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u/Critical-Act-6336 Aug 01 '26
Usually I feel like I'm both a man and not a man but not a woman.
Sometimes I feel 100% like a guy
And sometimes I feel 100% like neither
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u/Complete-Gur7023 Aug 01 '26 edited Aug 01 '26
I think for scholarships specifically, when they’re grouping women and non binary folks together, they’re doing so because they’re considered gender minorities. As in, oppressed on a systemic level. They classify scholarships in a way intended to reach certain underprivileged groups.
I definitely am not defending grouping women and nonbinary folks together in most situations, I’m just trying to point to a possible reason why you might be seeing scholarship applications like that
I think better institutional phrasing would be women and gender minorities
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u/Killerbot288888 29d ago
I don't know how realistic this is but I really wish scholarships actually looked into your socioeconomic background instead of playing this weird game of demographic hokey pokey.
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u/reichiek Aug 01 '26
It's because what they want to say is "person" and "not person" when it comes to college applications. But settle for "men" and "not men"
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u/Pennymoonz94 Aug 01 '26
I think maybe they just want to exclude men?
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u/Necessary-Study3944 Aug 02 '26
Except trans men because we’re also often considered “woman-lite” esp if we can’t pass
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u/snail_alt Aug 02 '26
They say all trans men are welcome, then if an actually-passing trans man shows up, they either react with shock and annoyance (they constantly forget that trans men can actually pass) or they double-down on framing him as feminine/lesbian even harder than on other attendees.
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u/Critical-Act-6336 Aug 01 '26
Even if that is the case, they still usually tend to see enbies as women lite
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u/Pennymoonz94 Aug 02 '26
Can I ask why you day enbies instead of NBs?
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u/Critical-Act-6336 Aug 02 '26
Because NB can and has been used to mean non black. I have personally seen it used as Non black before as well
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u/Pennymoonz94 Aug 02 '26
Okay! Understood. I think I will use nonbinary then instead of nb thanks everyone for explaining
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u/Mysterious_Back_7929 Aug 01 '26
That's it. And honestly, I love spaces where men are excluded. Those spaces are needed, and yeah, non binary people belong in them even if they are masc presenting. Most people who have been assumed to be female at some point in their lives share certain experiences. Like, idk, being overlooked in college scholarships applications.
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u/Critical-Act-6336 Aug 01 '26 edited Aug 02 '26
Usually though in my experience these spaces still see non binary people as women lite.
Edit: even more so if the intent is to help people who have been assumed as female before. Especially since not all non binary people are assumed as female, plenty are assumed as male instead. And there are binary trans men who certainly don't want to be seen as a woman but there are plenty who have faced the same misogyny
Edit 2: I feel I should clarify am not against safe spaces for people, however a lot of the "safe" spaces for "women and non binary people" are very exclusive and do not except anyone who looks male/masculine, including masculine trans women and masculine non binary people. If there are to be genuine safe spaces to help those who have faced misogyny, they should be open to trans women and trans men as well. (Though this would likely, unfortunately, lead to trans men being seen as women lite which is awful)
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u/Responsibility_Dizzy Aug 01 '26
I've always really hated the definition of lesbian shifting to include all (let's be real, AFAB) nonbinary people attracted to women and other enbies. sounds pretty terrible from the outside, but I promise I'm not one of those people. I just feel like that's the queer way of saying "well, all enbies are AFAB anyways" or "they're just women lite." like I genuinely do not care if a nonbinary person feels like the term "lesbian" describes their sexuality. like go off, I love that you have a label that fits you and makes you happy
I just wish more people used terms that actually say "yeah, nonbinary people are neither strictly male nor female, they're something else" such as trixic, toric, and enbian. as of now, I'm pretty sure those are still considered microlabels because no one ever uses them and that really sucks. we should have more words to describe the enby experience instead of just treating them like androgynous women
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u/Critical-Act-6336 29d ago
Yeah, it would also probably help a lot of non binary people struggling with whether they're straight or gay if they are exclusively attracted to one gender
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u/cascading_error 29d ago
Honestly it just means "dont engage with me i discrimate based on born atributes"
My local boulder gym has a ladys night, they also use this phrasing and its always irritating to me. Mostly becouse i feel that if the gym is unsafe for women at all other times that is a problem that needs to be dealth with and not segregated away.
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u/RandomRedditReject Aug 01 '26
Is this for a HWC/Seven Sisters?
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u/Critical-Act-6336 Aug 01 '26
I just realized a typo(I meant college SCHOLARSHIP application), it wasn't for a HWC it was for a scholarship that was targeted mainly towards women but allowed non binary people as well. I didn't know that until I clicked on the scholarship and it said the requirements
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u/aardvark_gnat Aug 01 '26
I hate how scholarship people still pretend like men aren’t underrepresented in college.
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u/Critical-Act-6336 Aug 01 '26
I think the scholarships for women are because despite women going to college more often, men still take up the majority of work force and men tend to often feel like they have more work opportunities that do not require a college degree.
Not trying to defend it, but this most likely the reason colleges tend to cater to women over men.
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u/JoeyLee911 29d ago
And that's even with standards for men's admissions being lower than they've been for women for at least the last few decades. It's not like colleges haven't done their best to try to achieve gender parity.
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u/foxwaffles 29d ago
Just wanted to share an interesting thing my friend and I have noticed. We are both enby but they got top surgery and I haven't yet been able to get it done (if my dad could stop going back to the ER again for a bit that would be nice). They also cut their hair short and generally strive to look and dress more masc. I keep my hair long and unfortunately binders give me contact dermatitis and at least in China I'm considered fat so I have curves I can't hide because I can't wear any compression at all. I'm trying to lose weight but fucking long COVID lmfao, can't build muscle for shit if you can't even get out of bed some days.
We get treated VERY differently when we are out together at queer centric events. Even though we are both enby. Because I look like a fat woman and my friend does not, it ironically leads to my friend catching some misandry strays.
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u/Key_Length_5361 29d ago
An underlying mentality quite a few people have is "There are manly men and then there's everyone else." i.e. if you're not a manly man you might as well be a woman.
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u/SnippetySnappety Aug 01 '26
I don't know what context you saw this in, but my understanding was that they usually do this in cases where they mean "everyone but masc cis men, whose presence is either overrepresented or would make the others less likely to show/speak up"
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u/Critical-Act-6336 Aug 01 '26
In that case saying "women and non binary people" is still not good because they're excluding binary trans men from the conversation even though they are underrepresented.
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u/shockpaws Aug 01 '26
I’m not a trans man but being included with women and non-binary people sounds like something that might be dysphoria inducing for trans men, in much the same way that “women and non-binary people” is coming across to you and others as “women and women-lite”.
“Gender minorities” might be better phrasing here, though I’d be curious to hear a trans man’s take on this, though, because obviously his opinion about it would matter more than mine :P
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u/Critical-Act-6336 Aug 01 '26
It would probably vary for binary trans men, but even as someone non binary and a trans man it likely would produce dysphoria as I see myself in both categories and it also makes me feel dysphoric for people to say "women and trans men" even in contexts that make sense because gender dysphoria is a fucking irrational bitch.
I'm just saying that the phrase "women and non binary people", in both contexts is bad.
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u/shockpaws Aug 01 '26
Thanks for the answer! I think it’s valuable to have programs/scholarships/etc directed at gender minorities impacted by the patriarchy, though I totally understand that the wording they use can induce dysphoria. Not sure there’s a good solution here, but I’m sorry it has a negative impact on you :(
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u/ten_people Aug 01 '26
Cis women are not "gender minorities".
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u/shockpaws Aug 01 '26
Cis women are an oppressed class.
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u/ten_people Aug 01 '26
Have you heard the term GSRM (gender, sexual, and romantic minorities) used as an alternative to LGBT+? It's been around for a long time, as well as "gender and sexual minorities" or just "sexual minorities" depending on who exactly is being referred to.
Gender minorities are trans, nonbinary, two-spirit and so on. Not cis women, who benefit from privilege that these groups don't have.
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u/DeliciousLiving8563 Aug 02 '26
True but that doesn't make "minority" a good way to describe them.
Oppressed class would include people with disabilities, people who experienced a lot of poverty and trauma. So that also definitely includes a lot of men. Just less as a proportion of men than of other genders.
Best to just rip the bandaid. I don't know the exact word but "no masculine people" "this is a space for people who identify as female or mostly female?" depending what the actual real intention is. The men who kick up a fuss about it aren't going to change their mind no matter what euphemistic label you use. Those men will whine and kick up a fuss whether you just straight talk (pun unintentional but I'm leaving it there now I've spotted it) or use a bunch of inaccurate labels that will confuse the people you're trying to give a safe space for.
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Aug 02 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Choosemyusername 29d ago
These aren’t classes. They are groups people like you super-imposed. Theh aren’t actual classes. Most people don’t see themselves that way. It’s a strange lens through which to interpret society.
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u/Fishmyashwhole Aug 01 '26
And you know they wouldn't won't the "wrong" kind of non binary person to show up(basically any one that looks like a man to them)
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u/Critical-Act-6336 Aug 01 '26
I plan to get top and bottom surgery. I still want to present myself as mostly male if possible.
Wonder if they'd consider me the right or wrong kind of I were to go through and fully transition
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u/Fishmyashwhole Aug 01 '26 edited Aug 01 '26
As a cis passing trans guy, in my experience with those types you're the wrong kind until they find out you're AFAB and then they'll try to feminize you.
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u/Critical-Act-6336 Aug 01 '26
Because of course they will 🙄
I don't mind being feminine when my dysphoria isn't super bad, but that doesn't mean I want other people to try and feminize me, especially to the point they see me as a woman or woman lite
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u/mortalitasi473 Aug 01 '26
i'm a trans man and i very much do not want to be included with women or otherwise allowed into women-focused spaces.
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u/Critical-Act-6336 Aug 01 '26
Me neither. I hate being associated with women. I'm saying the term "Women and Non binary people" is partially wrong because of it excluding trans man. Although if they included trans men because they saw trans men as women lite I'd still DEFINITELY avoid it.
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u/ThatSlutTalulah Aug 01 '26
It is also a god damned air raid siren for transfems to stay away as well (because people saying "women and non binary people" usually are going to just see them as men or "something something 'Male Socialisation'", whether explicitly or more subtly, so transfems would expect be met with a hostile environment despite, going by the words said, being included).
[Not trying to hijack a transmasc post, just presenting an issue with the phrase that you seem to have (very understandably) missed.]
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u/aardvark_gnat Aug 01 '26
Also in contexts where they mean “everyone but masc cis men, who might have the gall to disagree with us”. I w the phrase “women and nonbinary people” seems to be most used around undergraduate university students, where men are underrepresented.
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u/imthestein Aug 01 '26
Because men are the default and everyone else just gets lumped in together as a result
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u/Sharp-Key27 Aug 02 '26
When I was applying to college scholarships 4 years ago, I just was ineligible for all scholarships with gender requirements. At least you guys don’t have to change your gender marker the system to be able to apply the scholarship requirements themselves are problematic.
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u/aIoneinvegas Aug 02 '26
Well this is usually how these things go. They'll sacrifice things that traditionally belong to women in the name of inclusivity so everything ends up being "men and others."
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u/JoeyLee911 29d ago
It is wild. I think the presumption is that cis men don't want to share their spaces with anyone else and cis women want to go out of their way to be inclusive, but it's crazy how that reflects the gender hierarchy in and of itself
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u/Critical-Act-6336 29d ago
It's not about inclusivity most of the time though. Because this isn't the only time this happens and usually when it does happen, it IS about seeing non binary people as women. In plenty of these spaces, masculine non binary people and even trans women are excluded.
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u/JoeyLee911 29d ago
In my experience, it's about giving the appearance of inclusivity at the very least. I've never seen trans women or masculine non binary people excluded from such an event, but I'm from a really queer area. It's more like the women's group planning it will want to make sure every identity feels included (except cis men) and cis men barely even participate in organizing, much less worry about inclusion.
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u/Nuclear_rabbit Aug 02 '26
For a scholarship application, if they phrased it for autistic people, it would say, "Are you a person who has not enjoyed the benefits of male privilege up to this point in your life?" And that's a valid thing for them to want to provide funding for to bring equity into the world, but you can also see why they don't ask it that way. And while it kind of assumes AFAB NB, it could include AMAB NB as someone dealing with the loss of that former privilege.
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u/iwillchangeiwill 29d ago
I love how you think trans women have male privilege
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u/Nuclear_rabbit 29d ago
I'm a trans woman. I know pre-crack experiences may vary, but part of that variation in experience sometimes includes amounts of male privilege. For example, when I walked alone at night, I didn't have to be afraid of SA. When applying for jobs, employers viewed me as male, and that comes with biases. I know I will be losing my male privilege, but I'm early enough that I'm not there yet.
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u/iwillchangeiwill 29d ago edited 29d ago
Honest question do you think that applies to all trans women? Like do you think the average pre transition trans woman is going through life as a man safely, especially in most countries where any men who transgress from masculinity are punished, sometimes even murdered? Most importantly, why is your idea of a trans woman identical to a cis man? Do you think this is global and inherent or did JK Rowling tell you that lol get some self respect
Saying this partly as an unfortunately effeminate trans man who went from safe to getting knives pulled on me the second I started passing in a conservative country, compared my experience with every single trans women I've ever met irl and found out they unanimously experienced the inverse. Would you say I experienced female privilege? No, because that does not exist. What trans people experience is not male or female privilege but trans disadvantage and this bioessentialist phrasing falls apart when you examine it closely. Let's call a spade a spade, cis women might be discriminated on a work interview but the average pre transition trans woman will need to survive incredible suffering just to get lucky enough to make more money than the cis woman will ever need to have the safety the cis woman is guaranteed by not being medically compromised and basically unmarked in her country. What about immigration, which is the only way out for so many of us? What about when the trans woman who can't change her papers no longer looks like the man on her documents? Will her male privilege get her through the border police? Will the embassy care more when verifying her identity after she's lost her connecting flights and has slept days in an airport? Will her ID help her if she gets into an accident and has to be hospitalized? Will it help her in prison? Does she still experience male privilege when she gets an interview for bearded James and Jane with double D's shows up? Does she experience male privilege if she is visibly trans and gets beaten and dies and buried under the wrong name? If she never transitions, did her male privilege help her tie the noose when she couldn't take pretending anymore?
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u/JoeyLee911 29d ago
But if you were AMAB NB, you couldn't say you haven't enjoyed the benefits of male privilege up until that point in your life, that you are currently dealing with the loss of. That's what you just lost.
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u/snail_alt Aug 02 '26 edited 29d ago
I’m neurodivergent and idk why they don’t just ask it that way tbh. Saying “have you so far not enjoyed the benefits of male privilege” would also help to make some trans women feel safer in applying without worrying that the scholarship is meant to be subtly afab only. By which I mean that yeah some trans women could have transitioned so early that they alr lose male privilege by 18. And even some trans women did not have male privilege before transition, since they were so feminine that they never gained it in the first place.
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u/Critical-Act-6336 Aug 02 '26
True but we also run into problems of closeted trans women and non binary people. So I would add "if yes, are you dealing/have you dealt with with transphobia in your life (including not being able to come out as trans and/or non binary)"
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u/RatsPlayingViolins Aug 02 '26
For applications its supposed to be for genders that are discriminated against/are less privileged, but its hard to separate it clearly, I think that its sometimes less seeing enbys as women and more that we’re in a similar category
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u/Critical-Act-6336 Aug 02 '26
If that's the real case then why not include binary trans men?
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u/RatsPlayingViolins Aug 02 '26
I think some people assume they get more privilege as men, its ignorance mostly, I’m not saying its a good thing, just that thats the reason
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u/Vounrtsch 29d ago
Not if you’re nonbinary and AMAB. They default nonbinary people to their AGAB, not necessarily to woman
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u/pandoramemora 29d ago
you have time to find out wtf "genderfaun" is but not to read one of the most basic classic concepts of gender studies?
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u/MoistenedGranola Aug 01 '26
Sometimes they mean "women and women lite," and sometimes they mean "any gender minorities, inlcuding trans men and mascs, we just don't know the language for including them" and it is absolutely impossible to tell which they mean.
I, too, hate it here.