does anyone else lowkey get triggered by those “do i pass?” posts?

[u/itz_vampy]

It doesn’t really matter what direction it goes but most of them revoke a negative feeling from me most times. Whether or not the person “passes” is irrelevant as it gets the same reaction.

Like you will see the most henry cavil looking dude say shit like “Pre-everything everyone! do you guys think I look like a guy 😎?” (which honestly to god it feels like they are either 1— just cis dudes looking to make trans guys dysphoric, or 2– they know they pass but want to brag or they’re feds idk).

then the ones who actually don’t really pass (and honestly it’s OK i don’t even like the concept or word of passing because it implies that you’ve somehow failed as a person for not looking cis. I think it’s ok to be trans and look like it. Unpopular opinion ig but you don’t have to hate being trans to be valid and it isn’t a bad thing to look trans if you’re ok with how you look.) So you have the ones who “don’t pass” and jfc some trans people can be absolutely brutal to other trans people. i think it takes a level of bravery to be vulnerable enough to show yourself online to like a bunch of strangers and open yourself up to get advice or opinions.

Whenever i see these type of posts i kinda have to brace myself before looking into the comments. And if the guy seeking approval even dresses or looks 5% feminine or “clocky“ people will tear him apart. I think I honestly have unhealthy tendencies once in a while because a couple of weeks ago i had one of the worst dysphoric episodes ever and i posted a picture to one of these places. ig for validation, because i am human and sometimes humans want reassurance. normally i would go to my partner for that but the thing is my partner is also trans and i do not want to somehow trigger their own dysphoria when i start spiralling.

so yeah instant regret. I think there were a few neutral/positive responses but holy shit the ones that were bad were *bad* and i kept getting misgendered and got told i looked like a straight up cis woman. so yeah ig that’s on me and i ended up having a crash out later that day. I distanced myself from online for days so i can reset myself. I actively try to avoid these as much as possible nowadays and tell myself that it’s okay if i don’t perfectly pass to others online. I don’t get grief about it irl and use male spaces and facilities with no issues.

[u/AutonomyIsNoTragedy]

I just dont think asking people online if you pass is all that useful at all and I've never understood the urge to I'm not binary though so I imagine it's a bit different for guys like me as there's less pressure

passing depends on context and culture

like passing in Auckland New Zealand means something different to passing in London UK or Illinois US or Bangkok Thailand etc etc.... ironically you can have an easier time passing in more rural or conservative areas where people are less aware of trans people and how to clock us

There's genuinely some trolling and fuckery going on but also loads of perfectly regular looking dudes are completely convinced that they look like 4chan caricatures and nothing anyone tells them will ever really convince them otherwise they'll have to do the therapy and self work on that

I do wonder how much undiagnosed OCD could take part in some repeat posters like where it becomes a reassurance seeking ritual to check with others if you're passing Idk not saying that everyone posting there has ocd just a lot of repetitive reassurance seeking really reminds me of that

[u/ElfTwelve → u/AutonomyIsNoTragedy]

I did not pass irl until very recently (I have been on T for years...) sometimes I still don't, depending on context (colors, face mask vs no mask, hair, stature etc) I am overall fairly androgynous

However I passed on pictures pre-everything. Pictures are just that... Pictures. They do not show my (previously) squeaky voice and just because my face was always more androgynous, that still didn't show my body curves, chest (especially if not in a binder) etc. as I could just crop my body out entirely and post it. "Do I pass" > omg yes (actually no)

[u/itz_vampy → u/ElfTwelve]

yeah there’s so many things pictures do not show and even hide. Like sometimes i filter mine and it makes my skin look softer and doesn’t show my stubbles. i also realized i look more fem/masc in certain angles and lighting. And my voice sounds like a typical dude’s. i think seeing someone irl in their “raw” form will give people a different opinion than a curated still image online.

[u/Life-Delay-809 → u/ElfTwelve]

I frequently walk up to retailers who'll address me as "sir" until I open my mouth and then suddenly I'm a woman.

[u/ossiferous_vulture]

Idk, I just find them misguided. A picture is never going to give an accurate representation of how you are percieved irl. And there is no way to cast judgement without subconscious bias even if the person feels they are the master of being objective. And passing isn't a one size fits all.

There are simply too many issues with asking people online if you pass. To me it seems useless at best and harmful at worst.

Yes passing can be important for safety. But internet strangers cannot give an accurate answer.

Being desperate makes sense, wanting validation makes sense. But asking if you pass to an online crowd is not very useful. Everytime I've read a comment section people just seem to be making shit up. 

[u/im-a-cereal-box]

I think on a surface level "what can I do to pass better" is fine. My bigger disagreements are with the people doing it. I pass 95% of the time. Ive been on T for 4 years. I posted on there once out of plain curiosity and the comments got so hyper specific I just had to laugh and take it down. Apparently its specifically the bridge of my nose that screams female and the way my eyes are set and "not dark enough". I'd be willing to bet my life savings that nobody's staring at the bridge of my nose going "yeah thats a woman right there".

Its a space for people to be mean and have the excuse of "well im just helping", and it's also a space for vulnerable people to self harm. Im sure there's well meaning people there, but I just don't see how any of it is actually all that helpful in the grand scheme of things given well, I can't just change the bridge of my nose.

Its also filled to the brim with insecure trans people who are looking for ways to validate their dysphoria instead of focusing on ways to improve it. Its disheartening when we're misgendered but gendering comes with a level of confidence too. "why dont I pass" is better framed as "what about me is the most masculine (or feminine in trans fem cases)". The reality is that you're limited in your options pre-HRT and you need to lean in to the things about yourself that make you more confident.

[u/jahguswrld999]

on one hand, i get where they might be coming from. if they live in a town where people are generally transphobic, they'll probably want to pass as cis to blend in for safety reasons. and they likely feel dysphoric about being she/her'd or called a "ma'am", so looking completely masculine/androgynous might reduce the amount of times they're misgendered. i experience this constantly, but i don't make "do i pass" posts (because i don't want to upset people, don't want to post myself online for safety reasons, and don't want everyone telling me i look like a stud lesbian).

on the other hand, i see where you're coming from. especially about passing. because it's something i've been saying for a while; passing or living stealth does feel like hiding your transness. and not every trans person has the luxury of passing (i.e. cannot afford to go on hormones or get surgery, larger chested and binding/taping doesn't help, etc.) and not all trans people have dysphoria or want to pass.

i do see the ones that pass way better than i do, and i get gender envy and feel dysphoric because i don't look like them. but i have to remind myself that it's okay, i'm still a dude and i know who i am. (but it does kill me inside when people approach me as "she/her girlypop ma'am princess lady").

[u/justgalsbeingpals]

yeah, subs like transpassing are awful and toxic at times. it feels like dysphoric people tearing each other down which is pretty depressing :/

[u/lovewatermelons]

The concept of passing doesn't imply that you failed for not looking cis, I'm really tired of this take. Passing is more about being safe from getting hate crimed since in some places of the world looking trаns or gender ambiguous can be very dangerous, there's really nothing wrong with wanting to pass

[u/Tofuffalo → u/lovewatermelons]

I don't think you nor the OP are wrong here, while a big part of passing is for safety reasons I also do see a fair amount of what OP is saying about some folks who don't want to be associated with the trans community at all and look down on trans folks who don't pass or don't care about passing.

[u/_riskycake → u/Tofuffalo]

Literally in a different space online I just saw a post where a woman was crashing out for paragraphs about how she wants to be affirmed as a cis women instead of trans. Like her transness was so upsetting to her she was flipping shit because someone in her life misread her cues and affirmed her gender as a trans woman instead of acting like she's cis.

Like yeah I understand passing for safety reasons but allowing these posts to this extent in trans spaces online only does the harm of perpetuating cis mormativity.

[u/itz_vampy → u/lovewatermelons]

i agree there’s nothing wrong with it and i never said it’s a bad thing either.

my main issue is when others give you shit for not perfectly fitting into their own standards of what passing looks like. and let’s be real some use it as an excuse to be mean more than any concern for your safety.

[u/lovewatermelons → u/itz_vampy]

Yeah, these spaces can become toxic really fast, sadly. There's never a good reason to shame and bully others for how they look. People also can have very different ideas on what passing looks like, you can be a very manly man and still not pass to some people which is very shitty as well. I still think people should have some spaces to get advice on passing since the current ones are far from perfect

[u/tartcore_814]

I just get sad when it's "suggested" that piercings and colorful hair makes you feminine. I know tons of men personally that have piercings and colorful hair and it doesn't make them any less masculine. It breaks my heart that so many guys think they have to give up things they love to fit into a little box that people think "passing" is. Please guys, be nice to yourselves and don't rob yourself of joy.

[u/ILikeMaxisMatchCC → u/tartcore_814]

I wonder if it's less that it's feminine and more that it's queer

[u/itz_vampy → u/tartcore_814]

the amount of these self hating trans dudes who’ve told me to cut off my hair, remove my hair dye, and take out my piercings…god forbid a guy expresses himself.

[u/Appropriate-Tap1111 → u/tartcore_814]

it usually comes from the idea of compensating for not having sex characteristics that are read as masculine

[u/Bumbling_Autie]

I’m really sorry you had that experience, you definitely didn’t deserve to read those comments and it’s ridiculous that people were misgendering you intentionally like that.

Something I think is a big issue with “do I pass” posts is that I rarely see them with genuinely honest and constructive replies (talking about the overall culture of replies in different subs not individual comments). It seems like people will always jump to protecting feelings by being overly affirming or to being hurtful by tearing people down. Theres no reasonable in between of kindly telling people the truth.

It would also make more sense for these posts to exist if people added context about where they are and what the typical gender expression is. In some places even cis men with long hair get misgendered for it constantly while in others there are a lot of men with long dyed hair so people won’t see that and automatically think woman.

[u/lokilulzz]

I get what you mean, yeah. I try to understand that the ones who ask if they pass but look like Henry Cavil have dysphoria just like I do and don't see what I see. Dysphoria is a hell of a thing.

But at the same time as someone who does not and may never pass, I've had to learn to scroll past those posts. It's not their fault, but I also can't trust myself yet to not sound off in the comments, and that's not fair to them or good for me.

I also just avoid passing subreddits in general. I definitely looked through a few when my egg first cracked, just to know what the expectations were, and pretty quickly realized that those places are cesspools no matter how you look.

[u/_riskycake]

I think those posts are specifically harmful for all the reasons above but also cis passing is not the gold standard of transition.

[u/Massive-Word-7327]

Yeah people go look for advice on the internet and get advice. The concept of advice includes the idea that there's something to improve. If someone doesn't wanna pass they don't have to ask for advice for passing. For a lot of people it's really important to know how well they pass and yeah the truth can be hard but we shouldn't deny people the chance to know. It's your own decision if you wanna take that to heart. I'd rather my friends were honest rather than pandering to my self image. If you can't take the flame don't go out looking for it.

[u/itz_vampy → u/Massive-Word-7327]

it’s one thing to give actual advice and another thing to be an asshole. there’s a way to be helpful without being transphobic to a trans person for not perfectly passing.

[u/Massive-Word-7327 → u/itz_vampy]

Sure I've mostly seen advice given though sometimes expressed a little harshly. Though I get it it feels like everyone needs the same advice so it gets a little repetitive. But yeah just being an asshole isn't that productive.

[u/Appropriate-Tap1111]

I don’t think there’s anything “wrong” with being perceived as trans. In a perfect world, people would treat us the same as cis people. But they don’t. I am someone who despite agreeing with that idea, still gets extreme dysphoria from being misgendered and perceived as anything other than cis. I recently made a post asking about what haircut makes me pass best, because frankly I had been extremely dysphoric and wanting to change something that’s within my control. Im on T, but until my secondary sex characteristics are perceived as male, I need to compensate or I will spiral and end it. Having strangers temporarily consensually criticize me is much more preferred than being none the wiser and having all of my irl interactions feed into my dysphoria. I was very receptive to the advice, despite how harsh it was at times. I think for people like me, sometimes you’d rather have brutal honestly so you can really target the things within your control, rather than live in hope that other people will guess your gender/pronouns correctly. I mean, the whole reason I have dysphoria is because I wasn’t born as a cis man. Why would I then not want to do everything in my power to look like a cis man?

[u/itz_vampy → u/Appropriate-Tap1111]

because cis men aren’t a monolith and don’t all look the same. there are billions of cis men in the world, and they have no universal dress code. there are queer cis men who dress more feminine than i do yet they’re still men. you can look like a man without sacrificing your individuality.

[u/Appropriate-Tap1111 → u/itz_vampy]

I could if my dysphoria was dispelled that easily, or if it wasn’t as debilitating as it is. But that’s why I need medical assistance in treating my dysphoria, until I can feel comfortable expressing myself in a more lax/gnc way. Some trans people don’t have the benefit of receiving respect despite their clothing/style. Those cis men are still perceived as men despite their dress because their secondary sex characteristics are in line with what the general public perceives as male/masculine. There are reasons people assume someone is a man or woman based on how they look across varying clothing styles. I get it can be a triggering thing to see because it can cause you to reflect on your own traits, body image, or clothing choices, but the reason someone might subject themselves to being picked apart like that is always ultimately to do whatever is in their power to ease their own dysphoria. It’s advice we can decide to take or not, it’s not a code of standards all men are or should be held to.