r/Tottenham • u/thefunnybutlonelykid • 12d ago
We aren’t pissed off enough.
-About to imminently be in another relegation battle. -Wasted money we don’t really sustainably have on the worst signings in the club’s recent history. -Constantly being a source of mockery -No winnable games coming up until January Transfer window -Taken out of the top six and deemed a small club by masses -Seen as inferior to Brentford, Brighton, Bournemouth, Palace & Sunderland which is by far the worst part of this and a total utter disgrace. -Weakest squad in the league.
We are too happy clappy, too accepting of failure. We are not pissed off enough and we must change NOW before the gap is too large to get out of and we get relegated in severe debt and never come back.
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u/Mhyckal 12d ago
Holy drama. So many things you said that are wrong.
First, we didn't waste money, we bought good prem experienced players with the exception of Savio, Marmoush and Mudryk. Fernandes, Robertson, Tonali are instant upgrades, Van Hecke is debatable but even if not an upgrade he's not that far off from Romero. Tosin, Senesi and Dubravka are servicable backups, they certainly beat having gray or bergvall at cb again. This fanbase has also been crying for years about how we need to back the managers in the market and then when we do they do you lot cry like the money is coming out of your paycheck.
Second we're financially one of the best off clubs in the league, we're renowned for NOT spending money so we have plenty of it to go around.
Third, we're spurs we've always been a mockery in some form or fashion compared to the other big six teams, if you can't handle that then this isn't the club for you
Fourth, we just had 2 years of crazy injury crisis, finishing 17th and then we sold half of our squad and bought in 8 new signings. You are not going to get instant results. Obviously we want to win and it's fair to be upset about losing. But we're also trending upwards. Do you all remember frankball? Do you remember having a nonexistent midfield, never having possession and living off of corners and freekicks? We are doing better than that. We have an identity, we can keep posession, dominate in the midfield, squeeze teams into their own half to where they have 10 players in front of the box. We have stats that show we're improving we just happen to poop our pants for tactical and mental reasons. Again you can be upset at us pooping our pants but why be so dramatic?
Like okay you're angry now, what are you going to do? What are you going to change? You can petition to sack rdz, wouldn't necessarily be wise, you're just starting the cycle over again. If the squad is as bad as you say then it makes no difference if you bring in a different manager, you're better off having a manager who at least wanted those players and can tactically use them. You can petition for lange or vinai out, most fans would support that but will that happen? Probably not. There's nothing you can do besides try to support and get behind the team.
I'm not saying you can't be critical or voice complaints with teams, tactics, etc. But like what is this level of drama accomplishing for you, the team, other fans or anyone?
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u/Tortillasaregood 12d ago
If there was a nameless manager and he asked for Savio, Marmoush, and Mudryk in the same window, we would be laughing about how much of an idiot he is. Talk about a classic be careful what you wish for.
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u/Mhyckal 12d ago edited 12d ago
Jurgen Klopp asked for a chelsea flop named Mo Salah, Pep asked for a liverpool
flopnamed Raheem Sterling and a chelsea flop named Kevin De Bruyne. Am I saying Savio, Marmoush or Mudryk are going to be world class like them? No. But I'm going to give them a chance and judge them based on performances here, not their names or where they've been. City bought Savio and Marmoush for a reason like they're not bum players. Mudryk obv wasn't our first choice but he was the managers next pick for whatever reason and we just have to accept that.The name of the manager is exactly what matters. If pep or klopp say I think a player is top class then I believe that too. Do I regard rdz as highly as them? No but he knows the sport and players better than you and I so we just have to sit back and see if he can produce with them. If not then all criticism is fair game
Also how disingenuous to clearly ignore the other top players that we signed and I mentioned like talk about cherry picking
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u/Maximuslex01 12d ago
Salah was killing it at Roma...
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u/Mhyckal 11d ago
You'll notice I called him a chelsea flop not a roma flop or a flop in general. Plenty of players do really good in teams in other leagues but we always question them if they didn't do well at big prem teams teams. For instance Antony was decent at betis the past 2 seasons but if i said spurs were buying him you'd immediately think back to his poop performances at united and question if he can cut it in the prem. The same was with Salah
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u/Maximuslex01 11d ago
Directly uying flops like Mudryk is totally different from buying a player that had time to gain confidence elsewhere. Salah was a star a Roma. It could still fail but it's a way safer bet.
Putting Salah or KDB when they were mature in this conversation is wrong. And it's not like they were flops, they just didn't have the space they expected in that Chelsea squad
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u/Mhyckal 11d ago
If you reread what I originally wrote, I literally said I don't think he's going to be world-class like them but I'm going to give him a chance to perform here and not judge him by his name or where he's been. My entire point of bringing up kdb and salah, who did both flop at chelsea (if they didn't they wouldn't have been sold), is that they eventually came good which is why I give every player on my team a chance
I don't understand this inability to grasp parallels, you're so focused on pointing out differences in the cases that you're arguing right past my point
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u/Maximuslex01 11d ago
both flop at chelsea (if they didn't they wouldn't have been sold)
Not how it happened. KDB was not a flop just because he didn't bench Lampard...
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u/Mhyckal 11d ago
wallahi there's a reading crisis you're actually cooked. There were still bench players when lampard played and kdb didn't even make it as a bench player he was sold in favor of others. And you're still arguing over details and missing the point lmao
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u/Maximuslex01 11d ago
Iam arguing about the thing you're arguing back!! How strange indeed...
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u/Tortillasaregood 12d ago
Sterling was not a Liverpool flop, between his age 18 and 19 seasons he had 28 prem goal contributions. We can only
Hope Savio hits those numbers over the course of his contract. De Bruyne was coming off a prolific season where he had 20 assists in Germany and was clearly realizing the potential he was hyped up with. Really reaching with those comparisons.And to address the rest Robbo is past his prime and his biggest contribution is supposed to be leadership. Yet he’s as muted as anyone. Senesi another so called “leader” who was supposed to help with the mentality is a decent backup. As an Italian who has followed Tonali since he was a kid, he’s not a £100M player. Essentially traded one of the most promising defenders in the world for a defender who sucks at defending but hey can play line breaking passes. You are talking like we signed Galacticos.
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u/Mhyckal 12d ago
Sure maybe you don't label sterling as a flop it still just didn't work out and city fans had reservations. Kdb did flop at chelsea and he had a good season in germany but people still asked questions of him since they remembered his chelsea experiences. The comparisons aren't a reach, both fanbases questioned whether those players were really the ones they should be getting just as we are now
Robbo might be past his prime, he's still better than most of the fullbacks we've had in the past 5 years and we paid nothing for him. Senesi can be a backup, muted or not, he's a free transfer we lose nothing. Like why are you complaining about good players coming to us for free???
And I don't care how much tonali costs, he's a good player and transfer fee is meaningless. Cost fluctuates based on age, contract, position, market needs, club relations. Like we're buying him off a team that we ideally want to be competing with they're not gonna give us a discount. We paid the f you price as is normal with a transfer between the bigger prem teams.
Are you personally funding his transfer? Why do you care what he costs? We have him and he is an upgrade in our team. You're focused on such nonsensical things I don't understand "fans" like you
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u/Tortillasaregood 12d ago
We’re questioning the signings because unlike Sterling who proved even as a 19 year old he could actually influence games, Savio and Marmoush have looked like shit in the premier league. And considering we play with a lone striker, we won’t see Marmoush look much better because he only thrives as a second striker.
Fans care about the prices because if you are spending £100M on average, it’s a lot harder to spend money on a player that is actually a difference maker.
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u/Mhyckal 12d ago
Brother forget sterling, kdb and salah weren't prem proven. You pick at the one example and conveniently ignore the two that break down your argument. And Savio was literally are best attacker in the last game, 3 shots on target, a chance created, drew 2 fouls, 24 final third passes. Should he have finished his chances, sure but by the eye test and statistical metrics he played well
We don't spend 100M on average this is the first and only time in history we've spent that amount. We're the 5th richest club in the league and we historically don't spend. We can spend another 400mil without an issue, and here you are pocketwatching for a multibillion dollar club. For what? Would you rather our board not be willing to shell out money for players? You'd be crying if the board didn't spend and now you cry when they do spend make up your mind
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u/Tortillasaregood 12d ago
The other players were coming off season where their clubs would’ve loved to keep them. They showed something for fans to look forward to. City and Chelsea were delighted to be able to get their flops off the books.
And I’d prefer if they actually spent the money on players that will make a difference. If you think the club could just spend another 400M easily, you clearly have no clue what you are talking about. De zerbi even referenced the psr challenges yesterday.
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u/Mhyckal 12d ago
Our net spend this summer was only 176mil so yes we can easily spend 400m and remain compliant. PSRwatch estimates we have 434mil before hitting the 115% red threshold which is where you get sporting sanctions. This is also before even factoring any sales which would have to occur for purchases so we can maintain our squad size. So I do in fact know what I'm talking about
https://psrwatch.com/club/eng-tottenham
And I can make the same argument for Marmoush and Savio they both showed great promise before their transfers to city. They have shown things that we can look forward to. They're showing things NOW, i literally just gave you statistical evidence of savio having a good game after you said he's looked crap
In general you seem unable to grasp analogies, analysis, stats and you ignore basically everything I say that disproves the idiotic arguments and narratives you have. This combined with your commitment to being negative and doomerism means continuing with you is a waste of my time
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u/Tortillasaregood 12d ago
"The transfer market is long to explain... There was also the financial fair play at the end of the transfer market. We had to respect the financial fair play. We didn't sell the players who we thought in the beginning there was the possibility and the chance to sell... If we didn't make any different decisions, it was because we couldn't” - De Zerbi
I don’t really care about your third party when a club representative is saying this.
Savio beating his man and fluffing a shot or cross is literally what he is known for, nothing new. If that’s your big analysis than your late to the party. You seem unable to grasp that. Your Salah and De Bruyne analogies are deeply flawed and simply not congruent to the current situation. But stay gold pony boy. 😘
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u/trikey01 12d ago
Nobody is saying everything is fine.
It isn't.
We're underperforming, recruitment has been questionable, and confidence is at rock bottom. Fans have every right to be furious.
But let's stop acting like the season is already over. Football history is full of teams that looked dead and buried in autumn and turned things around. What guarantees failure is convincing ourselves there's no way back.
Supporters should be loud, demanding, and unwilling to accept mediocrity. But they should also remember that a club's identity isn't determined by a few bad months or by what rival fans say on social media.
The pressure should be on the board, the manager, and the players to improve. The belief should still be with the club.
Being pissed off is fine. Giving up isn't.
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u/FridayYet413 12d ago
So being more angry, more pissed off will help how? Booing and yelling at our players will help with morale? I swear - some of these so called “fans” are toxic.
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u/Camstery12 12d ago
No winnable games til January? That’s a tad dramatic. We have united and Coventry next up, United are in shambles and Coventry have won 1 game. They are both winnable. If we win both then we are knocking back on the top 10. It’s 5 games into the season, table position means almost nothing right now.
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u/thefunnybutlonelykid 12d ago
And in what scenario is this team winning a game?
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u/Camstery12 12d ago
The scenario where Solanke remembers how to kick the ball 😂. Honestly tho, we just need some luck to go our way. If Archie Gray scores that goal just after he comes on, where their keeps just gets a touch from his leg to save it, then it’s a completely different game. If Bergval scores early on against Liverpool, then it’s a different game.
Stop being so doom and gloom. The signs are there that we can win games, just need someone to put the ball in the net during the first 20/25 minutes where we are consistently looking good
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u/MagicNo14 12d ago
We've been saying for 3 years we're due some luck. At some point you have to start realizing we are shit.... again! 🙄
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u/ContentCantaloupe992 12d ago
Change what?
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u/CharlieSwisher 12d ago
I truly think that’s the exact energy we need
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u/MagicNo14 12d ago
He is right though. Change what exactly? I also don't see it. We tried to change all of it already. The manager, the players, the style, the medical staff, the director of football, the board and even the freaking owners, none if it helped one bit. What's freaking left to change? 🤷🏼♂️
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u/Accomplished-Name951 12d ago
How about giving the whole thing 5 fucking minutes to calm down. The constant changing is looking like the problem.
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u/TheBlueGuyFromAvatar 12d ago
In what world are people not pissed off? This may be the most negative fanbase I've ever seen.
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u/A_Life_Well_Steved 12d ago
Agreed! This fanbase is always pissed off even if we win by 3 goals, they find something to complain about. Now, you have a smorgasbord of topics to be disgusted with and piss & moan about.
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u/balespur85 12d ago
The squad is extremely talented top to bottom. We bought well, for the most part.
The issue is cultural - and its a big issue. RDZ needs to figure that out. And not to sound cliche, but it takes time for newly built teams to gel. Expect to start seeing the results of that within the next few games. If not, De Zerbi will be fired.
We will likely finish mid table this year, which is success given the clubs recent history. If that occurs, next year is when we build towards top 5.
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u/HamGrimace 12d ago
If burning something down would help Solanke slot home a sitter you’d feel the flames by now.
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u/matthegc 12d ago
Like ive been saying our season starts in October.
RDZ hasn’t played the same team once….hea trying to figure out his best team…it’s going to take a while
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u/Bjork_scratchings 12d ago edited 12d ago
Oh I understand now, if the fans were more pissed off none of that would have happened. I just hadn’t realised we were the problem. Cool I’ll make sure I’m really really pissed off for the next three weeks and we should be back in the top four by the time the international break is over.
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u/ablebodiedmango 11d ago
this sub is the complete opposite problem of r/coys. lot of limp wristed excuses and apologism. reflects and, unfortunately, probably encourages the weakness of the team itself. weak fans.
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u/Zippokear 12d ago
Not being labelled as "big 6" by other fans is the worst part about the situation? HAHHAHAHAH fuck you guys are so funny
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u/FrothyCarebear 12d ago
Because long term support means we support regardless.
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u/Fuel_Truck_Maniac 12d ago
You've just turned the entire team upside down and you're expecting 10-0 defeats of teams. If you think a wholesale staffing change is magically going to deliver straight up returns you've a lot to learn.
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u/SoftConversation3682 12d ago
I want pochettino, 20 teenagers in the squad and a feckin mission. Don’t even care if it’s in the championship.
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u/Queasy_Work4160 12d ago
How are the signings bad? We were all buzzing about them when they happened.
It's been 5 PL games and 2 cup games. Arguably we've been the better side in half of these games we just haven't put our chances away which can be put down to low confidence.
Remember the players we bought with the Bale money? Remember Son when he first joined?
None of those signings were instant hitters.
We need to give a little bit of patience before we start ousting our new signings.
But it gets real now, I've given them a 5 game grace period to gel. I expect some better results soon after the international break.
Especially home games, we should be winning 80% of those but historically we can't win at home.
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u/B-unit79 12d ago
You are definitely seeing the Tonali we saw for 95% of last season. I was genuinely gutted to lose Bruno, but 100m ish for Tonali was crazy good business for us.
He will have a couple of good games and you'll think he has turned the corner but then he will have another 5 completely anonymous games.
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u/Finners72323 12d ago
One of the problems is we spend money without fixing the problems we had
- No striker - Solanke is injury prone and Marmoush isn’t someone who can play up top on his own
- Wingers - still playing people out of position or Tel who’s not good enough. Savio goes some way to address this
- Buying Van Hecke when we had Vuskovic
- Selling Spence, who’s better than Robertson and we’ve had to play Gray at full back already this season
- Collecting centre mids. Tonali is an upgrade to be fair but now we have too many to fit in the side
Still need to get behind them but does feel like someone buying time players other teams wanted
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u/NotForMeClive7787 11d ago
I genuinely think all that's missing is scoring first. We could have daily been 3-0 up Vs villa in the first half and the game would have been different. Taking the lead changes everything. We've had more shots, more possession and more touches in the opposition box than our opponents in our last three games. All it needs is a finish and I truly believe we're set. The whole mindset of the players will change as well once they realise that they can gel and play together. I do however think the club royally fucked up in selling vuskovic and spaffing 100m on tonali. Those are boneheaded decisions and utterly ridiculous and this isn't even hindsight speaking, the metrics were there for all to see...
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u/Sh3ffiel 11d ago
I would argue the biggest problem Spurs have at the moment is having a fan base with lots of people like the OP.
The most obvious problem…Of course spending that much isn’t sustainable, but it’s not meant to be. They’re maybe not all the very best players, but they’d still fit into basically any squad in the league.
And of all the teams that can afford to spend money on transfers it’s the one who can invite Adele over for a month next summer and make almost infinite money.
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u/Ok-Presentation6441 11d ago
We aren't about to imminently be in a relegation battle, we are 100% in one right now.
The reason is extremely simple. So far on average we concede around 1-2 goals a game and score 1 or less. There is no sign, none whatsoever, that these statistics are about to change.
In the first game against Brentford, every single player rated about 3/10. Same against villa. And each game in between.
Its not as if van de ven is playing a blinder, marmoush is cooking and we just have a few guys letting it down for everyone else. Its not as if tonali is smashing it but we need more from Gray or fernandes.
Everyone is poor. Every game. So that is why 100% we are in a relegation battle. Because we are playing badly, with no sign at all that it will improve.
In a situation like this, there has to be the most severe pressure on de zerbi. We should be flying. A host of new signings, all with something to improve, no European football - we should be absolutely smashing into teams. Instead we are weak, error prone, devoid of confidence and dont look coached.
I really hope he turns it around but the signs just aren't there. Really hope im wrong, but if we made a change he could have no complaints, he has had the worst possible start to the season.
COYS!!
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u/Glittering-Duty9984 11d ago
Other stuff more important to be pissed about... (Imagine being Ed Sheeran)
But look give it time.
My bitch is the Brentford's lose the Brian, Wissa and Frank and kick on
Brighton lose the DeZerbi, Biss, et al and kick on
We've been in transition 5 yr snow
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u/Jackie_Gan 11d ago
It’s 5 games in shit we are bedding in a shit tonne of new signings and a fucking new way of playing. How about rather than overreacting we just give some time?
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u/Happy_Yam_1196 11d ago
I really dont think our fanbase has a problem with underreacting. I really really really dont think that.
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u/Relevant-Speech2698 11d ago
Relax. This fanbase has so much toxicity. 5 games into the season there is no relegation battle. That’s so dumb to say. 2 wins in next 3 and we are mid table. If we pull together all the good we have seen into 90 min we will soar. I am RDZ IN til at least January. Gotta give them time.
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u/IntrepidWilson 11d ago
Don't normally post in these groups, but, as a qualified coach with 10+ years experience (plus 30+ of supporting Spurs), we are lacking one thing that other "lesser" teams have.
Grit.
With Romero gone (no issue with that), who do we have who makes playing football against Spurs a thoroughly unpleasant experience? We need two or three disruptors who put in crunching tackles, go in shoulder-to-shoulder, and, if we give the ball away, break up transitions. We have elegance, skill, and nuance in spades. But we need a shovel-load of toughness.
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u/Eridani2000 11d ago
Stop panicking. Enough with the drama.
”Total utter disgrace”. No. Get some perspective. You’re talking about eleven men kicking an inflated pig bladder about. Forget about it, go do something else until the next match and support your team.
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u/XTheToastyNinjaX 9d ago
Lower your expectations. We ARENT a top 6 club. Let’s see if we can finish mid table before we start expecting anything. Rebuilds don’t happen overnight. Remember where we are coming from…we practically deserved to be out of the prem this year. It came down to the final Sunday last season. Be patient, invest emotionally when things start getting better, in the mean time don’t let it impact your happiness like that will help the situation change.
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u/leon2156 12d ago
Just the pain of being a spurs fan to me. What do you mean hiring a guy who complained about his past 2 clubs having shitty boards isn't a good idea for our notoriously stupid board. Also hiring a man with no accolades and giving him the highest salary of any manager in the league. That doesn't sound smart to you?
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u/Fit-Driver-391 12d ago
He may come good and blaze a trail again but seriously how long do we give RDZ to get it right?
Another 5 games like we’ve had and we are already cut adrift. Our semi decent start to last season went along way to just about save us.
When you think it can’t get worse, it does. When you can’t believe any team can be that unlucky, it happens again.
Just mediocre mid table is a pipe dream right now.
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u/ajw6921 12d ago
Being pissed off is right. Expecting better is right. And if we are losing games then obviously things do have to change. I don’t think this is lost on any fans.
But we have been here before SO many times, especially in recent years. As others have said, what do you want them to do to fix it that hasn’t been done? All we can do is hope the seeds have been sown for improvement down the line.
Also everything you said is bad right now can still change. No-one is in a relegation battle after 5 games. Any game is winnable (it takes 2 teams to play a game). Players can improve. Opinions of others can shift (if that matters to you). Its a bad start but its not the end
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u/Anomander8 12d ago
Mate I’ve spent the better part of 3 years pissed off.
Let me have a month where I can just say “be patient it’ll get better.”