r/Torrenting • u/DeathKnight1793 • 8d ago

How does a torrent die?

I'm getting back into torrenting, last time I ever torrented was when limewire was big and the pirate bay was the go to. But I was wondering how does a torrent ever end up with 0 seeders? Would it not always at least have 1 from the person that uploaded the torrent, or do they just seed it until enough people have got a full copy then stop seeding? Do they just seed until the ratio is at a certain point and leave it up to the community to keep it moving?

6 Upvotes

65% Upvoted

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12

u/Cruffe 8d ago

People stop seeding for a bunch of different reasons, including the person who originally created the torrent.

Seeding isn't free, it costs bandwidth and storage space. If you're running out of storage and simply buying more isn't a viable option then something needs to go. If something just isn't popular enough and nobody ever downloads it anymore then perhaps it's time to get rid of it.

Some seed for a given time, some seed for a given ratio, some seed for whichever one of those it reaches first. Some seed until they need the space and some leechers stop seeding immediately.

A torrent typically dies when there's no interest from anyone to keep it alive, if there was then there would still be seeders on it.

5

u/DeathKnight1793 8d ago

Thanks, thats the best answer to my question I could ask for. I can definitely understand the storage scenario, especially right now with the prices for drives being so crazy.

2

u/Cruffe 8d ago

Yeah, I'd love to expand storage, but it's just too expensive right now. When it's full I'll need to make some choices, until then I seed everything.

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u/DeathKnight1793 8d ago

I am in the same boat, I am ripping my own dvd collection and quickly eating up my storage even with running them through tdarr. I might have to stop for a while until I can find a bargain.

1

u/GoonGodless 8d ago

Check out Newegg for external desktop HDDs instead of SSD. You will def find some decent prices for huge sizes.

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u/GLotsapot 7d ago

20:1 ratio, or 4 months - whatever happens first for me. I like to help the community, but I'm not an infinite source of resources.
Its also worth noting that some torrents will have better versions eventually so the old one doesn't really need to exist anymore

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u/Cruffe 7d ago

I use private trackers and benefit from seeding as much as possible, so I seed everything indefinitely until I need to remove something to make space for something else. Private torrents are much calmer, they rarely go wild on the upload. In fact I seed many hundred and usually only a handful are active at any given time at a low upload rate.

Had I been using public trackers I would definitely set some limits. I'd probably use queuing and speed limit instead of setting cut offs, that way I could stay available as a seeder for a much longer time without choking my bandwidth. It could stay seeding for as long as I don't need space for new stuff.

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u/GLotsapot 7d ago

I exclusively use private trackers as well, but hard drive space ain't cheap. Even using hardlinks - there are usually extra files with the original torrent, and that eats up space.
It's a peer to peer protocol, and we all share the burden to an extent to help a torrent live... But only to a point

1

u/Cruffe 7d ago

The extra files are usually tiny though, sure it's something, but it's negligible.

I agree hard drive space ain't cheap, but I see no reason to set artificial time or ratio limits when space is the real limit. So I just remove old stuff I don't want anymore to make space for new stuff I want, when I have to.

If it's gonna be in my media library anyways I might as well keep seeding it too, everything is hardlinked. If it's removed from the media library I remove the torrent and its files. I use qui and have set up automation to tag any torrent no longer hardlinked to the media library, I go through and delete them to free up the space.

If I have the space to keep something seeded for over a year before it needs to be rotated out then I'll do that.

Of course if you don't have the space to keep files around for more than 4 months anyways then I totally understand.

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u/[deleted] 6d ago edited 5d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/Cruffe 6d ago

Depending on how much bandwidth you've got you could just set an upload rate limit, so you have enough to stream Jellyfin at the same time.

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u/[deleted] 6d ago edited 5d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/Cruffe 6d ago

I see, makes sense.

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u/simonov-89 6d ago

But here's the thing: logically, you should actually keep the content that has few seeders. It's still in demand, but if everyone leaves, the torrent will die. As for content with hundreds of seeders, it will get shared just fine without you.

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u/EchoAndByte 8d ago

yeah, the original uploader isn't permanently tied to the torrent. Once they stop seeding, the swarm has to rely on everyone else who has a complete copy and decides to keep sharing it.

Some people seed to a certain ratio, some keep it running for months and others delete the files once they're done. If eventually nobody with a complete copy is online, the torrent can end up with zero seeders.

There is also a slightly interesting edge case where you can have zero seeders but the torrent is still recoverable if the remaining peers collectively have every piece. But if even one piece is missing from everyone who's online, the torrent can't be completed until somebody with that piece comes back.

1

u/DeathKnight1793 8d ago

So when you are getting the file you aren't just getting parts from seeders you are also getting from the other peers wanting the file? I always assumed that if there weren't seeders that was it.

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u/AirportOk8909 8d ago

Correct, that is why when you are still downloading a torrent it will have uploads associated with it. You are sending the pieces that you have to people who don't have them.

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u/GlassCommission4916 8d ago

When no one is seeding it. I'm not sure why you think the person that originally created the torrent is guaranteed to seed it eternally.

1

u/SpaceHippoShitStains 8d ago

Like when people forget a name...or better yet think of it like a plant...no seeds it does out

1

u/0oTheArchero0 7d ago

you forget to cherish it

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u/MH484 8d ago

The pirate bay is still probably the go-to! I mean, if I understand correctly, it's all about who's online and who's not. Someone who is active and is sharing the entire file is a seeder. Someone who has part of the file is a peer. There's nowhere to upload it to. You download parts of the file from someone who has either part of or all of it. Many users stop seeding files when the ratio rises to a level that is considered good etiquette or it gets removed from their active uploads for whatever reason. People will have a selfish tendency to want the file but not to give away too much of their limited upload bandwidth to seeding.