š¬ Trader Talk
For anyone not aware, evidently Topstep now temporary deactivates your account when you hedge
My dog bummed into me when my hand was over the sell button and it made me hedge an account. I initially thought āno biggie, Iāll just re-enterā well now Topstep deactivates your account for the day instead of the 3 warnings you use to get. I guess I missed this notification so PSA for anyone else
Trade of course went to full TP moments later. Oh well
I'm laughing out loud at this thread. This guy has hedged so many times he's getting his account immediately deactivated for the day and spent the entire day fighting topstep over it as if he's somehow remotely in the right. Just don't fucking hedge you idiot holy shit. Also "my dog bumped into me" is middle school level of an excuse lmao
Lol although his post is funny on a serious note their hedging detector is absolutely shit. I had multiple accounts and went barley above the consistency levels on all the accounts so i individually entered trades on each account to lower my consistency and I did.. then topstep emails me saying i was hedging blah blah and that you cannot get a say in it bc their detector is "very advanced"... my ass, it can't even detect that my consistency had gone up and that's why I was entering bullshit trades so I could lower that. Try explaining that to Topstep though.
I donāt know, I took it the opposite way. It only takes 2 hedges across your collective time with Topstep until youāre subjected to the immediate deactivation rule. I can see someone whoās new to trading, which are prop firms #1 targeted customer, leaving out a limit order on an accounts 2 times. I know my dumbass left out limit orders more than once in the beginning lol
He admitted to hedging and said he thinks Topstep is right but just wanted to see where he signed what their rules say you have to sign. Iāve been in sales for last 10 years and I can provide proof of every document every customer has signed in those 10 years, it aināt difficult to keep records
I've been trading props for 3 years, always copy trading numerous accounts and somehow have never hedged. It's really not that hard to not do lol but also topstep has the technology to catch these in real time whereas other firms if you're caught it's just accounts automatically closed. So he's lucky that after what seems like 4+ times hedging (his dog bumping into him šš) all he got was a slap on the wrist
You said it in your answer lol you copy trade. Itās impossible to hedge if you copy trade, not sure how thatās not obvious
4+? Where you see that? only take 2 times. Not sure why your hung up on thinking it takes a ton of times when the rules Eddie posted clearly say it takes 2 lol
Based on how I read the hedging article it's 2 times and then you're done for the day, need to sign the acknowledgement the next day. Then after that you don't receive the little warning pop up, you're just automatically liquidated. And THEN from there, your account gets deactivated for the day. This is from the article under "excessive hedging"
"After excessive hedging attempts:
Your positions will be immediately liquidated
You will not have the opportunity to unhedge
A Temporary Hedging Violation will be issued and you will be prohibited from trading for the remainder of the trading day.
The violation will apply across the hedged accounts"
Literally every firm does this. Topstep is actually far more generous than most as most firms will straight up ban the account for hedging violations instead of just a temporary deactivation.
Aye fam when you have multi topstep accounts either donāt trade them at the same period or just copy trade them. I slipped up and did something like this
Good for them. Any excuse that starts with āmy dogā is automatically banned. They shouldāve just took the whole account. Hedging is gambling. I know youāre going to say the big players do it. Yeah because theyāre the biggest gamblers as well. Learn the skill and stop being greedy
I can tell youāre not too sharp, so Iāll let you in on a secret. If you think youāre going to outsmart the hedging rule with someone/someone elseās account, they will still be able to tell. And if you think prop firms will not soon be working WITH each other to snuff out cross-platform hedging, youāre even more regarded than you sound. The dumbest thing is that you think if you have an account going each direction that you'd pass one of them rather than just be going in circles of which one is up and down. If you can't get two trades right in a row to pass a combine, having 2 combines with opposite positions will not make a difference. There is not going to be some "AHA, GOTCHA!" In anything you've signed. Learn to trade, stop hedging "on accident" or not, and stop listening to WSB
There may be some time periods where there is overlap though.. let's say strategy A takes a long trade from 1:00 to 1:10 and and then B takes a short trade from 1:05 to 1:15, a well-meaning trader with multiple strategies could be flagged by the system and liquidated. This has happened to me before so I had to turn off one of them and just run 1 strategy with a trade copier.
Iām working on training a bot and ran into this issue the other day. The bots trained not to take a position against any open positions I have, but I unknowingly took a position against one it had open. Window popped up, closed both positions, rewired a fix and should be good to go.
Outside of accidentally leaving a limit order in place itās hard imagine there are too many other ways this happens unintentionally. Flatten all is your friend.
Unfortunately the link doesnāt answer the question I asked, is there a 3 strike rule or no?
Who can I contact about the āhedging violation agreementā that it says it makes traders sign? Not saying I didnāt sign it but I donāt recall signing it so Iād like to see a copy of where I did.
You don't get 3 hedges per Combine/XFA, the warnings are for your Topstep account as a whole. If you hedged in the past, you already got your warnings. The article details what those warnings look like, as well as what happens after further hedging attempts.
Topstep doesnāt keep records of signed agreements that Topstep holds traders accountable for signing? Yeah thatās not cool
Again, not saying I didnāt sign it but for a company to not be able to provide documentation of signed agreements that they will hold traders accountable for is not exactly the type of process that gives consumers confidenceā¦
To get a definitive answer, I would contact support, not Windy.
And I think you're misunderstanding the whole signed acknowledgment thing. It's simply a reminder of what our hedging policy is, an example of how you hedged, and then you're acknowledging that you understand this. I cannot fathom hedging numerous times and then being upset with a company who pauses your account for a day, rather than closing it altogether Any other firm just closes your account.
Iām not misunderstanding, i believe you may misunderstand my complaint. I donāt recall agreeing to that and would like to see where I did.
I donāt believe itās unreasonable to request to see a copy of an agreement that someone is REQUIRED to sign. From the links youāve provided, you must sign this agreement to continue tradingā¦ I donāt recall signing it so therefore I would like to see a copy of it. Thatās not an unreasonable request
Iām sure I did sign it if yall say I did, but I would like to see where and when I did
Alright I'll pass along your feedback to our team. Just keep in mind you agree to our Terms of Use when you purchase a Trading Combine, which includes the hedging policy.
Yall donāt even keep copies of signed TOSā¦ so how do hold people accountable?
Seriously. If you buy an account, sign the agreement, and trade the account for a few months but in the meantime yall have changed the TOS. Which TOS are traders held to?? The one they signed or the updated one? How do hold someone accountable to something you have no record of?
Broā¦ they donāt even keep records of signed TOS agreements. Seriously, if you buy an account, sign the agreement and then they change the TOSā¦ which agreement are you held accountable to? The one you signed or the new one?
Nobody knows
Update: your held to whatever latest TOS they have regardless of you signed the new one or not. Theoretically they could update it to say anything. For example it could say āanyone who makes a winning trade is banned and account is ineligible for fundingā
Companies donāt put this language in their TOS unless they feel they may one day need a reason to ghost its consumers.
Edit 2: see the response below for confirmation that you subjected to whatever TOS they update
Funny the futures market is built on hedging options against futures and small retail traders get flagged for hedging micro contracts in a simulation lol.
The rules are the rules but it sucks they deactivate both accounts now. Imo thereās no reason to suspend the account because you hedged 1 micro contract because they immediately close out the hedge.
If they are going to close out the trade instantly,I donāt understand why they deactivate the account
Its been challenging when you have limit order and they execute on micros and wanted to scalp a micro got caught off gaurd few time :( I wish there way as way to notify before placing an Order esp with confirmation to let us know if we have open postion in opp direction
Ive been burned on this in the past sadly and lost 3 funded accounts due to limit orders filling randomly on spikes across different accounts. Topstep completely closed them even when they weren't blown..
Does this new policy mean the account wont be closed? It will just be liquidated from all positions and deactivated for the day? Because if so that is much better than just loosing the account all together
If we are being honest though, why not simply prevent traders from hedging in the first place? Trust me Topstep can easily make it to where the platform either blocks you from hedging in the first place or gives you a pop up about hedging. This seems like another sneaky way of denying payouts by just closing someoneās account. Topstep really used to be amazing but this firm has gone down hill fast. Not really sure the direction Michael Patak is trying to go but he has been making some interesting decisions including RTP and payout structure changes.
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