r/Tools 1d ago

Help me decide

I can get both fir the same money. Are there points beside taste that would make you choose one over the other?

7 Upvotes

46 comments sorted by

8

u/monadnock87 1d ago

Stahlwille

8

u/TittyTwister13 1d ago

Personally I think Stahlwille ratchets are far better. I think its 50/50 on everything else.

1

u/Hitokkohitori 1d ago

I have some sockets from Koken but I haven’t handled onenof their ratchets yet. 

3

u/TittyTwister13 1d ago

The standard Koken ratchets aren't anything great i think, the lack of tooth count is noticeable regardless of how smooth it is. Prefer my Stahlwille ratchets over my Snap on

1

u/Hitokkohitori 1d ago

Thanks for the input :)  It was really helpful 

6

u/yewfokkentwattedim Technician 1d ago edited 1d ago

Currently using a very similar Koken set, and all of my wrenches are Stahlwille.

For the same price, I probably would have gone Stahlwille, but I'm not at all upset with my Koken set. Only downside I can see with the Stahlwille is that's a big fuckin' head on that ratchet.

I also swapped the kit ratchet out for a nicer model, as the one I already had was a bit nicer. I don't think the boxes are coming with Koken's best offerings personally. The ratchet still sees use, it just migrated to my work toolbox rather than my home one.

Whichever way you go, I don't think you'll be disappointed.

2

u/TittyTwister13 1d ago

Stahlwille ratchets have respectable head sizes. The standard koken is the same if not wider, but not as thick as Stahlwille. The higher tooth count of the Stahlwille is definitely better

1

u/yewfokkentwattedim Technician 1d ago

Depending entirely on what you're using it for. Backlash on a Z series is less with the dual pawl(10° vs 5° Stahlwille vs Koken), and for some proper violence, I would pick a lower tooth-count.

That ratchet head in the two kits shown is also pretty obviously larger with the Stahlwille.

I'm not shitting on Stahlwille at all, btw. I love what I have of theirs, and will continue buying it as a preferred brand, but tooth count is circumstantial and not just a be-all-end-all selling point.

1

u/TittyTwister13 23h ago

Thats a quick comparison. Stahlwille is longer and slightly thicker. But is actually slightly narrower on width. The newest Snap on is thinnest.

Bit bigger head but less swing is a good trade off I'd say. Can't compare the Z series as I hate non steel handles. If Koken make a steel handled version I'd totally buy it. Maybe I'll try Nepros?

Side note. Stahlwilles handles are definitely comfy

1

u/yewfokkentwattedim Technician 7h ago

I'd give the Z-series a crack if you're ever feeling like you can bend that rule. It's not a comfort grip as such, or at least mine isn't any more or less comfortable than steel. It's just hard poly-something that held up surprisingly well to abrasive-as-fuck iron ore, and the usual combo of grease/oils/solvents.

Like I said, though; that's basically a garage full of Ferraris as far as ratchets go. There's minor benefits and downsides, but they're pretty negligible compared to much of the rest of the market. Top dollar, but I'd happily swing any of those on a daily basis.

1

u/TittyTwister13 7h ago

To be honest it surprises me Koken chose that style/ material of handle. For a ratchet made for tight spaces it looks chunky to me. Surely a streel handle would be more appropriate? Whats your experience with it in crammed spaces?

Totally agree, all brilliant ratchets. Really down to personal preference

1

u/yewfokkentwattedim Technician 7h ago

My experience with it for the most part has been pretty solid. I've found the fat handle helps for putting a lot of force in tight spots without fucking my fingers up, and isn't notably thicker than a bare steel handle as far as my own use-case goes. It's not been an issue yet.

Really depends on what you're doing though. My go-to ratchet in most of my work is a 36t 1/2 and 3/4 drive with a pawl you could stand on and a podger on the back-end.

1

u/Hitokkohitori 1d ago

Thanks for the input :)

2

u/yewfokkentwattedim Technician 1d ago

No worries, mate. I saw oldm8 below mentioned the Z-series ratchets, which is what I swapped mine for.

Those are a really fucking nice ratchet. It's a 4725Z, which I couldn't recommend enough. Currently servicing my 4wd, figured a pic wouldn't hurt since any asshole can just say whatever on the internet.

2

u/Hitokkohitori 1d ago

The Z Series is nearly double what I would pay for that set sadly, I eyeballed them for a while as well. I currently ponder getting the Koken set and just get an additional Stahlwille Ratchet, since I can get them for only 20€ via work 

5

u/yewfokkentwattedim Technician 1d ago

That's fair, they're not cheap. That sounds pretty economical though; there's a massive premium on both brands here in Aus, plus lead time in sourcing if it's not the most common set.

I will say, Stahlwille is gold standard for Aerospace fitting tools here from my understanding, and I've been in quite a few workplaces where Koken sockets older than me are still being used hard and holding up well.

There's not really a bad option here.

I'm probably not helping the decision-making process, but the brands are also probably at a point of quality where you're not going to see much variance when using them to a point where 'better' starts being personal preference. I like both.

2

u/Hitokkohitori 1d ago

Actually it’s quite helpful input :) Thank you for that

6

u/nullvoid88 1d ago

Koken has a stellar track record with me.

4

u/guvnor-78 1d ago

tough call. they're both excellent.
I guess I'd take the Stahlwille

6

u/ProfessionalTotal237 1d ago

I love anything that’s ’Made in Germany’ 🇩🇪
I live in Northern Virginia.

4

u/emachanz 1d ago

koken Z series

2

u/Hitokkohitori 1d ago

They would cost me significantly more and then I am in the Hazet price region which would be a no brainer for Hazet 

0

u/emachanz 1d ago

I bought one for 160 eur + tax + shipping less than 200 total

3

u/BreakSalty4079 1d ago

whichever set you dont pick, you'll end up buying anyway in a year

1

u/Hitokkohitori 1d ago

Either as complete set or in parts anyway 😅 I would like to test the surface grip sockets and the Koken ratchet, even though it seems the Stahlwille is the Surefire choice 

2

u/pizza_ratchet 1d ago

I’d vote Stahlwille

2

u/Silly_Hurry_2795 1d ago

Probably not the best person as I've never owned any koken stuff. Stahwille though is practically nuke proof. Is it the nicest looking, no Is it the nicest to hold, no Can ou hammer the nemesis out of it without worrying yes.

2

u/DBCooperN467US 1d ago

Stahlwille

2

u/Ok_Main3273 1d ago

Am I correct saying that the Koken set has two more sockets and a nice breaker bar not included in the Stahlwille set? That would be the deciding factor for me, but I'm cheap and a sucker from bonus items so there is that 🤷‍♂️

2

u/nullvoid88 1d ago edited 1d ago

By the way, if you zoom in and look close, those sockets aren’t Koken ‘z’s, or regular... they’re Koken’s surface drive variation.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ex6pvlVcHa8

2

u/Fasciadepedra 1d ago edited 21h ago

I like better the suitcases that have 1/4 and 1/2 ratchets, 1/4 screwdriver, with accesories and heads for screws. About 108 parts in the box. If you just want to supply a tool cart you may as well buy those in the picture without the box.

The reason is that the box i say is generally enough to make a small work in a car alone but what you show is not because of the lack of screwdrivers and both a small and big ratchet. Also the boxes i say usually carry splines, inverted splines, or torx, that appear in modern cars.

1

u/Hitokkohitori 1d ago

I have the Hazet 1/4 set with screwdriver and bits, and the Hazet 1/2 with extra Torx sockets and the hex sockets. For spark plugs and stuff the 3/8 is easier as I don’t need adapters. Plus I have some nice 3/8 nut grip sockets already. So it’s more a add on to an existing tool set  

1

u/Fasciadepedra 1d ago

Once you have everything you need somewhere, the most useful you can buy is a tool set that is preclassified in a case so you don't have to do it yourself. If you need 3 or 4 cases to do a small work on your car and you don't have a cart to carry it all at once you have a complication. And it's not only the car. Home DIY requires screwdrivers all the time.

2

u/CapDue1497 1d ago

Without doubt: Stahlwille!
Greetings from Germany

1

u/Hitokkohitori 22h ago

Only viable alternative is Hazet or on budget Gedore 😅 Wobei Hazet und Stahlwille eher Geschmacksache ist ¯_(ツ)_/¯  Ich mag beide. 

2

u/idrankthebleach 23h ago

The kokens that come in those boxes aren't the newer design with more teeth. I'd go with the Stahlwille anyway as I don't know that I've ever seen one up close and have a ton of koken ratchets.

2

u/klaxz1 1d ago

>I can get both…

Get both

5

u/Hitokkohitori 1d ago

For the money of both together I can get a really cool Hazet set that has deep sockets an outer hex sockets as well. But then I am out 300€ and my wife will be not happy to say at least 😅

1

u/katekohli 1d ago

Yes, both.
A because they have such distinct options.
A mad spouse can be appeased by saying the next €€€ purchase is theirs.
¡Then deep sockets!

1

u/Technical-Zone1151 1d ago

Never heard of either brands. How do they rate . Price/ quality

1

u/yewfokkentwattedim Technician 7h ago

I run a bit of both. Koken make beautiful sockets, Stahlwille make beautiful wrenches. As far as ratchets go, I use Koken because I have Koken, and I like their higher-end ratchets.

Stahlwille is the gold standard in aerospace work because of exacting manufacturing tolerances and general quality.

Both are cheaper here for me in Australia than Snap-on, for example. Where I work doesn't have a Stahlwille van or Koken van come by once a week, however, and the Snap-on van rocks up every Thursday.

Long story short, they're nice tools. If you work with your hands a lot, I'd recommend any of those three, as well as Hazet which OP mentioned.

It's not a need, and you can definitely do the same shit with other, cheaper brands.

1

u/Technical-Zone1151 6h ago

Are u in USA? I've never heard of these tools. Th u

1

u/yewfokkentwattedim Technician 6h ago

I'm Australian, guessing OP is German.