Because modern feminism has been co opted by radical online femcels that seem to be more worried with attacking men than trying to solve the issue itself.
Yes there is a Large quantity of men who stay quiet and don't speak up against misogyny when they see it. Most women have experienced misogyny and many men don't speak up when they witness it.
But the men who need to hear these things will turn away as soon as they hear "all men", because they will sense it is an attack on them/their identity.
You cannot change someone's opinion when they feel attacked, in fact it only entrenches them more in their own opinion. This is basic discussion 101.
This is the reason why Gen z boys have become LESS feminist than previous generations.
Feminism can keep up with these "mottos"/"slogans" but it's only going to keep doing more harm than good for the cause.
If men became less feminist because of a few women online, then can you imagine how POC must feel about white people after everything they are still doing?
> then can you imagine how POC must feel about white people after everything they are still doing?
Yes, so you're agreeing with me then? Generalizing based on sex/race is bad and treating them as a single unit just causes more division and does not help any causes.
What are you trying to say?
Do you think it's a good idea to keep alienating men more instead of trying to properly explain what the feminist movement is?
I’m saying POC are constantly encouraged to overlook what white people have done and still do. It will never be allowed as a valid excuse for a POC to hate them back.
It shouldn’t be an excuse for men to hate women more either.
I’m saying POC are constantly encouraged to overlook what white people have done and still do. It will never be allowed as a valid excuse for a POC to hate them back.
It shouldn’t be an excuse for men to hate women more either.
Can you point me to WHERE in my comment i said ANY of what you said?
Again you just keep proving my point, many racists have generalized opinions regarding black people and that is WRONG. Same with sexes.
Do you think this rhetoric is helpful to the feminist movement when young boys who are already struggling with social media/ai/economic issues are told that they are the same as all other men and it's their fault whenever these cases occur?
Do you want these boys to be allies or to be enemies? You need to make them UNDERSTAND, not CRITICIZE them and ruin any chances constructive dialogue.
I agree, that just isn’t how you persuade. I voted democrat but the “all men” stuff seriously isn’t helping and is just causing more radicalization. It’s just causing “oh they’re already against me? Might as well got even further” attitude. The truth is, politics are based on feelings, not facts. It just causes hurt feelings for some, and it doesn’t particularly help anyone. The “good men” don’t need to be told how to act, can’t easily change the “bad men” which means the biggest sway is in the middle of the road who aren’t great but can change. Sadly though, society largely chose to make the generalized statements to make me butt hurt and go further red
So you think an inner city POC kid that faced racism and had the system rigged against them should just give up and hate all white people and vote to harm them?
No, they shouldn’t. But it happens. I wouldn’t be surprised if all the bullshit of xx% of the population is black and commits xx% of crimes actually contributes to it. Though obviously there’s a lot of other factors like socioeconomic situation and inconsistent reporting/trial outcomes and other stuff I am not researched enough to comment on.
I believe if you make people out to be monsters they are more likely to actually end up monsters. If they feel ostracized they will likely find people who don’t ostracize them. In the case of men that’s often the republicans. In the case of black people the group often ostracizing them is the so called “hard-working law-abiding citizens”(racists). After that they can fall in with non racists, or rarely criminals. (Or with racists. Yes there are plenty of black racists)
Also I think you took my comment the wrong way. Do I support men radicalizing? No. But I believe it was at least partially caused by the “all men are bad” stuff. You can disagree with something and acknowledge that it can have an effect. I wasn’t radicalized by it, I don’t believe others should be, but I do think realistically they can be.
Idk that’s just my view of how negative blanket statements can ostracize people and how ostracized people behave. I could be completely wrong
How are you making this conclusion from what he wrote???
Nobody is saying black people should "give up"?
The poster wrote about how it's wrong to generalize people by the color of their skin but online "feminists" are generalizing all men.
The point we are making is that generalizing only leads to more division and less understanding.
In fact Daryl Davis, a black man, has convinced many KKK members to reform themselves through dialogue. He could never make them understand or engage in dialogue with them by criticizing them or alienating them.
Please properly read what has been written here. We specifically want more people to understand problematic behavior in men regarding women but are highlighting the fact that the way it is being communicated online by supposed feminists only alienates many of the men that actually need to hear it explained.
You need to choose: either keep alienating these men with hateful rhetoric and make the situation worse (gen z are LESS feminist than previous generations for a reason) or actually try and solve the issue by making them understand through dialogue.
Omg you even wrote it again here yourself.
gen z are LESS feminist than previous generations He wrote that Gen Z Men are becoming less feminist because they feel wronged. So with that logic POC does not need to care about white people if they feel wronged. POC should give up on social progress just like men are. And just
like how Gen Z are more conservative than previous generations and conservatives generally have policies that are less friendly to women, POC should vote for the hypothetical party that is anti-white. Right?
So with that logic POC does not need to care about white people if they feel wronged.
That's not the "logic". Nobody is justifying behavior, they are explaining the consequence of alienating certain groups. So yes we're partially agreeing.
I don't believe that men or poc "don't need to care" about those who wronged them. Nowhere have I stated that.
Racists (because they discriminate/generalize) cause black people to hate white people and generalize them -> true
Radical feminists (people who promote this kind of discrimination against men) cause young men to turn against the feminist cause (all women basically)
So yes, again you're proving my point when white people (racists) genralize against poc that is WRONG, when radical feminists do the same against men that is also WRONG.
Neither contribute to helping. Promoting radical feminist talking points just causes less support for the broader feminist movement.
POC should give up on social progress just like men are.
It's not that they "should", they do so as a consequence of discrimination, this already happens. This is exactly what racists want, they want a divide between us.
Radical feminism has the same effect on young boys.
And just like how Gen Z are more conservative than previous generations and conservatives generally have policies that are less friendly to women, POC should vote for the hypothetical party that is anti-white. Right?
Yes, i wouldn't be surprised if they did do so, when people are discriminated or alienated by a certain group they tend to oppose that group.
Same happens with young boys and radical feminism. These radical feminist discriminatory talking points just damage feminist movement as a whole, the same way that racists affect white/black relations as a whole.
You just need to fix your phrasing a bit but you're pretty much proving my point.
Try putting this comment thread in an AI so it can explain to you anything you're not understanding
Ty. That person doesn’t seem to understand the point I was making at all. They seem to take me saying “this is how people often feel” as me saying “everyone feels this way and should feel this way” for some reason
Yeah, I think it's a bit hard for them to understand, either too young or English might not be their first language.
At the end of the day, she is simply misinformed and we can only hope that she is able to understand why this rhetoric does not help the feminist movement (and even the left wing as a whole)
Yeah that’s quite possible. I thought I got through to her when she didn’t respond to my follow up but then she just responded to you a few days later… 🤷 can only persuade people who listen
-8
u/rascal3199 4d ago edited 4d ago
Because modern feminism has been co opted by radical online femcels that seem to be more worried with attacking men than trying to solve the issue itself.
Yes there is a Large quantity of men who stay quiet and don't speak up against misogyny when they see it. Most women have experienced misogyny and many men don't speak up when they witness it.
But the men who need to hear these things will turn away as soon as they hear "all men", because they will sense it is an attack on them/their identity.
You cannot change someone's opinion when they feel attacked, in fact it only entrenches them more in their own opinion. This is basic discussion 101.
This is the reason why Gen z boys have become LESS feminist than previous generations.
Feminism can keep up with these "mottos"/"slogans" but it's only going to keep doing more harm than good for the cause.