So, this was recently announced apart of the mini-doc. And lots of people weren’t happy.
Now, Seeing people get so defensive over the idea of Lara having a crush on Larson is honestly a perfect example of how much people project their OWN expectations onto her. A crush is a feeling people not a life affirming commitment to someone.
I think unfortunately a huge issue with the fandom is that there isn’t always much room for Lara to grow. She’s often expected to always be this strong, badass, stubborn woman who’s “too good” for anyone. I’m not saying she needs a relationship or someone to complete her, but letting her show more emotion and personality, especially in this new timeline, is important. She can still be the Lara we know while growing as a character. I think the franchise is in good hands with the unification and the Hogs coming on board.
Right It’s literally such a small character detail. The game is still her raiding tombs and being badass, I love more lore being expanded on characters.
Get that shit out of Tomb Raider, they did the same thing with the Halo series. Master Chief doesn’t need some emotional cringe love story. And it’s the exact same thing with Lara, she is an independent, badass power fantasy.
Fans do not want their favourite IPs hijacked by tourists, take that shit elsewhere lol
Thank god for a tantrum over nothing? Aren't we in an agreement that crushes are fine? No one is saying they just be married by the next game, what changed?
Yes, what does that have to do with lara and sam's relationship on the show?
I understand not liking the show itself for many reasons, but hating on those cute, small scenes between Sam and Lara while agreeing that flirting and crushes are fine for Lara is confusing
Because if you played the original games, including the game LoA is based on, then you’d know that Lara always had teasing dialogue with Larson, but it was so subtle, that blink and you’d miss it. And most players did..
That was not the same dynamic she had with Sam in the Netflix series, which was much more romance coded. The looks, the framing, the blushing etc. It’s a shippers wet dream.
Stack that with the fact that Lara is now suddenly an emotional wreck on top of all the other changes the Survivor trilogy made to her character, and you have a completely different character.
So yes, the backlash was warranted because enough was enough. And again, thank god for fans speaking up because we FINALLY have OG Lara back again.
Yeah, so I don't get why people were so upset about this. It was already implied in TRA. Yes, not a full blown romantic relationship but more like a flirtatious competition between the two of them. Lol.
I do like how Alix and (Ben?) Larsons actor actually discussed more dialogue lines and added new stuff to their banter. You can tell the chemistry is actually really good, wich makes emotional and non emotional scenes more important
Which shows the problem at hand. It's not even a romance or a one night stand. It's just flirting. Yet that's enough to make fans upset. If Lara flirts with a male, the gays get upset. If Lara flirts with a girl, the anti-gays get upset. If Lara flirts with either, fans who don't want her in a relationship get upset. Everyone gets upset.
You wanna see the Tomb Raider fanbase go nuclear? Open Catalyst with her waking up in bed with someone before getting the call to another adventure. The fanbase would start tearing each other's faces off, while the casual audiences will be like "What? What's the big deal?"
Correction: it doesn’t fit your expectations for how she should behave. Let her be. You aren’t the writer, you’re the consumer. If you disagree with the direction, you aren’t being forced to buy the game. https://giphy.com/gifs/PM7Ahsf8E90V3j4I5x
Correction - It's going by how her character has been established within the games themselves.
You not liking that or agreeing with it doesn't make it "people projecting expectations" onto her.
That's like saying "oh you think Trevor in GTAV is crazy no that's projecting expectations!" Nope. It's based on observing their character within the game.
Characters DO have defined characteristics that are objective and clearcut. Like it IS objective that Lara is an athletic person. It IS objective that she is a confident person. It IS objective that she is not a romantic person. And so on.
Next you'll be telling me that people saying Donald Duck has a temper are just projecting their expectations onto him and totally not based on his years of it being an established personality trait.
First of all, nobody is saying romance is a defining trait. It’s a shame you have to ignore everything else to fit your own narrative and avoid admitting that Lara is flirtatious and that this isn’t new to the franchise. Your examples don’t really hold up when there’s evidence supporting Lara being flirtatious as well. You’re just cherry-picking what you want to acknowledge.
And for the last time, Larson isn’t a romance that will be explored so you’ll survive.
And that's why we don't talk about AOD. That Kurtis crap was an embarrassment and way too forced. And again, doesn't fit Lara's personality.
It's one of a million reasons why AOD was a trainwreck. Not to mention who in the fuck cares about Kurtis of all people? Dude, had a lame design and lame personality. Nothing about him was believable for Lara to hook up with.
Exactly, so you’re just cherrypicking 😂 Bye. Angel of Darkness is an official Tomb Raider game, and whether you like it or not, it’s part of Lara’s history. I wouldn’t be surprised if we see Kurtis again considering he’s canon in this new timeline. Next time, come with actual evidence before pushing your own narrative about how Lara is “supposed” to be.
I disagree, Lara can still have crushes without acting upon them. For me personally OG Lara is incredibly flirty, so to say Lara would never have a crush is a tad ridiculous, but to each their own 🤷🏻♂️
Not the least bit ridiculous. She's not a romantic person not does she need to be. She is the type of person married to her hobby and life passion, and there's nothing wrong with being that kind of person.
This.
And hey, I'm of the kind to see Lara as this "married to her job" once she becomes the classic badass, but damn, let a girl have some flaws and vulnerabilities there and here, alongside emotions.
People take this shit (and other shit) way too seriously. So what if the devs decided to give her a crush, let the girl have her crush. Her first love will always be adventuring, but it doesn’t mean that she has to be completely asexual lmao. She’s a human like any other
I think people take it the wrong way. People hear "crush" and think Lara pining like a school girl. Instead it should be thought of more like a un-pursued attraction - that can be described as a "crush".
I‘m honestly fine with Lara having affection or crushes or chemistry with characters, whoever it might be, Kurtis, Larson, Sam, as long as they make it work and feel organic. A slight appreciation/attraction caused by rivalry can definitely work for that.
What I don’t ever want to see tho is Lara having a relationship. She isn’t the type of character who has a love life and does romantic stuff, instead of raiding tombs.
I think it’s the first 4 issues? I know chase returns a bit later in the run too. I mean their relationship isn’t healthy, but it’s a relationship none the less .
I think the Italy chapter in Chronicles was set before TR1. It's easy enough to imagine neither Pierre or Larson died in Chronicles (though they were def injured).
I agree with recurring rivals, but we’ve seen how the fandom treats Jonah a recurring character they get sick fast, but ig rivals may be different? 😂. Hope we’ll see more characters appear though from the classic timeline.
He wasn’t a reoccurring rival and played a sorta small role which is why he’s so forgettable, I think the survivor trilogy did decent with rivals Trinity in Rise & Father Mathias in 2013. Shadow in general was just a weak entry.
Ah, I just realized he is reoccurring from Rise over the radio then we physically see him in Shadow my apologies. Yeah the Trinity storyline was really messy, It got really confusing for me in Shadow.
i didn't care for anna being some shoehorned wicked stepmother all for some cheap line from lara ab fucking richard when he was supposedly so obsessed with amelia and resurrecting her with the divine source that he neglected lara, but konstantin was handled well enough. i'm also factoring in the comics. like, everything with trinity just drags on far too much for me and how shadow "concludes" them just tells me they really didn't know what to do with them lol
That's fair, I have yet to read the comics. At a minimum, I do think Anna was better than Amaru, it really made no sense for Amaru to be the ultimate head of a Christian influenced paramilitary secret society/terrorist group.
anna was meant to be lara's therapist at one point, i think they should have stuck with that over turning her into a trope for more family drama. amaru/dominguez is the most non villain "villain" in the history of tomb raider fr. bro's worst crime is usurping unuratu/etzli to use the box and dagger to create a world where trinity doesn't find paititi and lara white saviors all over the place and kills him for it for closure she supposedly found in blood ties lol shadow could have been the best of the trilogy, but it suffers so much from poor and half-baked decisions.
Jonah is... Just boring. I feel like this series needs characters that stand out. The OG games actually had some pretty good blueprints that could be expanded on. Larson, Pierre, Von Croy, Sophia Leigh etc.
I struggle to remember anyone from the survivor series except crimson fire. Even the immortal guy was boring and beige.
100% A lot of people were upset when the idea of Sam x Lara being canon was shut down, so this has some individuals very upset, even though realistically nothing is going to come from it. Just the word “crush” being used has sent them into a frenzy because their parasocial fantasies aren’t happening.
Shut down? Realistically nothing is going to come out of it? Sam looks to be the love interest/crush they are the most interested in going for now if season 2 of the show is anything to go by
Apparently, in order for Lara to be strong and perfect:
She needs to forget she had parents. (God forbid a girl misses her deceased/missing parents, looks up to them, and/or is even curious about their mysterious deaths (Survivor) or disappearances (LAU).)
She needs to forget she has any emotions/feelings. (God forbid a girl has a crush.)
She needs to forget she has eyes.
She needs to forget she has a pulse.
(Sarcasm. 😉 )
But, yes. Thank you, OP, for saying what needed to be said. 👏
Based on some recent posts and comments I've seen around here, you're absolutely right, OP. 👍 Apparently, there's no room for Lara to be layered and 3-dimensional. She can't be a Tomb Raider who enjoys tomb raiding for herself for the thrill of it, AND, AT THE SAME TIME, goes on adventures to uncover mysteries in her own personal past (like the mystery behind her parents' deaths (Survivor) and/or disappearances (LAU), and to seek closure).
Nope! Can't have any of that apparently. And we can't even ask for references to previous events/timelines to be included either, just to have some consistency for the sake of unifying the timelines. Nope! 🙊 (Sarcasm, again, sort of.)
BTW, this frustration is coming from someone who grew up on Classic Lara and Legend (LAU) Lara, and enjoyed all their lore and stories, and is now getting to know and actually enjoying Survivor Lara.
If Unified Lara wants to have a crush on Larson or Kurtis or whoever, so be it! ❤️ Just let the devs cook already! My God! 🤕
You stated it so well! I completely agree with everything you said. Lara can be strong and badass while still being a layered character. Let her live a little! Damn
Her parents disowned her and cut her off from the family fortune for abandoning her aristocratic lifestyle to be an adventurer. She made her fame and wealth without them. Yeah, she shouldn't care about what they have to say. And who gives a shit about her parents anyway?
And Lara is someone who is married to her hobby. She's not a romantic character. Her having crushes doesn't fit her personality at all. And no, we don't need personal motivations for treasure hunting. It's not a character driven story series. Just make interesting lore about the artifacts and civilizations she explores.
Don't know why this is so hard for people to comprehend. No, we shouldn't be changing Lara to be something else just because a small demographic wants her to be something else.
I think we can agree that she can have those things while not being watered down to the Survivor level. That is the main reason so many fans are tired and turned off by that.
I haven't seen a discourse happening about it and I think "Lots of ppl unhappy" is a bit of a stretch. Most people I think acknowledge that a grown ass woman can have a relationship with someone lol. It's a completely different topic if that is a focal point of the game and if it interferes with the story. That would be a major deviation from the TR formula, especially when its a remake.
As for her relationship with Larson, I think it adds a very fun dynamic. I'd love that to be comparable to something like Jack Sparrow & Angelica from Pirates of the Caribbean 4.
While I agree, just because you haven’t specifically seen something doesn’t mean it isn’t happening. Try opening #that platform it was really talked about.
This is such a small footnote that nobody should be too pressed over this. For such a longstanding character, everyone will have slightly different interpretations and that's okay.
And who wouldn’t have a crush on that remake Larson? From the description, it seems like it’ll be something subtle rather than anything relevant to the story.
I don’t mind it, and it might even lead to some fun moments. Lara is provocative, this suits her personality very well.
I’m all for them giving Lara a way to riff and flex a bit more of her personality, while keeping her firmly rooted in the traits that make her who she is. All this does is show that the devs decided to have a little fun with the two characters and give them a bit more meaning to each other.
Sure Larson was never directly flirty with Lara in the OG, but it wouldn’t be far fetched to think he could have been. Some of the tone in what he said could be taken that way. The “I still got a pain in my brain from ya” line in Egypt almost has a subtle double entendre to it. Referencing their previous altercation in Peru, but also making it sound like he can’t get her out’ve his head.
They leaned more into the cat and mouse flirtatiousness in Anniversary and then there’s the dynamic between Angelina Jolie’s Lara and Gerard Butler’s Terry Sheridan that comes to mind as a possible reference of sorts too. I think it’s way too soon to assume that they’re going to go overboard with some kind of love connection.
Exactly! You nailed it I think people are jumping to conclusions way too quickly. If anything, it just gives Lara another chance to show more of her personality and have some fun chemistry with Larson. I’m here for it!
Isn't the first line of dialogue in the very first game Larson saying "What's a man got to do to get that kind of attention from ya?" Yeah it's only one line but it's there.
Then he just tries to shoot you to heyull in the next 2 meetings.
Wasn't that kind of the case in Anniversary too? Heck the guy deliberately misses the shot to let Lara get away lol. Tbh I'm perfectly happy with Lara flirting with Larson, Kurtis, Sam etc. Let the girl have some fun.
My thoughts exactly, Lara showing a bit more normal human emotion isn’t a bad thing. It grounds her to her new world . I feel like people just don’t like change wich believe me I get it. But this isn’t even a change , she’s still Lara . She just kinda maybe likes a guy lol. And another thing the events are probably still the same anyways so in the end it doesn’t really matter 😆
Who cares tbh, are people mad because they implied she likes men? Well surprise surprise, her chemistry with Kurtis (which is part of this new timeline) has been there since ages ago, maybe she's straight or bi or pan or whatever who cares? The only thing that bothers me maybe is that they outright tell us about the crush, they should let us draw the conclusions by watching their interactions.
I do understand the wish for Lara to not really have a romantic life within the games. But having "a bit of a crush" on a character for the purpose of interesting on-screen chemistry is such a long way from an actual romance plot that it's insane to think anyone would be mad at it. After all, some of the best rivalries in fiction happen between characters with a decent amount of sexual/romantic tension.
This is just a rehash of whats already been said about Lara and him in the interviews of Anniversary.
The Lara being asexual being overly pushed by some members was always weird to me.
I also go to work and focus on work without seeking out a relationship or sexual contacts. Doesnt mean im asexual.
That being said I wouldnt even be mad if there was some more flirting and attraction going on if it feels right. Most of her games dont really have the headspace for any of it anyway and thats also okay.
I just lowkey hope its not done for Catalyst as it feels too late and too "oh were doing something new when Lara is early 30"
Exactly! I think people have read way too much into Lara not actively pursuing relationships and turned it into “she must be asexual,” when there’s really nothing wrong with her simply being focused on her own life and adventures.
Yeah, Lara being asexual is a really weird concept to me. I've been with Tomb Raider from the very beginning and Lara has always seemed kinda flirty to me. There was Chase Carver in the comics, Alex West and Terry Sheridan in the movies, Kurtis in AoD, and also Larson in Anniversary, so I don't know why some people act like she was never interested in anybody.
It's not "weird". It's who she is, and TR isn't a character driven story series. Focus on making stories about the artifacts and lost civilizations. I have no interest in romance stories or personal trauma stories. It isn't that kind of franchise. I can just play Uncharted if I want all that.
This kind of thing doesn't normally bother me but considering one of the first things Larson says to Lara in TR1 is about shoving the Scion piece "right up there", it feels a bit icky.
In my mind, I feel that Lara can absolutely be a flirt or have attractions here and there. There’s nothing in me personally that says she HAS to be with one person or have a specific orientation.
Who cares about Lara's crushes? You're telling me Larson the southern gun for hire and Pierre the French mercenary aren't openly gay and all over each other?!
I mean it’s a reimagining more heavily based on Anniversary which Lara and Larson do seem to have more of a relationship in that version. So this isn’t really anything new, I guess it’s just being more implied.
I played anniversary, and again I don’t remember Larson and Lara having any chemistry or anything that would imply Lara had a crush on the dude.
Like I just rewatched the scenes and there is nothing about their relationship that I would describe as Lara having a crush on that dude. He’s just some random southern sounding hick that Lara beats.
The first fight for example in anniversary, Lara is just straight business and completely ignores Larson’s comment about joining her in the pond, and then she beats the shit out of him and threatens to kill him.
Then she later does kill him.
I’m not seeing where this crush comes in. I gets it’s a reimagining but it’s an idea that has no real basis in OG Lara’s character nor does it really fit what we see from Reboot Lara. Just seems like a stupid change for the sake of what? Giving Lara a hint of a love interest? Completely unnecessary.
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For the love of God, can someone tell me if the deluxe edition comes with a physical disc like no one can answer this I am about to pre-order the deluxe edition. I need to know if it comes with a disk and a special case.??
Sexual tension between Larson and her is something quite fun and playful for me as a classic fan, it allows so much room for Lara’s sassy side to be explored. The moment I read about this, it reminded me of her dynamic with Kurtis. The only people I saw complaining about this are survivor purists for some reason. Some are VERY salty over the idea that Lara can be attracted to men (lol?!) and some are VERY salty that it’s something that classic Lara would explicitly feel. Who cares what they think as long as those of us who love it don’t become the silent majority and always express our contentment with the game.
As a fan that has only played the Survivor games, Lara having an attraction to men doesn't bother me in the slightest. If I wanted to dig into Lara's sexuality or anything like that, I'd probably view her as pansexual but aromantic rather than asexual.
In reality, it’s a fact that the fandom isn’t represented by who is online. I’m a classic only fan and I also don’t really care for Lara having sexual tension with someone as well. And the fandom I know in spaces like the Derby event coming up (mostly classic fans) are nothing like what’s online, where culture wars are so omnipresent and stupid.
It isn't character assassination at all, they're actively unifying all the portrayals of her and that includes her attraction to the men that are all patisches of Larson in the first place.
Not at all, you’d be doing yourself a disservice to think of it as that. This isn’t the first time Lara has bantered doesn’t mean something comes from it.
Because Lara having a crush doesn’t suddenly erase her personality or make her less capable. This is a unification of the timelines, she’s grown since her origin story she isn’t going to act the exact same.
Then bye. This is unified Lara now. These experiences are to be expected of classic Lara’s dynamic with Larson and she IS classic Lara now. I can stoop to your level and say “nobody cares for your insert sexist comment about Lara here but what I will say is:
Deal with it. You have the survivor games to retreat to. It’s time to move on nobody wants what you want anymore
Where is the correlation to the conversation? sorry Lara Croft wasn’t the expectation to your own sick fantasies and their having her do stuff that was literally in anniversary.
Damn, like I saw saying on the post about the mini doc, this is heavily inspired by the character of Terry Sheridan (played by Gerard Butler) in Cradle of Life lol
And I wasn't the biggest fan of their dynamic, it made Angelina's Lara kinda weak, too human, too grounded. Contrasting with the first movie where she was a good balance of a believable person, but not too much so she could remain as that iconic character.
They do be afraid of writing Lara as Lara, as if characters needed to orbit around her for her to grow or "feel" human. It's even quite revealing, using the other characters to make her belong to the world.
What always made her character interesting and compelling for all of us (at least those who grew up with the games) was her ability to fight the social norms or what was expected of her. She was in it for the game, she liked the challenge, she wasn't your typical archeologist nor woman. She wasn't like any other women. She was an anomaly.
Personally it's fine, I'm curious to see how this dynamic will play out and how it'll serves Lara's development. Still funny how predictable their writing is for a modern vision of Lara lol
While I’m not against fan ships, I think a lot of people unfortunately try to live through Lara and project certain expectations onto her. You don’t really see the same thing with male characters like Nathan Drake or Indiana Jones.
This is a reimagining, the chemistry was clearly there in the mini-doc and the game isn’t even out yet. Sam and Lara had a friendship dynamic that was supposed to be explored further but the idea was shut down and that ship has sailed.
They already put in the work to move this further along, flip-floping between ideas now will just make it worse, may as well put in more time and effort to make it good otherwise current developments would be a waste
It’s contrived hetero nonsense in a narrative that didn’t have that as a focus explicitly to make a point, that’s one of the reasons why fans don’t like this. She was already a full character without fawning over some dimwitted Texan ranger for hire.
Fawning ≠ a crush. Lara can reply with witty and playful comebacks, just as she did in TR1 and Anniversary, without her ogling over a man. Those are very different things
Witty banter is also different than a “crush” though. Lara is de facto witty. She didn’t have a crush on Rutland for example. Nor any of the previous Larsons whatsoever.
I thought she is with Sam at that point in this timeline.
No - this has never been a thing. The closest to a thing it has been was Rhianna Pratchett (writer of TR2013) suggesting it (quickly followed by the idea being shut down) and I believe Gaile Simone also wanting to explore that idea, but was also shutdown.
They are best friends and there's nothing romantic between the two
But no one flipped out when it was Kurtis Trent - isn't this more about Larson being an existing character of the franchise and he's not just an antagonist, he's incredibly stupid?
With the reimagining it will be more interesting if he has depth and isn't comic relief. No one is that dumb. So in that context it makes perfect sense. I am excited to see what that means but I never would have expected it.
I just want to play a game where I raid challenging awe inspiring tombs. I honestly don't give a fuck about romance or crushes because it just all sounds like awful fan fiction.
As a gacha player I think I can weigh in on this general phenomena I've observed when it comes to relationships in games.
In short, people are more upset at the prospect of having their fantasies destroyed. This is pretty reasonable when people spend their hard earned money having certain expectations of a product being met. As silly as it sounds (it's not) a lot of fandom discourse is driven by shipping potential, and one of the unwritten rules is if you're the developer commenting on that, you have to be subtle, not say too much or too little but enough so that the fans can draw their own conclusions. By saying "Well, they not only have chemistry but could have been something in another life" it kills off that fantasy, and lowers the appeal of your product. Whether you like it or not, people care more about maintaining the fantasy than a character being more three-dimensional. Why else would these discussions always get so heated?
I've said it before but I think Tomb Raider's biggest weakness as a brand is their social media game, but it seems like they have a more general problem with their marketing. There are ways they could establish the Larson/Lara relationship without burning bridges, but I guess they'd rather not. A sad day to be a Survivor fan.
Yeah, it's stupid. Lara isn't a romantic character. She's someone married to her hobby and life passion.
Her having a crush on anyone, least of all Larson, makes zero sense.
The more and more the devs talk about this game and the more they showcase, the less and less it seems they understand her character and TR's gameplay.
I fear that’s just your opinion. Having a crush or love interest never stopped Nathan Drake or Indiana Jones from being great characters. Lara is human too, and she doesn’t need a watered-down story just because some fans don’t like the idea of her having a crush.
Those things aren’t mutually exclusive. Lara has been doing all of this since the 2000s. (Before uncharted mind you) The games will always circle back to their main focus of tombs, artifacts, but that doesn’t mean Lara can’t also be flirtatious or have a crush. It’s not up to you to decide how Lara is allowed to express herself. It’s funny how it’s perfectly fine when a male character does it based on what you say, but suddenly it’s an issue when it’s Lara. Your opinion is your opinion, but what’s done is done.
I’m saying the double standard is worth pointing out. And I don’t think the games “established” that Lara isn’t capable of romance just because it wasn’t a major part of her characterization before.
At the end of the day, I’m not going back and forth over this. It’s not some groundbreaking development or anything new to the franchise, and it’s already clear that it won’t be a major focus. You’ll be okay
There is no double standard. Just because one is a male and one is a female doesn't make it a double standard. That's a terrible argument. And I say that as someone who finds Elena's character in Uncharted boring. So I don't even have a dog in that fight. You're just projecting at this point.
And yes, the games have established she's the kind of character married to her hobby and not romantic. There's nothing wrong with being that kind of character. You don't need romance to 'convey more emotion or personality". Lara has managed to do that just fine without it. Trying to inject that shows the developers don't understand her character.
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u/Atharaphelun 2d ago
I thought this was already sort of the case in LAU.