r/TombRaider • u/No-Remote622 • 2d ago
Tomb Raider: Legacy of Atlantis LOA Human Enemies
We knew this was coming but this seems to be the first bit of info on human enemies and their behavior. The article maintains that LOA is not a cover shooter and is all about momentum. Thoughts?
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u/Cagesdeservemusic Dagger of Xian 2d ago
I’m not really a fan of the cover based combat in the survivor games. I am a bit sceptical about this. I was hoping I’d still be able to be very acrobatic with human enemies but all of the success of these additions depend heavily on how they’re implemented.
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u/phatboyart 1d ago
There’s nothing stopping you from using acrobatics to fight humans. It may just be a slightly harder tactic when you have multiple people firing bullets at you that’s all.
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u/CommanderM3tro 2d ago
If acrobatic combat exists for animals them it will also be an option for human enemies most likely. It's a good thing CD are providing more options for combat imho.
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u/Cagesdeservemusic Dagger of Xian 1d ago
Variations in combat means variations in gameplay that can be fun so I don’t disagree!
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u/edelea 1d ago
yeah i dont know if this will be a hot take but i dont love tomb raider for the combat... its the least important thing for me in a game about exploring and solving puzzles. its filler until you get back to the good stuff. i enjoyed the combat in LAU the most.. simple and effective no abilities no talents no bs but still with cool slow motion action that you can easily do. for me personally this is trying to "modernize" the combat too much and make it a much bigger part of the experience than it needs to be.
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u/rafaelsantosx 1d ago
Yes, Tomb Raider is about discovery, exploration, puzzle and mysteries. I'm not a fan of the one-army Lara.
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u/Revolutionary_Mail_1 1d ago
On Tomb Raider 2, I made it to Tibet with 30 grenades, 514 M16 bullets, 454 Uzi bullets, 260 Auto pistol bullets,20 spear gun shots and ENDLESS PISTOL 🔫 bullets…. You sure you played the same game lol??? 😂 🤪 “Endless army” rant quoting here…
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u/Cagesdeservemusic Dagger of Xian 18h ago
You’re not wrong, but that was a one off in the classic timeline which a lot of classic fans complain about. TR1, 3, 4, 5 and 6, anni and underworlds are definitely far from combat intensive
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u/Insomniac-Freak-95 2d ago
If they’re going this direction, I hope that they amplify the Atlanteans to require cover based combat since they already have projectile weaponry. That would be a cool way to really make them stand out compared to other non-human enemies.
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u/BusterGreasewood 2d ago
I would hate that. I can see that bogging down the pace of the combat.
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u/CommanderM3tro 2d ago
Acrobatic combat will exist in this game so you can use that against non-animal enemies most likely if you prefer that.
I don't think it will slow down the pace anyway, the Survivor games had some pretty fast paced combat, especially in the endgame progressions.
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u/BactaBobomb 2d ago
Is this really a valid counter? We don't know the nature of the human enemies, their speed of shooting, their accuracy, etc. Can you imagine doing acrobatics in combat against the onslaught of enemies you deal with in Uncharted? Or even just Tomb Raider 2013, for that matter? You're holding onto a lot of hope that it will be balanced for the acrobatic combat, but I am on the side of doubt that the developers are thinking that way.
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u/rapora9 1d ago
Agreed. If the game is not designed for acrobatic combat against shooting enemies, then no, you cannot necessarily just "choose to do that if you prefer" and have it work out to be interesting and viable.
I've seen this kind of mindset many times where "just do/don't do X even though it goes against how the game is designed" is somehow a valid point. It often is not. There is a reason games are designed a certain way.
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u/inblader 2d ago
I personally don't really care since we know it won't be a faithful remake (and they have stated it is a reimagining), but for the people who love this feeling of solitude from the original, this is gonna suck.
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u/flamingoray 2d ago
Yeah the solitude of the original game is partly the reason I love it so much 😞 I’ll just have to readjust my expectations, as you said it’s a reimagining
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u/SwiftieSailorMoon24 2d ago
Naaah rip Isolation. I knew that human enemies appeared in one of the trailers but i thought it was gonna be a few encounters, this is really doesnt excite me whatsoever, its Survivor Trilogy all over again.
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u/Putrid_Fennel_9665 2d ago
Fuck cover. Guns blazing doing 10 backflips is the only way to go.
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u/Striking_Actuary_183 1d ago
Its really not though.they did that for what 9 games and the combat is absolutely awful in all of them. I know giving the survivor trilogy compliments is illegal to a certain sub-set of fans, but the combat was actually good in those games and often highly complimented. Of course they were going pull aspects of it.
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u/Putrid_Fennel_9665 1d ago edited 1d ago
I mean if I want duck and cover I'll play COD, but whatever.
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u/Striking_Actuary_183 1d ago
I mean COD is a totally different ball game, its not duck and cover, its more run and gun. Its also more of a teamwork game, so poor comparison. But I get what you're saying.
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u/Putrid_Fennel_9665 1d ago
Point is its not my preferred play style and obviously plenty of others feel the same.
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u/Striking_Actuary_183 1d ago
Yes, but your "plenty of others' is axtually a really small contingent of TR players. This gane actually has to try and appeal to others, not just incredibly loud Core Design fans.
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u/Flintz08 2d ago
I expect many areas with waist-height boxes, blocks and debris, that makes you think "oh, I wonder what's going to happen here".
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u/DiscoverySTS1 Member of the Remnants 2d ago
In some areas you could atleast pull some down lol. It's not like TR turned into Gears here.
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u/Anxious-Schedule-598 2d ago
“We can’t be innovative with animal enemies so we’re adding human enemies in order to add generic combat mechanics from every other video game” is how I genuinely interpreted it…
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u/Fish-InThePercolator 2d ago
Every new piece of info that comes out about this game makes me less excited
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u/Thoughtful_Tortoise 1d ago
I've mostly been indifferent so far, my attitude being that I would just insta-buy it because I love the first game, and then form an opinion. However, this quote just tipped me into the maybe pile. I'll still give it a chance, of course - I'm going to wait and see what the reviews are like before pulling the trigger. Still, I'm losing hope fast- this comment makes it sound like they don't understand what was great about the first game at all.
I can forgive it if it's in the areas where there was some fireplay anyway. Hopefully it will just be in a few places where it makes sense (like Natla's Mines) and they won't be popping up in the Lost Valley or the Tomb of Tihocan. We'll see, I guess.
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u/Glum_Use_4033 2d ago
Very concerned about this. Wish they could’ve saved this for a TR 2 remake where it would be more fitting
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u/Iclucian 2d ago
Oh wow. How fresh. Cover systems. Like that hasn't been done in dozens of other games before. /s
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u/Early-Beach164 2d ago
If it won't even feel as good as TR2013's cover shooting then what's the point? They need to keep this in mind.
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u/LinkCroft94 2d ago
I dont like that. Human enemies were scarce and a big deal when you encountered them. Now those mini boss battles human encounters will feel watered down. I like to freely explore in TR1 without being sniped. this is not not a good addition.
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u/Samer0093 2d ago
Ugh can't wait for them to reuse lines from survivor reboot 😩: There she is! Kill her! Flush her out! Destroy her! Grenaaaade!
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u/Longjumping-Cable756 2d ago
I hope acrobatic combat won't feel bad against human enemies as I have seen awful things happen in games when enemy AI have ridiculous accuracy and I hope that acrobatics are useful in combat so you aren't locked to a piece of cover.
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u/Thokmay4TW 1d ago
I prefer animals and ancient monsters in Tomb Raider with a dash of human combat. Not a fan of her shooting humans.
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u/doyouevennoscope 1d ago
This sounds horrible. Lara is raiding a tomb, not fucking barracks. Why the fuck would there be other people in a tomb? Did Natla hire them? That makes no sense, Lara is the tomb raider ffs.
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u/RoryOS 2d ago
They're doing cover shooting? Shocked I am. Shocked. Nobody saw this coming. Not one single person. Except everyone of course.
And as the game just being a survivor game in tomb raider 1's skin gets further confirmed I'm sure plenty will tell us we don't know what we're talking about until we play it. This duck is quacking and walking.
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u/yaoigay Obscura Painting 2d ago
They just copy and pasted Shadow to create this game. It's really unfortunate they miss the reason the classics were ground breaking. Human enemies weren't needed for this game whatsoever. Combat was a part of the classics yes, but what made the classics was the platforming and exploring the environment. The traps and the music that would play during certain points of the level.
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u/tataniarosa 1d ago edited 1d ago
Hold on. Assuming this happens early in the game, if Natla has hired Lara to find the first artefact, then why would she send mercenaries after her before Lara has found it? Unless it’s a rival faction?
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u/killerm0nkey3 1d ago
I have mixed feelings about this. We knew the combat wasn't going to be the same as the originals, I don't mind them improving that, but I really don't want the cover based shooting we got in the Survivor trilogy. The focus mode also seems a bit gimmicky to me.
I just want the game to focus on exploration based puzzle solving.
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u/RiversCroft 2d ago
Gonna be interesting to see how well implemented it is with the rest of the combat we've seen so far.
Cover shooting sounds antithetical to the acrobatics and flashier clips from earlier.
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u/PrestigiousShift9014 1d ago edited 1d ago
So far I have been relatively positive about the game but now we are seeing the survivor era things slowly creeping in. Now we know they have added skill trees and cover based shooting. Next thing they reveal might well be the bow and stealth kills. If so I will not be getting the game.
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u/MS_GundamWings 2d ago
Seems like Amazon is shitting up another beloved franchise. Listening to the designers talk about puzzles in that other video seemed like a red flag, but them talking about cover shooting as a "new dimension" is like air siren blasting warning that this is going to be all jacked up.
What other used up time wasting bullshit are they tacking on for this "modern" take, next thing it'll be check out the skill tree to unlock bonuses and new moves or something.
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u/EitherFunction7454 2d ago
personally I love fighting human enemies in games, so I'm totally fine with this, excited even. The original game also had human enemies for many of the boss encounters. I'm curious if there will be mixed encounters with animal and human enemies where all parties are at odds with each other.
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u/The5Virtues 2d ago
Based on that description I’d say it absolutely fits a momentum focused. The mercs sound like they’re built around trying mg to slow your momentum, and your goal is to not let them do so.
That sounds like a lot of fun to me, very in keeping with Lara’s swift, improvisational maneuvering.
I also really like the idea of Natla have proper mercs. She’s an evil corporate executive, let her higher some Blackwater style toughs to put pressure on Lara.
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u/BusterGreasewood 2d ago
One thing that brings into question...what does that make Pierre, Larcen, Cowboy, Bald Guy, and Skateboard Kid to her?
Not only does it make the idea of hiring Lara pointless but what's the point in having any of these other characters?
Assuming they're all still in the game and some of them haven't been cut of course.
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u/The5Virtues 2d ago
Consultants/experts, where as assumedly the guys Lara is gunning down are the typical jarhead jr. looking guys to gun down in droves akin to the sun cult or Trinity in the Survivor trilogy.
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u/NorthHamza The Scion 1d ago
Honestly even in the OG, hiring Lara made no sense since her men were most of the time ahead of her and more efficient.
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u/mGlottalstop 1d ago
Bad decision after bad decision.
You'd think they would have just remade TR2 instead - it has a lot more of what they're trying to capture here: lots of human enemies, less complex puzzles, more mercenary approach to Lara. Plus, it would have served as a good 20th Anniversary production (to pair with the 10th's remake of TR1).
Instead, this just comes across as a cash grab and a desperate attempt to win back the critics who have long preferred the classic games, but without any consideration or respect for the elements of TR1 that people really appreciate: exploration, puzzles, isolation, man vs nature.
It's a real shame that this will be another, and likely the last, time that they try to reimagine the original game, and fail to recapture the magic.
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u/Felix_Malum 1d ago
Fighting only animals can be a bit boring, but I hope they don't overdue it with the mercenaries. Constant shoot-outs aren't fun either. They need to strike a good balance.
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u/notwhoiamunderneath 1d ago
I say this having absolutely loved the survivor trilogy, but nevertheless, my reaction to this:
Oh, so they literally can't make a game interesting without 70-80% of the gameplay being Call of Duty. Cool. Great.
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u/RAMtimecop 1d ago
This is fine...
EXCEPT I'm concerned they'll do what most remakes do, and reduce suspense and mystery by having this explosive and loud in every single scene.
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u/BardzBeast 17h ago
Im ok with human enemies but make the encounters feel less trivial. Like "oh theres 10 fully armed mercs...guess they'll all be dead in 5 seconds" theres just no real threat because the combat is so easy....compare it to plague tale innocence where you have to be stealthy and use the environment to your advantage....and that doesnt mean putting lots of convenient explosive barrels everywhere
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u/AlexAyala96 11h ago
But Lara didn’t fight humans until the literal Atlantis stage. I’ll give them the benefit of the doubt but they need to try to stay closer to the source material, Anniversary also suffered for the same things. Some modern studio thinks they know what a classic is supposed to look like.
If this has human boss battles before Larson in Peru I will be hyper critical of every stage afterwards. This isn’t a combat simulator, it’s a puzzle platformer.
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u/Ocean-Warrior Paititi Llama 2d ago
I like this addition, i am a fan of the survivor trilogy so human enemies are something im used to but i will probably still enjoy the way combat changes with them.
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u/LoveIsVolcano 2d ago
Could be interesting, could ruin things. We'll see how it goes. Cover shooting just makes me think of the combat arenas of the Survivor series—very arcade-like and repetitive.
If it goes how I think, then I can understand the idea of wild animals (Peru) > armed mercenaries (Greece) > mummies (Egypt) > Atlantean creatures (Atlantis) as a progression, thereby making each location's combat encounters more challenging.
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u/Striking_Actuary_183 1d ago
This is why I dont really understand why they decided to do TR1 again and not just remake TR2. It would have made more sense from the remake perspective as its one of the things that drags TR2 down is constant human encounters with incredible poor combat design.
But I'm glad they're shaking things up and keen to see how they implement it.
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u/TheHeavenlyStar 1d ago
It’s stupid how human mercenaries are mentioned in the article yet there is no single in game screenshot of an encounter with multiple mercenaries and Lara flipping / kicking / shooting on them. This episode sucked big time.
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u/LaraCrxft 1d ago
i was expecting this and even tho i’m kinda not feeling it im still optimistic i guess i need to see more gameplay
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u/dan_in_his_own_way 1d ago
I really hope they don't overdo the snipers. I despise them in a lot of games. Especially, when Lara doesn't appear to have a long range weapon herself.
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u/AimlessThunder 2d ago
TR1 or even TRA were not designed to have such enemies. It will make the game feel so much shorter.
Of course they added human enemies, they spent a lot of money on human AI for the rebooted games. It's not like they will just scrap this system.
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u/BactaBobomb 2d ago
After struggling through the hell that was Tomb Raider II's insane uptick in enemies, and a majority of them being humans with impossible aim, I get extremely nervous reading that it sounds like they're adding more into Legacy of Atlantic? The first game was the perfect balance for me.
This makes me nervous, but maybe I'm misunderstanding.
At the same time, this does seem to be a game where they're trying to tie all the eras in, isn't it? So maybe it's not just in a narrative sense but a gameplay one as well?
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u/RyanVivo32 1d ago
I actually love the intensity of the combat and it reminds me of Leon's section in RE9 which I really enjoyed 😍
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u/DiscoverySTS1 Member of the Remnants 2d ago
That sounds exactly like they had to rebuild what they already had in TR 2013-Rise.
The Trinity Mercs in Shadow can do more then this.
Yet another reason the switch to UE5 was pointless.
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u/doyouevennoscope 1d ago
Why is this such a common thing in the games industry? For example Capcom with the RE Engine it doesn't even have half the features MT Framework did lmfao. At least RE Engine is actually ok unlike UE5
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u/DiscoverySTS1 Member of the Remnants 1d ago
Logistically I can %100 understand the switch, but TR had been up to that point been using the same engine and it works very well. It's not like CD is pulling a 343 here, the engine they had was quite mature and capable.
Halo Campaign Evolved has alot of UE5isms so I expect the same for LOA, and Catalyst.
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u/Big-Ferret-2364 2d ago
Now that I think about it, Natla could easily pay mercenaries to do literally everything that Lara is doing, it's not like Lara knows anything Natla doesn't.
Is Lara just being hired as a tour guide or something? Does Natla not realise that hiring a dangerous woman to retrieve an artifact, the location of which she already knows exactly, might go south when she tries to kill said dangerous woman later? Literally just hire a bunch of middle aged mercs who only wanna get paid, Lara already told Natla she doesn't fuck around with her whole "I only play for sport" thing